60gr SS in the BoreBuddy Apogee 16" barrel (22lr 1-12" twist)

[renaissanceman]

TLDR: Skip to the bolded text at the end for the 60gr SS observations.

I went and put a bunch of ammo through two new builds, both with 16.1" Apogee barrels with nitride. The barrels were randomly selected out of inventory.

ELR #1 has a 3-18x44 Strike Eagle
ELR #2 has a 5-25x56 Venom

Both bores were cleaned and then ceramic coated in the shop before firing. Each had 100 rds of Aguila Superextra fired through them to give the bores a good coating of fouling before the SV ammo testing started.

Ammo tested:

Aguila Superextra SV
Aguila 60gr SS
CCI SV
Wolf Match Target (Eley)
Wolf Match Extra (Eley)
Mini Mag (10 rds, at a customer request)

All shots were fired off Caldwell bags and a crappy folding table/camping chair. Nothing but the best around here. Ammo was magazine loaded from 10rd 15-22 mags with a better mag adapter. Muzzle device was a Kaw Valley XL aluminum linear comp.

ELR#1 got 95% of the trigger time. Conditions were around 50F and breezy with gusts up to around 10-15mph at times. The wind started at my back and gradually shifted to nearly 90 degrees to the bullet path by the end of the day.

I didn't throw away a single paper target. All targets are scanned and available here:

https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Test-Targets-AR22-ELR-builds.pdf

CC SV threw down some impressive groups (for semi-auto, at least) and was the clear winner for ELR#1. ELR#2 was not tested with anything but CCI SV but it liked it as well.

I'm very pleased. I have a lot more ammo types to test, most that are more expensive than the above ammo assortment. If both barrels like 8cpr CCI SV the best, I'll not complain. Cheap date.

I shot ELR #1 out to 270 yards. Hitting a 6"wx11"h steel target was incredibly easy at 200 yards with CCI SV. Almost not even fun. at 270 yards was a little desert bluff and hitting little rocks and making them tumble down was not hard. 5.3 mils up for 200y, 10 mils up for 270y.

Aguila 60g SS was stable to 270 yards (max range at the location I was at). No signs of keyholing or yawing at all, nice little round holes. Accuracy was not stellar, with a large ~12" vertical spread and ~4" horizonal spread with a cross breeze, but they were quite stable. I think velocity of the ammo was all over the place, more investigation needed when I have time to set up the chrono.

If Aguila could get the velocity variations under control, these would be a great load for this barrel. As of now they are still a great load for suppressed since they fly straight in a 1-12" twist use if you want that extra mass. The sound of hitting steel at extended range was noticeably louder than 40gr SV loads.

 

[littlesister]

TLDR: Skip to the bolded text at the end for the 60gr SS observations.

I went and put a bunch of ammo through two new builds, both with 16.1" Apogee barrels with nitride. The barrels were randomly selected out of inventory.

ELR #1 has a 3-18x44 Strike Eagle
ELR #2 has a 5-25x56 Venom

Both bores were cleaned and then ceramic coated in the shop before firing. Each had 100 rds of Aguila Superextra fired through them to give the bores a good coating of fouling before the SV ammo testing started.

Ammo tested:

Aguila Superextra SV
Aguila 60gr SS
CCI SV
Wolf Match Target (Eley)
Wolf Match Extra (Eley)
Mini Mag (10 rds, at a customer request)

All shots were fired off Caldwell bags and a crappy folding table/camping chair. Nothing but the best around here. Ammo was magazine loaded from 10rd 15-22 mags with a better mag adapter. Muzzle device was a Kaw Valley XL aluminum linear comp.

ELR#1 got 95% of the trigger time. Conditions were around 50F and breezy with gusts up to around 10-15mph at times. The wind started at my back and gradually shifted to nearly 90 degrees to the bullet path by the end of the day.

I didn't throw away a single paper target. All targets are scanned and available here:

https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Test-Targets-AR22-ELR-builds.pdf

CC SV threw down some impressive groups (for semi-auto, at least) and was the clear winner for ELR#1. ELR#2 was not tested with anything but CCI SV but it liked it as well.

I'm very pleased. I have a lot more ammo types to test, most that are more expensive than the above ammo assortment. If both barrels like 8cpr CCI SV the best, I'll not complain. Cheap date.

I shot ELR #1 out to 270 yards. Hitting a 6"wx11"h steel target was incredibly easy at 200 yards with CCI SV. Almost not even fun. at 270 yards was a little desert bluff and hitting little rocks and making them tumble down was not hard. 5.3 mils up for 200y, 10 mils up for 270y.

