Is it a reasonable desire for a relative amateur AR-builder to attempt to assemble a 1/2 MOA or better AR-15 from quality parts? I have finally broken down to the point where I want to make one to cherish for myself (not to be resold) and was looking at getting a CLE barrel and matched bolt, and I know that a tight-fitting receiver combo (and all parts really to ensure that the rifle doesn't shift around internally at all from the vibrations of the recoil impulse) and match trigger are needed but is there anything I'm not seeing that a gunsmith's involvement makes or breaks the rifle? I get that you wouldn't be able to check parts for tolerance but with good parts could you avoid that nearly entirely? If it is possible, what components are important and who should I look to when choosing them?
Gunsmithing Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
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Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
Make sure you have the right tools and blocks. Also, what will make it accurate are barrels and triggers....upper to lower fit doesn't have very much impact at all.
Get a good barrel and trigger. Get a good barrel and trigger. Stay away from "good deals" on parts kits. Cheaper Than Dirt is not the place for good parts kits......also get a GOOD barrel and trigger.
Make sure you have the right tools and blocks. Also, what will make it accurate are barrels and triggers....upper to lower fit doesn't have very much impact at all.
Get a good barrel and trigger. Get a good barrel and trigger. Stay away from "good deals" on parts kits. Cheaper Than Dirt is not the place for good parts kits......also get a GOOD barrel and trigger.
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
Solid copy on the barrel and trigger; I was planning to go with a Douglas SS chambered by CLE and a Giselle trigger. So what degree of precision of what parts turn a 1 MOA rifle into a 1/2 MOA rifle? I've begun truing my 700 (this will be a long winter break) and I can very much appreciate what it takes to make a bolt gun, but where the difference lies I'm not absolutely certain as there are so many more things that can change.
Solid copy on the barrel and trigger; I was planning to go with a Douglas SS chambered by CLE and a Giselle trigger. So what degree of precision of what parts turn a 1 MOA rifle into a 1/2 MOA rifle? I've begun truing my 700 (this will be a long winter break) and I can very much appreciate what it takes to make a bolt gun, but where the difference lies I'm not absolutely certain as there are so many more things that can change.
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Make sure you have the right tools and blocks. Also, what will make it accurate are barrels and triggers....upper to lower fit doesn't have very much impact at all.
Get a good barrel and trigger. Get a good barrel and trigger. Stay away from "good deals" on parts kits. Cheaper Than Dirt is not the place for good parts kits......also get a GOOD barrel and trigger. </div></div>
I agree 100%, If you want great go with a Mike Rock ABS wrapped, I have seen great groups from WOA and Novesky also but not as nice as those ABS barrels. Lot cheaper though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Make sure you have the right tools and blocks. Also, what will make it accurate are barrels and triggers....upper to lower fit doesn't have very much impact at all.
Get a good barrel and trigger. Get a good barrel and trigger. Stay away from "good deals" on parts kits. Cheaper Than Dirt is not the place for good parts kits......also get a GOOD barrel and trigger. </div></div>
I agree 100%, If you want great go with a Mike Rock ABS wrapped, I have seen great groups from WOA and Novesky also but not as nice as those ABS barrels. Lot cheaper though.
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
Build the rifle around the barrel- with good components. The trigger is also highly important, but often overlooked until EVERYthing else has been done and groups are not up to par.
Go with ALL good components, and match things up correctly. If yuo are hanging a heavy, long barrel off of it, het a good billet upper like a Mega to reduce or eliminate flex.
Once you have ALL of your quality components, then practice quality control and inspect stuff, make sure it is right, THEN use proper and qualitative assembly techniques and pay attention to the details.
Barrel/bolt and trigger.
AND DO NOT PUT A T-6 stock on a really nice rifle, it's like hanging a chandelier in the outhouse...........
Build the rifle around the barrel- with good components. The trigger is also highly important, but often overlooked until EVERYthing else has been done and groups are not up to par.
Go with ALL good components, and match things up correctly. If yuo are hanging a heavy, long barrel off of it, het a good billet upper like a Mega to reduce or eliminate flex.
Once you have ALL of your quality components, then practice quality control and inspect stuff, make sure it is right, THEN use proper and qualitative assembly techniques and pay attention to the details.
Barrel/bolt and trigger.
AND DO NOT PUT A T-6 stock on a really nice rifle, it's like hanging a chandelier in the outhouse...........
