Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
WOW. That is outstanding. Thanks for sharing.
WOW. That is outstanding. Thanks for sharing.
- Thread starter badshooter
- Start date
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Alright, I tried out my test loads. Didn't do any shooting for groups though as I couldn't get to my normal range so just went to a pistol shooting area. Was 40 degrees out and a little foggy. Both rifles were 18" gas guns.
223 loads I stopped at 26 grains with a 75bthp, new rem cases, CCI SR. Didn't see pressure signs and the velocities were okay but nothing to scream about. My accuracy load 24.3 varget at 2600fps, 26 of this stuff gave me a little more speed but there was a 60fps spread. Varget spread is like 20-30, hand thrown. I think for this to work in 223 w/75 you need to go to 27-28 and /or use a mag primer.
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 (and maybe 80-90 in 223 if you shoot those) but I wouldn't go for it unless you are really needing a bit more velocity over your standard loads and are using heavy bullets.
edit: I didn't do this as a test to find a new accuracy load, just to see how it performs for me vs. varget (what I usually use). So far it looks like 30-50fps difference over varget, with almost a 100fps difference with the 208's which is nuts.
Alright, I tried out my test loads. Didn't do any shooting for groups though as I couldn't get to my normal range so just went to a pistol shooting area. Was 40 degrees out and a little foggy. Both rifles were 18" gas guns.
223 loads I stopped at 26 grains with a 75bthp, new rem cases, CCI SR. Didn't see pressure signs and the velocities were okay but nothing to scream about. My accuracy load 24.3 varget at 2600fps, 26 of this stuff gave me a little more speed but there was a 60fps spread. Varget spread is like 20-30, hand thrown. I think for this to work in 223 w/75 you need to go to 27-28 and /or use a mag primer.
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 (and maybe 80-90 in 223 if you shoot those) but I wouldn't go for it unless you are really needing a bit more velocity over your standard loads and are using heavy bullets.
edit: I didn't do this as a test to find a new accuracy load, just to see how it performs for me vs. varget (what I usually use). So far it looks like 30-50fps difference over varget, with almost a 100fps difference with the 208's which is nuts.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Right on. Like I said the 208's have me interested, and if they prove to be 2400 consistently then that will best the 2500-2550fps 178 loads I was using.
Honestly, I wish I'd known about this stuff 6 months ago when I did my yearly varget + bullets order, I'd have gone with it as well as a bulk pack of nosler 190's instead. Considering how it performs with 208's I have no doubt that I could come up with a 190 load that flies as fast as my 178's for less $$$$$$ and goes farther too.
Right on. Like I said the 208's have me interested, and if they prove to be 2400 consistently then that will best the 2500-2550fps 178 loads I was using.
Honestly, I wish I'd known about this stuff 6 months ago when I did my yearly varget + bullets order, I'd have gone with it as well as a bulk pack of nosler 190's instead. Considering how it performs with 208's I have no doubt that I could come up with a 190 load that flies as fast as my 178's for less $$$$$$ and goes farther too.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
BCP,
i gotta say, i'm a lil disappointed with ur results. The posts by sagebrushshooter and carter mayfield led me to believe that the velocity gain over varget would be in the 100-150fps range.
I'm picking up my powder tomorrow, i'll load up some 178AMAx in my LR 308 and see what happens.
I will be shooting through two tubes, a 20" upper and a 16" upper, both are rifle length gas systems.
What sort of gas system (carbine, mid or rifle) do you have in your 18" AR?
Regards,
BCP,
i gotta say, i'm a lil disappointed with ur results. The posts by sagebrushshooter and carter mayfield led me to believe that the velocity gain over varget would be in the 100-150fps range.
I'm picking up my powder tomorrow, i'll load up some 178AMAx in my LR 308 and see what happens.
I will be shooting through two tubes, a 20" upper and a 16" upper, both are rifle length gas systems.
What sort of gas system (carbine, mid or rifle) do you have in your 18" AR?
Regards,
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
18" sass mid gas.
Re-reading my numbers I'd guess a 30-40fps gain over varget with 178's and around 70fps with 208's and none of those loads were overpressure. To me that's pretty good especially if like I said you just need a little bit more to get you to where you want to be. As an example I have to load max-max to be quasi-supersonic at 1k. With this powder I can be supersonic and not max-max. To me that makes it a "win".
18" sass mid gas.
Re-reading my numbers I'd guess a 30-40fps gain over varget with 178's and around 70fps with 208's and none of those loads were overpressure. To me that's pretty good especially if like I said you just need a little bit more to get you to where you want to be. As an example I have to load max-max to be quasi-supersonic at 1k. With this powder I can be supersonic and not max-max. To me that makes it a "win".
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
BCP,
Thanks for the response. I am a little confused by this post u made:
<span style="font-style: italic">"178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell"</span>
1. Can you please explain the above? Specifically, what the diff btw "over the chrono" and "at the range" numbers?
2. What were the atmospheric conditions you were working with?
3. What elevation are you in?
4. Per Hogdon's website, the max load & corresponding velocity with varget & 175SMK is 48gr & 2690fps. Assuming the numbers hold for the 178AMAX, you are reporting a max speed of 2530-2570(not sure what you're reporting, sorry), then your velocity loss per inch is (26.7fps- 20fps). How would you estimate your muzzle velocity so that you can compare velocity loss due to the short barrel for 2000MR?
I must admit, i'm a velocity whore...i wanna be able to shoot 155AMAX out to 1,000yds out of a 16" AR at sea level.
Regards
Regards,
BCP,
Thanks for the response. I am a little confused by this post u made:
<span style="font-style: italic">"178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell"</span>
1. Can you please explain the above? Specifically, what the diff btw "over the chrono" and "at the range" numbers?
2. What were the atmospheric conditions you were working with?
3. What elevation are you in?
4. Per Hogdon's website, the max load & corresponding velocity with varget & 175SMK is 48gr & 2690fps. Assuming the numbers hold for the 178AMAX, you are reporting a max speed of 2530-2570(not sure what you're reporting, sorry), then your velocity loss per inch is (26.7fps- 20fps). How would you estimate your muzzle velocity so that you can compare velocity loss due to the short barrel for 2000MR?
I must admit, i'm a velocity whore...i wanna be able to shoot 155AMAX out to 1,000yds out of a 16" AR at sea level.
Regards
Regards,
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
5k feet, not really humid, cheaper chronos aren't exact. I know because after shooting over my chrono, using calculators etc I was almost a foot higher at 600 than I should have been if my math was right (and I know my scope tracks). That's why I say I won't know for sure until I start using it. Just shooting a dozen over a chrono doesn't really tell me anything other than ballpark velocity.
