Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

[mattmcg]

Fellas,

Could use your help on this one. I'm beginning load development for a new 243 Win bolt action to shoot the 115gr DTACs. I've been running Quickload to get some suggested powders and see that the Alliant Reloader 25 and Vihtavuori N560 seem to fit the bill well. I'm trying to select which one to test out first and would appreciate any pro's and con's to each powder.

I know that there are quite a few here that have used RL25 but the N560 isn't as compressed of a load and seems to eek out a bit more velocity at a slightly lower pressure with the Quickload estimates.

Here's my QL data for reference:
Loads calculated with a 3050fps target velocity, 27.5" barrel, OAL 2.860".

Powder------------------Fill%---Velocity----Psi----PropBurnt%--BarrelTime
Alliant Reloader 25-----106----3050------60397--100---------1.312
Vihtavuori N560---------100----3050------60012--99.4--------1.320

Both were right at the 60191psi limit and meant as fast loads. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jasmck]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

I am using 47.5 grains of RE25 with 115 DTACS and Moly coated bullets. Works with the BN coated bullets too. Lapua Brass and Fed primers. I am getting about 2950 out of a 26" barrel.

James

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jasmck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am using 47.5 grains of RE25 with 115 DTACS and Moly coated bullets. Works with the BN coated bullets too. Lapua Brass and Fed primers. I am getting about 2950 out of a 26" barrel.</div></div>

Hmmm, I'm surprised that you aren't getting 3000fps+ on that load. I'm showing a Quickload estimate of 3013fps with the moly bullets and your 26" barrel. I've also seen similar shooters with that load exceed 3000fps.

Very interesting. When is the last time you chrono'd?

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

And for those running H4350, here is the data I see which is why I'm steering away from that powder.

Powder---------Fill%---Velocity----Psi----PropBurnt%--BarrelTime
H4350----------95----3050------66502--100---------1.266

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

FWIW, when I was in load development with my 243 and tested 47.5gr of Re25, Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primer, 115gr hBn DTAC @ 2.850" COAL, 27" bbl, I was getting right around 2980-3000fps. It left slight ejector swipe and sticky bolt that got worse when the barrel heated up. Wasn't fast enough for me so I switched to H1000. Not a whole lot faster, but less pressure and less temp sensitive. I'm using 47.5gr H1000 currently @ 3050fps with no pressure signs. This was all done at 65'ASL in 80-90*F temps.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

Regarding H4350...I had a very difficult time even reaching 3000fps with it. In fact, I'm not sure I did before pressure signs were WAY bad. I too, chose to go away from it. Thats when I tried first Re25 then H1000.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, when I was in load development with my 243 and tested 47.5gr of Re25, Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primer, 115gr hBn DTAC @ 2.850" COAL, 27" bbl, I was getting right around 2980-3000fps. It left slight ejector swipe and sticky bolt that got worse when the barrel heated up. Wasn't fast enough for me so I switched to H1000. Not a whole lot faster, but less pressure and less temp sensitive. I'm using 47.5gr H1000 currently @ 3050fps with no pressure signs. This was all done at 65'ASL in 80-90*F temps. </div></div>

That's very interesting. I guess you are compressing that load a bit. I looked at it but given the data below, thought case capacity would begin to be an issue.

Powder---------Fill%---Velocity----Psi----PropBurnt%--BarrelTime
H1000----------110----3050------62579--99.9---------1.284

The above was using 48.7gr of powder. Your 47.5gr choice looks like it would run at 2972fps and 57,016psi in Quickload's estimation. Might be worth a look!

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

It is definitely a full case. I've thought about trying H4831SC but I stayed with the theory of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! It is a good shooting load out to 800m in my rifle (maybe further...don't have a facility to test).

I did try 48.0gr H1000 but that was too compressed for my comfort level. Also, after shooting a couple of them at that charge some showed ejector swipe. Not bad ejector swipe, but with the realization that temps here can at times exceed 100*, I chose to stay at 47.5gr. The lower charge was also more accurate.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your 47.5gr choice looks like it would run at 2972fps and 57,016psi in Quickload's estimation. Might be worth a look!</div></div>

That was another reason I looked to H1000 was lower pressure. Hopefully gets me a little more bbl life.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've thought about trying H4831SC but I stayed with the theory of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! </div></div>

Probably a good decision. The H4831SC doesn't look to provide as much speed at equivalent pressure for H1000.

 

[esorensen]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

Retumbo anyone? I got better es/sd numbers with the H1000, but over 100 fps better with the retumbo and same accuracy to boot. Stick with the RL 25 and watch out for pressure increases with temp increase and you'll be fine.

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

Unfortunately Retumbo takes up too much usable case capacity and after running into the maximum, you don't approach velocities of over 2950fps.

Here's the data
48.6gr of usable case capacity (estimated)
48.6gr of Retumbo, 2950fps @ 51,316 psi and 108% fill percentage!

While that may make for a long barrel life, there are better powders for this type of load. The Retumbo load is too slow and too compressed for my liking.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

You say Retumbois to compressed and to slow. Not trying to be an ass here but have you tryed it. Quick load is not the be all end all to reloading. You need to find what your gun likes. I would start with either RL 25 or H 1000. Work up until you get a load that works or get pressure. I shoot a 308 with a 175 SMK 46.5 to 47Gr RL 15 what does quickload say about that load. Find what your gun likes quickload cant do that <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately Retumbo takes up too much usable case capacity and after running into the maximum, you don't approach velocities of over 2950fps.

