I have a savage that is about a year old with only a couple of hundred rounds threw it. I have had much trouble getting this rifle to the accuracy that I want. With other rifles I can stack three rounds ontop of eachother at 50yd and at 100 yd 1'' . These are mosins. With the savage I'm lucky to get 2 in groups. Most of the time its 3-4 and kinda hard to sight in. Things I was looking was inside the barrel really close to the muzzle on one side of the bore the copper fouling seemed to go to the muzzle but on the other side the barrel looks like its never been touched by a bullet about 1/7 in from the muzzle. Another thing it came with a crappy plastc stock with improper bedding . This is a savage 11 vt with a heavy barrel and should shoot better than my mosins. I will poast some pictures soon as soon as I figure out how for I am a new user.
- Thread starter Thresher96
- Start date
Clean it for starters. Yes it should shoot a Heck of a lot better than a nagant! What caliber, what ammo? Check bolts to make sure they are required properly. Check scope mount, rings and scope. What gear are you using?
But but the floating bolt head ... and all that other crap.
It happens it's a factory rifle, factory savage tube are pretty notorious for copper fouling extremely quickly, especially on new tubes. I'd run some copper cleaner through it, check all the screws torque, and shoot some match rounds, if it's still not under 1 moa talk to Savage.
Generally if it's over 1 moa they'll do something. But remember there is no accuracy guarantee.
It happens it's a factory rifle, factory savage tube are pretty notorious for copper fouling extremely quickly, especially on new tubes. I'd run some copper cleaner through it, check all the screws torque, and shoot some match rounds, if it's still not under 1 moa talk to Savage.
Generally if it's over 1 moa they'll do something. But remember there is no accuracy guarantee.
But all savages are tack drivers... Must be the shooter, no way it could be the rifle.
I've owned close to a dozen now and EVERY ONE OF THEM was...a tack driver...all less than an inch, most towards a half...some that way with factory ammo...
My advice...Buy a new bore brush and a good non metallic cleaning rod...some copper solvent...chamber a FIRED case...fill the bore with copper solvent and stand it up in the corner over night...
The next morning or after a 24 hour soak, tip it over and open the action to allow the solvent to drain..., working from the muzzle end proceed to wear the new bore brush out...a hundred passes minimum, in and out...a pass is, in to the chamber and back out...effectively stroking the bore 200 times...every 25 passes dip the brush in copper solvent, then run patches until clean...apply a fine coat of oil...hit the range AFTER tightening the stock screws, scope mount/rail and rings to spec. Buy a couple of boxes of PREMIUM ammo for your rifle in brands know for accuracy...buy several bullet weights as some barrels/calibers/twists don't like some weights...308 comes to mind...my 110FP in 308 loves 175 FGMM, hates 168's go figure...If that doesn't clear it up...call Savage and explain the steps you've taken to get it right...they will probably have you send it in...
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I just cleaned it using some sweets. But it is a .308 win and I was using some 150g win hog rounds next I am going to use some Fusion 165g rounds. I will try to find some match ammo but the selection in .308 ammo near me is slim. o and btw the scope on it is a nikon buckmaster 4.5-14 bran new. I was concerned about the inconsistent streaks around the muzzle one side seems like it makes contact while the other side looks untouched. It is possible it is me but I have gotten pretty good groups out of other rifles. I am trying to post some pictures.
The Fusion is good ammo...look for some FGMM 175...seems like a common pattern that Savage 308 love 175...my Savage 300WM loved 168 and 190, hated 175...the Nikon is a good scope...sounds like you had some serious copper fouling, not uncommon with a new gun...and BTW I've never gotten a 150 to shoot well in any of my 308 caliber , 30/06-308-300WM...none of them liked the 150
Could be a rough spot in bore causing the copper fouling. Order up some bore paste, some match ammo. Those rounds that you tried already should have given at least 1-1.5moa. Have you gone over the mounting hardware and action bolts?
You using a bipod? If it's got that crappy stock then you won't get accuracy with it from a bipod. Shoot if off bags. My Savage 10PC in 308 would shoot cloverleafs all day from the bags (I can hear the savage haters boiling right now but it's true I also own/have owned a great deal of $5k+ customs I just observe reality). Could be you got a bad barrel? I have never heard of a Savage shooting that poorly.
I have not yet but i will.
The bipod will really make a difference? Because i was using one? and the stock is kinda flimsy. I really its not the barrel.