155amax? I don't know anyone using them although I think I saw load data for it out of a 300wm somewhere. A lot of guys seem to use the 155scenar and a lot more seem to use 175smk and 178amax so I would go with those. Best of luck to you.
edit: hodgdon's speed is hodgdon's speed, not yours mine or anyone else'. You may get proportionately more or less. Really the only thing to be gleaned from load book data is 1) which powder showed the most potential velocity for them and 2) where they found their maximum load.
5k feet, not really humid, cheaper chronos aren't exact. I know because after shooting over my chrono, using calculators etc I was almost a foot higher at 600 than I should have been if my math was right (and I know my scope tracks). That's why I say I won't know for sure until I start using it. Just shooting a dozen over a chrono doesn't really tell me anything other than ballpark velocity.
155amax? I don't know anyone using them although I think I saw load data for it out of a 300wm somewhere. A lot of guys seem to use the 155scenar and a lot more seem to use 175smk and 178amax so I would go with those. Best of luck to you.
edit: hodgdon's speed is hodgdon's speed, not yours mine or anyone else'. You may get proportionately more or less. Really the only thing to be gleaned from load book data is 1) which powder showed the most potential velocity for them and 2) where they found their maximum load.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Thanks BCP. No offense was implied or intended by my post. I'm new to reloading, my chorono is brand new (CED Millenium), so i'm trying to learn from others' experience.
If i understand correctly, you are essentially saying that your chrono gives you readings that are lower than actual, and that by shooting your bullet at various distances and measuring drops can you back-calculate the real muzzle velocity. You also cite an example of being almost a foot high at 600yards wereas you'd be dead on if the chrono number was accurate. Is this a fair conclusion?
I agree with your sentiments about Hogdon's or any other manf's published data...the vagaries of internal barrel imperfections often serve to wreak havoc on muzzle velocity assumptions.
The reason i'm leaning towards the 155AMAX is because i'd like to combine a bullet light enough and with sufficiently high BC to do double duty as plinker and hunting bullet out of a 16" AR.
Thanks again for your info...its a very valuable data point.
Regards,
Thanks BCP. No offense was implied or intended by my post. I'm new to reloading, my chorono is brand new (CED Millenium), so i'm trying to learn from others' experience.
If i understand correctly, you are essentially saying that your chrono gives you readings that are lower than actual, and that by shooting your bullet at various distances and measuring drops can you back-calculate the real muzzle velocity. You also cite an example of being almost a foot high at 600yards wereas you'd be dead on if the chrono number was accurate. Is this a fair conclusion?
I agree with your sentiments about Hogdon's or any other manf's published data...the vagaries of internal barrel imperfections often serve to wreak havoc on muzzle velocity assumptions.
The reason i'm leaning towards the 155AMAX is because i'd like to combine a bullet light enough and with sufficiently high BC to do double duty as plinker and hunting bullet out of a 16" AR.
Thanks again for your info...its a very valuable data point.
Regards,
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright, I tried out my test loads. Didn't do any shooting for groups though as I couldn't get to my normal range so just went to a pistol shooting area. Was 40 degrees out and a little foggy. Both rifles were 18" gas guns.
223 loads I stopped at 26 grains with a 75bthp, new rem cases, CCI SR. Didn't see pressure signs and the velocities were okay but nothing to scream about. My accuracy load 24.3 varget at 2600fps, 26 of this stuff gave me a little more speed but there was a 60fps spread. Varget spread is like 20-30, hand thrown. I think for this to work in 223 w/75 you need to go to 27-28 and /or use a mag primer.
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 (and maybe 80-90 in 223 if you shoot those) but I wouldn't go for it unless you are really needing a bit more velocity over your standard loads and are using heavy bullets.
edit: I didn't do this as a test to find a new accuracy load, just to see how it performs for me vs. varget (what I usually use). So far it looks like 30-50fps difference over varget, with almost a 100fps difference with the 208's which is nuts. </div></div>
A couple things, 1) I am really surprised at the nominal gains in velocity you're getting over Varget, and 2) I don't think the CCI primers are an issue, I did most of my load workups mid-winter 30-40F and I exclusively used CCI BR-2's. Never had an issue. I'm still mulling over what this data is telling us about the pressure curve of this powder, but my initial feeling is that it might be a flat curve powder like the one from St. Marks in the Hornady Superformance ammunition. This would make sense and fall in line with it not yielding a significant gain in velocity in a shorter barrel. A longer barrel would give that flat pressure curve more time to push on the bullet giving it a greater amount of acceleration over standerd curve powders like Varget. But it seems you might need a longer tube to take advantage of this pressure characteristic as a short barrel will not give this curve enough time to make any noticable velocity gains over standard powders. Still chewing on this, just my 2 cents...
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright, I tried out my test loads. Didn't do any shooting for groups though as I couldn't get to my normal range so just went to a pistol shooting area. Was 40 degrees out and a little foggy. Both rifles were 18" gas guns.
223 loads I stopped at 26 grains with a 75bthp, new rem cases, CCI SR. Didn't see pressure signs and the velocities were okay but nothing to scream about. My accuracy load 24.3 varget at 2600fps, 26 of this stuff gave me a little more speed but there was a 60fps spread. Varget spread is like 20-30, hand thrown. I think for this to work in 223 w/75 you need to go to 27-28 and /or use a mag primer.
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 (and maybe 80-90 in 223 if you shoot those) but I wouldn't go for it unless you are really needing a bit more velocity over your standard loads and are using heavy bullets.
edit: I didn't do this as a test to find a new accuracy load, just to see how it performs for me vs. varget (what I usually use). So far it looks like 30-50fps difference over varget, with almost a 100fps difference with the 208's which is nuts. </div></div>
A couple things, 1) I am really surprised at the nominal gains in velocity you're getting over Varget, and 2) I don't think the CCI primers are an issue, I did most of my load workups mid-winter 30-40F and I exclusively used CCI BR-2's. Never had an issue. I'm still mulling over what this data is telling us about the pressure curve of this powder, but my initial feeling is that it might be a flat curve powder like the one from St. Marks in the Hornady Superformance ammunition. This would make sense and fall in line with it not yielding a significant gain in velocity in a shorter barrel. A longer barrel would give that flat pressure curve more time to push on the bullet giving it a greater amount of acceleration over standerd curve powders like Varget. But it seems you might need a longer tube to take advantage of this pressure characteristic as a short barrel will not give this curve enough time to make any noticable velocity gains over standard powders. Still chewing on this, just my 2 cents...
