Alpha brass base not flat

[Mj30wilson900]

So with my alpha brass I have found the bottom of my cases to not be flat and the shoulder to be .01 away from first firing.
After first mild load the brass smears the cartridge wording slightly as that base flattens against the bolt face and the shoulder elongated to my rifles chamber.
Putting a straight edge on the bottom of my brass revealed the concave bottom. Is this normal with alpha brass? I also get heavier than normal bolt lift.

 

[Maurygold]

Alpha brass is best in class. Load, and chambering are more likely to be an issue than the brass. Especially with heavy bolt lift

 

[OREGUN]

So with my alpha brass I have found the bottom of my cases to not be flat and the shoulder to be .012 away from first firing.
After first mild load the brass smears the cartridge wording slightly as that base flattens against the bolt face and the shoulder elongated to my rifles chamber.
Putting a straight edge on the bottom of my brass revealed the concave bottom. Is this normal with alpha brass? I also get heavier than normal bolt lift.

So before firing the base is concave and after the first firing, the base is “flat” and the shoulder has advanced .012”? Is that a correct rephrasing of your first two sentences?

Alpha staff are the people to ask about the case base shape.

Regarding the bolt lift and case smear, your load might not be as light as you think AND/OR you may be experiencing some case thrust as the smallish case expands into your largish chamber…similar to what you will get if you have a gross sizing error or some case lube left on your case. Frankly, I wouldn’t worry too much about any of it until the brass has been fire formed and you are able to control the shoulder dimension…except that I would back down on the load a bit more to eliminate the possibility that you are just over-pressuring the system.

If you are too inquisitive to do nothing, load a few with the bullet “jammed” into the lands (so the bullet holds the case head against the bolt face). This is a fire forming-wildcat trick that should eliminate the case thrust condition.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

OP, there's a fair amount of info missing here. Over the years, I've had a couple of dud cases appear in a new batch of top-tier brass, but it's highly unusual.

• First, you said you have heavy bolt lift, ostensibly with mild load - what does that mean? What caliber? Bullet? Powder charge? Primer?
• I just checked a new Alpha 6BR case - its head is slightly concave, with ~.001-.0015" showing under a straightedge next to primer pocket.
• "I have found... the shoulder to be .012 away from first firing." Are you saying the case grows in overall length on first firing, or just the shoulder? How are you measuring? In my experience, a .012" shoulder movement on first firing is a lot. I find my new brass to typically be "short" at the shoulder by ~.003-.004" from nominal center of SAAMI spec measured with a Wilson case gauge, and .002-.003" over center spec after first firing than minimum SAAMI spec as measured with a Whidden case gauge. The "0" line on the gauge, per Whidden documentation, is the minimum SAAMI shoulder spec, and my virgin brass falls a few thousandths short of that. In my rifles - all cut by the same smith, who tends to favor reaming to the tighter end of the spec - I see fired shoulders .003-.004" above minimum spec.

Beyond all that I agree with Oregun.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

So the cartridge is 6gt
Measured it with a starrett digital caliper and a headspace comparator no bullet in case.
Going to order a Wilson case gage and use a interapid indicator on a granite to recheck.
Mild load was lowest in Hornady loading manual with Varget.

 

[OREGUN]

The only new Alpha brass I happen to have here is 25 x 47. I think I see the concavity you’re talking about. Without someone suggesting I look for it, I would never have seen it. I would go out on a limb to say that that’s not an imperfection in the brass and you should completely stop worrying about it.

I also looked back through my notes on several different chamberings using Alpha brass. The range for initial shoulder growth seems to be somewhere between almost nothing and as much as .006”. All of those barrels are custom ordered and chambered by the same smith so may not be representative of a factory barrel or one chambered by someone with different ideas about headspace precision.

