Rifle Scopes Alpha Scope Review: Zero Compromise, Tangent Theta, Schmidt
- Thread starter arm017
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How much play? Enough to cause confusion? Shouldn't be that much at all. Please let me know.
Enough that if I looked up directly at it in a match I’d have to wiggle it back and forth to see where it’s at. The play is similar to what you’d might find in a gen 2 razor. However the razor uses massive 10 mil turrets so the spacing is so much there is more room for error and still be confident which hash it’s on. The spacing on the 15 mil ZCO turrets is much smaller and thus the room for error is very small. We are nitpicking here but most the scopes in the 2500+ dollar price range seem to have less play between the clicks/detents. Grab a tangent or a Schmidt and wiggle the turrets side by side and the difference will be immediately apparent. That said, one of the scopes had significantly better turrets than the others. It may just be a tolerance stack up in the turret housing or the depth of the spine machining or sharpness of the detent pins. No idea but the one scope has an elevation turret that was much better than the others. In a 1500 dollar scope nobody would bat an eye but with one over twice that price I think your clients tend to be much less forgiving.
Got it, thanks.
Excellent comparison review and thanks for your efforts. Just ordered ZCO from Mile High and hope they have elevation turrets figures out by next run. What sold it for me was improved resolution at 15x and reticle option. Should be ideal comp scope.
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Wow that's small. I thought my Mil-C was not usable at much less than 10x with a .05 center dot.
I think this is where that scope will shine. With how generous the eyebox was at mid magnification, I’d imagine you can just about free recoil and spot your shots.
Pls make elev turret just stiff as windage..it will make this scope 100% its now 99% for us perfectionist
Implementing changes already, stand by.Pls make elev turret just stiff as windage..it will make this scope 100% its now 99% for us perfectionist
Awesome to hear. Btw I hope I and others here critiquing have not been offensive. Just trying to give ZCO open, direct, and honest feedback to help you guys make a perfect product which helps both the company and consumer in the end. Really great to see a company implement feedback this quickly. Other companies could take notes...
There have been several posts suggesting that owning the latest and greatest is foolishness or that other brands do what ZCO does. I will unequivocally disagree and this is why.
arm017, I know that you've received numerous accolades for your review and I'm going to be another, fantastic job considering the time you had, these scopes were literally just getting out last week and to do something so thorough and engaging was refreshing to see, it takes me much longer to get a review out so I can appreciate the effort that went into this. Not only does it benefit the community, but it has also benefited ZCO and thankful that Nick is a part of the Hide and has been very responsive.
I was hoping you're going to turn me down! You just cost me another scope one is already one the way lol
Didn't you just have the K525i late last year you put up against your Schmidt, now you're getting a ZCO, can't wait to see some images of the Hawaiian hills
and of course hear your thoughts as I appreciate your comments and comparisons. Yup..still loving them LRR reticle and k525 skmr3..but but..i gotta have zcomp tooDidn't you just have the K525i late last year you put up against your Schmidt, now you're getting a ZCO, can't wait to see some images of the Hawaiian hills
Met Nick from ZCO at SHOT. Good dude, and that's what customer service is about!
On a side note, I love my printed level on that TT lol!
On a side note, I love my printed level on that TT lol!
Hah; it’s actually one of the more accurate, sensitive low profile levels I’ve found.
Very much appreciate that.
Originally, I was slightly nervous to come out with any sort of negativity on a Long awaited and highly anticipated optic, but I let everything speak for itself. To hear that they are already tweaking and adjusting is one of the more refreshing things to hear.
Great review and very comprehensive. I am sure the turret issue will be resolved.
I have 3 Zp5s and was concerned about the misalignment of the turrets that was spoken about in lots of places. None of mine exhibit it and I am sure ZCO will tackle that issue as well.
Sometimes older models take a while to get through the system.
I have 3 Zp5s and was concerned about the misalignment of the turrets that was spoken about in lots of places. None of mine exhibit it and I am sure ZCO will tackle that issue as well.
Sometimes older models take a while to get through the system.
That was a great comparison
Anyway you can post a link to your other reviews?
Anyway you can post a link to your other reviews?