-SBS
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
SBS,
BCP also indicated that his chrono sometimes reads low...so there may be another variable that we all need to account for.
I agree with your sentiments on the pressure curve being somewhat like superformance, however, impressive results are reported with shorter barrels in factory loaded Hornady superformance ammo. Granted, people report velocities at the lower end of Hornady's superformance marketing literature (100-120fps range)in 308s, so the flatter longer curve still manifests itself in shorter barrels.
I may just be grasping at straws tho...i think i need to face the fact that i can't turn my 16" barrel AR into a 20" upper as far as velocity is concerned.
SBS,
BCP also indicated that his chrono sometimes reads low...so there may be another variable that we all need to account for.
I agree with your sentiments on the pressure curve being somewhat like superformance, however, impressive results are reported with shorter barrels in factory loaded Hornady superformance ammo. Granted, people report velocities at the lower end of Hornady's superformance marketing literature (100-120fps range)in 308s, so the flatter longer curve still manifests itself in shorter barrels.
I may just be grasping at straws tho...i think i need to face the fact that i can't turn my 16" barrel AR into a 20" upper as far as velocity is concerned.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I hope to shoot some this weekend... hopefully, with a chrony so I can get some SD's out there. I will also have my Varget / 175 SMK accuracy load side-by-side for a true comparison.
I am trying to get a lot done. I hope I can fit it in.
I hope to shoot some this weekend... hopefully, with a chrony so I can get some SD's out there. I will also have my Varget / 175 SMK accuracy load side-by-side for a true comparison.
I am trying to get a lot done. I hope I can fit it in.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SBS,
BCP also indicated that his chrono sometimes reads low...so there may be another variable that we all need to account for.
I agree with your sentiments on the pressure curve being somewhat like superformance, however, impressive results are reported with shorter barrels in factory loaded Hornady superformance ammo. Granted, people report velocities at the lower end of Hornady's superformance marketing literature (100-120fps range)in 308s, so the flatter longer curve still manifests itself in shorter barrels.
I may just be grasping at straws tho...i think i need to face the fact that i can't turn my 16" barrel AR into a 20" upper as far as velocity is concerned. </div></div>
I think you covered all the bases. 1) There could definitely be variables we're missing or are not accounting for, and 2) at the end of the day, a 16" tube just ain't gonna give the same performance characteristics as a 20+" tube.
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SBS,
BCP also indicated that his chrono sometimes reads low...so there may be another variable that we all need to account for.
I agree with your sentiments on the pressure curve being somewhat like superformance, however, impressive results are reported with shorter barrels in factory loaded Hornady superformance ammo. Granted, people report velocities at the lower end of Hornady's superformance marketing literature (100-120fps range)in 308s, so the flatter longer curve still manifests itself in shorter barrels.
I may just be grasping at straws tho...i think i need to face the fact that i can't turn my 16" barrel AR into a 20" upper as far as velocity is concerned. </div></div>
I think you covered all the bases. 1) There could definitely be variables we're missing or are not accounting for, and 2) at the end of the day, a 16" tube just ain't gonna give the same performance characteristics as a 20+" tube.
-SBS
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys have your thinking caps on. That's a good thing. I'll just throw this out there:
The pressure-time curve for this powder indicates a reasonable sloped plateau (not flat plateau), and it's on the left side of the curve. Thus, there's a constant gas generation rate increase before max pressure. This curve would be witnessed with a 175 grain bullet. Use a 155-ish grain bullet, and the curve would change to almost a flat plateau.
You'll reach p-max at about 3-4, maybe 5 inches of barrel travel. After that, it's all "adiabatic expansion". Very little powder is left over after p-max, so very little burns after p-max. That means that given a 16" or 20" barrel, the velocity gains/losses due to barrel length are not a function of how much more/less powder is burned, but rather how much time/distance the residual gas has opportunity to push on the back of the piston. </div></div>
"this powder indicates a reasonable sloped plateau (not flat plateau), and it's on the left side of the curve"
What lead you to this conclusion? Not arguing, just want a more in depth explanation. I have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering with an emphasis in Fluid Mechanics. If Pmax was reached at 4-5 inches into the barrel, how is the bullet continuing to accelerate if the pressure behind it is dropping or not staying constant as you say? Are you talking about a "pressure" vs "time in barrel" curve or a "velocity" vs "time in barrel" curve? It's been a long time since I've looked at anything like this in depth, but I love learning. The rest of your post makes sense to me in terms of the velocity being a function of the "time" the gas is exerting force on the bullet rather than a function of the max pressure itself, I'm just not sure the bullet can continue to accelerate if the pressure behind it is dropping. I really wish we had some curves to look at. If you could ellaborate further it would be much appreciated.
-SBS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys have your thinking caps on. That's a good thing. I'll just throw this out there:
The pressure-time curve for this powder indicates a reasonable sloped plateau (not flat plateau), and it's on the left side of the curve. Thus, there's a constant gas generation rate increase before max pressure. This curve would be witnessed with a 175 grain bullet. Use a 155-ish grain bullet, and the curve would change to almost a flat plateau.
You'll reach p-max at about 3-4, maybe 5 inches of barrel travel. After that, it's all "adiabatic expansion". Very little powder is left over after p-max, so very little burns after p-max. That means that given a 16" or 20" barrel, the velocity gains/losses due to barrel length are not a function of how much more/less powder is burned, but rather how much time/distance the residual gas has opportunity to push on the back of the piston. </div></div>
"this powder indicates a reasonable sloped plateau (not flat plateau), and it's on the left side of the curve"
What lead you to this conclusion? Not arguing, just want a more in depth explanation. I have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering with an emphasis in Fluid Mechanics. If Pmax was reached at 4-5 inches into the barrel, how is the bullet continuing to accelerate if the pressure behind it is dropping or not staying constant as you say? Are you talking about a "pressure" vs "time in barrel" curve or a "velocity" vs "time in barrel" curve? It's been a long time since I've looked at anything like this in depth, but I love learning. The rest of your post makes sense to me in terms of the velocity being a function of the "time" the gas is exerting force on the bullet rather than a function of the max pressure itself, I'm just not sure the bullet can continue to accelerate if the pressure behind it is dropping. I really wish we had some curves to look at. If you could ellaborate further it would be much appreciated.
-SBS
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
SBS,
I'm similarly interested in 1smalljohnson's last post...i need more details wrt the pressure curve and how it compares to Varget or RE-15...
As far as your question goes, just remember that its the pressure differential that's driving the bullet. That is to say that as long as the pressure behind the bullet is greater than the pressure in front of it (atmospheric pressure), the bullet will accelerate. As the pressure falls behind the bullet, the bullet doesn't accelerate as fast.