Your comparator is a fine tool for the job. The case gage may just further confuse the issue. Resize a piece with somewhere around .003” of shoulder bump as measured with your existing equipment and try the same load/seating depth, etc. I’d bet your case head smear and heavy bolt lift both go away. If they don’t, you are definitely over charged without regard to what Hornady says.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

 

[Mj30wilson900]

 

[Mj30wilson900]

 

[Mj30wilson900]

1.343 Alpha V.
1.353 Alpha O.F.
1.350 Hornady V.
1.353 Terminus shoulder length.

 

[OREGUN]

1.343 Alpha V.
1.353 Alpha O.F.
1.350 Hornady V.
1.353 Terminus shoulder length.

I don’ t know anything about 6GT dimensions but if those were my measurements, I’d write them down as reference and keep doing what you’re doing. Looks fine to me. Hornady’s load book is useless unless you are using their brass so…back off the load a little more and try the bullet jam method I mentioned above. Or do nothing and accept that the alpha brass is experiencing some case thrust on first firing.

 

[DairyDictator]

If I remember right the SAAMI headspace tolerance range for 6gt is +0/+.01"

The Alpha brass I measured was .0005"-.001" shorter than my go gauge. Sounds to me like you have a chamber cut to the high end of the tolerance. Not really an issue, just set your dies to bump .003 off a fired case.

Is any of this really an issue? How's it shoot and how's the velocity spread? If it's good, forget any of this ever happened and move on with life. If it's not, try contacting guys that do this stuff professionally (Alpha CS) instead of taking advice from rando's on the internet.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So with my alpha brass I have found the bottom of my cases to not be flat and the shoulder to be .01 away from first firing.
After first mild load the brass smears the cartridge wording slightly as that base flattens against the bolt face and the shoulder elongated to my rifles chamber.
Putting a straight edge on the bottom of my brass revealed the concave bottom. Is this normal with alpha brass? I also get heavier than normal bolt lift.

How old is it? There was bad batches of alpha brass where the base looked like a bannana. I think they were pre OCD but either way you should warranty them with Alpha. I bet they will take care of you and replace it quickly. Is it one piece of a bunch?

FYI I have about 3,000 pc of alpha brass I rotate through. Great stuff but everyone makes a dud once in a while.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

How old is it? There was bad batches of alpha brass where the base looked like a bannana. I think they were pro OCD but either way you should warranty them with Alpha. I bet they will take care of you and replace it quickly. Is it one piece of a bunch?

FYI I have about 3,000 pc of alpha brass I rotate through. Great stuff but everyone makes a dud once in a while.

Brass is less than 4 months old

 

[OREGUN]

One thing to keep in mind in case you’re not aware of it, that expansion in the new brass is not going to give you your best ES and SD data.I wouldn’t get too wound up trying to nail down a super precise load until you’re dealing with fireformed brass. You’ll be able to get close, but if you’re reloading process is really tight, I would expect that you can cut your SD in half once you are using fire formed grass.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The measurements you are getting are not really an issue. Brass without a flat base is.

Fresh Alpha brass shoots just as well (if not better) than my reloaded brass that is annealed, cleaned, sized with SAC mandrel, cleaned, trimmed and loaded. Heavy bolt lift is probably due to pressure, fucked up chamber or something else. You also need to make sure chamber and throat areas are clean.

Lastly, those Hornady comparators are garbage. Most Calipers are really only accurate to about .001 anyway so if you are within a thousandth or two so Its most likely a measurement issue. Combine those two and you will get variances all over the place. I threw the Hornady shit in the trash and replace with the SAC set. MUCH more reliable and accurate.

 

[straightshooter1]

One thing to keep in mind in case you’re not aware of it, that expansion in the new brass is not going to give you your best ES and SD data.I wouldn’t get too wound up trying to nail down a super precise load until you’re dealing with fireformed brass. You’ll be able to get close, but if you’re reloading process is really tight, I would expect that you can cut your SD in half once you are using fire formed grass.

Typically, I find this is true. Spring of last year I finally got some Alpha brass for my .308 and loaded them up to fire form, not expecting any kind of good results. To my surprise, 80 consecutive shots chronoed showed an SD of 6.2 with ES of 29. I've never had virgin brass do so well, not even Lapua.

Just an aberration, I guess.

 

[OREGUN]

Typically, I find this is true. Spring of last year I finally got some Alpha brass for my .308 and loaded them up to fire form, not expecting any kind of good results. To my surprise, 80 consecutive shots chronoed showed an SD of 6.2 with ES of 29. I've never had virgin brass do so well, not even Lapua.