None of us want to do that, especially with something new that has very high expectations from the community, but the benefit the Hide brings is honest reviews of a lot of this gear vs. many other magazines and paid for marketing which tend to cover up some of these issues, or the reviewer doesn't know any better. I also know that the turret part was not something ZCO wanted to see, but we don't expect them to be perfect (especially right out of the gate) and it's their response and willingness to resolve the issue asap that matters (I do look forward to seeing your video of the turrets after the fix from ZCO). The benefit that you and I have, along with a bunch of others on the Hide like HK Dave, ILya, 5RWill and the like (sorry if I didn't mention you by name, these were just the first that came to mind) is that we are not paid by companies to review their products, we do this for our own knowledge and as a service to the community. The few who rip on us because we didn't do this or didn't do that is just the noise in the background, we do the best we can with what we have and if we make a mistake we learn from it and move on so the next review is even better. I have not seen any of your other reviews but I thoroughly enjoyed reading through this one, you engaged me like we were sitting there having a drink on the front porch and you were sharing what you experienced, I'd much rather have that than a clinical review (though those have their place as well). Again, great job!
That was my first formal sort of thing. I've gotten a few folks poke about doing a blog of sorts... Maybe so in the future?
Everybody is concerned with the elevation turret lining up....understandably. However, I'm wondering if it might just be a result of the zero stop not being set correctly. I have already shot a match with the ZCO and it ran flawlessly. I was careful with setting the zero-stop and don't have any issues with it not lining up. I think the ZCO scope it awesome and based on the post from their staff member, they obviously have a good and concerned warranty and QC section. IMHO, it's a stretch to think the TT is $1K better optic.
So glad to hear your thoughts after actually using one in a match. im watching carefuly for anybody else that's had one a while, from the first batch. hopeful that the turret issue is a single event. eithereway you are right that zco is watching and that is a major deal IMO.
I have been out at the range the last couple days and just got back to read the last couple pages. I just sent an email to ZCO as my elevation turret issues mirror that of the video on page 1. I think I saw the word nuisance mentioned as it was a touch of that but I still would use it tomorrow over my Atacr if I had a match. Love the reticle and it does seem to really shine in that 15x zone. Hopefully I'll get my elevation turret sorted out and it will for sure be replacing the NF.
@Patriots1884 please call our CS number at 208-435-4000. We've been having server issues with the email system. Thank you.
It's funny you used this wording, as ARM017 is in fact a doctor LOL.
How would one not set the zero stop properly? It’s built in. The turret shouldn’t seat if it wasn’t aligned properly.
How do you adjust the internal zero stop? I tried multiple methods to adjust the external set screws:
With it locked vs. unlocked.
Lower/ higher torque
Fore and aft of the zero indicator
even tried semi torquing the set screws engaging the play, then tightening.
All methods led to the same results and repeated with second zco scope of team mate
@Dthomas3523
Because it's a locking turret, there are splines inside. If you aren't careful to aline the splines correctly they can be off just a bit. I may be wrong, but I think this could be where some people are getting a slight mis-alinement. The set screws can be very lightly tightened before sliding the turret cap down. Once the turret is bottomed, the set screws can be loosened and then re-tightened. It's worth a try before sending a scope back.
Because it's a locking turret, there are splines inside. If you aren't careful to aline the splines correctly they can be off just a bit. I may be wrong, but I think this could be where some people are getting a slight mis-alinement. The set screws can be very lightly tightened before sliding the turret cap down. Once the turret is bottomed, the set screws can be loosened and then re-tightened. It's worth a try before sending a scope back.
Then the reported 3/4 of them at shot that were show models had the turrets set wrong.
The more likely scenario is you have one of the 1/4 that aren’t experiencing the issue.
As per gebhardt, they have acknowledged it and are making changes already.
I had no idea, but I'll refer to him as Dr. Arm moving forward
That is pretty funny, but also nice to see a doctor speak in layman's terms so well.
One thing that was noticed, and maybe why JKonz mentioned wasn't an issue for him as he isn't randomly twisting, is that when randomly turning the knobs then pushing them in to lock they hit some "alignment" bind and you have to "wiggle" them in. The weird part is, when you dial an exact number, for example 2.2, and locked it, it locked with no resistance every time. On all the scopes at their booth.
