PRS Talk 6.5CM in Tactical Division?

perdurabo

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What are the chances of 6.5 Creedmoor being added to tactical division anytime soon? If the goal of tactical was to limit the division to what police/mil shooters are using in the field, there's plenty of evidence out there that the 6.5CM is being used extensively in those roles.

For me, I simply don't want to compete with the gamer kids and their disposable barrel Gay Tiger space rifles in open division simply because I don't want to shoot a barrel burner 6mm or a .308.

Getting the .308 to perform well past 800 yards is tricky, even with heavy high BC 30 cal bullets, and the 6.5CM is the best compromise for a long range practical rifle. Given it's popularity in the market , I'd say it's high time we allow those of us with custom/non-production but still practical working 6.5CM rifles without all the gizmos to compete in a more suitable division, and I think tactical is the right place for it.
 
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DeathBeforeDismount

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Have you ever actually competed before? Based on what you are saying that is probably a no and why so many people are laughing.

6.5cm with high BC bullets is a significant advantage over .308 and .223, especially since TAC limits their bullet weights to 178 and 77 respectively. So even if you can find a higher BC bullet or wanted to run a hotrod .223 like 85.5 bergers, you can't.

Barrel life with a BRA, GT, Dasher ect is similar to a 6.5CM. Furthermore; barrel life is pretty much irrelevant, if you are shooting out barrels you are spending 10 times that amount in components, travel, fees, ect. Barrels are tires, do you bitch about having to replace your tires every 40k instead of 50K miles if your car gets 10mph better? Bullet and powder cost savings shooting a 6mm will make the cost comparable.

Some of the best shooters in the nation still compete with 6.5cm, but those numbers are going down. Give any of them top shooters a 6.5cm and they would probally finish in similar places. Its not the handicap you think it is, which is the point of TAC. The Top TAC shooter is lucky to score 75% the hits of the top open shooter.
 

perdurabo

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There are guys winning national matches with 6.5 creedmoors…its an open cartridge why put it in a seperate division? Just compete alongside everyone else. Its not the caliber keeping you from being competitive.
If it doesn't matter then why bother having any divisions at all? If divisions DO matter than there's ample evidence that the 6.5CM belongs in a separate category from barrel burner space rifles for the same reasons the .308 is.
 

DeathBeforeDismount

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If it doesn't matter then why bother having any divisions at all? If divisions DO matter than there's ample evidence that the 6.5CM belongs in a separate category from barrel burner space rifles for the same reasons the .308 is.
Except everything you said is false.

If you would read what people are telling you or actually go out and shoot a few comps, you would understand this.

Instead you keep making uninformed and uneducated statements.

Take a top 5 national shooter and have them switch to 6.5CM and they will still be a top 5 shooter. Give them a .308 or .223 and they will be lucky to finish in top 30 or 50.
 

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OP: nah, 6.5 Creedmoor/6.5mm in general is still pretty impressive and is generally far superior to the .308 in basically every way.

You could do what I do and just compete for skills testing/funsies, because winning a PRS match is far beyond my current skill level lol.

@DeathBeforeDismount: a Tac guy did secure 2nd place overall at the 2020 K&M PRS...qualifier?, using the fancy new 176 A-Tips. So it is possible for a Tac shooter to make the top 10, just not likely.
 

DeathBeforeDismount

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Yea buddy!

That was probally a 1 day match, not a national 2 day. Much bigger disparity on shooter quality.

If someone wanted to game 308, they could run the 160 solids like they do with .223 solids. $1.25+ bullet will get real expensive real fast.
 
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2muchcowbell

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Yea buddy!

That was probally a 1 day match, not a national 2 day. Much bigger disparity on shooter quality.

If someone wanted to game 308, they could run the 160 solids like they do with .223 solids. $1.25+ bullet will get real expensive real fast.

Lol yeah, you're probably right. I haven't used A-tips because they're so expensive compared to, say, Berger Hybrids.
 
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perdurabo

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OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.
 

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.
    look at a better bullet. 175 SMK’s were the gold standard for a long time but technology has changes. I’d encourage you to look strongly at the Berger 178 Hybrids or eve the Berger 175 OTM. Much better BC.
     