It could be one or the other or both. Like I said my 10PC would not shoot under 1" from a bipod until I upgraded to a Bell & Carlson stock. I knew it wasn't anything to do with the receiver or the barrel because from bags it would do wonderful. When I changed the stock to the B&C it tightened right back up. I still got slightly better groups from the sandbags, but I attributed that to shooter error when using the bipod. It still shot .5MOA consistently and often better than that from a bipod with the new stock. Those cheap injection molded stocks are very flimsy and I feel they could be flexing and torquing in a way that hurts accuracy when a bipod is used.
I am trying to upload new picks of what im talking about around muzzle but its not letting me upload them.
And i will give that a try. I wanted to get a wooden stock for it anyway because i hate plastic stocks.
Don't do bolded part.... ever.
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What are you using the rifle for? Target shooting or hunting? If you aren't going to hunt with it much, you should check out those B&C's. It was a great stock. Aluminum pillar bedded and it's very rugged without being ridiculously heavy. I think you can get one for about $200 from Redhawkrifles. Mine was the Bell and Carlson Medalist A2 just make sure you know the action screw spacing if you order one. In any event, if you try shooting it off bags and take the bipod off the gun altogether you will at least be able to eliminate that variable.
I was going to use it for hunting but only from a stationary position. I was going to glass bed it an piller bed it with a boydes stock. I got it to get a gun that was better than my mosins that I could do a little precision shooting..
I had the same problem on two rifles in the past. Both were Nikon buckmaster scopes. One, I sent to hill country rifles. It wasn't till then that they told me it was a bad scope. If you have another scope to try out just to make sure, I would..
Its a bran new scope I changed b/c I thought it was the bushnell that I had. How recient was this. IM really suprised about the speed of these comments
I could try one of my prostaffs
I just shot my first Savage, and that was what I was thinking. might be the ammo or the shooter.Couldn't be the rifle.(@Josh, with humor, smiley face ). Don't feel bad. I bought a Browning X bolt, in 223. Supposed to be a "Special run of Varmint specials" I might be able to hit a groundhog , at 50 Yds.. Maybe. Tried 30 different load recipes, and it's still 1 in- 1 1/2, at 100. They must have really big varmints in Japan! Paid $950 for it............Crap........I was going to sell it, here............OOPS.
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Could be lots of things, but shooting off bags is a good idea. Twice I've had an accurate rifle throw rounds all over the place only to find out that the scope rings were loose. I now keep a Leupold scope/torque wrench in my range bag. Best of luck and if you figure it out (maybe it is the rifle) please let us know. It's not a bad idea to have a check list of items to methodically go through when accuracy goes out the window.
Next time I go out to the range I'm going to use one of my scopes off a workin gun not use my bypod and eventually get a new stock and bed ot properly. I wish I could get a pic of the barrel but it will not poast for some reason
What? Wear a new bore brush out cleaning the bore or stroking it from the muzzle end?
TRUE if your using a metal rod...DO SO ONLY WITH A NON METALLIC ROD...metal rod you work from the chamber end...you cannot damage the crown of a bore with a composite rod and doing so from the muzzle end will prevent copper solvent, bore solvent from getting into your action/receiver and stock...it is perfectly acceptable IMHO to brush from the muzzle end AS LONG AS YOUR USING A COMPOSITE or coated rod...I also place a small cotton cloth/rag or paper towel into the mag well to soak up any extra solvent...some solvents can/are detrimental to bedding especially in a wood stock where the solvent can permeate the wood under the bedding...
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Even composite or coated rod has enough metal on it to damage the crown.
Unless access to the chamber from the rear is restricted, there's no reason to clean from the muzzle end. Why risk it?
What composite rod has enough metal in it to damage SS or CM barrel crown? Possibly if you scraped off the coating on a coated rod exposing the steel core...Or are you referring to the metal in the brush? Brass, brass wire and an aluminum ferrell that binds it together? The same brass wire and aluminum thats soft enough for me to mar with a fingernail? Damage a Chrome Moly or SS barrel that typically has a hardness of 28-32 on the Rockwell C scale? Non anodized aluminum of which scores about a zilch.zero comparatively...I think we are over thinking this...maybe on a one off, hand lapped $5000 1000yd bench rest gun maybe...lets just agree that we disagree...
The scope problem I had was about 8-9 years ago. When I read your post it sounded familiar. The scopes were new when I had the issues also. It may not be the problem, but I thought I would mention it.
I just wad reading the review and everyone liked them but I have an extra nikon prostaff that I will try next time
Never had an issue...never had to replace a barrel due to a composite rod damaging a barrel...if your that freaked out about it a 12 gauge shot gun shell with the primer pocket removed makes a great bore guide for most heavy barrels, if not buy a bore guide...
Also...I've probably punched 10-15 miles of M14 bore from the muzzle end on a dozen or so issued USMC Rifle Team M14's running pretty high dollar Douglas barrels in my day...I guess I ruined all those barrels too...
