Yeah with a hit percentage equivalent to the 69 shots it took to hit the most recent 4200y or whatever ELR 'record'
- Thread starter TheDude219
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To be clear, I’m not making fun of that kid at all. Hitting a 24” plate at 1,000 at his age actually is great. Also, good on his father for providing the opportunity and getting him out there so early.
But that kind of accuracy means you aren’t ready for hunting at those ranges
But that kind of accuracy means you aren’t ready for hunting at those ranges
Alot of routine shots in compeititon or on a square range are ALOT harder in open terrain on cold bore.
Brian Litz and applied ballistics did "the math" for the .mil, IIRC the max 90% probable cold-bore shot was calculated ± 800M/900yd. This was using 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua, and heavy for caliber bullets.
Taking cold bore shots out west beyond 1,000 yards in the mountains is not a 100% shot by any stretch (if you believe the math).
YMMV.
Brian Litz and applied ballistics did "the math" for the .mil, IIRC the max 90% probable cold-bore shot was calculated ± 800M/900yd. This was using 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua, and heavy for caliber bullets.
Taking cold bore shots out west beyond 1,000 yards in the mountains is not a 100% shot by any stretch (if you believe the math).
YMMV.
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I don't necessarily believe XXXX # energy is the requirement, it's the velocity window the bullets perform in. Most long range high bc bullets operate well down to 1700fps. 1800fps impact velocity is where I draw the line. I've witnessed a few elk killed with a 6cm, one was 108eldm factory ammo, the other 108 Berger at a spicy 3080fps. These shots were 530-620y. The results were the same as my 338 rum pushing a 300gr Berger at 2810fps, dead elk within 30' of bullet impact. Humans been killing elk with stick/string for 1k years, this isn't difficult, it a hole in the vitals with a bullet in it's expansion velocity range. Be quick to make a follow up shot if necessary. Elk that are in a non alert calm state, often dont bolt upon bullet impact. In the 20+ elk kills I've witnessed, most them are shocked and don't move on their feet much in the next 4-5 seconds, some even longer, some have stood in the same place for 30 seconds with blood pouring out their side before they tipped over. These animals are not Kevlar plated, they're just big ass dear with thicker hides, bigger bones. They'll die the same exact way as a whitetail. Sometimes slower, and I've saw em die a lot faster too.
6.8 W is likely to become the next dodo bird.
Forget about measures of bullet energy. Worry instead about your personal marksmanship ability and your rifle’s mechanical accuracy. If you can maximize both and know your personal limits, the majority of calibers out there can bring down an elk. The only numbers you should really pay attention to are your bullet’s published minimum velocity threshold.
If your chosen bullet maintains adequate velocity to 1200 yds and you know that you can consistently put a bullet within the kill zone at that range, then it’s an ethical shot.
On the other hand, If you know you don’t have the ability to put a bullet in the kill zone past 400 yards, then that’s your max range.
There is no one size fits all here. Practice pays dividends over a chosen caliber. Any of the calibers mentioned in this thread will bring down an elk. The hard part is up to the hunter.
I’ve seen guys kill elk with 243’s and other guys wound elk with 300 Weatherby’s. The larger the caliber means a slightly lower margin of error. That doesn’t mean squat when you can’t consistently make hits. People will usually shoot the smaller caliber more accurately due to being able to practice more with it. As such, I think a lot of hunters would actually be better served using smaller and lower recoil cartridges.
If your chosen bullet maintains adequate velocity to 1200 yds and you know that you can consistently put a bullet within the kill zone at that range, then it’s an ethical shot.
On the other hand, If you know you don’t have the ability to put a bullet in the kill zone past 400 yards, then that’s your max range.
There is no one size fits all here. Practice pays dividends over a chosen caliber. Any of the calibers mentioned in this thread will bring down an elk. The hard part is up to the hunter.
I’ve seen guys kill elk with 243’s and other guys wound elk with 300 Weatherby’s. The larger the caliber means a slightly lower margin of error. That doesn’t mean squat when you can’t consistently make hits. People will usually shoot the smaller caliber more accurately due to being able to practice more with it. As such, I think a lot of hunters would actually be better served using smaller and lower recoil cartridges.
I agree w/ almost everything you said... but I'll take my turn at being a pedant & firmly maintain that energy is important & shouldn't be disregarded, particularly in long range hunting.
It goes without saying that 115gr 6mm @ 1500fps is not equivalent to a 180gr 7mm @ 1500 fps. There is a difference on shots that enter through the shoulder joint or humerus of a large game animal.
To add useful info, I think Berger recommends 1,800fps for their bullets - All Berger Hunting VLDs perform effectively at 1,800 fps impact velocity or faster Calling @Eric Stecker EG
eta - I think we're all on the same page & I'm beating a dead horse. Happy to continue any off-topic discussion in DMs
It goes without saying that 115gr 6mm @ 1500fps is not equivalent to a 180gr 7mm @ 1500 fps. There is a difference on shots that enter through the shoulder joint or humerus of a large game animal.
