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**6 Creedmoor**

**6 Creedmoor**

It's not about loosing accuracy with the powder temp so much as it is loosening/gaining speed. If you have a 50-80 fps shift then your are going to be missing targets at distance.
 
Just wanted to post a little love for the 6 Creed. I'm shooting a 22" GAP-10 with the 105 Hybrids (pointed) over 41.3gr of H4350, seated at 2.800". It's a real-life dope confirmed at 3060fps, with 6.9mils to 1000 yards. That load is so accurate I made a first round, dead center hit yesterday on the 1000 yard plate. Very happy with this round, and am already planning for re-barreling with GAP again once this barrel is burned up. I've got about 1500 more rounds to go, but I think I'll hit that by November.
 
varmint slayer said:
It's not about loosing accuracy with the powder temp so much as it is loosening/gaining speed. If you have a 50-80 fps shift then your are going to be missing targets at distance.
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Ah critical point, thank you! That make a world of difference. A dope issue is much easier to live with. I am learning, as you can see.
 
Your correct, but with velocity reductions or increase, don't you agree your impacts change??? I don't think you understand. That will effect his groups. I'm not talking about how big his groups are, but how much they move around. If he writes down the temp/weather and takes note of his groups from that day, he will be able to tell how much shift is going on at the end of the year. It ain't rocket science my friend. "We have a failure to communicate."
varmint slayer said:
It's not about loosing accuracy with the powder temp so much as it is loosening/gaining speed. If you have a 50-80 fps shift then your are going to be missing targets at distance.
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Seasonal change, based on weather/temp and how his brand of powder is effected by such...
BullyDog said:
Your correct, but with velocity reductions or increase, don't you agree your impacts change??? I don't think you understand. That will effect his groups. I'm not talking about how big his groups are, but how much they move around. If he writes down the temp/weather and takes note of his groups from that day, he will be able to tell how much shift is going on at the end of the year. It ain't rocket science my friend. "We have a failure to communicate."
Click to expand...
 
BullyDog said:
Your correct, but with velocity reductions or increase, don't you agree your impacts change??? I don't think you understand. That will effect his groups. I'm not talking about how big his groups are, but how much they move around. If he writes down the temp/weather and takes note of his groups from that day, he will be able to tell how much shift is going on at the end of the year. It ain't rocket science my friend. "We have a failure to communicate."
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Yes I agree the POI will be affected. That's what I said lol. Colder temps will give him slower velocity and hotter temps faster. Group size won't always open up depending on where the load is in relation to an accuracy node. Unless you are shooting F class or something similar and pending the caliber and target size, you may not even have to make an adjustment to hit a target past 600-700 yards. I think we are talking about the same thing but just different degree of documentation.
 
varmint slayer said:
Yes I agree the POI will be affected. That's what I said lol. Colder temps will give him slower velocity and hotter temps faster. Group size won't always open up depending on where the load is in relation to an accuracy node. Unless you are shooting F class or something similar and pending the caliber and target size, you may not even have to make an adjustment to hit a target past 600-700 yards. I think we are talking about the same thing but just different degree of documentation.
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Got it, "in relation to an accuracy node" is key to picking as stable a load as possible. Basic stuff to experienced loaders but a new process with new tools and toys for me. Thx
 
I notice less change in velocity with H100v than I see with h4350. It's probably about 30fps difference going from 20* weather to 95+ weather with h4350 and around 15 fps with the h100v. I found it odd since the h100v is not in hodgens extreme powder lineup. The h100v also meters like water!

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And DA can change the dope from day to day or even minute to minute even with the same velocity so that's also something that needs to be written down in your notes . it helps when you can feel a shift and adjust for it just like I will hold low in the afternoon when I would hold dead center in the morning... It's a pattern that seems to always work.