    2muchcowbell

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.

    Just compete in open division with your non-specialized rifle? 🤷‍♂️

    One possible alternative is to use something like the ACC system, where you can easily attach the "gaming" external weights on the rifle, while still keeping a good, functional chassis.
     

    Mechdesigner

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.
    Nobody is saying you cant show up to a PRS match with a practical rifle in 6.5 and not compete just switch to open and see how you do. I shot a factory bergara 6.5 that was 14 pounds last year and finished 34th in the region in open class and managed a few top 10 one day matches…all in my first year.
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.
    So you shoot in the retard division and since you aren't very good, you think you should be able to shoot a high performance caliber and still stay in retard division?

    The only people who really should be shooting TAC are legit LE/MIL who are using their work guns. That includes work ammo as well. Many are paid to go to matches as this is considered training for them. Its very valuable to them because this is their Job and lives are on the line. Everyone else is just trying to be a big fish in a small pond and get a participation trophy.

    This is why people are laughing at you. Its almost as bad as production class... almost.
     

    DerrtyMac

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    So yea, .308 175smk factory ammo shooter here…
    Then maybe you need to study up on the bullet data. And I’m not saying I’m a great shooter or top competitor, but I can hit 24”x 24” consistently at 1100 as long as I read wind and have my data updated. Before a match I will ask if I can use a Labradar or magno to get velocity average, plug into ballistic data whatever you have and send it.
    Now behind the scenes I buy bulk when I can and if same lot, true up my data at around 800-1000 depending on what range I can get on, see where it drops into transonic. Get a good feel for that lot during practice, with wind don’t forget the wind, and update velocity and environmentals the day of and have fun.
    6.5 steps you up ballistically, you still need to do the same thing with with knowing your data.
     

    Rob01

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    OP the 6.5 is not the same as the .308/.223 no matter how much you want it to be for your use. 6.5 Creedmoor is not a Tac division round. You need to figure what you want to shoot and shoot it. Doesn't sound like you are going to win a match so just go do your best and have fun. You want to shoot your .308 then shoot Tac and want to shoot your 6.5 Creedmoor then shoot open. Just pick one and go.

    Also you need to try different bullets in your .308. I use 168 ELD-Ms and can hit to 1250 yards without issue in matches when I shoot Tac.
     

    Adam B

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    So you shoot in the retard division and since you aren't very good, you think you should be able to shoot a high performance caliber and still stay in retard division?

    The only people who really should be shooting TAC are legit LE/MIL who are using their work guns. That includes work ammo as well. Many are paid to go to matches as this is considered training for them. Its very valuable to them because this is their Job and lives are on the line. Everyone else is just trying to be a big fish in a small pond and get a participation trophy.

    This is why people are laughing at you. Its almost as bad as production class... almost.
    This is gold!!! No cartridge is going help you win. Practice and shooting matches will.
     

    ma smith

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    Op, 6,5 cm is helped quite a bit with a brake and heavy rifle.. you can also shoot the same ballistics as a 6mm BR pretty easily (look at 130 berger vs 105 berger... 0.275 g7).

    The differences are more in recoil and shot spotting. You can tame a 6,5 with modern brake and pounds of weight. A good shooter will be running the same math, thou

    The bc on 77 gr .223 is like .190. Its not even in the same zip code at 1000 yds you are talking 3-4 mil wind vs 2 mils on the above [email protected]

    Now, an 85.5 or 88 class .223 loaded long....is much closer to being competitive, but those are not allowed in Tac as far as i understand the rules...so if you want to run 85.5 or 130 hybrids... its only fair to run open

    Keep in mind even the "pedestrian" 6,5 bullets like hornady 140 bthp Is g7 same as berger 130 / 105 hybrid (around 0.275-.285 g7).
     
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    1moaoff

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.
    Shoot what caliber a.d bullet you want. If you want to use a more practical or hunting rifle set up then build it and shoot it. You are asking separate questions.
     
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    Namekagon

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    I shoot the occasional match with a 6XC, but its a very practical rifle I built for long range coyote hunting. I’m pretty sure I’ve got the lightest rifle at the matches I attend, it’s similar to a Bergara HMR. I choose to use that equipment because the point of my match attendance is to test myself with equipment I might actually use in the field hunting.