To add useful info, I think Berger recommends 1,800fps for their bullets - All Berger Hunting VLDs perform effectively at 1,800 fps impact velocity or faster Calling @Eric Stecker EG
eta - I think we're all on the same page & I'm beating a dead horse. Happy to continue any off-topic discussion in DMs
7 prc is a retarded low iq round. It doesn't take advantage of a long action so you are cucking yourself. If you don't reload it does nothing a 7mag that's been around forever already does. If you reload, there are way better and more efficient cartridges. You can argue then have more modern twist rates and Freebore but you can order a 7mag, 7-300 mag 7 sherm, 7-300prc or 7-300 norma barrel with same specs if you want to reload.
It should have been 6.5prc necked up to 7mm, but hornady is ran by fucking morons so it's par for the course.
It should have been 6.5prc necked up to 7mm, but hornady is ran by fucking morons so it's par for the course.
Finally, we have an answer, 200 to 400 yards just in case the person is not that good a shot. 300 yards is my personal limit. That being the case, we don't really need high speed bullets with flat trajectories. A .308 should take of everything and leave these other rounds to target practice.
Being a pedant ain't easy.
Being a pedant ain't easy.
.308 is a definitely great cartridge for that range
If you're able, go shoot an NRL Hunter One event. You'll have a ton of fun & you're almost guaranteed to surprise yourself and increase your confidence.
I have 4 rifles in .308 and love that round. Probably one of them I could set up for long range targets. It has a medium bull barrel and shoots quite well for me. I like the composite stock it is in but I might be tempted to put it in a chassis that I could add weight on if I were going the long range targets. And still, all that depends on having some long range places to go to. There is one about 100 miles from me that goes to a mile. I just haven't made the trip. And also, improving on my shooting fundamentals. Out at that long range, you need to qualify for a few shots at some longer distances before you go for the really long distances. Totally fair, I think. They don't need some pedant shooting other people's targets.
.308 is my favorite cartridge. Easy to load for, versatile, but also still requires effort from the shooter at long range.
If you end up looking into NRL Hunter, you won't want too heavy a rifle... The maximum total weight is 16 lbs (rifle, bipod, optics, etc. but without ammo/magazine). 16 lbs sounds like a lot, but it's really not if you're running large glass and a medium profile steel barrel.
What region of TX?
If you end up looking into NRL Hunter, you won't want too heavy a rifle... The maximum total weight is 16 lbs (rifle, bipod, optics, etc. but without ammo/magazine). 16 lbs sounds like a lot, but it's really not if you're running large glass and a medium profile steel barrel.
What region of TX?
If you are talking to me, north Texas in Kaufman County southeast of Dallas.
North East Texas Tactical
North East Texas Tactical offers a 1 mile range with steel targets for long range shooting enthusiasts. This is the only shooting range in DFW that goes 1 mile
northeasttexastactical.com That is the place I want to go as I get better at longer shots. Don't want to waste a trip or anyone's time.
There is another place in Cresson, south and west of Fort Worth but they are reservation only.
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It's normal for a long range facility to require some form of de minimis qualification before letting you loose @ 1,000 yards.
NETX Tac is probably the closest long range facility near you.
Triple C in Cresson was shut down.
Fossil Pointe near Decatur - I believe they hold routine/monthly matches?
fossilpointe.net
CCC near College Station - a little further for you, but last I checked, they hold monthly PRS-style matches (PRS is not a good intro into 600-1000 yard shooting)
NETX Tac is probably the closest long range facility near you.
Triple C in Cresson was shut down.
Fossil Pointe near Decatur - I believe they hold routine/monthly matches?
DFW’S Best Gun And Shooting Range | Fossil Pointe
Our 5-star Gun Range is open to the public & offers Sporting Clays, Rifle, Pistol & Long Range Rifle Shooting, Private Lessons, Corporate & Private Events
fossilpointe.net CCC near College Station - a little further for you, but last I checked, they hold monthly PRS-style matches (PRS is not a good intro into 600-1000 yard shooting)
Thanks. I am a few towns away from Oklahoma and Decatur would be approximately the same distance. I did not know Triple C was shut down. Last I checked, they offered access only by reservation. Anyway, whichever one I can get to, yeah, I have no problem qualifying before the longer ranges. Makes sense to me.It's normal for a long range facility to require some form of de minimis qualification before letting you loose @ 1,000 yards.
NETX Tac is probably the closest long range facility near you.
Triple C in Cresson was shut down.
Fossil Pointe near Decatur - I believe they hold routine/monthly matches?
DFW’S Best Gun And Shooting Range | Fossil Pointe
Our 5-star Gun Range is open to the public & offers Sporting Clays, Rifle, Pistol & Long Range Rifle Shooting, Private Lessons, Corporate & Private Events
CCC near College Station - a little further for you, but last I checked, they hold monthly PRS-style matches (PRS is not a good intro into 600-1000 yard shooting)
Another +1 for 6.5 PRC, no question. Get a 6.5 PRC with an Impact 737 and you'll never have to look back with misgivings at what could have been. 6.8 Western is a neat cartridge, but 6.5 PRC isn't going anywhere and it will kill anything in America at 700 yards.
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