Just an aberration, I guess.

In the case where it was really good, was your brass expanding .010” on the first firing? I’ve had predictably low SD’s with Virgin Alpha as well, but typically in cases where the brass is only expanding a thou or two on first firing. The new 25 x 47 brass I referenced above only expands .002” on initial firing. That chamber is cut particularly tight. As expected, the SDs were very low from the start.

 

[straightshooter1]

1.343 Alpha V.
1.353 Alpha O.F.
1.350 Hornady V.
1.353 Terminus shoulder length.

Hmmm??? Maybe it's just the particular lot of brass you happened to get? I'd get hold of Alpha and see what they and willing to do about it. If the cases are stretching that much upon firing, they probably won't last as long as expected.

I didn't have any of those issues with the .308 brass I got. Here's a comparison of measurements I've taken (V for virgin, F for fired):

 

[straightshooter1]

In the case where it was really good, was your brass expanding .010” on the first firing? I’ve had predictably low SD’s with Virgin Alpha as well, but typically in cases where the brass is only expanding a thou or two on first firing. The new 25 x 47 brass I referenced above only expands .002” on initial firing. That chamber is cut particularly tight. As expected, the SDs were very low from the start.

Yeah, you're right . . . brass expanding .010" on firing isn't going to produce such good results. I've never had that problem.

As you can tell from my chart I posted above, my virgin Alpha brass fit nicely into my chamber (a Krieger barrel).

 

[davere]

A buddy got some Alpha 25x47 brass that .003" longer than a x47 Go gauge. His chamber is .001 over a Go gauge. Guess who had to bump shoulders on his new brass? So, Alpha's definitely not above reproach - no manufacturer is.

I'm running Alpha brass in my GT, as well. My brass arrived .001" shorter than my GT go gauge, which is basically perfect. I would be interesting to see how long your virgin brass is vs. a go gauge, just for reference (like, is your brass short, or is your chamber long-ish?). Long headspace can start to look like pressure problems, because the brass gets a "running start" at the bolt face during the early part of the firing cycle. It would also be interesting to see if you have the same issue after normally resizing the 1x brass and firing it a second time (bumping shoulders .002). If that's normal, you may just have to get all the virgin stuff fired and deal with it. And then, when you spin the next barrel, send a couple fired cases (not resized) to your smith, and have him chamber to that dimension, so you can keep using the same brass.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Guys, I really screwed the pooch re measurements in my post above. I corrected it. Fwiw.

 

[BenE]

I heard this reported with recent alpha dasher brass. A chamber that gauged out perfectly had brass grow 0.012” on the first firing and presented as pressure issues.

 

[BenE]

Edit: from two separate people

 

[dhuf]

The brass (6 GT) definitely does NOT have a flat base.
This 7x piece also shows it does not flatten out after a firing or two.

This colored head that I uniformed the pocket on with a PMA uniformer shows it's only contacting the outer rim.
With a dial indicator you can measure a .001-.002" drop from the rim to the pocket.

While I'm not here to bash on Alpha it's far from being faultless as many claim. This isn't an isolated piece of brass I've got several hundred just like it from 3 different lots.

 

[Jadazu]

^^^ What different outcome do you think this causes? What *difference* do you think is makes?

JR Set Point makes the lean manufacturing fab lines for ammo brass production. Alpha has one line, ALG has one, Peterson has three.

 

[Jadazu]

^^^ What different outcome do you think this causes? What *difference* do you think is makes?

JR Set Point makes the lean manufacturing fab lines for ammo brass production. Alpha has one line, ALG has one, Peterson has three.

OP: "So with my alpha brass I have found the bottom of my cases to not be flat and the shoulder to be .01 away from first firing.
After first mild load the brass smears the cartridge wording slightly as that base flattens against the bolt face and the shoulder elongated to my rifles chamber.
Putting a straight edge on the bottom of my brass revealed the concave bottom. Is this normal with alpha brass? I also get heavier than normal bolt lift."

Belly-button gazing

ETA: F-ing Belly Button F-ing Gazing x100

ETA x2: I have *never* in 40 years of comp shooting **ever** heard anyone say "Putting a straight edge on the bottom of my brass revealed the concave bottom."