    That doesn’t mean I’m not trying to win lol. Cause I do. What it does mean is that if I finish 30th out of 100, I look at the guns im competing with and am damn proud of that finish. If I top-10
    I’ve conquered the world. I focus on how many of the race guns I beat, not how many finished better than me.

    However if your goal is to win matches, that’s cool. Then you need equipment that can win matches. But if you are set on using a practical rig like I am, you just need to redefine your idea of success.
     

    Danrobberg

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    OP: nah, 6.5 Creedmoor/6.5mm in general is still pretty impressive and is generally far superior to the .308 in basically every way.

    You could do what I do and just compete for skills testing/funsies, because winning a PRS match is far beyond my current skill level lol.

    @DeathBeforeDismount: a Tac guy did secure 2nd place overall at the 2020 K&M PRS...qualifier?, using the fancy new 176 A-Tips. So it is possible for a Tac shooter to make the top 10, just not likely.
    That Tac shooter also cuts the grass there and shoots there on almost a daily basis. He might have more knowledge of that range than even Shannon. I’m not taking anything away from him. He’s an outstanding shooter and that was a hell of a performance but I don’t think any other tac shooter in the country was capable of pulling that off.

    Also that was a 2 day match with around 200 shooters and an absolutely stacked line up.
     
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    Feniks Technologies

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    OK, lets look at it this way: I've shot several local matches in TAC division with a .308 and am frustrated at shots longer than 800y. My 175 SMKs just aren't performing well past 800y or so. I do quite well on shots under 800ish though.

    I'm currently building a new custom rifle and want to chamber it in 6.5CM to give me that edge past 800y, plus as I already have the components for 6.5 bought back when prices were sane.

    I want to compete with a practical rifle, not a one trick pony match-winning-device with all kinds of gamer gizmos like barricade stops and joysticks, which makes me think I'll be happier staying in TAC division, but I can't do that with a 6.5CM.

    I get that the usual advice is "do whatever the top shooters are doing and shut up because winning matches is all that matters", but that doesn't appeal to me at all.

    So, go shoot NRL hunter matches. Or things like the Hide Cup.

    You won’t find what you’re asking for in PRS….which is essentially a division tailored to what you personally want while also giving you some sort of self perceived advantage.
     

    Yoteski

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    Ugh, so glad I don't shoot these matches anymore. PRS classes are all junk. Literally the laziest way you could separate shooters. It's mind boggling they've stayed around this long with the same old excuse that they are trying to introduce new shooters by having these classes. Was tac/production/whatever other classes they have represented at the AG cup? No, hmmm. How about last year's production champion, or not champion, or the 2nd best champion of production?
    PRS would do best to glom on to what they do best; barricade benchrest with fancy ass 6mm's. If they embraced what it actually is all this drama would go away. PRS says they're everything to everybody and fails miserably at most of it. Can you be competitive with a 6.5 creed. Maybe, but most likely not. It's just too much recoil for barricade benchrest for most shooters to compete against the rest of the field.
    NRL needs to embrace the Hunter series, PRS needs to embrace the heavy rifle 6mm series and let it sort itself out.
     

    Danrobberg

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    The guy wants to shot an open class caliber in tac division. Sorry dude it doesn’t work like that. This isn’t the production division where you can shoot a custom rifle or a prototype not available to anyone but you. Tac class has standards.

    Joking aside 6.5 creed is not a tac class caliber and in my opinion never will be. The entire class would just shoot it then. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it has been. There arnt even enough tac shooters to make enough noise to change it anyway. Out of 100 shooters you might have 3 or 4 shooting tac. There is nothing wrong with that division as it is. Now if you want to talk production class that’s a whole new topic and there are plenty of threads on what a joke that is.

    Don’t worry about what class you are shooting in. If you have the components and want to shoot 6.5 go do so and enjoy it. Maybe just focus on your overall standing and not in your class. The overall standing is listed in order of finish regardless of what class you were in.
     

    308pirate

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    If it doesn't matter then why bother having any divisions at all? If divisions DO matter than there's ample evidence that the 6.5CM belongs in a separate category from barrel burner space rifles for the same reasons the .308 is.

