Am I an idiot..??
- Thread starter KEbravo4
- Start date
I appreciate and respect the excellent research and production effort that goes into providing these chassis, and I also recognize that many shooters' activities are genuinely improved by their use.
I'm old school, and have repeatedly asked myself which advantage(s) they provide that I simply cannot live without. Honestly, there aren't any that stick out that far for me.
My bolt rifles are all properly bedded and do not exhibit any bad behaviors that can be alleviated by the sizable investment. Is it overpriced? I don't think so; but it is substantial.
The chassis' appearances are striking. They have a bit of a robotics-like feel to them; something like what we used to describe as "Duck Dodgers". This is all well and good; but not something I can't live without.
The ergonomics presented are generally identical to those currently available in quality AR systems. Well, I have those, because I have similarly configured AR systems which are quite accurate and satisfying and I can build one for a cost approximately similar to the chassis alone, by choosing options from distributors, and investing some quality time performing the upgrades. Doing it this way adds greatly to my enjoyment and satisfaction with our sport. I won't list the upgrades, as I have done so numerously in the past; and it's mostly just a boring litany these days. For me, the AR is the chassis; and AR's have come a long way toward being accurate and robust. For example, one of my 6.5 Grendel AR's was built on a sporter upper and uses no parts from a typical Upper Parts Kit. Despite the lack; I have yet to experience any difficulty stemming from the particular configuration. IMHO, it's a successful experiment.
But that's my solution and it serves me to my satisfaction. I could afford the expenditure to go the way of the chassis, but I choose otherwise; and that choice has not brought problems my way. Not choosing so has allowed me to invest some sweat equity and a selection of precisely the options I prefer; and the cost saving has also allowed me to multiply my number and types of rifles.
Finally, I would suggest that as long as one limits oneself to exclude the top tier products, one actually can still afford components that serve one's needs very admirably.
Were I one of those elite shooters who contend for top marks nationally, well of course I would subscribe another view. But most of us aren't, and emulating what I am not is outside my sphere of interest.
IMHO, the right people have the right stuff, so long as they can accurately see what's genuinely in their mirrors..'s
YMMV.
Greg
I'm old school, and have repeatedly asked myself which advantage(s) they provide that I simply cannot live without. Honestly, there aren't any that stick out that far for me.
My bolt rifles are all properly bedded and do not exhibit any bad behaviors that can be alleviated by the sizable investment. Is it overpriced? I don't think so; but it is substantial.
The chassis' appearances are striking. They have a bit of a robotics-like feel to them; something like what we used to describe as "Duck Dodgers". This is all well and good; but not something I can't live without.
The ergonomics presented are generally identical to those currently available in quality AR systems. Well, I have those, because I have similarly configured AR systems which are quite accurate and satisfying and I can build one for a cost approximately similar to the chassis alone, by choosing options from distributors, and investing some quality time performing the upgrades. Doing it this way adds greatly to my enjoyment and satisfaction with our sport. I won't list the upgrades, as I have done so numerously in the past; and it's mostly just a boring litany these days. For me, the AR is the chassis; and AR's have come a long way toward being accurate and robust. For example, one of my 6.5 Grendel AR's was built on a sporter upper and uses no parts from a typical Upper Parts Kit. Despite the lack; I have yet to experience any difficulty stemming from the particular configuration. IMHO, it's a successful experiment.
But that's my solution and it serves me to my satisfaction. I could afford the expenditure to go the way of the chassis, but I choose otherwise; and that choice has not brought problems my way. Not choosing so has allowed me to invest some sweat equity and a selection of precisely the options I prefer; and the cost saving has also allowed me to multiply my number and types of rifles.
Finally, I would suggest that as long as one limits oneself to exclude the top tier products, one actually can still afford components that serve one's needs very admirably.
Were I one of those elite shooters who contend for top marks nationally, well of course I would subscribe another view. But most of us aren't, and emulating what I am not is outside my sphere of interest.
IMHO, the right people have the right stuff, so long as they can accurately see what's genuinely in their mirrors..'s
YMMV.
Greg
Last edited:
So your contention is you like lots of cheap things. And you profer lots of cheap things over 1 nice thing?
But what if you have the same budget and profer nice things?
Which is why I have 2 very nice AR's, a Knights, and a franken gun of all custom components, as opposed to 6 shitty PSA AR's. I was hoping to do the same with this new bolt gun build. Quick change barrels so my competition PRS gun can also be in the tree-stand with me.
No, that's not my contention; and I do believe that I managed to make that clear to any who would actually choose to approach my post with an open mind.
But if my post has irritated you, maybe some shoe or other fits.