WTF!

Serious question: How did we do this? How did we get here?

Why are you not refining your point-of-aim? Why are you not inculcating natural-point-of-aim?

***Why are you putting a straight edge on to the "bottom" of some brass??***

Brass measuring competition. Its new, I guess... smaller is better

 

[Mj30wilson900]

Well my concern would be that if we go through all the time and effort to blueprint a action or buy an action that is square and bolt face is flat and everything is tru and we buy the supposed best brass out there what would that concave cause?
Maybe nothing, but as that base flattens with pressure will the primer pocket get tighter and if that occurs do we now have to uniform this brass.
Answer is yes we have gotten here because we want to understand why. By understanding why we can modify if we have to and top of the line product will always be under scrutiny.
My reason for asking was to figure out as that brass moves back against the face of the bolt and flattens out what happens to it as this is a new type of optimized brass. OCD brass. I for one never seen this before.

 

[dhuf]

I realized it after uniforming primer pockets. Taking the pocket to .124" you actually get a .122" pocket recessed .002 below the base of the case but not necessarily below flush of the pocket itself.
In Lapua I go .123" ideally gets you .002" below flush of the pocket and the case head

I don't know what difference it makes other than it makes uniforming pockets a pain in the ass.

It's been said that after a firing or two it will flatten but I've not seen it flatten in 7 firings. The same set of brass appears to be hardening or flowing more brass to the necks unevenly across the set. You can feel it sizing and even more expanding. It's 3-4 firings since the last annealing so it will get trimmed and annealed next sizing and I'll see if that quirk goes away.


For people who blindly say Alpha is without fault and don't question anything it may makes no difference. I can't see any evidence on the heads that it does flatten during firing and would think it would but if it does it definitely does not stay that way after the firing cycle.

 

[dhuf]

**Why are you putting a straight edge on to the "bottom" of some brass??***

Because if you uniform a pocket to .123"-.124" like you've previously done thousands of times before on Lapua to get a .003" crush on a primer and a .002" below flush on the case head and all of the sudden the same process is showing NO below flush or even proud primers you have to ask yourself...

"WTF is going on here"

 

[Maurygold]

No idea why you’re attempting to uniform pockets on lapua or alpha brass. Poor choice

 

[dhuf]

No idea why you’re attempting to uniform pockets on lapua or alpha brass. Poor choice

That would be your opinion not necessarily fact.
So you would rather have pockets that vary in depth?
You'd rather have proud primers or smash the shit out of them to get below flush?

I realize most don't give two shits about primer crush and I'm not trying to convert the masses here.

I've explained it before in a few posts and I have very few posts so it won't be a hard search if you're interested in an opinion other than your own rather than just criticizing someone for doing something you don't do it's all there.

 

[Maurygold]

That would be your opinion not necessarily fact.
So you would rather have pockets that vary in depth?
You'd rather have proud primers or smash the shit out of them to get below flush?

I realize most don't give two shits about primer crush and I'm not trying to convert the masses here.

I've explained it before in a few posts and I have very few posts so it won't be a hard search if you're interested in an opinion other than your own rather than just criticizing someone for doing something you don't do it's all there.

That’s fact. Lapua and alpha have better manufacturing than whatever you’re doing.

Primers will go beyond flush without crush. I get ultra consistent results with factory lapua, aloha and adg using a cps

 

[Mj30wilson900]

**Why are you putting a straight edge on to the "bottom" of some brass??***

Because if you uniform a pocket to .123"-.124" like you've previously done thousands of times before on Lapua to get a .003" crush on a primer and a .002" below flush on the case head and all of the sudden the same process is showing NO below flush or even proud primers you have to ask yourself...

"WTF is going

That’s fact. Lapua and alpha have better manufacturing than whatever you’re doing.

Primers will go beyond flush without crush. I get ultra consistent results with factory lapua, aloha and adg using a

That’s fact. Lapua and alpha have better manufacturing than whatever you’re doing.

Primers will go beyond flush without crush. I get ultra consistent results with factory lapua, aloha and adg using a cps

alpha is the new kid on the block and I trust lapua over alpha myself. Alpha has a newly designed case procedure to optimize the case. Do you just trust them or do you try to figure out why they designed it that way and could it be prone to this type of symptom. Not saying if it is good or bad but does it have an impact on the brass movement?

