seems like its shooting close to the Annie then?
- Thread starter jbell
- Start date
seems like its shooting close to the Annie then?
Yes, it is getting close. It is close enough that I am probably going to sell the Anschutz, I only "need" one super accurate 22lr and could use the cash for other projects.
Time to start a 2019 6x5, what ya say jbell. Wind will be low here in the morning, I will see if I can shoot something worthy.
I was just going to keep this one rolling as is. The only reason there are now 3 different 6X5 sets of results is because the 1st one was from the "old Hide", the 2nd from Scout, and now this one from the current version. The first two have several years in them. I wish we could have been able to carry over all the post from the 1st 2 sets into this one. My main goal is not for "competition" but rather compiling data of what is possible.
But heck yeah, shoot us a smoker tomorrow!! I look forward to it! Here is to a no wind morning
I hadn't intended to shoot a 6x5 today. I just wanted to shoot a little bit. I keep a target posted at 50 yards off my back porch so I can shoot any time I want without needing to post a target first. It seems I had a new target with no holes. I decided to shoot my Anschutz MPR because it doesn't get much attention since I got my Vudoo. First group looked pretty good so I shot 5 more. I used a front bag instead of a bipod.
50 yards.
Anschutz MPR
SK Pistol Match.
60* slight wind, raining a little
Average: .4105"
Best: .278"
I used a front bag instead of a bipod.50 yards.
Anschutz MPR
SK Pistol Match.
60* slight wind, raining a little
Average: .4105"
Best: .278"
Nice shooting gentlemen! I have you both on the board.
No changes to my posted results, but thought I would post this here for those interested. Did a back to back to back test of my Ruger Precision Rimfire rifle (Athlon Ares ETR, UTG Bipod) with my Sparrow II, no suppressor, and my Spectre II. Same ammo (CCI SV), same range, same shooter (me) and as similar conditions as possible. Shot them in 6X5 so I figured I'd post here.
Conditions:
40 degrees when I started, somewhere in the 48-50 degree range when I finished. Winds blowing every damn direction, left, right, at me...
Results:
0.468" Best, 0.659" Average with No Suppressor
0.550" Best, 0.688" Average with Sparrow II
0.394" Best, 0.527" Average with Spectre II - although Group #4 had a lot of potential except for that one shot (Always how it goes)
Also shot some 15 shot groups at 100 - wind was really messing with those as were a couple noticeably louder, so presumably faster, rounds.
Will need to run some more test, but I have been shooting primarily with my Sparrow attached. Considering shifting focus to the Spectre...
Conditions:
40 degrees when I started, somewhere in the 48-50 degree range when I finished. Winds blowing every damn direction, left, right, at me...
Results:
0.468" Best, 0.659" Average with No Suppressor
0.550" Best, 0.688" Average with Sparrow II
0.394" Best, 0.527" Average with Spectre II - although Group #4 had a lot of potential except for that one shot (Always how it goes)
Also shot some 15 shot groups at 100 - wind was really messing with those as were a couple noticeably louder, so presumably faster, rounds.
Will need to run some more test, but I have been shooting primarily with my Sparrow attached. Considering shifting focus to the Spectre...
Even though the average was smaller w/o a suppressor it looks like the Spectre had a better tune to it with some single round fliers that hurt the average, but I know the rifle with the Sparrow has turned in better averages. How does the rifle with the Spectre do with better ammo?? I feel like everything you have posted with the rifle has been with the Sparrow as opposed to the Spectre.
Everything to date (before this test) was with the Sparrow as I have traditionally gotten slightly better results with it on other rifles. Need to experiment a little more with different ammo head to head. I have some Wolf, I think some R50, and I have some Center-X on its way. Groups were larger than best posted across the board - probably due to the suck wind conditions.
ETA: Part of the reason I have been focusing on the CCI SV is that this rifle seems to like it, I have a stash of it, and I am curious how far I can wring a $350 gun with $2/box ammo.
I that a factory barreled CZ, any modifications? I think that is the best target I have seen from a stock 455...
I started the build by turning the shoulder of the stock barrel so I could set the head space with shims like the lilja setup. I recrowned the barrel. I glued the barrel into the action. Polished the internals. Switched out trigger springs. Pillar and glass bedded the action and barrel. At first I had only 3 inches of the barrel bedded and it shot pretty well. I wanted to experiment, so I bedded the rest of the barrel, it shot worse. So far I have taken 1 inch of bedding off of the muzzle end. This is currently where I'm at. Will shoot indoors today and see if I can work on those group sizes.
Very cool testing on the barrel bedding, another way to “tune” harmonics.
That was what I was thinking, i had planned on taking out an inch at a time to see the effects. If I can repeat another 6x5 like yesterday or better it, I'll probably leave it alone.
