You're probably going to have to handload to get any kind of accuracy. I had a 9mm barrel made for my T/C thinking I could shoot 147 Federal through it with a suppressor. Slingshot accuracy at best. The only ammo that shot worth a darn was 127gr. +P+ Winchester. Not sure why, but it shoots good enough to at least use the barrel once in a while.
9mm Bolt Action Rifle - Looking for people with experience with the manufacturer (Curtis Tactical)
- Thread starter Franko
- Start date
It's been quite a while, but IIRC it's on the order of 3" @25 yds.
Our pressure test barrel would easily do under 1" with most loads.
That doesn't mean SA pistols will do the same, but a decent rifle should hold 1" @25yds with handloading.
Of course, I'd be much happier with <1" @ 50yds
I've actually thought about doing a rimless 38 Spl/357 on a CZ 527.
I'd use 223/Fireball brass shortened to the correct length and load up 180-200gr lead hard cast.
I'd use 223/Fireball brass shortened to the correct length and load up 180-200gr lead hard cast.
1. 221 Fireball magazine. Might as well get all the case length I need so it feeds properly without modification.
2. I already have dies.
3. No special reamer needed. Most gunsmiths probably have a 38/357 in a drawer somewhere.
2. I already have dies.
3. No special reamer needed. Most gunsmiths probably have a 38/357 in a drawer somewhere.
I was trying to be diplomatic when I said probably. I opened my barrel up to 9x23 right off the bat and then 9mm magnum. If
you need to handload for it, might as well make it useful.
Why not a .350 Legend (very close to a rimless .357 Maximum)?
Simply because of the stupid-assed name they gave it.
I could chamber it in the 350L and then mark it 357 Max rimless.
I hear you - that is easily one of the stupidest names as far as standard chamberings go. Close second to ".360 Buckhammer " in my opinionSimply because of the stupid-assed name they gave it.
I could chamber it in the 350L and then mark it 357 Max rimless.
They didn't run right, and I think he went back to making cans. I don't think you can really control round feed with a 9mm, or at least this action doesn't, over the distance it is trying to cover. They used Rem 700 geometry, so the bolt is trying to move a 9mm projectile 2-3 inches, but not push feed, like the 700 was designed for, but with a janky "control feed" that really doesn't have enough bite on the cartridge rim. What I think needed to happen was that the chamber needed to be brought back about 2 inches, and the action needed to be set up for rear locking lugs. And I say that as someone who has never designed a firearm and knows way less than Curtis. But not only would mine not feed, the ejector usually punched a hole in the cartridge rim, jamming the action up, because the CRF claw was so small it didn't keep the cartridge properly tensioned or extracted as you ran the bolt back, even if you ran it back quickly. Anyway, it was a total bummer to have spent this amount of money on something that was supposed to be in an operational state, and just wasn't. I don't know if the .45 versions performed better, they may have.
I ended up with a two stamp 45 ACP bolt action from Cotton Branch.
I'm finishing one up now. CZ527, Some $65 blem 9mm AR barrel spun down at the breech and threaded to fit. So far so good. Now working on a thingy that will stabilize a Walther 9mm mag (fits the 527 mag well width) in the correct position, right height and close to the breech so the round stays aligned. My reason was that I had a bunch of mid '70's IMI +P+ sub gun ammo and needed something to shoot it in. With estimating the pressures for the ammo and looking at Gordons for the 16" barrel I'm guessing 1450 to 1550 fps. I just know it makes a showing when it hits.
Thank you,
MrSmith
Thank you,
MrSmith
Get a 22 tcm bolt action then purchase a green mountain 9mm blank and have it chambered. Total cost probably 1k total .
Or purchase a spanish destroyer in 9x23 have a gunsmith turn it into a 9x19. About the same cost total. The tcm rifle is nice
Or purchase a spanish destroyer in 9x23 have a gunsmith turn it into a 9x19. About the same cost total. The tcm rifle is nice
My original Spanish destroyer 9mm parabellum is not to terrible . The 22tcm is a nice rifle.