 

[dhuf]

That’s fact. Lapua and alpha have better manufacturing than whatever you’re doing.

Primers will go beyond flush without crush. I get ultra consistent results with factory lapua, aloha and adg using a cps

You don't know what I'm doing so saying I can't make a set of pockets more uniform than how they come out of the box and how they get over repeated firings is not fact.

I'm using a CPS as well on an F Class base with indicator. PMA cutters that specifically cut/uniform the bottom of the pocket not the sides etc.

I've been doing it the way I'm doing it for a few years now. It's extra work and it's not any fun. I'm not trying to prove it's worth to you or anybody else.
I've found and or feel it's worth doing for 600 & 1000 Benchrest so I'm choosing to do it. Saying I'm making a poor choice does not make it anything other than your opinion.

 

[Maurygold]

You don't know what I'm doing so saying I can't make a set of pockets more uniform than how they come out of the box and how they get over repeated firings is not fact.

I'm using a CPS as well on an F Class base with indicator. PMA cutters that specifically cut/uniform the bottom of the pocket not the sides etc.

I've been doing it the way I'm doing it for a few years now. It's extra work and it's not any fun. I'm not trying to prove it's worth to you or anybody else.
I've found and or feel it's worth doing for 600 & 1000 Benchrest so I'm choosing to do it. Saying I'm making a poor choice does not make it anything other than your opinion.

You said above you’re using a 50$ pma tool. I have no reservation it is not as accurate or great as what the factory is doing.

How on earth can you be surprised about primer protrusion when you’re crushing?? You would need to measure the cup and primer and the numbers would easily tell you where the primer would end up. Something doesn’t add up there…….

 

[dhuf]

You said above you’re using a 50$ pma tool. I have no reservation it is not as accurate or great as what the factory is doing.

How on earth can you be surprised about primer profusion when you’re crushing?? You would need to measure the cup and primer and the numbers would easily tell you where the primer would end up. Something doesn’t add up there…….

You're saying a precision cutting tool that indexs off a case head is less great than a punch process in the manufacturing process?
If I put a cutter into a pocket that only cuts the bottom of a virgin pocket and give it a quick turn you can see it's uneven. Either out in the corners, closer to the flash hole or some random spot.

I'm gonna say I don't even understand this question.

"How on earth can you be surprised about primer profusion when you’re crushing??"

So if you measure a virgin pocket or even a fired pocket with adequate tooling the pocket is rarely flat across the bottom.
I'm working in the field and not sitting at my bench so I'm recalling numbers from memory.
Factory Lapua pocket .120" - .121" measuring off the corners of the pocket where the cup contacts.
CCI 400 depending on where you measure .122" - .123"

So what I'm doing is cutting the bottom of the pocket to .123" so with the CPS and F Class dial I can feel it touch bottom and apply .003" measured crush to the anvil and wind up .002-.003" below flush.

If these numbers don't "add up" again recalling from memory.

I assume what you're doing is setting the stop on the CPS so you are getting whatever flush to below flush setting you feel or have tested to be optimal?

You and I are using the same tool differently to achieve two separate things. I'm not going to all the trouble of measuring primers when I can feel it touch bottom and apply the crush I feel is optimal for what I'm doing. I'll get 90% + at the same below flush doing it this way but I know they have exactly the same crush because I've measured and applied it.
Not just a below flush but a combined same crush with the same below flush.

IF and I say if because I don't know if you are just setting the stop to achieve a below flush on virgin pockets you are crushing anvil and cup probably not just a little. On fired cases definitely not just a little.
If it's working for you great, I've got no issue with what you do. While I don't have many posts here I'm not some noob reloader that's trying to reinvent the wheel.
I've done the measuring & sorting with better tools than a caliper and did some testing on paper at 600 yards that showed there was an improvement over doing nothing.

This thread is the exact reason for my extremely low post count, you confirm something someone else says in a thread because deniers won't believe it then somebody asks "why are you even putting a ruler to the bottom of a case" so you explain how that happened and next thing you know you're a knuckle dragging mouth breather.