    This is what you're saying: I'm getting my ass kicked and I don't want to put in the time to be good. Make me a new playground where I can beat up on the little guys

    How lame can you be?
     

    beetroot

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    What is the reason for the tactical division and only being allowed 223/308?
    Is it to give a class for LEO to compete against each other? And these are the only cartridges LEOs use.
    Or is it a carryover from the F-TR world?

    If the intention of the class was to attract LEOs and the majority were using something other than 308/223 then there would be a case to add more cartridges to the tactical class.
     

    308pirate

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    What is the reason for the tactical division and only being allowed 223/308?

    The same reason why single action only pistols are not allowed in IPSC Production or Production Optics.

    Sometimes equipment differences are so significant that they do play some part in the results regardless of shooter skill.

    The "cops can show up with their work gun" angle is, I suspect, urban legend. If the division was meant to attract LEO/mil, then make being one a requirement to enter.
     

    Campguy308

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    I use 6.5creed for club and 1 day matches. Its also my hunting rifle. I shoot with the rest of the guys using heavy 6mm space guns. I refuse to change to a small 6mm because i feel the 6.5 is more practical for my real world non-gaming purposes. When i miss in a match, its not because of my caliber choice. I say shoot your 6.5 in open division and have fun.
     

    FUNCTIONAL

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    I get the idea of adding 6.5creed to tac based on departments and the supposed order for m110 uppers in 6.5creed. Even a good 308 bullet going the limit will still fair way worse in wind than a moderate 6.5 bc which would make the 308 and 223 completely pointless in tac. That's the downside. I enjoy shooting it for the skill involved and I use actual tac guns (not a comp build one) but even I think the division should be revamped to include weight limits and just turn into a "limited" class instead of tac or open. Make the rules strict enough to force the gun into one someone would actually take into the field but leave caliber open. I think you would get more participation and a more even spread of limited vs open shooters.

    Now if you think getting a 6.5 in there so you can beat the 308 guys... there is nothing stopping them from switching to 6.5 also. If you can't beat them with 308 vs 308 you certainly won't beat them with 6.5 vs 6.5.
     
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    beetroot

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    The same reason why single action only pistols are not allowed in IPSC Production or Production Optics.

    Sometimes equipment differences are so significant that they do play some part in the results regardless of shooter skill.

    The "cops can show up with their work gun" angle is, I suspect, urban legend. If the division was meant to attract LEO/mil, then make being one a requirement to enter.

    I get that 223/308 is at a significant disadvantage. What I'm struggling to see is what the intention of the class is.

    Production class (with all it's faults) is intended to allow people to be more competitive with an off the shelf rifle, so that newbies with a stock rifle have a class they can be competitive in.

    Open class is open class.

    Is tactical class aimed at LEOs/MIL or is it deemed that 308/223 deserves it own class so that folk will actually uses these cartridges?

    The OP may have a point if the class is intended for LEOs but they are being excluded due to their work rifle not being 308.
    I suspect you are right and the tactical class isn't aimed at LEOs and its just based on a historical view on what a tactical rifle is.
     
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    The same reason why single action only pistols are not allowed in IPSC Production or Production Optics.

    Sometimes equipment differences are so significant that they do play some part in the results regardless of shooter skill.

    The "cops can show up with their work gun" angle is, I suspect, urban legend. If the division was meant to attract LEO/mil, then make being one a requirement to enter.

    At the time of its inception, it was (at least supposedly) geared towards working rifles but allowed others to partake.

    But as with most things when competition is involved, it veered away almost immediately.
     

    perdurabo

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    I use 6.5creed for club and 1 day matches. Its also my hunting rifle. I shoot with the rest of the guys using heavy 6mm space guns. I refuse to change to a small 6mm because i feel the 6.5 is more practical for my real world non-gaming purposes. When i miss in a match, its not because of my caliber choice. I say shoot your 6.5 in open division and have fun.

    This is the actual reason for my question, and I'm kinda pissed at the assholes in this thread who assume I'm just whining that I can't be allowed to game TAC division. If I had the ability, I'd just delete this thread.