I'm just interested in how much work is lost by going from a 22" barrel to 16" barrel, so that i can figure out if its worth switching to this powder as my go to powder.
Regards,
SBS,
I'm similarly interested in 1smalljohnson's last post...i need more details wrt the pressure curve and how it compares to Varget or RE-15...
As far as your question goes, just remember that its the pressure differential that's driving the bullet. That is to say that as long as the pressure behind the bullet is greater than the pressure in front of it (atmospheric pressure), the bullet will accelerate. As the pressure falls behind the bullet, the bullet doesn't accelerate as fast.
I'm just interested in how much work is lost by going from a 22" barrel to 16" barrel, so that i can figure out if its worth switching to this powder as my go to powder.
Regards,
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SBS,
As far as your question goes, just remember that its the pressure differential that's driving the bullet. That is to say that as long as the pressure behind the bullet is greater than the pressure in front of it (atmospheric pressure), the bullet will accelerate. As the pressure falls behind the bullet, the bullet doesn't accelerate as fast.
</div></div>
I follow you. The RATE of acceleration is changing, but in absolute terms, the bullet is still accelerating with respect to it's position from the chamber end of the gun. Just at a different rate. Hmmm... I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm missing something here. If Pmax was reached 4-5 inches from breach, how is the bullet going to continue to accelerate with respect to that point in time, when the pressure behind it is falling with respect to Pmax? This has got something to do with gas volume, graduated 8 years ago... might be time to break out the books again LOL...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SBS,
As far as your question goes, just remember that its the pressure differential that's driving the bullet. That is to say that as long as the pressure behind the bullet is greater than the pressure in front of it (atmospheric pressure), the bullet will accelerate. As the pressure falls behind the bullet, the bullet doesn't accelerate as fast.
</div></div>
I follow you. The RATE of acceleration is changing, but in absolute terms, the bullet is still accelerating with respect to it's position from the chamber end of the gun. Just at a different rate. Hmmm... I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm missing something here. If Pmax was reached 4-5 inches from breach, how is the bullet going to continue to accelerate with respect to that point in time, when the pressure behind it is falling with respect to Pmax? This has got something to do with gas volume, graduated 8 years ago... might be time to break out the books again LOL...
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I shot it some more today (nothing to do this week, why not go to the range again). 48 grains was the load I focused on in my 308 and I compared it to my 2450fps 43.5varget load.
Top are 43.5varget, bottom 48 2000MR, like I said earlier CCI reg primers and 178amax:
As you can see there aren't any real noticeable differences when you look at the case heads yet the 2000mr ones made the same bullet go 100fps faster. The only thing I did notice is that a couple of them might show signs of gas bleeding past the primer but I didn't see any bolt swipe or heavy ejector marks so I'd call it good.
I'll definitely be buying more of it.
I shot it some more today (nothing to do this week, why not go to the range again). 48 grains was the load I focused on in my 308 and I compared it to my 2450fps 43.5varget load.
Top are 43.5varget, bottom 48 2000MR, like I said earlier CCI reg primers and 178amax:
As you can see there aren't any real noticeable differences when you look at the case heads yet the 2000mr ones made the same bullet go 100fps faster. The only thing I did notice is that a couple of them might show signs of gas bleeding past the primer but I didn't see any bolt swipe or heavy ejector marks so I'd call it good.
I'll definitely be buying more of it.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason i'm leaning towards the 155AMAX is because i'd like to combine a bullet light enough and with sufficiently high BC to do double duty as plinker and hunting bullet out of a 16" AR.
</div></div>
Lots of guys seem to hunt with the 168 and 178 amax, those would be my choices if you want to go that route. Same price as the 155's and they have higher ballistic coefficients.
When it comes to hunting I use 165nosler ballistic tips.
As far as this powder goes it won't make your 16" into a 24" but it's clean, affordable, accurate and the velocity is better than anything else I've used so far so I'd say it's worth a try.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The reason i'm leaning towards the 155AMAX is because i'd like to combine a bullet light enough and with sufficiently high BC to do double duty as plinker and hunting bullet out of a 16" AR.
</div></div>
Lots of guys seem to hunt with the 168 and 178 amax, those would be my choices if you want to go that route. Same price as the 155's and they have higher ballistic coefficients.
When it comes to hunting I use 165nosler ballistic tips.
As far as this powder goes it won't make your 16" into a 24" but it's clean, affordable, accurate and the velocity is better than anything else I've used so far so I'd say it's worth a try.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
BCP,
Sorry to be so persistent about this but I noticed that you are now saying that the 178AMAXs are 100fps faster with the 2000-MR as compared to your standard varget load?
Is this correct? Your Chrono backed this up?
If its true, then the velocity gain will transform my 16" upper into a 20" upper compared to regular powders.
I just picked up my batch of MR2000 powder...taking it out to the range tomorrow. Hopefully the chrono cooperates...
Thanks again for your input.
BCP,
Sorry to be so persistent about this but I noticed that you are now saying that the 178AMAXs are 100fps faster with the 2000-MR as compared to your standard varget load?
Is this correct? Your Chrono backed this up?
If its true, then the velocity gain will transform my 16" upper into a 20" upper compared to regular powders.
I just picked up my batch of MR2000 powder...taking it out to the range tomorrow. Hopefully the chrono cooperates...
Thanks again for your input.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot it some more today (nothing to do this week, why not go to the range again). 48 grains was the load I focused on in my 308 and I compared it to my 2450fps 43.5varget load.
Top are 43.5varget, bottom 48 2000MR, like I said earlier CCI reg primers and 178amax:
As you can see there aren't any real noticeable differences when you look at the case heads yet the 2000mr ones made the same bullet go 100fps faster. The only thing I did notice is that a couple of them might show signs of gas bleeding past the primer but I didn't see any bolt swipe or heavy ejector marks so I'd call it good.
I'll definitely be buying more of it.
</div></div>
Upper right and bottom second from the left, I am seeing some ejector marks. I am conservative, but that would scare me away from both loads. The bottom second from the left looks a little more than light. You are definitely above SAMMI with both loads.
Those loads do look similar in pressure either way, though, if you were looking for an apples-to-apples comparison.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot it some more today (nothing to do this week, why not go to the range again). 48 grains was the load I focused on in my 308 and I compared it to my 2450fps 43.5varget load.