The Curtis one failed, well maybe not failed but made it trickier, because they wanted to have a 700 footprint. In theory this was a good idea to be able to drop it in any chassis on the market, in reality it’s just not conducive.
The cz 527 is fantastic for this project, modify the bottom of the action to accept whatever feeding device you’re using and your pretty much there.
As this and a couple other threads have proven there is a fair amount of interest in it, Im surprised no company has made a legit factory produced one
The cz 527 is fantastic for this project, modify the bottom of the action to accept whatever feeding device you’re using and your pretty much there.
As this and a couple other threads have proven there is a fair amount of interest in it, Im surprised no company has made a legit factory produced one
Oh and couple years in and mine is still a real hoot to shoot
Would actually prefer a small bolt action in 5.7x28, but it doesn't look like anyone else is thinking about it. 9mm might be a decent second place item.
I'm really surprised none of the OEM's has done a 9mm bolt gun at this point. Maybe at some point we'll see some more of the TCM guns or they'll really surprise us and make some in 9mm. It's just too small of a market unfortunately.
I wouldn’t call it a TURD. Maybe one lower case letter cause it is hard to find brass for it. There is some brass out there and you can load it as hot or not as you want.
I enjoyed shooting my Destroyer Carbine.
Gay as a $20 bill.
And another $20 bill a little while later.
(I’ll give you $40 for it.)
9mm and 45acp bolt action repeaters have been done in my shop. The 45 was first. I printed internals for a 308 AICS mag and used a 1911 mag spring to run it. The action was an SR3 and it was a ton of fun to shoot. We were messing with it one weekend on an E type at 400 yards. You could see the copper rainbowing downrange. I even used it one year to take a doe at my parents' house from ~45 yards with 230 grain Winchester PD ammo.
The 9mm was the same concept. I used 3D printed magazine internals, a Sig P228 mag spring, and a $45 9mm blank from Green Mountain. It's fun to shoot in my parrents back yard with 147 subs and a suppressor. It makes the same amount of noise as a suppressed 22 but it hits the steel plates harder and my sons enjoyed it more.
I still have the files and we can create more of them. The critical component is to use a 700 action with controlled round feed and a blade/inertial ejector like a Bighorn, Kelbly, ARC, etc.
I even posted it to the PVA instagram account back in 2019 or so and I have internal components for the 45 mags still. We could make more starting tomorrow.
The 9mm was the same concept. I used 3D printed magazine internals, a Sig P228 mag spring, and a $45 9mm blank from Green Mountain. It's fun to shoot in my parrents back yard with 147 subs and a suppressor. It makes the same amount of noise as a suppressed 22 but it hits the steel plates harder and my sons enjoyed it more.
I still have the files and we can create more of them. The critical component is to use a 700 action with controlled round feed and a blade/inertial ejector like a Bighorn, Kelbly, ARC, etc.
I even posted it to the PVA instagram account back in 2019 or so and I have internal components for the 45 mags still. We could make more starting tomorrow.
That's pretty cool. Can you give a breakdown on the pricing? I really wish one of the OEM's would make a 9mm bolt gun with an action designed from the ground up around it.
This thing didn’t exist back when this conversation all started, and I built mine, but this thing may fit the niche for a few guys in this genre. Not a bolt action, and don’t know the accuracy of a pof barrel, but it’s an option for guys out there. (Kinda want one, cause it’s so fugly)
Hey Bohem, I've got a Green Mountain blank in hand, for 9mm. Let us know what we need to source in parts to make this happen. Rem 700 pattern is great. I assume the bolt itself is a custom affair?
Sure thing, I'll work up some pricing for some 45 kits and look at what needs to be done to make the 9mm kits viable for sale.