Aguila 60g SS was stable to 270 yards (max range at the location I was at). No signs of keyholing or yawing at all, nice little round holes. Accuracy was not stellar, with a large ~12" vertical spread and ~4" horizonal spread with a cross breeze, but they were quite stable. I think velocity of the ammo was all over the place, more investigation needed when I have time to set up the chrono.

If Aguila could get the velocity variations under control, these would be a great load for this barrel. As of now they are still a great load for suppressed since they fly straight in a 1-12" twist use if you want that extra mass. The sound of hitting steel at extended range was noticeably louder than 40gr SV loads.

 

[littlesister]

TLDR: Skip to the bolded text at the end for the 60gr SS observations.

I went and put a bunch of ammo through two new builds, both with 16.1" Apogee barrels with nitride. The barrels were randomly selected out of inventory.

ELR #1 has a 3-18x44 Strike Eagle
ELR #2 has a 5-25x56 Venom

Both bores were cleaned and then ceramic coated in the shop before firing. Each had 100 rds of Aguila Superextra fired through them to give the bores a good coating of fouling before the SV ammo testing started.

Ammo tested:

Aguila Superextra SV
Aguila 60gr SS
CCI SV
Wolf Match Target (Eley)
Wolf Match Extra (Eley)
Mini Mag (10 rds, at a customer request)

All shots were fired off Caldwell bags and a crappy folding table/camping chair. Nothing but the best around here. Ammo was magazine loaded from 10rd 15-22 mags with a better mag adapter. Muzzle device was a Kaw Valley XL aluminum linear comp.

ELR#1 got 95% of the trigger time. Conditions were around 50F and breezy with gusts up to around 10-15mph at times. The wind started at my back and gradually shifted to nearly 90 degrees to the bullet path by the end of the day.

I didn't throw away a single paper target. All targets are scanned and available here:

https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Test-Targets-AR22-ELR-builds.pdf

CC SV threw down some impressive groups (for semi-auto, at least) and was the clear winner for ELR#1. ELR#2 was not tested with anything but CCI SV but it liked it as well.

I'm very pleased. I have a lot more ammo types to test, most that are more expensive than the above ammo assortment. If both barrels like 8cpr CCI SV the best, I'll not complain. Cheap date.

I shot ELR #1 out to 270 yards. Hitting a 6"wx11"h steel target was incredibly easy at 200 yards with CCI SV. Almost not even fun. at 270 yards was a little desert bluff and hitting little rocks and making them tumble down was not hard. 5.3 mils up for 200y, 10 mils up for 270y.

Aguila 60g SS was stable to 270 yards (max range at the location I was at). No signs of keyholing or yawing at all, nice little round holes. Accuracy was not stellar, with a large ~12" vertical spread and ~4" horizonal spread with a cross breeze, but they were quite stable. I think velocity of the ammo was all over the place, more investigation needed when I have time to set up the chrono.

If Aguila could get the velocity variations under control, these would be a great load for this barrel. As of now they are still a great load for suppressed since they fly straight in a 1-12" twist use if you want that extra mass. The sound of hitting steel at extended range was noticeably louder than 40gr SV loads.

Don't know what's going on here. Not my post nor have I replied to it!

 

[RTH1800]

Might have been hacked!

 

[littlesister]

Might have been hacked!

Well, since I'm already involved I think I will reply. Looking at the targets posted, I don't see one decent 50yd. group. Even worse at 100! I do understand why. If you ceramic coat a 22 remfire barrel you might as well put a blast of Wd40 down the bore before every shot. Same results!

 

[justin amateur]

I've given Aguila 60 grain SSS several tries.
50, 100 and 200 yards across a chronograph.
Multiple fail to fires, multiple case ruptures where the rim split.
Visual inspection shows indications of rough handling of components and sloppy assembly.
MV spread up to 300 fps per box of 50.
Serious vertical spread caused by those mv differences.
It's poorly made bulk rimfire ammunition,
for use offhand at close range, center of critter.
Fine for putting down a predator stalking the chicken coop.
In no way intended for any kind of precision shooting.
Use any twist you like, it won't overcome the cartridge problems.
Garbage in = garbage out.

 

[renaissanceman]

Well, since I'm already involved I think I will reply. Looking at the targets posted, I don't see one decent 50yd. group. Even worse at 100! I do understand why. If you ceramic coat a 22 remfire barrel you might as well put a blast of Wd40 down the bore before every shot. Same results!