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" A O K", we have just different ways of saying it. LOL, my bad....But I really would like to see a comparison of H4350 vs. IMR4350 by a non-bias party. That's the kind of information I feel we all signed up here for. Its just funny, because I never heard of the Extreme line of powders being so spoke of until I started reading material involving a select click of people. I grew up reading Shooting Times Magazine and other authoritative publishings and never one time did someone write about any significant effect from using Extreme line powders. I still have old copies from back 20yr. ago when magazines actually published real world test results from guys considered legends these days. I would just like a place to find knowledge now that's not effected by the "money god."
varmint slayer said:
Yes I agree the POI will be affected. That's what I said lol. Colder temps will give him slower velocity and hotter temps faster. Group size won't always open up depending on where the load is in relation to an accuracy node. Unless you are shooting F class or something similar and pending the caliber and target size, you may not even have to make an adjustment to hit a target past 600-700 yards. I think we are talking about the same thing but just different degree of documentation.
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Good to know. Thanks!!
Irokcrawl said:
I notice less change in velocity with H100v than I see with h4350. It's probably about 30fps difference going from 20* weather to 95+ weather with h4350 and around 15 fps with the h100v. I found it odd since the h100v is not in hodgens extreme powder lineup. The h100v also meters like water!

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Click to expand...
 
The thing is here fellows is living here in the "Deep South" we have the perfect environment to test weather a powder is sensitive or not, considering I're temperature changes and all this damn humidity. Powder companies should give us some powder for real world testing and let us burn I're barrels up doing so. Hell, I'll buy a new one and keep testing. Or, we could just find out by driving over to Fort Benning and asking the AMU gun smiths. I could get one to write out his findings and post it on up, to aid in choices.
Irokcrawl said:
I notice less change in velocity with H100v than I see with h4350. It's probably about 30fps difference going from 20* weather to 95+ weather with h4350 and around 15 fps with the h100v. I found it odd since the h100v is not in hodgens extreme powder lineup. The h100v also meters like water!

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Click to expand...
 
I would like to know so I don't feel so handicapped by not being able to find certain powders that all the top guys are "supposedly" shooting. Heck, someone needs to hold a match were everyone has to be issued the same ammo, no madder what it may be, and let all the shooters shoot. That will weed out the "component brown nosers" or the ones shooting 50fps over the speed limit, " that know one will chronograph." I bet some guys actually are real good shooters that just don't have excess to the best components! I'm always for the "little man." I like to see people climb that ladder. It makes me happy for them and I smile.
 
BullyDog said:
I would like to know so I don't feel so handicapped by not being able to find certain powders that all the top guys are "supposedly" shooting. Heck, someone needs to hold a match were everyone has to be issued the same ammo, no madder what it may be, and let all the shooters shoot. That will weed out the "component brown nosers" or the ones shooting 50fps over the speed limit, " that know one will chronograph." I bet some guys actually are real good shooters that just don't have excess to the best components! I'm always for the "little man." I like to see people climb that ladder. It makes me happy for them and I smile.
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Jesus you are a fucking idiot.
 
I've walked into more than one match with loads or a barrel that wasn't what I would say the best and I damn sure don't think the rest of the group needs to shoot with the same jacked up setup as me. If you need a certain powder you can find it if you look hard enough. It may be a few bucks more than what you want to spend

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I wasn't talking about it that way my Brother, I was talking about it like Nascar racing. They have restrictor plates and limits on fuel don't they? Well, I just thought it would be a concept, "a conversational piece."
Irokcrawl said:
I've walked into more than one match with loads or a barrel that wasn't what I would say the best and I damn sure don't think the rest of the group needs to shoot with the same jacked up setup as me. If you need a certain powder you can find it if you look hard enough. It may be a few bucks more than what you want to spend

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Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Have you ever wondered how they would shoot if they did shoot your jacked up set up??? How they may place against you???
Irokcrawl said:
I've walked into more than one match with loads or a barrel that wasn't what I would say the best and I damn sure don't think the rest of the group needs to shoot with the same jacked up setup as me. If you need a certain powder you can find it if you look hard enough. It may be a few bucks more than what you want to spend

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Click to expand...
 
Come on, give me an honest opinion without having to talk private. I'm sure you will be at the Hard Rock match and if anyone has a problem with how you feel on here that maybe local, then I'm sure they can discuss it at that match. It isn't but 1hr and 45min. from Atl.
BullyDog said:
Have you ever wondered how they would shoot if they did shoot your jacked up set up??? How they may place against you???
Click to expand...
 