Top are 43.5varget, bottom 48 2000MR, like I said earlier CCI reg primers and 178amax:
As you can see there aren't any real noticeable differences when you look at the case heads yet the 2000mr ones made the same bullet go 100fps faster. The only thing I did notice is that a couple of them might show signs of gas bleeding past the primer but I didn't see any bolt swipe or heavy ejector marks so I'd call it good.
I'll definitely be buying more of it.
</div></div>
Upper right and bottom second from the left, I am seeing some ejector marks. I am conservative, but that would scare me away from both loads. The bottom second from the left looks a little more than light. You are definitely above SAMMI with both loads.
Those loads do look similar in pressure either way, though, if you were looking for an apples-to-apples comparison.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Naw, those marks are typical of a gas gun (I get good brass life with that 43.5 load, usually 7-8 loadings). When you hit max-max that ejector mark will be very pronounced and when you go over it material will start to disappear from the case head. If you go past that, then the case head will start to grow. Not sure what happens after that but I'm guessing kaboom.
Naw, those marks are typical of a gas gun (I get good brass life with that 43.5 load, usually 7-8 loadings). When you hit max-max that ejector mark will be very pronounced and when you go over it material will start to disappear from the case head. If you go past that, then the case head will start to grow. Not sure what happens after that but I'm guessing kaboom.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Sorry... I thought that was a bolt action. My bad.
Sorry... I thought that was a bolt action. My bad.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BCP,
Sorry to be so persistent about this but I noticed that you are now saying that the 178AMAXs are 100fps faster with the 2000-MR as compared to your standard varget load?
</div></div>
Pretty much. Both of these loads I have here seem to be moderate ones. However I don't know that a max varget load will be 100fps behind a max load of this stuff. I think that's what the other guys are talking about when they say "plateau".
Right now I'm liking the fact that a moderate load of this stuff beats my hottest varget load. That's pretty damned good.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its true, then the velocity gain will transform my 16" upper into a 20" upper compared to regular powders.
</div></div>
no no no
It seems to be around 100fps faster than my varget load while being at what appears to be similar pressure. Beyond that I don't really know. I will know next week when I try 48.5 and 49 grain loads in comparison with my hot varget loads though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BCP,
Sorry to be so persistent about this but I noticed that you are now saying that the 178AMAXs are 100fps faster with the 2000-MR as compared to your standard varget load?
</div></div>
Pretty much. Both of these loads I have here seem to be moderate ones. However I don't know that a max varget load will be 100fps behind a max load of this stuff. I think that's what the other guys are talking about when they say "plateau".
Right now I'm liking the fact that a moderate load of this stuff beats my hottest varget load. That's pretty damned good.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If its true, then the velocity gain will transform my 16" upper into a 20" upper compared to regular powders.
</div></div>
no no no
It seems to be around 100fps faster than my varget load while being at what appears to be similar pressure. Beyond that I don't really know. I will know next week when I try 48.5 and 49 grain loads in comparison with my hot varget loads though.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, Ok. Remember, if the system is pressurized, then the gas is performing work upon the base of the bullet.
Here's another mind-bender: for each inch of travel of the bullet, you've got to generate more and more gas to keep the same pressure. Think about how that gas is generated, and what happens to the pressure when all the "fuel" is gone. </div></div>
Well, as long as there is still powder burning, more gas will be generated. This will continue to keep pressure relatively constant, which will continue to exert force on the bullet, which will cause it to continue to accelerate. Horrible sentence, but I think I'm following you now...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, Ok. Remember, if the system is pressurized, then the gas is performing work upon the base of the bullet.
Here's another mind-bender: for each inch of travel of the bullet, you've got to generate more and more gas to keep the same pressure. Think about how that gas is generated, and what happens to the pressure when all the "fuel" is gone. </div></div>
Well, as long as there is still powder burning, more gas will be generated. This will continue to keep pressure relatively constant, which will continue to exert force on the bullet, which will cause it to continue to accelerate. Horrible sentence, but I think I'm following you now...
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 </div></div>
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data. Both loads are compressed. I have not satisfied myself yet that these loads are up to scratch in other ways (I do have good accuracy though) but if we are looking at pure grunt they are up there
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
178 amax, 47-48gr, win case, CCI LR primer 2.8 coal. 48 was max with obvious signs on case head (UNSAFE), velocity over the chrono was 2540. Varget over the same chrono tops out at 2500ish, and on the range it's about 2530-50 so I would guess I was getting 2570fps but without shooting it and checking drops hard to tell. I also had 1 slow 48 that was 50fps below the others, perhaps due to a weak primer or maybe CCI regs are borderline too light for a 48 grain charge in this weather.
208 BTHP, LC brass, 43-44 grains, CCI LR primer 2.82 coal. 44 showed signs of pressure and was 2370-2390 over the chrono. Pretty good considering varget was 2300 and no slow primers, very consistent too. This one catches my interest the most.
In conclusion I think this powder is good for heavies in 308 </div></div>
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data. Both loads are compressed. I have not satisfied myself yet that these loads are up to scratch in other ways (I do have good accuracy though) but if we are looking at pure grunt they are up there
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data.</div></div>
RL17 is another powder I'd like to try, I hear it's temp sensitive though something that I can't stand. I shoot in areas that are 7-8k elevation 30-40degrees and then a week later at <1k ft 75degrees so I need a powder that is really stable which is why I use varget for everything. There's nothing more infuriating than developing a really good load only to find that two weeks later, when it's 30degrees warmer, that load is crap (ala TAC 223 loads).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data.</div></div>
RL17 is another powder I'd like to try, I hear it's temp sensitive though something that I can't stand. I shoot in areas that are 7-8k elevation 30-40degrees and then a week later at <1k ft 75degrees so I need a powder that is really stable which is why I use varget for everything. There's nothing more infuriating than developing a really good load only to find that two weeks later, when it's 30degrees warmer, that load is crap (ala TAC 223 loads).
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Just posting my experience with 2000...
Rifle: AI AE MKII, 20", AAC Cyclone
Brass: Hornady Match
Bullet: 175 Nosler CC, seated to 2.85 oal
Usually shoot: Above components with 44.5 grns of Varget (very accurate)
So, I started with 47.5 grns of 2000. Too much. Had pressure signs (ejector mark and slightly harder bolt lift). Still shot a few of these and the accuracy was poor. Opened up 5 round groups at 300 to around 3". My control group with the above load put 5 rounds in 1" right after shooting 3 groups with the 2000.
Attempt two: Backed down of course. Tried 45.5 and 46 grains of 2000. Much better. Running about the same as my Varget load (.5-.6 moa at 300). I have no idea what velocity I am getting. Going to load up more at 46 grns and break out a chrono. I was getting 2650 with the Varget. Looks like this might be right about the same with this charge weight.