Do you think you could make a combined list as well from all three versions? I'm kinda curious to see where all the Vudoo's land in relation to all the older groups as well.
so I bedded the rest of the barrel, it shot worse
Sure hope y'er testing across a chronograph so as not to blame the results totally on the rifle
when it could be entirely the ammunition that is to blame. Rimfire ammo quality varies... a lot.
Even high end match ammo can have runs of off spec production.
Get a box of match labeled ammo and it'll produce Winchester White Box results.
Sure hope y'er testing across a chronograph so as not to blame the results totally on the rifle
when it could be entirely the ammunition that is to blame. Rimfire ammo quality varies... a lot.
Even high end match ammo can have runs of off spec production.
Get a box of match labeled ammo and it'll produce Winchester White Box results.
My best 5 shot 100Y group at 0.297"
I was just shooting cheap SK+ to wait for my AR to cool down and I ended up with my best 5 shot group at 100Y. I'd say it's mostly luck, but I still managed the best 5 shot group at 100Y....
Rifle CZ455 fully customized by DJ
Scope Sightron 36X
Shot off bipod and rear bag
Ammo SK+
Best 5 shot group
The rest of groups
I was just shooting cheap SK+ to wait for my AR to cool down and I ended up with my best 5 shot group at 100Y. I'd say it's mostly luck, but I still managed the best 5 shot group at 100Y....
Rifle CZ455 fully customized by DJ
Scope Sightron 36X
Shot off bipod and rear bag
Ammo SK+
Best 5 shot group
The rest of groups
I shot 3 new 6x5's at the indoor range today. This was the best 6 group average. No doubt I could tighten up a couple but I'm learning about shooting this rifle and having a good time. The other 6x5's were .386 and .455 average. Best group of the day was .250
Shot 2 25 shot groups at .642 and .701
Shot 2 25 shot groups at .642 and .701
Attachments
A number of years ago, when I started messing with the 6x5, I measured the bullet swipe and found a significant difference between the actual diameter of the swipe and the .223 most use. It varied with type of paper or card stock, bullet used, stick on target type, target backer and even humidity. In all cases it was less than .223.
Note that blacknwhite11 is using a sizer round on each target and then averaging those to use in reaching a final group size. On his first target he shows an average of .392 which would translate to .355 using .223. Nice shooting bnw.
Note that blacknwhite11 is using a sizer round on each target and then averaging those to use in reaching a final group size. On his first target he shows an average of .392 which would translate to .355 using .223. Nice shooting bnw.
Thank you, I know the rules state only 30 shots per target, but i feel like getting an average sizer give a better representation of group size. Obviously if i used .223 the groups would be a little better, but I'm just using my average sizer unless directed otherwise.
This is interesting. I just measured some stray shots on my targets. I have some ARA targets that are a stiff cardboard. They measure pretty close to .222" which is what I have been using. Shots on targets that have been printed on regular printer paper measure much smaller. My examples are .190" to .200" or so.
Yeah, I've been trying to research and come up with the best medium to shoot groups on. I've used poster board in the past but would like to come up with something that tears more uniform.
My best 5 shot 100Y group at 0.297"
I was just shooting cheap SK+ to wait for my AR to cool down and I ended up with my best 5 shot group at 100Y. I'd say it's mostly luck, but I still managed the best 5 shot group at 100Y....
Rifle CZ455 fully customized by DJ
Scope Sightron 36X
Shot off bipod and rear bag
Ammo SK+
Best 5 shot group
The rest of groups
That is a nice group for sure. I only see 5 groups, I need 6 consecutive to post up on the results...
Yes, all very true. Back when we got this ball rolling we discussed this and tested it somewhat. Basically the general consensus is to either use a "sizer" round (which is honestly the best method) or use the size that those of us who were involved in the discussion (not that we are correct or know anything special) settled on as an average for most target material and backer material: 0.222" It definitely varies some, but since there is no money on the line or anything as long as people don't get crazy I don't really care...
blacknwhite11, I updated your average group size. Nice shooting.
Thank you! I think I'll leave the rifle alone at this point. Just have fun shooting it.
I thought it would go under best 100Y group (and not 100Y average).
Alright, here's a 8 five shot group with the same DJ custom CZ455 shot at 100Y with center X for an average of 0.775"
Wouldn't that be a lot like cherry picking groups? Meaning only "best" groups that were part of a 6X5 target are recorded. I have shot a lot groups at 100 yards in the low 0.2XX's but only a very few in a target that I intended for a 6X5. I am just trying to keep the playing field even for everyone.
I got you on the results, nice shooting.
I need a little info on this target before I can post it up on the results. This thread is a 6X5, meaning 6 groups of 5 shots that are shot in consecutive order. So I need to know what targets to use. I cant just pick the best 6 targets and use them to get an average, nor can I use the 6 best consecutively shot targets for an average and use a group that isn't included in those 6 as the best group. Meaning 6 targets shot consecutively to get an average and out of those the best group is established.