I gotta get back to work, have a great day!

 

[Maurygold]

You're saying a precision cutting tool that indexs off a case head is less great than a punch process in the manufacturing process?
If I put a cutter into a pocket that only cuts the bottom of a virgin pocket and give it a quick turn you can see it's uneven. Either out in the corners, closer to the flash hole or some random spot.

I'm gonna say I don't even understand this question.

"How on earth can you be surprised about primer profusion when you’re crushing??"

So if you measure a virgin pocket or even a fired pocket with adequate tooling the pocket is rarely flat across the bottom.
I'm working in the field and not sitting at my bench so I'm recalling numbers from memory.
Factory Lapua pocket .120" - .121" measuring off the corners of the pocket where the cup contacts.
CCI 400 depending on where you measure .122" - .123"

So what I'm doing is cutting the bottom of the pocket to .123" so with the CPS and F Class dial I can feel it touch bottom and apply .003" measured crush to the anvil and wind up .002-.003" below flush.

If these numbers don't "add up" again recalling from memory.

I assume what you're doing is setting the stop on the CPS so you are getting whatever flush to below flush setting you feel or have tested to be optimal?

You and I are using the same tool differently to achieve two separate things. I'm not going to all the trouble of measuring primers when I can feel it touch bottom and apply the crush I feel is optimal for what I'm doing. I'll get 90% + at the same below flush doing it this way but I know they have exactly the same crush because I've measured and applied it.
Not just a below flush but a combined same crush with the same below flush.

IF and I say if because I don't know if you are just setting the stop to achieve a below flush on virgin pockets you are crushing anvil and cup probably not just a little. On fired cases definitely not just a little.
If it's working for you great, I've got no issue with what you do. While I don't have many posts here I'm not some noob reloader that's trying to reinvent the wheel.
I've done the measuring & sorting with better tools than a caliper and did some testing on paper at 600 yards that showed there was an improvement over doing nothing.

This thread is the exact reason for my extremely low post count, you confirm something someone else says in a thread because deniers won't believe it then somebody asks "why are you even putting a ruler to the bottom of a case" so you explain how that happened and next thing you know you're a knuckle dragging mouth breather.

I gotta get back to work, have a great day!

Using a precision tool to seat primers by feel is as poor a choice as monkeying with lapua, alpha or adg primer pockets

 

[dhuf]

Using a precision tool to seat primers by feel is as poor a choice as monkeying with lapua, alpha or adg primer pockets

Sounds good have a great day you do you and I'll keep my retarded notions to myself in the future

 

[dhuf]

Using a precision tool to seat primers by feel is as poor a choice as monkeying with lapua, alpha or adg primer pockets

People have been seating primers by feel shooting well and breaking records for many many years

Last thing then I'm out. The precision tool we both own does NOTHING to account for rim thickness and primer cup variance so it's not very precise if used as directed in my opinion.

You can think about that or not but you've said absolutely not one thing to make me question what I'm doing and you obviously can't consider another way that you're not doing.

 

[Maurygold]

People have been seating primers by feel shooting well and breaking records for many many years

Last thing then I'm out. The precision tool we both own does NOTHING to account for rim thickness and primer cup variance so it's not very precise if used as directed in my opinion.

You can think about that or not but you've said absolutely not one thing to make me question what I'm doing and you obviously can't consider another way that you're not doing.

To be fair I’m not the only one an entire forum who can figure out why I have primer protusion while using a precision tool by feel……

 

[dhuf]

To be fair I’m not the only one an entire forum who can figure out why I have primer protusion while using a precision tool by feel……

You've made this similar statement twice now and I still don't understand so if you care to dumb it down for for me I'll consider it but otherwise I'm at a loss to what point you're trying to make.
Seriously no sarcasm

 

[Emerson0311]

Sounds good have a great day you do you and I'll keep my retarded notions to myself in the future

None of the regulars here listen to that clown. Most of us have him on ignore. You need to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff on here. If someone is a real illogical argumentative tool I put them on ignore right away. Having them removed from my life forever makes it better. I don’t worry about missing a nugget of truth. Life is too short.