I hope it works out. Very easy to throw this powder vs. weighing Varget.
Be safe,
Justin
Just posting my experience with 2000...
Rifle: AI AE MKII, 20", AAC Cyclone
Brass: Hornady Match
Bullet: 175 Nosler CC, seated to 2.85 oal
Usually shoot: Above components with 44.5 grns of Varget (very accurate)
So, I started with 47.5 grns of 2000. Too much. Had pressure signs (ejector mark and slightly harder bolt lift). Still shot a few of these and the accuracy was poor. Opened up 5 round groups at 300 to around 3". My control group with the above load put 5 rounds in 1" right after shooting 3 groups with the 2000.
Attempt two: Backed down of course. Tried 45.5 and 46 grains of 2000. Much better. Running about the same as my Varget load (.5-.6 moa at 300). I have no idea what velocity I am getting. Going to load up more at 46 grns and break out a chrono. I was getting 2650 with the Varget. Looks like this might be right about the same with this charge weight.
I hope it works out. Very easy to throw this powder vs. weighing Varget.
Be safe,
Justin
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Try seating them back a little, I hear the closer you get the rifling the more pressure you have. I ran them up to 49 grains at 2.8 with a 178 before I saw heavy bolt marks with 48 as my safe max.
Also, if anyone is interested you can get mk262 velocities w/77's and this powder. I was getting 2700 fps out of my 18" with 27 grains of it and accuracy wasn't too bad, about 1.5MOA (this rifle is at best a 1MOA gun). So it is definitely a viable 223 powder as well.
Try seating them back a little, I hear the closer you get the rifling the more pressure you have. I ran them up to 49 grains at 2.8 with a 178 before I saw heavy bolt marks with 48 as my safe max.
Also, if anyone is interested you can get mk262 velocities w/77's and this powder. I was getting 2700 fps out of my 18" with 27 grains of it and accuracy wasn't too bad, about 1.5MOA (this rifle is at best a 1MOA gun). So it is definitely a viable 223 powder as well.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Damnit BCP.
I've got a hunt this weekend. You need to quit messing around with the 223 crap and tell me what the accuracy load is with 178AMAX. LOL.
Seriously, though, i went out last weekend, however, i forgot to charge the IR battery pack on my Chrono, so i dint have a way to measure velocity. I opted to not shoot until i could measure the velocities of my loads.
I may load up 45gr Varget & 178AMAX seated to 2.80" and c wht that get me from my 20" & 16" upper and wait to test the 2000mr.
Damnit BCP.
I've got a hunt this weekend. You need to quit messing around with the 223 crap and tell me what the accuracy load is with 178AMAX. LOL.
Seriously, though, i went out last weekend, however, i forgot to charge the IR battery pack on my Chrono, so i dint have a way to measure velocity. I opted to not shoot until i could measure the velocities of my loads.
I may load up 45gr Varget & 178AMAX seated to 2.80" and c wht that get me from my 20" & 16" upper and wait to test the 2000mr.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
48 in win brass @ 2.8 was my best one.
If you're never loaded 45 varget before I wouldn't do it right off the bat, it may be too much for your rifle. You need to do some load development to figure out *your* load. Look up the OCW method, it works well.
If however you need a load NOW, my suggestion is 43.5 in win brass or 42.5 in LC/Federal. Primer shouldn't matter but I use CCI regs for everything. Both of those shoot well out of my rifles and are easy on brass.
48 in win brass @ 2.8 was my best one.
If you're never loaded 45 varget before I wouldn't do it right off the bat, it may be too much for your rifle. You need to do some load development to figure out *your* load. Look up the OCW method, it works well.
If however you need a load NOW, my suggestion is 43.5 in win brass or 42.5 in LC/Federal. Primer shouldn't matter but I use CCI regs for everything. Both of those shoot well out of my rifles and are easy on brass.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data.</div></div>
RL17 is another powder I'd like to try, I hear it's temp sensitive though something that I can't stand. I shoot in areas that are 7-8k elevation 30-40degrees and then a week later at <1k ft 75degrees so I need a powder that is really stable which is why I use varget for everything. There's nothing more infuriating than developing a really good load only to find that two weeks later, when it's 30degrees warmer, that load is crap (ala TAC 223 loads).</div></div>
yes that is my concern as well, but you get so much b/s about this stuff that I wanted to test it myself rather than accept the concern at face value.
what temp variation are you seeing with varget?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chanonry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been shooting RL17 24" 308 1:11 twist
180 smk gives 2750 fps
208 amax gives 2560 fps
Just some comparative data.</div></div>
RL17 is another powder I'd like to try, I hear it's temp sensitive though something that I can't stand. I shoot in areas that are 7-8k elevation 30-40degrees and then a week later at <1k ft 75degrees so I need a powder that is really stable which is why I use varget for everything. There's nothing more infuriating than developing a really good load only to find that two weeks later, when it's 30degrees warmer, that load is crap (ala TAC 223 loads).</div></div>
yes that is my concern as well, but you get so much b/s about this stuff that I wanted to test it myself rather than accept the concern at face value.
what temp variation are you seeing with varget?
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carter,
Data shows we're getting 0.85 foot/second change per degree, -20F to +160F.
</div></div>
Wow....nice!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carter,
Data shows we're getting 0.85 foot/second change per degree, -20F to +160F.
</div></div>
Wow....nice!
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I started at 26gr with 75 a-max and went up till 3000fps+ was achieved.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I started at 26gr with 75 a-max and went up till 3000fps+ was achieved.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I tried 25, 25.5 and 26 with 75 hornady and 25.5 was the best. No serious pressure signs. 25.5 was in the low 2600's out of my 18" so plenty fast enough.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I tried 25, 25.5 and 26 with 75 hornady and 25.5 was the best. No serious pressure signs. 25.5 was in the low 2600's out of my 18" so plenty fast enough.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Point being this powder dumps beautifully, you can run it thru a Dillon with no problem, the temperature sensitivity is very good, it's flash suppressed, and I'm betting the velocity/charge weight/pressure relationship outperforms RL-17. By the way, is there any published reload data for the 175 SMK with RL-17? Like I said, "I'm betting". However, I'd still like to see some published numbers! </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, what's up with the RL 17 in a .308? I'd like to see some comparable data against the 2000MR. Might anyone have data? Has anyone shot them both over a chronograph with the same load? Has anyone brought both up to pressure, then shot them for accuracy?
Maybe I need to do this..... </div></div>
Alliant's RL-17 loads with 150-180 gr. bullets:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=25&cartridge=80
Vs.