    I'm building a new rifle and I refuse to build a wholly impractical "barricade benchrest" 6mm space rifle. I was hoping that there was a chance I could stay in TAC based on the fact that 6.5CM is being widely adopted by LE/MIL. If I can't, so be it. I'll probably compete for awhile longer with the new gun in open class and see if it's possible to still have fun despite it not being possible to win matches or even improve my relative standing with pure marksmanship without resorting to gamesmanship and gear racing.

    Maybe NRL Hunter is more my game but that has very limited popularity here in Texas.
     

    Campguy308

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    This is the actual reason for my question, and I'm kinda pissed at the assholes in this thread who assume I'm just whining that I can't be allowed to game TAC division. If I had the ability, I'd just delete this thread.

    I'm building a new rifle and I refuse to build a wholly impractical "barricade benchrest" 6mm space rifle. I was hoping that there was a chance I could stay in TAC based on the fact that 6.5CM is being widely adopted by LE/MIL. If I can't, so be it. I'll probably compete for awhile longer with the new gun in open class and see if it's possible to still have fun despite it not being possible to win matches or even improve my relative standing with pure marksmanship without resorting to gamesmanship and gear racing.

    Maybe NRL Hunter is more my game but that has very limited popularity here in Texas.
    My goal is to be a good shooter and practical rifleman. I also enjoy shooting a few low-key matches a year for fun (in Texas also). I am not a major PRS competitor and dont really want to be. I dont feel the 6.5 is holding me back at matches at all. Again, build your 6.5 and have fun, who cares about divisions.

    ETA: im not "mad" at PRS, but i dont really love it either. There's a lot that turns me off about it. Some of the people that I see at matches are stuck up dicks, seeing people use pre-deployed tripods as a rear support on stages, massively heavy impractical rifles, etc. But its a sport, and that's what happens over time in competitive sports. That's why i have a harder time taking it seriously these days. But to each his own.
     
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    Niles Coyote

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    This is the actual reason for my question, and I'm kinda pissed at the assholes in this thread who assume I'm just whining that I can't be allowed to game TAC division. If I had the ability, I'd just delete this thread.

    I'm building a new rifle and I refuse to build a wholly impractical "barricade benchrest" 6mm space rifle. I was hoping that there was a chance I could stay in TAC based on the fact that 6.5CM is being widely adopted by LE/MIL. If I can't, so be it. I'll probably compete for awhile longer with the new gun in open class and see if it's possible to still have fun despite it not being possible to win matches or even improve my relative standing with pure marksmanship without resorting to gamesmanship and gear racing.

    Maybe NRL Hunter is more my game but that has very limited popularity here in Texas.
    Why not use an action that allows quick and easy barrel swaps and pick up a second barrel...
     

    beetroot

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    This is the actual reason for my question, and I'm kinda pissed at the assholes in this thread who assume I'm just whining that I can't be allowed to game TAC division. If I had the ability, I'd just delete this thread.

    I'm building a new rifle and I refuse to build a wholly impractical "barricade benchrest" 6mm space rifle. I was hoping that there was a chance I could stay in TAC based on the fact that 6.5CM is being widely adopted by LE/MIL. If I can't, so be it. I'll probably compete for awhile longer with the new gun in open class and see if it's possible to still have fun despite it not being possible to win matches or even improve my relative standing with pure marksmanship without resorting to gamesmanship and gear racing.

    Maybe NRL Hunter is more my game but that has very limited popularity here in Texas.
    The issue with what you are proposing is why stop with 6.5CM? If you allow that then why not 260, or 7mm08.
    What about 25CM? Or is that too wizbang for a tactical rifle.

    It seems like what you are wanting is what NRL hunter is meant to fulfill, or maybe look for more field matches than PRS matches.
     

    Rob01

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    I get that 223/308 is at a significant disadvantage. What I'm struggling to see is what the intention of the class is.

    Production class (with all it's faults) is intended to allow people to be more competitive with an off the shelf rifle, so that newbies with a stock rifle have a class they can be competitive in.

    Open class is open class.

    Is tactical class aimed at LEOs/MIL or is it deemed that 308/223 deserves it own class so that folk will actually uses these cartridges?