 

[Maurygold]

You've made this similar statement twice now and I still don't understand so if you care to dumb it down for for me I'll consider it but otherwise I'm at a loss to what point you're trying to make.
Seriously no sarcasm

You surely understand the other option. Measure your cup, measure your primers, seat 2-5 thou under flush - depending on the desired crush (2 thou).

You can't simultaneously claim to be the only person with a primer protusion while performing tasks by feel when the tolerances are such that they clearly allow for full seating depth under flush.

 

[Maurygold]

None of the regulars here listen to that clown. Most of us have him on ignore. You need to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff on here. If someone is a real illogical argumentative tool I put them on ignore right away. Having them removed from my life forever makes it better. I don’t worry about missing a nugget of truth. Life is too short.

Throwing shade but offering nothing of substance is your favorite. Here’s some chronos from two different magnum supressed rifles if you think I’m spouting off about ignition without knowing anything.

 

[dhuf]

You surely understand the other option. Measure your cup, measure your primers, seat 2-5 thou under flush - depending on the desired crush (2 thou).

You can't simultaneously claim to be the only person with a primer protusion while performing tasks by feel when the tolerances are such that they clearly allow for full seating depth under flush.

Yes I clearly understand the other option and said I'm not going to measure each individual primer and each individual pocket and seat every primer accordingly.

I don't know what to tell you about your second statement I'm telling you how & why I do it the way I do it and you come back with I've made poor choices.

The tolerances are not such that you can get a measurable .003" crush simultaneous with a .002"-003" below flush or I'd never went down this road to begin with. If you've got .003" more primer than pocket you are crushing .005" to get .002" below flush.

I know when I seat a primer in a virgin pocket to touch and add .003" crush, preload, tension whatever you want to it call I get at best a flush or usually a proud primer.

Seating BR 4s in virgin Peterson 6.5x47 L last night the same process had a range of .001" below flush to .001" proud.
The part you're ignoring in all this is I value the .003" measured crush and want some uniform below flush with it.
I've tested this at 600 yards on paper to prove to myself the measurable .003" crush (not the below flush) is more favorable than .001, 2, 4 & 5

Yes I could set the stop on the CPS to get what I think is a good below flush but that's not the objective, it's the measured crush without measuring pockets and primers all of which does nothing for rim thickness variation.

In the end have it your way I'm not pursuing it any further and I'll take the advice of the guy you rebuked with chrono numbers and put you on ignore.

 

[Maurygold]

Yes I clearly understand the other option and said I'm not going to measure each individual primer and each individual pocket and seat every primer accordingly.

I don't know what to tell you about your second statement I'm telling you how & why I do it the way I do it and you come back with I've made poor choices.

The tolerances are not such that you can get a measurable .003" crush simultaneous with a .002"-003" below flush or I'd never went down this road to begin with. If you've got .003" more primer than pocket you are crushing .005" to get .002" below flush.

I know when I seat a primer in a virgin pocket to touch and add .003" crush, preload, tension whatever you want to it call I get at best a flush or usually a proud primer.

Seating BR 4s in virgin Peterson 6.5x47 L last night the same process had a range of .001" below flush to .001" proud.
The part you're ignoring in all this is I value the .003" measured crush and want some uniform below flush with it.
I've tested this at 600 yards on paper to prove to myself the measurable .003" crush (not the below flush) is more favorable than .001, 2, 4 & 5

Yes I could set the stop on the CPS to get what I think is a good below flush but that's not the objective, it's the measured crush without measuring pockets and primers all of which does nothing for rim thickness variation.

In the end have it your way I'm not pursuing it any further and I'll take the advice of the guy you rebuked with chrono numbers and put you on ignore.

“If you've got .003" more primer than pocket you are crushing .005" to get .002" below flush.”

I’m not aware of one other person experiencing this with lapua or alpha brass using cci or federal primers. I’m sure not.

Clearly there would be dozens of post if the pockets were such that the most universally used primers could not fit in the pockets of the most used brass.

“it's the measured crush without measuring pockets”

You’re not measuring anything it’s by feel. Which is why you’re probably the only person who thinks the primer pockets are incorrectly sized when not one other person on this thread is experiencing that. Makes you wonder what the common denominator is….