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
A good bit of advice I've heard over and over is to stick with basics until you can get the best. An A2 stock will provide a solid and consistent cheek weld until you can get a (insert whatever super high end stock). There are guys that shoot sub-moa with mil-spec trigger groups, and off the shelf bolts. Build a solid meat and potatoes rifle, learn to shoot it well, and then you can be objective enough to see the real advantages and performance improvements as you add high end components. Thats the best thing about the AR platform: Its like an adult leggo kit. What other platform can you go from 14.5" carbine to 24" varmint slayer in 1/2 an hour with hand tools and still get performance?
A good bit of advice I've heard over and over is to stick with basics until you can get the best. An A2 stock will provide a solid and consistent cheek weld until you can get a (insert whatever super high end stock). There are guys that shoot sub-moa with mil-spec trigger groups, and off the shelf bolts. Build a solid meat and potatoes rifle, learn to shoot it well, and then you can be objective enough to see the real advantages and performance improvements as you add high end components. Thats the best thing about the AR platform: Its like an adult leggo kit. What other platform can you go from 14.5" carbine to 24" varmint slayer in 1/2 an hour with hand tools and still get performance?
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
Your goal of a 1/2 MOA AR-15 is easy.
Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit Upper
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=271
Geissele Trigger
http://geissele.com/
Nosler Custom Competition 69g bullet loaded with 24.5g of Varget in a Lake City case
http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/223-Remington--5.56x45-NATO-69-Grains.aspx
Your goal of a 1/2 MOA AR-15 is easy.
Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit Upper
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=271
Geissele Trigger
http://geissele.com/
Nosler Custom Competition 69g bullet loaded with 24.5g of Varget in a Lake City case
http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/223-Remington--5.56x45-NATO-69-Grains.aspx
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kenda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A good bit of advice I've heard over and over is to stick with basics until you can get the best. An A2 stock will provide a solid and consistent cheek weld until you can get a (insert whatever super high end stock). There are guys that shoot sub-moa with mil-spec trigger groups, and off the shelf bolts. Build a solid meat and potatoes rifle, learn to shoot it well, and then you can be objective enough to see the real advantages and performance improvements as you add high end components. Thats the best thing about the AR platform: Its like an adult leggo kit. What other platform can you go from 14.5" carbine to 24" varmint slayer in 1/2 an hour with hand tools and still get performance? </div></div>
I really like this; my grandfather taught me how to shoot with an air rifle when I was 9 and my first rifle was a .308 700 with a cheap mildot scope that I got to learn LR precision so I could learn exactly what I needed. Would you then suggest a carbine or mid-length with iron sights to learn the dynamics of an AR and then figure out what will give me a good LOP, trigger control, cheek weld?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kenda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A good bit of advice I've heard over and over is to stick with basics until you can get the best. An A2 stock will provide a solid and consistent cheek weld until you can get a (insert whatever super high end stock). There are guys that shoot sub-moa with mil-spec trigger groups, and off the shelf bolts. Build a solid meat and potatoes rifle, learn to shoot it well, and then you can be objective enough to see the real advantages and performance improvements as you add high end components. Thats the best thing about the AR platform: Its like an adult leggo kit. What other platform can you go from 14.5" carbine to 24" varmint slayer in 1/2 an hour with hand tools and still get performance? </div></div>
I really like this; my grandfather taught me how to shoot with an air rifle when I was 9 and my first rifle was a .308 700 with a cheap mildot scope that I got to learn LR precision so I could learn exactly what I needed. Would you then suggest a carbine or mid-length with iron sights to learn the dynamics of an AR and then figure out what will give me a good LOP, trigger control, cheek weld?
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
CLE sells Krieger barrels also and I'd upgrade to one given the small incremental cost. Also, make sure you have them provide a bolt that has been headspaced to that particular barrel. Beyond that, use quality parts and assemble correctly. Here is a book that would be a great help to an accuracy-focused AR build:
http://www.zediker.com/books/BB/BB_main.html
CLE sells Krieger barrels also and I'd upgrade to one given the small incremental cost. Also, make sure you have them provide a bolt that has been headspaced to that particular barrel. Beyond that, use quality parts and assemble correctly. Here is a book that would be a great help to an accuracy-focused AR build:
http://www.zediker.com/books/BB/BB_main.html
Re: Amateur Precision AR-15 Building Questions
ar's are easy to get shooting well.. a good barrel, FF'ed and trigger.. not much more... lots of little thing to tweek more out of it like lapping the receiver, but not needed..
ar's are easy to get shooting well.. a good barrel, FF'ed and trigger.. not much more... lots of little thing to tweek more out of it like lapping the receiver, but not needed..