As it happens; I can afford these things I but choose not to, mainly because I really don't have a need for what they provide. Those needs also require some agreement with my other half, whose funds accounts we both share, married 50 years in less than two weeks. We live on a fixed income, and I'm fortunate that my rather lavish guns spending ($1600 over the past two months) is agreeable with my soul's mate. I have maybe a unique definition of 'spending wisely'.
FWIW, the first aftermarket stock I ever acquired was a McMillan A3 Tactical with custom options, which was later returned for factory Pillar Bedding. It was actually very generously donated to me by Kelly McMillan (and two or three more to other SH project participants, LowLight included) as part of the SH Ghost Dancer 260 Project back in 2001, but that could have been before your time. That stock remains in diligent use as a component of my Ghost Dancer 260 Project Rifle.
I see that you use McMillan handle? Related? If so, I have considerable personal gratitude toward the family.
My actual contention is that there are alternatives to the 'best at any cost' mantra that runs rather rampant on gun owner websites; which often smacks of conspicuous consumption. What others do is fine with me; and I'm not instructing others about what they should be doing, merely about what I do and my reasons.
Please; refrain from putting words in my mouth. Please...
..And Bravo4, I apologize and shall not be responding to your informational requests in the future.
I don't tolerate hostility.
No offense....
Greg
But if my post has irritated you, maybe some shoe or other fits.
As it happens; I can afford these things I but choose not to, mainly because I really don't have a need for what they provide. Those needs also require some agreement with my other half, whose funds accounts we both share, married 50 years in less than two weeks. We live on a fixed income, and I'm fortunate that my rather lavish guns spending ($1600 over the past two months) is agreeable with my soul's mate. I have maybe a unique definition of 'spending wisely'.
FWIW, the first aftermarket stock I ever acquired was a McMillan A3 Tactical with custom options, which was later returned for factory Pillar Bedding. It was actually very generously donated to me by Kelly McMillan (and two or three more to other SH project participants, LowLight included) as part of the SH Ghost Dancer 260 Project back in 2001, but that could have been before your time. That stock remains in diligent use as a component of my Ghost Dancer 260 Project Rifle.
I see that you use McMillan handle? Related? If so, I have considerable personal gratitude toward the family.
My actual contention is that there are alternatives to the 'best at any cost' mantra that runs rather rampant on gun owner websites; which often smacks of conspicuous consumption. What others do is fine with me; and I'm not instructing others about what they should be doing, merely about what I do and my reasons.
Please; refrain from putting words in my mouth. Please...
..And Bravo4, I apologize and shall not be responding to your informational requests in the future.
I don't tolerate hostility.
No offense....
Greg
Last edited:
So much hostility on this thread. I say to each his own with how people want to spend their money whether it be to buy multiple PSA rifles or 1 kac rilfe.
No hostility was intended at all. I don't beleive everyone needs high end rifles. A lot of people just like nice things. personally I tried the cheap rifle route. I owned over 30. I tried very hard to make it work for prs as well. But eventually I found I was spending way too much money and having way to many issues to continue without buying the best. I shot 6 prs matches last year and failed to finish a single match with a working rifle. I then sold every rifle that didn't have sentimental value and built 2 rifles. 1 full custom and 1 custom based off a tikka action. The tikka is a good trainer but it just isn't as reliable as the impact. I can now actually go to a match and actually concentrate on shooting rather than fixing my rifles
Read title...
Yup, your an idiot...
...now give me a minute to read the thread.....
Yup, your an idiot...
...now give me a minute to read the thread.....
What were your issues? I shoot a factory 700 action. I would be SHOCKED if it ever gave me trouble.
I had issues with a bergara related to being a rem700 clone. Long projectiles would slide forward in the mag and jam under the feed ramp.
I've had 2 factory triggers fail in 2 different matches. 1 resulting in a slam fire and me being dqed.
I ran a tac a1 which would fail to feed constantly in 6.5 creedmoor. That turned out to only be a problem if you ran 140 eldms. I sold it before we figured out it would run well with 140smks.
I broke an extractor.
I had poor ignition problems so many rounds wouldn't go off I ran out of ammo even tho I took 30 extra.. Rifle went back under warranty.
I had a clambering issue where I had heavy bolt lift even at uminum pressure.
I had bad rust in the chamber, so bad I couldnt extract rounds, of a 1 week old rifle that they refused to warranty because they dont warranty against rust.
I put 300 rounds through a rifle running it in a week before a match. Shot the practice day fine then first round of the match I couldn't open my bolt. Managed to pry it open. Fired a second round to confirm, same thing happend. Pulled the barrel and it had a huge gouge in the chamber. The brass was expanding into the gouge and wouldn't extract. That wasn't the rifles fault. Still haven't figured out why but just added to my bad luck.
When I changed to a 6br it took me a long time to get working mags.