With that said there are no limits on how many times you can post up a target. So if you submit 2 groups of 6 targets of which one nets the lowest average and the other has the smallest single group that is perfectly acceptable. People (myself included) submit targets all the time that don't better a previous attempt, as far as I am concerned the more the better.
Lastly if you want me to take an average of all these for you average I am happy to. I will note on the results that it is a 23 group average, which would be the largest sample by far!! I don't see any issues with doing an average of more than 6 targets as it more than likely will make it harder for a small average.
Let me know how to post this up and Ill be happy to! We just have to keep all the entries on the same playing field.
Man I would love to see that also, but I just don't have time to compile all of that data. I did throw this together really quick the other day for a different conversation. It is a rough overview of what your asking, & IMO it is pretty impressive:
From what I am seeing in the current generation of the 6X5 thread 6 of the top 10 average groups and best group @ 50 yards are shot with Vudoo's! Also of those 6 targets the largest of them was good enough to be in the top 12 of the 2nd generation and top 6 of the 1st generation for the averages, and be in the top 15 of the best group of any generation of that thread. That is out of 126 rifles over all 3 generations!
Sorry jbell, thought you may have noticed only one of the groups had more than 5 groups, I just showed my whole target making sure I didn't hand pick 6 certain targets for the day. The top group of SK pistol match was shot left to right in order top row, second row, the rest of the groups were messing around with different holds on the chassis. Not sure what caused those 2 flyers, just guess it happens. All shots were off wood bench using a atlas bipod and rabbit ear rear bag.
I did notice that, but was not sure of how you wanted to score it. I used the last 6 groups of that 8 group string with SK pistol match for your average, it gave you the lowest average. Is that cool with you?
I have played around with Lapua's and Eley's "pistol" ammo before and when the conditions are good it seems to be pretty consistent ammo, I cant remember messing with SK's offerings.
Got the Vudoo out for a short session. The wind was fairly low at 2 up to 5 mph but it was switching some (as can be seen in the targets, damn I need to start setting up wind flags). The air temp was warm at 60f, finally!! I had to come up a little at 50 yards because I was shooting out my POA which is why you see the POI shift from the 1st target to the rest. I am not sure what happened on the 3rd and 4th target (shot top to bottom left to right). The only thing I can think of is the wind switched from a L-R to a head wind, this range will throw some vertical with rimfire and head or tail winds. It could have been a pretty decent target otherwise...
I really love this rifle! It clearly shoots better than I do right now, this bike racing stuff is really impeding on my shooting.
You can see some of that L to R wind here at 100 yards, this is pretty typical for 2-4 MPH POI shift if not corrected.
I really love this rifle! It clearly shoots better than I do right now, this bike racing stuff is really impeding on my shooting.
You can see some of that L to R wind here at 100 yards, this is pretty typical for 2-4 MPH POI shift if not corrected.
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Thank you, I just added a little after action report to the post that you may have missed (you post came in while I was adding it). Based on what I was seeing I am certain this rifle is capable of much more. My lack of wind reading skills were the big detractor today, I struggle in the sub 5mph wind conditions especially when there are no good wind indicators out.
What are your individual bull #'s or average per target?
I certainly do not mean to be rude, where are you measuring your groups at? Which targets are the 0.020" and 0.080" groups at 50 yards?
HAHA! At this point I will not be offended at anything anyone says, as I am very new to this and want to learn.
I asked on the Vudoo thread how to measure groups. I was told by reubenski: “I just set my caliper to .220” and zero it out and then measure from edge to edge where the grease marks start.”
So that’s what I did here.
The top right black and white target measures .08
The bottom right black and white target measures .02
I just remeasured and that’s what it’s saying.
Cool man, I certainly do not mean to "call you out" or anything stupid like that. I am also not trying to diminish your targets or shooting because they are very good no matter how they are measured!
Are you measuring the holes or the white around the holes? I would guess that if you measure just a bullet hole in that style of target it will be around 0.150" to 0.190" (with your calipers zeroed not adjusted for bullet diameter). If you measure the white around the actual hole it will be closer to bullet diameter, probably 0.218" up to 0.222". It really depends on the material the target is made of, the backer that the target is attached to, how tight it is attached to the target, humidity of the air, and I am sure much more... The point is NONE of our groups are 100% accurate as it is VERY difficult to be exact. Years ago we (the people who were participating in this thread) had a discussion on how to measure groups and it was generally decided to measure the outside of the mark the bullets left on the target nd then subtract 0.222" for a center to center measurement. Again depending on so much it may be really close or not so much.
By the way, I would love to see a pic of the Vudoo!
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