BullyDog said:
Have you ever wondered how they would shoot if they did shoot your jacked up set up??? How they may place against you???
Click to expand...

Honestly I'd probably place roughly the same if it were my guess. I'm not that great of a shooter so honestly that barrel that would only shot a best of 3.5" at 100 the day before the match at K&M may have helped me.. Do I think it did? Hell no but there is always a possibility I suppose :)

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BullyDog said:
Come on, give me an honest opinion without having to talk private. I'm sure you will be at the Hard Rock match and if anyone has a problem with how you feel on here that maybe local, then I'm sure they can discuss it at that match. It isn't but 1hr and 45min. from Atl.
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You are on some serious meds aren't you.
 
While this is kinda off subject I'll add this. You have to be prepared to get lucky... But if you were prepared was it luck?


R
 
I've shot H4350 in temps here in Montana from 40 below zero in January, to 110F this time of year with hardly any change in muzzle velocity. It's what I'll stay with until something better comes along....
 
I think that stuff varies from batch to batch. I had less change in velocity with H100v and my temp swings were not as much as yours. Mine was 15*-95*. About 80fps increase in the summer months with a barrel that was actually bleeding some velocity off with H100v. I just committed to buy a gap10 in 6mm Creedmoor and can't wait to see how it does. Something about a 105gn bullet running at 3150fps that just makes me smile, faster if it's not in a match :)

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Just wanted to post what my 6 creed barrel is up to

Just ran over 2200 rounds on my 3rd 6 creed barrel. Benchmark barrel
Put a brand new barrel on for the utah match(silencerco Quiet Riot)

I went to the match with about 50 rounds down the barrel. Noticing about 10-20 FPS barrel speed up for the first 50 rounds.

I am running 42.1 grain H4350. 105 Grain Hybrid
23.5 inch Barrel, Supressed
I sighted everything in, and I chronoed my load and it read 3085 average.

Put my dope in for my match. and it was on pretty much all weekend. It was shooting a little high, about .2MIL

Not sure why, I just had to take .2 MIL off all my dope. Even at 100 yards.

It was a hammer all weekend. Super accurate. Happy with the 6 creed right now!!
 
jcvibby said:
Just wanted to post what my 6 creed barrel is up to

Just ran over 2200 rounds on my 3rd 6 creed barrel. Benchmark barrel
Put a brand new barrel on for the utah match(silencerco Quiet Riot)

I went to the match with about 50 rounds down the barrel. Noticing about 10-20 FPS barrel speed up for the first 50 rounds.

I am running 42.1 grain H4350. 105 Grain Hybrid
23.5 inch Barrel, Supressed
I sighted everything in, and I chronoed my load and it read 3085 average.

Put my dope in for my match. and it was on pretty much all weekend. It was shooting a little high, about .2MIL

Not sure why, I just had to take .2 MIL off all my dope. Even at 100 yards.

It was a hammer all weekend. Super accurate. Happy with the 6 creed right now!!
Click to expand...

DA change? I had it change during a shooting session which dropped 6 tenths off at 1k off my normal dope! That's a good bit. Basically dropped it to 6.1mils to 1k vs 6.7mils. I always check the DA befor I head up to shoot a stage.



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Yep, I've noticed you really like that H100v.. You done got me thinking about buying some for a 6.5Lapua load!
Irokcrawl said:
I think that stuff varies from batch to batch. I had less change in velocity with H100v and my temp swings were not as much as yours. Mine was 15*-95*. About 80fps increase in the summer months with a barrel that was actually bleeding some velocity off with H100v. I just committed to buy a gap10 in 6mm Creedmoor and can't wait to see how it does. Something about a 105gn bullet running at 3150fps that just makes me smile, faster if it's not in a match :)

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Click to expand...
 
User22 said:
Yep, I've noticed you really like that H100v.. You done got me thinking about buying some for a 6.5Lapua load!
Click to expand...

It cheaper by a few bucks per pound, Meters much better and is more consistent for me with some high velocity before I see pressure signs. I never thought the 6mm Creedmoor would run a 105gn bullet at 3380fps but it did during a basic ladder test when I first started using it. My problem is I've bought it all up locally and can't find it anymore. H4350 works just as well for the most part but I suppose I wanted to be different.