    The OP may have a point if the class is intended for LEOs but they are being excluded due to their work rifle not being 308.
    I suspect you are right and the tactical class isn't aimed at LEOs and its just based on a historical view on what a tactical rifle is.

    It was kind of geared that way at first but you have to remember that a lot of us that had been shooting matches before the "PRS" was a thing still had .308s and liked shooting them in matches also so you do have others other than LE/MIL who like to shoot .308/.223 and to keep it more on a level playing field they have that division. At one time 300WM used to be in there too. So yup I think it is geared more towards the original "tactical rifle" view. Unlike Production, Tac actually does make it more challenging between recoil and ballistics especially with the .308.
     

    Diver160651

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    It was kind of geared that way at first but you have to remember that a lot of us that had been shooting matches before the "PRS" was a thing still had .308s and liked shooting them in matches also so you do have others other than LE/MIL who like to shoot .308/.223 and to keep it more on a level playing field they have that division. At one time 300WM used to be in there too. So yup I think it is geared more towards the original "tactical rifle" view. Unlike Production, Tac actually does make it more challenging between recoil and ballistics especially with the .308.
    Not only this ^

    OP - I often spun on a 6.5 barrel running 123 Lapuas running 3025, the recoil is a hair more than my 6mm running 109s, but damn not much especially in a heavy rifle. The BCs are better than some 6mms and the speed is good. The performance between them is splitting hairs, and better than some guys with 6brs.

    These 123s have a better BC than the person running a much heavier 175grn 308 at 2650- it is a night and day advantage. I've placed at the top on plenty of one days with the 6.5 ~ When I suck it is me, not the 6.5 vs the 6mm. Granted we shoot in the West where it tends to be windy.

    BTW I've almost stopped shooting matches since COVID for a couple of life reasons, selling and buying homes, business acquisition, and spending what little free time I have on archery and rifle hunting. I've gone back and shot with the same guys I always have with my 6mm spun on occasionally through this time. The "time" is sound and I find I've left a lot of targets non-engaged, my scores probably solidly mid-pack, my nerves high, no longer a real contender. The point is, it is NOT the 6mm that makes one competitive, it is time on the rile and developing a smooth solid process; being smooth means being faster, being smooth and fast gives you more time to break each shot.

    BTW do to an eye issue I switched to lefthand 10 years ago or so but continued to shoot right-handed because I was so invested in right-hand actions and I have a son who I wanted to have access to my toys. In PRS than a huge disadvantage because you have to let go of the rifle after every shot to run the bolt, so it's just slower, much slower 2-3 seconds a shot. Think about that, after the first shot and over the 9 follow-up shots, that almost a 30% time penalty on a 90-second stage. This was a far bigger disadvantage than any caliber. The point here is that I didn't seek to switch, I worked on myself, had a shit ton of fun along the way.

    I hope you see the point of this story. Go shoot with your 6.5, get better, have fun and maybe place at the top if you work on yourself enough.
     
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    jinxx4ever

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  • Sep 26, 2013
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    This is the actual reason for my question, and I'm kinda pissed at the assholes in this thread who assume I'm just whining that I can't be allowed to game TAC division. If I had the ability, I'd just delete this thread.

    I'm building a new rifle and I refuse to build a wholly impractical "barricade benchrest" 6mm space rifle. I was hoping that there was a chance I could stay in TAC based on the fact that 6.5CM is being widely adopted by LE/MIL. If I can't, so be it. I'll probably compete for awhile longer with the new gun in open class and see if it's possible to still have fun despite it not being possible to win matches or even improve my relative standing with pure marksmanship without resorting to gamesmanship and gear racing.

    Maybe NRL Hunter is more my game but that has very limited popularity here in Texas.
    NRL Hunter is growing and you have to realize last year was it's first year, and the popgun 6mm's aren't allowed
     
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    Tx_Aggie

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    I think the OP realizes how much of an advantage the 6.5 Creedmoor is over a 308, as that's why he wants to upgrade to one.

    His issue seems to be that he's hung up on a combination of realizing he likely won't be able to win in open, even shooting a competitive caliber, and a hatred of chassis, heavy rifles, etc.