I also had 4 scopes shit the bed in 12 months.
That's what I can think of off the top of my head. That's all behind me now
Holy shit dude!! That's a lot of issues lol...what scopes shit the bed...what happened?
I'm not going to name them because every one was very good with warranty and had new scopes in my hands in a week. It's not all bad Burris gave me a scope when they found out all the ones I had broke and sponsored me when I couldn't break a burris
The proper term for this condition is.....Lack of adult supervision in one's life. Thankfully, with any luck, it will be INCURABLE. But, I've learned to live comfortably with it. AW, life is good.
Do you know of any other companies that make accessories for their chassis? Like thumb rest, round quivers, etc... i didn't see a whole lot on their page
Many accesorries will uneversally fit many rigs, ie pic rails attachment etc. Many of us modify parts to work on our individule rifles. Try putting out a request for specific items on these pages, you'll get responces.
I think you will have no problems with Non Buyers Regret.
Thank you, this is a genuine relief. My various comments were a respectful recognition of several posters' comments.
We agree in larger part, with some minor variance as to how to make what we do happen.
For me, that tinkering and tweaking is a huge portion of my enjoyment. I agree that the low cost stuff can have less than ideal configurations; but on the whole, that provides a very affordable armature upon which to redevelop those configurations. My parts are where I invest with caution, so the resulting features that are employed are precisely as I desire. I also learn in the process; and a day without learning something, positive or negative, is a wasted day, I can utilize better triggers, extended bolt releases, stocks that suit my taller frame, construction techniques like lapped upper faces and lok-tite-ing barrel extensions, and many other details that I do without having to pay for. That's a wiser type of economy, IMHO. Every AR I own now has identical custom tailored ergonomics and operating controls. This minimizes dithering, allowing the shooter to cut directly to the chase. My rifles, as a whole, imbue a specific personality reflecting that of my own; keep it simple, keep it efficient, keep it effective. Each rifle is a system, complete with matched accuracy loads in adequate supply.
Only once have I had to redo something, that was not the fault of the equipment, and it provided opportunity to better resolve the issue's recurrence. Solving problems means fixing them, so they can't come back.
I don't have a gunsmith, I do that myself. I almost never buy rifle ammo, I do that myself; and even that for specific purposes like function and accuracy benchmarking. Handgun ammo, in my quantities, is cheap enough to forego handloading, but the ability and necessities are there anyway.
I rather doubt that anyone's missing my presence in their production queues.
Taken as a whole, the entire outcome allows instructive ventures into several chamberings and capabilities, while preserving operating ease and functionality. Also as a whole, the overall costs are so greatly reduced through the employment of sweat equity that I have easily doubled, or more, the platforms providing that enjoyment for a still lesser expenditure.
That same approach is reflected in my three entry-level F Class rifles, which are the source of my original posts on this topic. They reflect my skill level without reflecting any potential delusions of grandeur.
PRS is a unique animal, perched on the bleeding edges of challenge as well as equipage. IMHO, it's one of several ultimate offshoots of the shooting sports, like Palma, and Action Pistol. Kudos to those who have the spunk to step into that ring. The term Neo-Gladiator comes to mind; bringing PRS into the realm of a genuine sporting martial art. A Caesar could look upon it with considerable interest; although we're in the wrong country (world?) for that sort of attention.
I reluctantly retired from serious F Class competition a couple of years back. But the drive to set up and maintain rifles with my appropriately intermediate competitive capability remains.
These days, keeping busy under the roof is a mental preservation strategy that I employ with relish.
The each..., and with relish...
Greg
PS, I don't think there's hostility here, just expressing my preferences in its regard. IMHO contention and hostility are quite different things.
Last edited:
At 6 1/2ft tall and 150lb, not that many weeks...
My friends don't believe me when I tell them I'm not terminal, and that's been going on for near a decade.
Sigh...
My friends don't believe me when I tell them I'm not terminal, and that's been going on for near a decade.
Sigh...
I have had it a little over a yearnow. It tracks perfect, absolutely! I can out to 600, dial back down, perfect! I can dial to 300, then dial to 500, then dial to 800, back to 100, perfect!
The clarity is amazing, no tunneling, no ghosting, no parallax issues. Reticle is a little busy at highest magnification but I hang at 10-16 power all the way out to 1k. Shooting at 1,500 on full power you need a spotter on anything bigger than a 338LM because of recoil and getting back on glass. I can mostly spot myself threw the optic. When people say 40mm main tube doesn't make a difference, I say they are wrong. I see more threw the tube size. 150moa of verticle adjustment is unprecedented!
Similar threads
Precision Rifle Gear
Tango Innovations FIRE4000 WMLRF Initial Impressions