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Irokcrawl said:
DA change? I had it change during a shooting session which dropped 6 tenths off at 1k off my normal dope! That's a good bit. Basically dropped it to 6.1mils to 1k vs 6.7mils. I always check the DA befor I head up to shoot a stage.



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Click to expand...

DA wouldn't change poi that much at 100 yards...
 
Did you chrono it with a magneto speed? They push my poi up around 2"-3" depending on the gun. If you zeroed it with it on then your dope would probably be off at every distance.

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Irokcrawl said:
Did you chrono it with a magneto speed? They push my poi up around 2"-3" depending on the gun. If you zeroed it with it on then your dope would probably be off at every distance.

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My heavy varmint barrel didn't see any POI shift with a Magnetospeed on it. Not saying they don't cause a shift but heavy barrels seem to have little to now shift.
 
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Yeah I've noticed the same thing. Also mounted it on a supressor yesterday and had no point of impact shift there bit there was already a can hanging off the end which usually causes a minimal point of impact change vs no supressor. The magneto speed is the only chrono I will ever use from here on out unless the whole radar thing is mind blowing or something. With the values I get from the magneto speed shooter and a kestrel with applied ballistics show the same thing and are dead on. No calibration needed.

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Well that wasnt my experience with one lol. I dicked with a V3 for a few weeks and never could get it to match my real data. Always 80-120 fps fast no matter what I did. I checked the scope, range, angle, gap on the bayonet, shit you name it i tried it. Same results every time. I have up after Magnetospeed told me it was an end user error and that they have never had a failure to date. I took that your retarded and our shit is in capable of errors so deal with it, so I sold it lol
 
I've put it on upside down and as long as the two sensors are in line with the bullet it will read right. If you do not have your program adjustable for DA then it may be off. If I don't account for DA at 1k I'm 6.7mils with what the magneto speed says for velocity. Used DA for a corrected dope value and it dropped to 6.1mils and was very close. Less than a 1/10th of a mil or less than I can hold.

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Applied Ballistics Kestrel was used along with a separate kestrel with no ballistics and data was transferred to Ballistic AE and several other solvers. All same data that didn't match the V3 output. Like I said I just gave up. Tried different scopes and did tracking tests ect. Everything checked out except the speed on the V3. Their attitude towards it not being a faulty bayonet is what pushed me to sell it. Not even a small chance according to them so there is not even a small chance I will ever recommend one again or ever own one lol.
 
Wow. That sucks. I know there is settings in it but I don't ever touch them. Maybe the radar thing will be out soon and I'm sure with it reading velocity out to 100 yards it will tell us much more about what's going on than we can find out on a consumer level.

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Yeah I was pretty disappointed as I really wanted it to work lol. I know lots of people use them with good results but mine just wasn't. I was willing to send it back and have them take a look and pay shipping both ways but the response of it would be a waste of time and money really rubbed me wrong. Oh well I've just gone back to the way I did it before which is just shoot and record data and conditions and reverse engineer the data for speed. I like the sound of the radar deal so maybe I'll try it sometime.
 
That's how I did it before I got the magneto speed. Take what I think is close and go from there. Verify it and input environmentals for any changes and never had an issue. This just helps in load development for me.

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Did you try changing the batteries? This helped my V2 out when it started not reading.


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Conrad said:
Did you try changing the batteries? This helped my V2 out when it started not reading.


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I didn't. It would read every shot but just was way high. Not saying that couldn't be a solution but my problem was an accuracy vs a not reading problem. Like I said I really wanted it to work lol.
 
Different is good, LOL!! Let me check with my dealer..
Irokcrawl said:
It cheaper by a few bucks per pound, Meters much better and is more consistent for me with some high velocity before I see pressure signs. I never thought the 6mm Creedmoor would run a 105gn bullet at 3380fps but it did during a basic ladder test when I first started using it. My problem is I've bought it all up locally and can't find it anymore. H4350 works just as well for the most part but I suppose I wanted to be different.

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