One thing that I did which I don't know if guys will care to follow is that I used a Green Mountain blank back then, which was to keep prototyping costs down. I have L-W big bore blanks here which we can use today for a higher end quality which I would personally prefer since the PVA name is going on the outside of the barrel.
It's pretty much all custom except for the bolt actually. On the Origin, TL3's, Nucleus, etc with the proper ejector design we don't change the bolt at all. It's a barrel made for the action and then new guts for the magazine.
Here's the "DeLisle Project" IG posts I made from Aug 2019.
DeLisle Link
DeLisle Link 1
So us poors could feasibly do this on our TL3/Nuke actions for giggles with your (potential) mags and barrels?? Gonna bookmark this thread for 9mm reference. My mp5 is fun but if it's a mag and a barrel, my TL3 might be looking at another barrel in the rack.....already load DG 145s and speer 147s for problem solving.
Yes exactly. I made the 45 conversion originally because I wanted something like the Brit "DeLisle" guns but I couldn't pay for an original.
In 45 these all work for the action:
Bighorn Origin and TL3
ARC Nuke, Archimedes, and Mausingfield
Kelbly Atlas
In 9mm the Bighorn and ARC options work with 223 bolt faces. I don't know if the Atlas will do it or not.
Well, I already have TL3 and ARC actions that would be appropriate. Definitely following this thread. A 16in 9mm boltgun with subs through a pistol or subgun can would be silly quiet......
Bohem - you're about to create a whole new sport - PCB - Pistol Caliber Bolt. All of a sudden you can have awesome fun even if you only have access to a 200 meter range.
Of the TL3/Origin/Nucleus, which do you recommend? Because I'm going to buy one and get this project moving. Also - trying to get my Curtis 9mm working, I ended up printing mag shells to wrap a Glock 43 mag in. Didn't matter ultimately because his bolt wasn't reliably getting the round into the chamber, and after firing, the ejector wouldn't clear the cases because it was massively undersized.
Of the TL3/Origin/Nucleus, which do you recommend? Because I'm going to buy one and get this project moving. Also - trying to get my Curtis 9mm working, I ended up printing mag shells to wrap a Glock 43 mag in. Didn't matter ultimately because his bolt wasn't reliably getting the round into the chamber, and after firing, the ejector wouldn't clear the cases because it was massively undersized.
PCB... I like it. As long as we don't call it "NRL-Poacher"
The Bighorn products were easier to convert, the tweaking on the Nuke and ARC actions was a little more involved but none of them is particularly difficult.
I've got a few things going here but I'll make an effort to get the PCB kits put together and up on the website next week.
Does that have a Green Mountain Blank? That OD looks larger than the GM blanks?
Thanks
Yes, it was a “gunsmith raw” or something like that, after turning it down a touch to make the outer concentric it ended up at 1.175 straight
I would legitimately put on a half day WV Road Hunter class match for these. Three or four stages. At least one you have to start with an (empty) beer can in your hand, seated in the truck. On start, toss beer can through rear cab slider, retrieve rifle, engage targets through open window of truck cab.PCB... I like it. As long as we don't call it "NRL-Poacher"
The Bighorn products were easier to convert, the tweaking on the Nuke and ARC actions was a little more involved but none of them is particularly difficult.
I've got a few things going here but I'll make an effort to get the PCB kits put together and up on the website next week.
If you put this on I will not only attend the inaugural match but sponsor the prize table
I can make that happen
Fucking epic
Damn you all! You’re making me want one for a Nucleus.
What @4g64loser described could be my first match. Of course I would train with a non-empty beer can…
What @4g64loser described could be my first match. Of course I would train with a non-empty beer can…
Come down for some R&D on achievable target sizes and necessary reactivity once we get a few of these setups built. We used to do 22lr matches out to 400 or so.
Damn you all! You’re making me want one for a Nucleus.
What @4g64loser described could be my first match. Of course I would train with a non-empty beer can…
I'll be training with a six pack of group tighteners, too, but I can't be drinking when I'm at the actual range. Company policy.