    That is, he doesn't want to shoot a modern comp oriented precision rifle, and he doesn't want to have to compete against guys who choose to shoot one.

    But he still wants to be able to win matches shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor.

    My first suggestion to him would be to stop worrying so much what everyone else does, including how they place relative to you, and just go shoot. Work on improving your shooting relative to your own past performance.

    If that doesn't work, go find an NRL Hunter match. Or find some land and host one yourself.

    Or maybe try to talk your local club series into trying out a "practical rifle division" or "hunter division" for fun, something like the NRL Hunter heavy division, with a weight limit and minimum power factor. You wouldn't get PRS points, but you might be able to score some bragging rights.

    Or you might be surprised to find some of the same guys winning with a heavy 6mm BR are also pretty good with a 16lb 6.5.

    Either way, you're not going to find many receptive to killing the spirit of Tactical class by adding 6.5 Creed to it.
     

    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    What I'm struggling to see is what the intention of the class is.

    Intent is subjective and it doesn't matter. Here's the verbatim text describing PRS Tactical Division

    2.2 Bolt Gun - Tactical Division
    2.2.1 Tactical Division rifles are restricted to .308 Winchester and 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington calibers only.
    2.2.2 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington has a bullet weight cap of 77 grains and muzzle velocity cannot exceed 3,000 fps (+/- 30 fps for environmental factors and equipment discrepancies).
    2.2.3 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester has a bullet weight cap of 178 grains and muzzle velocity cannot exceed 2,800 fps (+/- 28 fps for environmental factors and equipment discrepancies).
    2.2.4 No modified wildcat rounds such as the .223 Ackley Improved are permitted to shoot in the Tactical Division. Anyone discovered violating this rule will receive an automatic Match DQ.
    2.2.5 Tactical Division shooters will shoot the exact same COF as Open Division

    Absolutely no mention of police, military or anything of the sort
     
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    DeathBeforeDismount

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    Why not use an action that allows quick and easy barrel swaps and pick up a second barrel...
    This makes too much sense. The difference between a tactical bolt gun and a "race gun" comes down to weight. I can screw on a 16" 308 barrel and take the weights off my TCS in about 10 minutes. My 22 lb gun is now 15lbs or so, lighter than a comparable AI with ZCO/Spuhr/Arca.

    I use the same action for NRL hunter and PRS/NRL Open. Swap barrel to 6.5cm to meet power factor. Swap into a Manners LRH from a TCS to drop weight. Add tripple pull Ckye pod for hunter and right at 16 lbs. Same action, same trigger, same mount, same scope, same rmr.
     

    DeathBeforeDismount

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    I think the OP realizes how much of an advantage the 6.5 Creedmoor is over a 308, as that's why he wants to upgrade to one.

    His issue seems to be that he's hung up on a combination of realizing he likely won't be able to win in open, even shooting a competitive caliber, and a hatred of chassis, heavy rifles, etc.

    That is, he doesn't want to shoot a modern comp oriented precision rifle, and he doesn't want to have to compete against guys who choose to shoot one.

    But he still wants to be able to win matches shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor.

    My first suggestion to him would be to stop worrying so much what everyone else does, including how they place relative to you, and just go shoot. Work on improving your shooting relative to your own past performance.

    If that doesn't work, go find an NRL Hunter match. Or find some land and host one yourself.

    Or maybe try to talk your local club series into trying out a "practical rifle division" or "hunter division" for fun, something like the NRL Hunter heavy division, with a weight limit and minimum power factor. You wouldn't get PRS points, but you might be able to score some bragging rights.

    Or you might be surprised to find some of the same guys winning with a heavy 6mm BR are also pretty good with a 16lb 6.5.

    Either way, you're not going to find many receptive to killing the spirit of Tactical class by adding 6.5 Creed to it.
    If you look at who is winning NRL hunter and who is winning NRL/PRS Bolt gun matches.

    Its the same people.

    You are 100% correct. People thinking they can buy a new caliber and fix their poor shooting abilities is laughable. The top shooters are going to win no matter what division or game they shoot for the same reason they are the top shooters. They work harder than everyone else. You can't buy that.