Nah, not at all. I've done it to many rimfire and centerfire rifles, and have found only improvement.

There's a 0.368" 50yd group in there in case you missed it. Not too shabby for a semi auto in breezy conditions.

 

[renaissanceman]

I've given Aguila 60 grain SSS several tries.
50, 100 and 200 yards across a chronograph.
Multiple fail to fires, multiple case ruptures where the rim split.
Visual inspection shows indications of rough handling of components and sloppy assembly.
MV spread up to 300 fps per box of 50.
Serious vertical spread caused by those mv differences.
It's poorly made bulk rimfire ammunition,
for use offhand at close range, center of critter.
Fine for putting down a predator stalking the chicken coop.
In no way intended for any kind of precision shooting.
Use any twist you like, it won't overcome the cartridge problems.
Garbage in = garbage out.

The lot I have fires on every trigger pull and has no case rupture issues. A 12" vertical spread at 200 is caused by a 100fps ES according to Strelok. I'll run some over the chronograph this week.

I'm not expecting precision shooting with most of these loads, functionally good accuracy with 100% reliability is the main goal.

 

[ohiofarmer]

Nah, not at all. I've done it to many rimfire and centerfire rifles, and have found only improvement.

There's a 0.368" 50yd group in there in case you missed it. Not too shabby for a semi auto in breezy conditions.

@renaissanceman Tell us more about the ceramic coating. What product/process is used?

 

[renaissanceman]

@renaissanceman Tell us more about the ceramic coating. What product/process is used?

Hexagonal Boron Nitride applied in a suspension of your solvent of choice.

 

[RTH1800]

TLDR: Skip to the bolded text at the end for the 60gr SS observations.

I went and put a bunch of ammo through two new builds, both with 16.1" Apogee barrels with nitride. The barrels were randomly selected out of inventory.

ELR #1 has a 3-18x44 Strike Eagle
ELR #2 has a 5-25x56 Venom

Both bores were cleaned and then ceramic coated in the shop before firing. Each had 100 rds of Aguila Superextra fired through them to give the bores a good coating of fouling before the SV ammo testing started.

Ammo tested:

Aguila Superextra SV
Aguila 60gr SS
CCI SV
Wolf Match Target (Eley)
Wolf Match Extra (Eley)
Mini Mag (10 rds, at a customer request)

All shots were fired off Caldwell bags and a crappy folding table/camping chair. Nothing but the best around here. Ammo was magazine loaded from 10rd 15-22 mags with a better mag adapter. Muzzle device was a Kaw Valley XL aluminum linear comp.

ELR#1 got 95% of the trigger time. Conditions were around 50F and breezy with gusts up to around 10-15mph at times. The wind started at my back and gradually shifted to nearly 90 degrees to the bullet path by the end of the day.

I didn't throw away a single paper target. All targets are scanned and available here:

https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Test-Targets-AR22-ELR-builds.pdf

CC SV threw down some impressive groups (for semi-auto, at least) and was the clear winner for ELR#1. ELR#2 was not tested with anything but CCI SV but it liked it as well.

I'm very pleased. I have a lot more ammo types to test, most that are more expensive than the above ammo assortment. If both barrels like 8cpr CCI SV the best, I'll not complain. Cheap date.

I shot ELR #1 out to 270 yards. Hitting a 6"wx11"h steel target was incredibly easy at 200 yards with CCI SV. Almost not even fun. at 270 yards was a little desert bluff and hitting little rocks and making them tumble down was not hard. 5.3 mils up for 200y, 10 mils up for 270y.

Aguila 60g SS was stable to 270 yards (max range at the location I was at). No signs of keyholing or yawing at all, nice little round holes. Accuracy was not stellar, with a large ~12" vertical spread and ~4" horizonal spread with a cross breeze, but they were quite stable. I think velocity of the ammo was all over the place, more investigation needed when I have time to set up the chrono.

If Aguila could get the velocity variations under control, these would be a great load for this barrel. As of now they are still a great load for suppressed since they fly straight in a 1-12" twist use if you want that extra mass. The sound of hitting steel at extended range was noticeably louder than 40gr SV loads.

Last I heard this ammo was no longer being made. It has some very good points but accuracy is not one of them. It is very quiet, hits harder than any other .22 LR ammo I know of. Penetrates very well.
I have had no FTF or case head blow outs. It is very dirty so cleaning action is mandatory.