The thing to understand is these scopes have hundreds of tiny grooves for the locking knob to lock into. If not aligned perfect, it will bind. I will be interested in how ZCO design crew address this issue. For me it wasn't an issue as the locking went straight in when done purposefully. When randomly playing with scope as all at SHOT were doing, there def was binding.
Deal breaker? I don't know. I personally hate locking ele knobs as my heavy hand locks them randomly when turning (y I sold my vortex) but I think I would really like this scope if they eliminated the locking feature completely.
Regards,
DT
The thing to understand is these scopes have hundreds of tiny grooves for the locking knob to lock into. If not aligned perfect, it will bind. I will be interested in how ZCO design crew address this issue. For me it wasn't an issue as the locking went straight in when done purposefully. When randomly playing with scope as all at SHOT were doing, there def was binding.
Deal breaker? I don't know. I personally hate locking ele knobs as my heavy hand locks them randomly when turning (y I sold my vortex) but I think I would really like this scope if they eliminated the locking feature completely.
Regards,
DT
You bring up an interesting thought DT. I have found that some locking turrets had a bit of play to them and have thought it might be due to the lift to unlock and depress to lock mechanism. The units I saw the least amount of play with were the Schmidt turrets with locking mechanism and the Vortex AMG, but I hear what you're saying, some shooters don't want it at all and I can see in PRS and NRL type competitions the benefit of not having to deal with a lock/unlock would be preferred. It'll be interesting to see if ZCO offers a future version where they eliminate the elevation lock and another option to eliminate the windage lock.
The amg’s I owned also never had this issue.
Schmidt as well, but that was a different kind of lock, at least I think it was.
Personally, I only used the windage lock most of the time. I’d leave the elevation unlocked.
Of course, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Don’t have locking turrets, people scream locking turrets.
Have locking turrets, people scream no locking turrets.
Give the option for either, but have to charge a bit more to cover overall production costs, people scream about price.
Don’t have locking turrets, people scream locking turrets.
Have locking turrets, people scream no locking turrets.
Give the option for either, but have to charge a bit more to cover overall production costs, people scream about price.
@Dthomas3523
You hit the nail on the head!!!!
You hit the nail on the head!!!!
Man, I just want to say awesome review! Nice to see unbiased real deal thoughts. I personally love locking turrets, but I can see how the design can make them a little problematic.
Also, huge plus to see the response from ZCO genuinely concerned and ready to right something that may not be perfect.
I called and had a nice talk with CStactical a couple of days ago (can’t remember the guys name) and I’m going to pull the trigger on the ZCO 5-27. I’ve got a NF 7-35 ATACR and Kahles K525i that just arrived today. I need two scopes for two new Vudoos I’ve got on order. I’ll be keeping two of the three in some sort of fashion. Maybe two of the same, who knows.
Interestingly enough, I have a Tract Toric UHD 4-20 FFP in my possession that I am considering. It too is having a hard time with its turrets locking down. I will say, for the meager asking price of this scope it’s batting WAY WAY above it’s average. Glass is gorgeous. Save that for another day.
I’d be interested to hear any resolve on the turret issue. Are you planning on sending the scope back to ZCO?
I’ve been lurking around here for a while and this thread and your review got me to finally sign up. I’m planning on doing an amateur review between the ZCO, Kahles, NF, and Tract.
First post, happy to be here.
Also, huge plus to see the response from ZCO genuinely concerned and ready to right something that may not be perfect.
I called and had a nice talk with CStactical a couple of days ago (can’t remember the guys name) and I’m going to pull the trigger on the ZCO 5-27. I’ve got a NF 7-35 ATACR and Kahles K525i that just arrived today. I need two scopes for two new Vudoos I’ve got on order. I’ll be keeping two of the three in some sort of fashion. Maybe two of the same, who knows.
Interestingly enough, I have a Tract Toric UHD 4-20 FFP in my possession that I am considering. It too is having a hard time with its turrets locking down. I will say, for the meager asking price of this scope it’s batting WAY WAY above it’s average. Glass is gorgeous. Save that for another day.
