Suppressors Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

[Banger]

I'm currently awaiting my first form 4 approval. With all this time on my hands, I can't help but ponder what exactly causes the wait.

When people post their own experience, they often do so in the following format:

Step 1 - Date forms sent
Step 2 - Date check was cashed
Step 3 - Pending Date
Step 4 - Approval Date
Step 5 - Date forms received

Steps 1,2,& 5 are self explanatory. However, what about steps 3 & 4 ? What happens to it to make it go to a "pending" Status ? Same for the "Approval" ? Are they performing background checks ? What exactly is the process ?

Just wondering

 

[OutlawTen5]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

There is only one person doing the paperwork for all of us!

Just kidding... there is only two

 

[Heronion]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

This is my understanding (limited, someone correct me if need be):

You mail the forms
the forms arrive at ATF
someone at ATF cashes the check *check cashed date*
your forms finally get delivered and logged to an examiner *pending date*
the examiner finally makes it through allllll the forms on his desk and gets to yours, does the checks and approves is *approved date*

I believe that is roughly the order of events.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

This might help a bit..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Amarament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As I understand the process (which could be correct or not),
1 the paperwork goes to Atlanta where the ATF cashes checks. (7-21 days here [mail/sorting/backlog/waiting for checks to clear]).
2 the paperwork gets put in a pile until ATF has a freight load of mail (2-4 weeks)
3 Mail is then trucked to Martinsburg (the NFA branch) [2 days]
4 Mail hits a sorting room at martinsburg and is sorted [3-14days]
5 Mail hits the examiners mailbox where it might sit for 2-4 weeks
6 fingerprint cards and passport photos get sent to the FBI? [1 week to get there and get sorted,3-4 weeks to process the background check]
7 fingerprint cards come back to martinsburg (1 week mail and sorting)
8 examiner approves paperwork and returns mail to SOT (14 days).

That's 22 weeks divide by 4 and you're at 5.5 months. It's actually taking ~6 months for individual form 4's so I've obviously been optimistic. </div></div>

 

[biffj]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

Actually as evidenced by previous experience, the forms go the bank in atlanta where your check is removed and cashed in record time. Check your account and you'll find that in many cases the check has cleared a day or so after you sent it. The forms are then noted as paid and sent off to martinsburg. It doesn't normally take more than a few days from the time you sent it til it gets to virginia. The waiting really starts now as the number of forms coming into NFA branch is huge. Your forms are worked in the order received and must be input into the system. This can take a long time when the piles are huge. Once logged into the computer they are listed as pending. Now the real wait begins.
We are down to 8 examiners as far as I know and in 2009 they did just under a million forms with 11 examiners. The number of forms for this year is already way above 2009 yet we have only 8 examiners. This means your forms sit in a pile waiting for someone to get to them. Examiners are assigned by state and each has more than one state to work. There are frequently problems with info on the forms being incorrect as they compare your form to the original registration. Things have been drifting over the years so that where your form says manufacturer is bob the next guy might have put bob thomas, the next Robert Thomas and so on. It may or may not be completely incorrect but if it doesn't match it gets kicked back. So now the examiner has to fill out another form to let you know whats wrong and all this goes to the mail room. When you correct it and send it back it goes back to the examiner rather than to the bottom of the pile but this interrupts other stuff in progress.......see a trend here?
Basic truth is not enough hands on deck to handle the storm. ATF has been allowed to hire new managers and attorneys but is prohibited by a hiring freeze to hire any people who actually do hands-on work. We're hoping this will change soon and NFA is trying to hire more people once they're allowed. For now though its simply too much work for too few people and thats where the time is going.

Frank

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

Well, I've just reconciled myself that mine won't get here until about 3 or 4 days before Christmas, so I'm just waiting on a fantastic Christmas present from myself.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

The ATF published numbers are FAR less than that for 2009.

The math doesn't hold water........If there was 1 million forms in 2009 for 11 examiners then that means thats 240 work days(no sick days) and 378 forms approved every day per examiner. Thats a full 8 hour day, no bathroom or lunch breaks and approving a form about every 40 seconds.

Can you provide the link to your source for 1 million forms in 2009?

 

[biffj]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

The form numbers are published somewhere by ATF. The handed out copies at Knob Creek in the fall last year and in previous years. I didn't go to the NFATCA meeting this year so I don't know if they handed out forms this year. I'll probably find out in Dec at the SAR show in Phoenix. The number of forms includes all the forms that NFA branch works, not just forms 1 and 4. They are also dealing with all the form 2's that we manufacturers file, form 3's to transfer between SOT/Dealers, form 5s for temporary transfers to repair, from estates to heirs or from govt entities like PD's to dealers or individuals, form 9's which are for export and form 10's for govt registration of otherwise contraband items. We are a small part of the total forms processed by NFA branch though we are a big part of the income. I've heard numbers from previous years but not seen anything in writing. If you really want confirmation of the numbers try contacting NFA branch or the NFATCA. Sometimes the NFATCA has info on their site. ATF does publish the info though its usually dated by the time we see it. They run on a fiscal year that ends in september....I think and it takes some time to tally up the numbers.
On the other hand. I've been to the NFA branch and seen some piles of paperwork. My understanding of the current situation is that the piles are on the floor and as tall as the desks now. The piles used to be on the desk. The time they spend on each form is pretty small but as you noted it allows them to process a lot of them. I'm not a fan of the system but I have seen how it works and its sad to see the folks who actually do the work being spit on. Most work hard and try to get the job done. There isn't any conspiracy to keep forms from being approved that I can see. Just huge numbers of forms to process.

Frank

 

[Loopm5]

Re: Anatomy of the Form 4 wait time

Here is something to scare you. THE BATF is closed till further notice!!!!! Because of the storm. Call if you like to find out.