 

[renaissanceman]

Last I heard this ammo was no longer being made. It has some very good points but accuracy is not one of them. It is very quiet, hits harder than any other .22 LR ammo I know of. Penetrates very well.
I have had no FTF or case head blow outs. It is very dirty so cleaning action is mandatory.

It may be making a comeback very soon.

 

[renaissanceman]

The lot of 60gr SS I have is averaging 895fps with ES of 88 and SD of 22.5. I weight sorted a few of them, there are three distinct weight groups in my lot 69.1gr, 69.2gr and 69.4gr with a few random ones all over the place in the 68s. I'm going to pull down a few from each weight group and all the low weight ones and see what I find.

My velocity data from 20 shots was as follows sorted low to high:

854
867
869
870
870
874
879
884
890
900
900
902
902
905
906
915
916
920
925
942

 

[justin amateur]

It's Aguila made 22lr, ES over 70 fps is no surprise.
Do a visual inspection, how many indications of rough handling
and sloppy assembly do you find? Look at those cartridges closely,
if they are anything like the ones I was shipped, the trajectory spread
is easily explained by the dents, dings, asymmetry and mv variations.

 

[264win]

I have always though the 60 g SS ammo was interesting for fun experiments. But is there really any use that it’s better for than the dozens of quality 40 gr loads ?
Not to mention the 42 and 45 grain loads.

 

[RTH1800]

Yes

 

[renaissanceman]

It's Aguila made 22lr, ES over 70 fps is no surprise.
Do a visual inspection, how many indications of rough handling
and sloppy assembly do you find? Look at those cartridges closely,
if they are anything like the ones I was shipped, the trajectory spread
is easily explained by the dents, dings, asymmetry and mv variations.

The build quality actually looks pretty decent on these. I'll shoot the weight sorted ones soon and report back.

 

[264win]

Yes

If you don’t mind explaining I would actually be interested to know.
By my ( questionable ) calculations it actually has less energy at the muzzle, and no advantage in penetration that I have been able to discover at close range.

 

[renaissanceman]

If you don’t mind explaining I would actually be interested to know.
By my ( questionable ) calculations it actually has less energy at the muzzle, and no advantage in penetration that I have been able to discover at close range.

They have the same momentum as HV loads. I can't imagine that they don't penetrate deeper than a 40gr subsonic.

 

[RTH1800]

They are just flat out killers on large critters. I have wondered if the marginal stability plays a role.

 

[renaissanceman]

I had great success with weight sorting and hollow pointing them with the Waltz die. Still some random fliers, but I'm getting much tighter groups. I'll be pulling down a bunch of ammo to check powder charges next.

Data/Targets to come.

 

[justin amateur]

Don't forget to check the primer amounts.
Weigh the brass/primer after emptying the powder,
fire the cartridge, run a brush in the fired case to clear the burn residue,
then weigh the clean empty brass...the difference between before and after
is y'er primer amount. Compare the percentage of primer variation to average.

 

[littlesister]

Don't forget to check the primer amounts.
Weigh the brass/primer after emptying the powder,
fire the cartridge, run a brush in the fired case to clear the burn residue,
then weigh the clean empty brass...the difference between before and after
is y'er primer amount. Compare the percentage of primer variation to average.

And after going through all this trouble you might possibly find out what any other shooter finds out after shooting a box of this stuff. It doesn't work. Offers no benefits over standard 40gr ammo other than it shoots a bit quieter supressed due to a lower mv. Goes under my heading of crap.

 

[renaissanceman]

And after going through all this trouble you might possibly find out what any other shooter finds out after shooting a box of this stuff. It doesn't work. Offers no benefits over standard 40gr ammo other than it shoots a bit quieter supressed due to a lower mv. Goes under my heading of crap.

It's no worse accuracy-wise than any other non-match ammo. It hits hard and is a ton of fun to blast at things. I'm hollow pointing it all, which makes it much more useful.

 

[renaissanceman]

More testing for those who are interested.

The expensive stuff:
https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Targets-04-26-202304262023.pdf

And some 60gr SS weight sorted and some hollow pointed with the Waltz die:
https://borebuddy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Targets-04-27-202304272023.pdf

Vertical stringing is still an issue, but sorting seems to have helped. The HP die also helps, as it bumps diameter by 0.001-0.002".
Targets marked "780" are control groups with an old Marlin Model 780 that shoots well for a factory rifle and has sent a lot of varmints to the afterlife.

 

[renaissanceman]

Hollow pointed with the waltz die.