Alliant's 2000-MR loads:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=31&cartridge=80
2000-MR obviously outperforms RL17 with that weight of bullet. Where RL-17 shines in the 308, is when you get into the really heavy bullets (200+ gr.). Would 2000-MR still outperform RL-17 with a 208/210 grain bullet? Probably not... but 3000-LR or 4000-MR very well might...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Point being this powder dumps beautifully, you can run it thru a Dillon with no problem, the temperature sensitivity is very good, it's flash suppressed, and I'm betting the velocity/charge weight/pressure relationship outperforms RL-17. By the way, is there any published reload data for the 175 SMK with RL-17? Like I said, "I'm betting". However, I'd still like to see some published numbers! </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, what's up with the RL 17 in a .308? I'd like to see some comparable data against the 2000MR. Might anyone have data? Has anyone shot them both over a chronograph with the same load? Has anyone brought both up to pressure, then shot them for accuracy?
Maybe I need to do this..... </div></div>
Alliant's RL-17 loads with 150-180 gr. bullets:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=25&cartridge=80
Vs.
Alliant's 2000-MR loads:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=31&cartridge=80
2000-MR obviously outperforms RL17 with that weight of bullet. Where RL-17 shines in the 308, is when you get into the really heavy bullets (200+ gr.). Would 2000-MR still outperform RL-17 with a 208/210 grain bullet? Probably not... but 3000-LR or 4000-MR very well might...
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
208 amax was decent for me with this stuff but I had to use a lot of it...like to the point that when I shook the loaded cartridge I couldn't feel the powder moving around in there. When you're using a ball powder that's kind of disconcerting (was 46 grains win brass).
Like I said earlier if I didn't have a lot of varget I would use this stuff instead for 223/308/30-06.
208 amax was decent for me with this stuff but I had to use a lot of it...like to the point that when I shook the loaded cartridge I couldn't feel the powder moving around in there. When you're using a ball powder that's kind of disconcerting (was 46 grains win brass).
Like I said earlier if I didn't have a lot of varget I would use this stuff instead for 223/308/30-06.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5R milspec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I cannot remember but some how I came across a place at Alliants site to get a Reloaders guid.and the guid has the newer powders in it with loads useing the newer powders.but one thing seems to puzzel me about the newer powder you are asking about.in the new guid they show a pic list of all the powders they have and show a Power Pro 2000MR.but in the load part of the guid shows a Power Pro 2000LR.just which one is it MR or LR?or is this just a typo.
but this is something to work with.
150gn BTSP speer 51.5C
150gn Fusion 53.0C
165gn BTSP speer 50.0C
165gn TBBC speer 49.2C
165gn Fusion 51.0C
168gn HPBT 48.5C
175gn HPBT 47.7C
180gn Fusion 48.5c
now as said I hope this is the same powder as you are asking about.so use caution and make sure of my findings.this has all come from their Alliants reloading guid.just hope this helps you out. </div></div>
its a typo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5R milspec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I cannot remember but some how I came across a place at Alliants site to get a Reloaders guid.and the guid has the newer powders in it with loads useing the newer powders.but one thing seems to puzzel me about the newer powder you are asking about.in the new guid they show a pic list of all the powders they have and show a Power Pro 2000MR.but in the load part of the guid shows a Power Pro 2000LR.just which one is it MR or LR?or is this just a typo.
but this is something to work with.
150gn BTSP speer 51.5C
150gn Fusion 53.0C
165gn BTSP speer 50.0C
165gn TBBC speer 49.2C
165gn Fusion 51.0C
168gn HPBT 48.5C
175gn HPBT 47.7C
180gn Fusion 48.5c
now as said I hope this is the same powder as you are asking about.so use caution and make sure of my findings.this has all come from their Alliants reloading guid.just hope this helps you out. </div></div>
its a typo
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I tried 25, 25.5 and 26 with 75 hornady and 25.5 was the best. No serious pressure signs. 25.5 was in the low 2600's out of my 18" so plenty fast enough. </div></div>
Cool. What was your OAL? I need to load for mag length for a gas gun. 10.5" upper to be precise....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you guys have .223 loads can you post them please?
</div></div>
I tried 25, 25.5 and 26 with 75 hornady and 25.5 was the best. No serious pressure signs. 25.5 was in the low 2600's out of my 18" so plenty fast enough. </div></div>
Cool. What was your OAL? I need to load for mag length for a gas gun. 10.5" upper to be precise....
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Im hoping to receive my 243 ai soon. I have some of this powder, do yall think it will be worth trying out in a 243 ai, or should I stick with something else? Would the 3000 or 4000 be better?
Please share your thoughts.
Im hoping to receive my 243 ai soon. I have some of this powder, do yall think it will be worth trying out in a 243 ai, or should I stick with something else? Would the 3000 or 4000 be better?
Please share your thoughts.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
2.25 COAL.
2.25 COAL.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
Finally got around to testing out this powder in my sps aac sd. 20" 1:10".
I only tested two different charges.
48 gr power pro 2000mr
180 gr Accubond
2.810"
Virgin win brass
Federal 210m
Average velocity-2628 fps
I didn't get a good group from this. About 2" at 100 yards. No visible pressure signs but bolt was sticky.
48.3 gr power pro 2000mr
180 gr accubond
2.810"
Virgin win brass
Federal 210m
Average velocity 2652 fps
About 1.5" at 100 yards. No visible pressure signs but bolt was sticky.
I also wanted to test out another hunting load.
42.5 gr TAC
180 gr accubond
2.810"
Once fired Win brass, neck sized.
Federal 210m
Average velocity-2528 fps
Shot a little less than .5" at 100 yards.
My match load is a 175 smk with varget running about 2575 fps. The power pro loads are the fastest loads I've shot through my rifle. Anyone else have any luck with 180 gr bullets above 2650 fps in an sps aac sd? I sure would like a sub moa elk load that is pushing 2700 fps.
Finally got around to testing out this powder in my sps aac sd. 20" 1:10".
I only tested two different charges.
48 gr power pro 2000mr
180 gr Accubond
2.810"
Virgin win brass
Federal 210m
Average velocity-2628 fps
I didn't get a good group from this. About 2" at 100 yards. No visible pressure signs but bolt was sticky.
48.3 gr power pro 2000mr
180 gr accubond
2.810"
Virgin win brass
Federal 210m
Average velocity 2652 fps
About 1.5" at 100 yards. No visible pressure signs but bolt was sticky.
I also wanted to test out another hunting load.
42.5 gr TAC
180 gr accubond
2.810"
Once fired Win brass, neck sized.