Here's the data
48.6gr of usable case capacity (estimated)
48.6gr of Retumbo, 2950fps @ 51,316 psi and 108% fill percentage!

While that may make for a long barrel life, there are better powders for this type of load. The Retumbo load is too slow and too compressed for my liking. </div></div>

 

[DocB]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

Hazardus,

I've used the N-560 with the DTACs for a long time with good results. Very clean burning, good velocity, very accurate. I've had my best results with WLR primers. Somewhat expensive, and your 40 degree load is not one you'll want to use at 100 degrees. I haven't tried the RL-25.

HTH,
DocB

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You say Retumbois to compressed and to slow. Not trying to be an ass here but have you tryed it. Quick load is not the be all end all to reloading. You need to find what your gun likes. I would start with either RL 25 or H 1000. Work up until you get a load that works or get pressure. I shoot a 308 with a 175 SMK 46.5 to 47Gr RL 15 what does quickload say about that load. Find what your gun likes quickload cant do that </div></div>

Oh I'm with you Nesikabay, which is why I'm appreciating the comments and feedback from real-world world users. Yes, QL is only a tool to whittle things down to see what's possible and then go from there. And no I haven't tried Retumbo but given the raw data at this point I think your suggestion of the H1000 or RL25 seems to be a bit better for testing at this point. If those don't work, I'll expand my testing further.....

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hazardus,

I've used the N-560 with the DTACs for a long time with good results. Very clean burning, good velocity, very accurate. I've had my best results with WLR primers. Somewhat expensive, and your 40 degree load is not one you'll want to use at 100 degrees. I haven't tried the RL-25.

HTH,
DocB </div></div>

Thanks DocB. I have also been concerned with the expense and temperature sensitivity to N560. Sounds like you've got some experience with that that tells you a sixty degree swing will be an issue?

I read about other users complaining often about RL25's temp sensitivity. At this point, I'm thinking the H1000 may just be the best all-around option at this point given the data.

 

[DocB]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

Hazardus,

I tend to load hot, so a sixty degree temperature swing is going to be a concern with any powder. Accuracy will suffer if the swing is a drop, I'll suffer if it is a rise. You've got QL, so do your pressure experiments at different temperatures for a powder with QL. You can keep your rifle in tune if you know which way to bump the charge, and 20-30 degrees will make a difference.

As for velocity, I'll take 3150f/s over 2950f/s any day. It makes a difference at 1k. I've tried 4831, 7228, 4350, RS Magnum, and N-170. The N-170 was too slow, Magnum wasn't accurate, and the rest were slow.

Do some testing, and listen to what your rifle tells you. Shoot at least one long string with what looks like your rifles favorite powder, 150+ rounds before cleaning to see where accuracy goes to pot.

HTH,
DocB

 

[bigjohnintexas]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

After much research on this round, I bought a GAP 243 that was George Gardner's personal rifle when it became available. As posted on 6mmbr.com, George told me that he was using, "47.5 grains of RL 25, 2.945 OAL, this is 3130-3150FPS" I haven't shot it yet, but I also don't have any doubts coming from him. That's with Moly bullets.

Also a place for load info on this cartridge: http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

 

[wfv56]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

What does quick load show with VV-160 and a D-Tac. Bill

 

[swerv512]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

can someone do a quickload for 243win and IMR 4064- i know it's not the best powder out there (too temperature dependent, my empirical data already proves this), but i have too much layign around... thanks.

 

[carsonpass]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

Just to give a bit of insight to my recent project to determine what would shot well in a new .243 7.5 twist Remington rifle I jsut had built to shoot the 115g. dtac boron coated bullet, mine has a 27 3/4" barrel, I wanted to stay near 3,000 fps, 45g of Reloader 25 is giving me 2,980 fps at 4,600 feet of elevation this weekend in Utah, H4350 performed similarly with 41g. but the RL-25 produced better groups, my last group at 200 yards had 4 rounds in less than .5" with one I pulled low and out of the group, I believe I will test the RL some more, from what I have read here from others is the RL may shoot at a cooler temp and lower presure, I would like to know if this is true or going with 4g less in the H4350 would be the better one to dial in, I am interested to know how your testing goes and how many grains it takes to achieve the 3,000 fps range, I may try the H1000 as well, good luck!

 

[steve123]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

Since you are experimenting,try R-17 and tell us what velocities you get.

I was getting 3120fps at 90 degrees with a 28" barrel with less than 40 grains in 6x47L.

Steve

 

[former naval person]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

My most accurate load with RL 25 and the DTAC moly coated was 2871 fps, 240 feet altitude and @90 degrees. I doubt that 0.8 gr. additional would kick it up to 3050. QL will get you in the ballpark, but you have to shoot and see. JMHO

 

[eddybo]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/RL25

I have been using 560 with the dtacs for a couple years now in my 243AI. I have not realized any very dramatic swings due to temperature sensitivity. When I load the 560 in my 6x47 my POI in the first string of a f-class match is the same as my POI on the third string of fire. Off the top of my head my load is around 46.6gr with velocity in the 3080 range with the 243AI. I did however see a big swing when changing lots of powder. I burn a lot of the 560 and usually end up buying 16 of the one pounders at a time. The last time I switched lots the new lot was a little faster. I had to drop down over a full grain in my 6x47 and nearly 2 grains in my 7wsm.

 

[raythemanroe]

Re: Advice needed for 243 Win loads w DTAC & N560/

what kind of load for the n560