I’d be interested to hear any resolve on the turret issue. Are you planning on sending the scope back to ZCO?
I’ve been lurking around here for a while and this thread and your review got me to finally sign up. I’m planning on doing an amateur review between the ZCO, Kahles, NF, and Tract.
First post, happy to be here.
@arm017 have you received your scope back yet from ZCO? Just curious how your overall experience went and if you have an update on the turrets. I know it can be frustrating to have an issue with something brand new but an even better experience to know that the company you bought it from went to every length to get it resolved in a timely manner. Part of the appeal with ZCO to me is knowing they can be serviced here in the USA and quickly.
He returned it before he could send it in.
I always seem to accidentally lock the the elevation turret on my Raz Gen 2 I guess its easier to accidentally push them down than pulling them up.
Yes; I returned it before I could experience the customer service department. I have since felt the second iteration of some of these turrets, and it is perfect. No play to be had. The windage firmness matches the elevation.
Their customer service is top notch from what it seems, reaching out publicly and privately. If I had kept the scope; I would not doubt it would have been fixed stat.
Locking turrets are still not my calling in life, but they fixed that issue seen in the video in friends’ scopes and subsequent production scopes. I would not have any issue recommending ZCO. That scope had enough personal compromises for me to justify 4K. We’ll see about it later on maybe.
yes exactly man. I just don't feel the locking turret gives us much of a benefit one way or another. I would love it if ZCO made this without one. Cause my fingers want to gravity downward when running a turret. I am more 'precise' that way, but a sliding collar turret does not allow you to do that as naturally.
One thing I have noticed, Zco did so well on the knurling and such, they would likely have to redesign or change the internals a bit for non locking turrets.
Meaning, it takes very little effort to get the turrets to spin using the raised sections/knurling. It’s perfect for running the turret on the clock. But the flip side of that is it’s easier for something on a barricade or such to spin your turret.
I think they way their turret currently reacts, it needs to be locking.
Not that I would oppose a non locking Zco. Just want people to realize it’s likely not as easy as them just disabling the locking mechanism.
Meaning, it takes very little effort to get the turrets to spin using the raised sections/knurling. It’s perfect for running the turret on the clock. But the flip side of that is it’s easier for something on a barricade or such to spin your turret.
I think they way their turret currently reacts, it needs to be locking.
Not that I would oppose a non locking Zco. Just want people to realize it’s likely not as easy as them just disabling the locking mechanism.
I think the biggest risk of rolled turrets for PRS/NRL are on the obstacles and it is almost always the windage as you try to hug the edge of a window or side of a barricade to get a bit more stability.
Hiking in field matches with turrets that have scalloped knobs like the ER-25 EREKs did, or how the ZCO seem to look, certainly can ratchet as you hike with the gun slung. The "why don't you just look at your turrets" thing is valid, BUT.... I have and I have seen a lot of other shooter arrive at the staging area must have looked to quickly spun it back a few clicks to zero, not realizing that the turrets had ratchet all the way around. Firing 10-12mills over the top of the targets in foliage is a great way to get a zero.
i think it will be hard to solve everyones needs with one scope.
Hiking in field matches with turrets that have scalloped knobs like the ER-25 EREKs did, or how the ZCO seem to look, certainly can ratchet as you hike with the gun slung. The "why don't you just look at your turrets" thing is valid, BUT.... I have and I have seen a lot of other shooter arrive at the staging area must have looked to quickly spun it back a few clicks to zero, not realizing that the turrets had ratchet all the way around. Firing 10-12mills over the top of the targets in foliage is a great way to get a zero.
i think it will be hard to solve everyones needs with one scope.
That is very encouraging to hear arm017, I realize that locking/unlocking can be a personal preference, like Diver mentions above, it'd be very hard to meet everyone's needs with one scope. I thought the locking mechanism on the Vortex AMG had the right resistance, same with the Schmidt & Bender, sounds like ZCO may be a bit too light for your taste but maybe just right for others. I am guessing/hoping that once Mile High got your scope back they sent it in to ZCO knowing the alignment was off.
Great write up. Thank you!
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