Federal 210m
Average velocity-2528 fps
Shot a little less than .5" at 100 yards.
My match load is a 175 smk with varget running about 2575 fps. The power pro loads are the fastest loads I've shot through my rifle. Anyone else have any luck with 180 gr bullets above 2650 fps in an sps aac sd? I sure would like a sub moa elk load that is pushing 2700 fps.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I did a little testing with some 2000MR this past weekend. I was happy with the results. The one thing I noticed was that in my rifle the hotter the load the better the group.
Test rifle
Savage model 10 308
24" bbl
175 SMK 5 rounds each
46.2gr, 46.7gr, 47.2gr
When I get some more of the powder I plan to work up in .3gr increments to see if I can get them even tighter.
The results on the 155A-Maxs I tested were not as good. Will do some more work with these as well when I get some more powder. I think I need to push them a little harder for better results.
155 Hornady Amax
51gr, 51.5gr, 52gr
My 52gr target was shot to hell by some prick with a SKS at my range. It was slightly better than the 51.5 target.
I did a little testing with some 2000MR this past weekend. I was happy with the results. The one thing I noticed was that in my rifle the hotter the load the better the group.
Test rifle
Savage model 10 308
24" bbl
175 SMK 5 rounds each
46.2gr, 46.7gr, 47.2gr
When I get some more of the powder I plan to work up in .3gr increments to see if I can get them even tighter.
The results on the 155A-Maxs I tested were not as good. Will do some more work with these as well when I get some more powder. I think I need to push them a little harder for better results.
155 Hornady Amax
51gr, 51.5gr, 52gr
My 52gr target was shot to hell by some prick with a SKS at my range. It was slightly better than the 51.5 target.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
BrettSass,
Did you happen to get any chrono data for the 175 & 155 loads you shot?
BrettSass,
Did you happen to get any chrono data for the 175 & 155 loads you shot?
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
47.2grains is very impressive in your rifle! I have some of that powder... I need to get to work on some loads!
47.2grains is very impressive in your rifle! I have some of that powder... I need to get to work on some loads!
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did a little testing with some 2000MR this past weekend. I was happy with the results. The one thing I noticed was that in my rifle the hotter the load the better the group.
Test rifle
Savage model 10 308
24" bbl
175 SMK 5 rounds each
46.2gr, 46.7gr, 47.2gr
When I get some more of the powder I plan to work up in .3gr increments to see if I can get them even tighter.
The results on the 155A-Maxs I tested were not as good. Will do some more work with these as well when I get some more powder. I think I need to push them a little harder for better results.
155 Hornady Amax
51gr, 51.5gr, 52gr
My 52gr target was shot to hell by some prick with a SKS at my range. It was slightly better than the 51.5 target. </div></div>
I never had much luck with the 155 out of my Savage either. Unlike the SMK its pretty finicky about seating depth.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did a little testing with some 2000MR this past weekend. I was happy with the results. The one thing I noticed was that in my rifle the hotter the load the better the group.
Test rifle
Savage model 10 308
24" bbl
175 SMK 5 rounds each
46.2gr, 46.7gr, 47.2gr
When I get some more of the powder I plan to work up in .3gr increments to see if I can get them even tighter.
The results on the 155A-Maxs I tested were not as good. Will do some more work with these as well when I get some more powder. I think I need to push them a little harder for better results.
155 Hornady Amax
51gr, 51.5gr, 52gr
My 52gr target was shot to hell by some prick with a SKS at my range. It was slightly better than the 51.5 target. </div></div>
I never had much luck with the 155 out of my Savage either. Unlike the SMK its pretty finicky about seating depth.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
As with any propellant, there is an area where it should and should not operate. Be sure you're in a safe place for pressure.
As with any propellant, there is an area where it should and should not operate. Be sure you're in a safe place for pressure.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I have a pound on order. I'll try it with 155 & 175 VLD's. I can't wait.
I have a pound on order. I'll try it with 155 & 175 VLD's. I can't wait.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I have no chrony data for the 2000MR yet. I am shooting a comp on sat and will verify what speed we think it is and let everyone know. I am inpressed at the accuracy of this powder. I plan to keep working up as soon as I get this match behind me and get a little time to hit the local range. Even if 47.2 gr is getting me 2650 - 2700 I am happy with the accuracy I am getting. I get the same accuracy out of the 155s but have to use varget. 46.3 gr if my memory serves me right. I will update soon.
I have no chrony data for the 2000MR yet. I am shooting a comp on sat and will verify what speed we think it is and let everyone know. I am inpressed at the accuracy of this powder. I plan to keep working up as soon as I get this match behind me and get a little time to hit the local range. Even if 47.2 gr is getting me 2650 - 2700 I am happy with the accuracy I am getting. I get the same accuracy out of the 155s but have to use varget. 46.3 gr if my memory serves me right. I will update soon.
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
I also just got 2 pounds of power pro Varmit. I have some loads for my 30-30 ready for testing now. 125 gr sierra HP around 2600 to 2700 fps is no joke for a 30-30. I also plan on testing this powder in my 308 with 155 grain Amax's. Anyone try any of the Varmit yet?
I also just got 2 pounds of power pro Varmit. I have some loads for my 30-30 ready for testing now. 125 gr sierra HP around 2600 to 2700 fps is no joke for a 30-30. I also plan on testing this powder in my 308 with 155 grain Amax's. Anyone try any of the Varmit yet?
Re: Alliants new Power Pro 2000mr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no chrony data for the 2000MR yet. I am shooting a comp on sat and will verify what speed we think it is and let everyone know. I am inpressed at the accuracy of this powder. I plan to keep working up as soon as I get this match behind me and get a little time to hit the local range. <span style="font-weight: bold">Even if 47.2 gr is getting me 2650 - 2700</span> I am happy with the accuracy I am getting. I get the same accuracy out of the 155s but have to use varget. 46.3 gr if my memory serves me right. I will update soon. </div></div>
Depending on barrel length you should be in the ballpark. I am running 48gr/175 smk at 2650 out of a 20" barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no chrony data for the 2000MR yet. I am shooting a comp on sat and will verify what speed we think it is and let everyone know. I am inpressed at the accuracy of this powder. I plan to keep working up as soon as I get this match behind me and get a little time to hit the local range. <span style="font-weight: bold">Even if 47.2 gr is getting me 2650 - 2700</span> I am happy with the accuracy I am getting. I get the same accuracy out of the 155s but have to use varget. 46.3 gr if my memory serves me right. I will update soon. </div></div>
Depending on barrel length you should be in the ballpark. I am running 48gr/175 smk at 2650 out of a 20" barrel.
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