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Just a question. But why 24hrs and minimum of 100 strokes? When I clean mine, only after my groups open up, it is like 5 wet patches, or till no more heavy brass on patch. Couple dry patches, light oil patch. This might be 200-500 or more rounds. Why strip all the copper out when it will be right back with the first shot? Seems draconian. But that is just my observation.
Wait, are you talking about Winchester Razorback ammo?
I thought my buddy's scope broke when we tried to sight-in with that crap - couldn't keep on paper!!!!
Try anything else - that'll fix it!!!!
I thought my buddy's scope broke when we tried to sight-in with that crap - couldn't keep on paper!!!!
Try anything else - that'll fix it!!!!
MoBoost said:First time at the range. Quite a bit of learning curve for my friend - first time with the rifle, first time at the range, first time on the benchrest (that doesn't fit the rifle LOL). With a bit of work we can shrink these in half.
Misc loads from books in no particular order - just getting used to it.
P.S. Two "ungrouped" rounds are Winchester Razorback XT - man, the rifle really didn't like those ....
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What the f^<£ kind of barrels are you using? I've never used more than about 10 patches to get my barrels clean. Granted I've never actually counted but it's not more than ten. I have a rock that has never seen a brush...don't need it. Is your bore like sand paper or what?
Always "that guy".....
Assuming that was pointed at me? Seriously it's a question. I shoot f class and see some rubbing vigorously on there bores. I don't and as far as I know from reading patches...don't need to.
I said run patches until clean...if it takes 3 then fine...if it takes 8-10 so be it...
Comparing your HAND LAPPED...EXTENSIVELY HAND LAPPED, POLISHED, HIGH DOLLAR PREMIUM ROCK BARREL to a stock Savage, probably badly copper fouled barrel is almost absurd...I was instructing him in how to absolutely beyond and shadow of a doubt remove every trace of copper fouling in his barrel using a tried and true method I learned in the Corp...
Its a a savage factory barrel. Its a heavy barrel. Do yal know if fusion ammo is any good. And about the winchester I think it was all I can remeber is it had a hog on it. I'm goimg to try different ammo first because I had a similar prob wit a savage mk ii 22. Turns out the ammo was th problem now I have gotten really good groupings.
While I have not tried it personally its my understanding that Fusion is GTG...if you can find some FGMM loclaly or online buy some...have not seen a Savage 308 yet that didnt like it...especially 175 BTHP
Lol. No... I meant the OCD barrel cleaners.
I mean with the barrel cleaners they have there thing and it probably works. I just don't have the time for that stuff and this barrel coppers really quickly. My rifle isn't caked in copper. And with that picture of the target I had an entire paper that looked like those two fliers. I noticed with that ammo is each of the bullets seemed to be seated a little different.
Does anyone know why i cant post pictures Im trying to give a good picture of the muzzle and a target that i got with a really good grouping that i can get to show that i don't think its me.
See how one side near the muzzle has streaks going all the way to the end of the barrel while the other side just a little bit back looks untouched. I don't know much about that stuff but i was wondering if that would be detrimental to accuracy. Or if any one can tell me if my crown is good or not. Im just trying to rule out all possibilities.
Those groupings were not from savage, I was just showing that i can shoot. And that was 50yds three round groups with a heavly modified mosin nagant and results continue out to 100yd. I just want to be able to to this with my savage.
Definitely looks copper fouled...if it were me...I'd scrub the piss out of it and verify everything is locked down correctly and try some different ammo..and yes...the heavy fouling on one side of the barrel can affect accuracy...think about it this way...two good tires on the front, one bald one on the rear...one good one...hit the brakes...it yaws to the good side, slides on the bad...same idea here...
Ya i know I was wondering why and i have ran many patches trough and it still has these streaks. I don't know why it streaks more on that side than the other.
A PATCH will not remove copper fouling...only a good solvent and a good bore brush...a patch is for wiping/mopping up the residue and getting it clean...burn some eggs on a non coated bare steel skillet...are you gonna use a paper towel or a brush or nylon scratchy pad after a soak in Dawn and hot water...? Let it soak with some Sweets 762 or other copper solvent and literally run a new bore brush thru it till you wear it out...it will take about 100 in and out strokes to wear one out...I've got a mason jar half full of them on my bench...once they are worn out I can use some of them on a 243...after that trash...
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I know many guys here that don't even own a bore brush. i use one in my revolvers because of lead bullets. but 100 stroke minimum on a rifle barrel with a brush? why remove all the copper? it will be right back there with the first few shots. I highly advise against this. but do what you will.
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