• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :-)

Will Brink

Private
Minuteman
Oct 13, 2010
38
0
58
Hell (MA)
www.optimalswat.com
As most know who have been weight lifting for more then a few years, there is a general anti muscle bias that exists in the general (read fat and lazy) population and the media. There is even something of an anti muscle bias in science and medicine I find, even when study after study shows having more muscle then the average person offers many advantages from a health and performance perspective.

Modern medical science has finally caught on to the reality that muscle tissue is much more then just something that attaches to your skeleton to help you move your body or carry your groceries. It’s an essential part of your health, intimately connected to immunity as well as a long list of other benefits. A perfect example of that was found in a recent report called "Men with big muscles cut cancer risk by 40 per cent” (1) which covered an interesting study. From the media report:

“In recent years, experts have recommended a healthy diet and lifestyle - including regular aerobic exercise such as jogging or cycling to reduce the risks of the disease. But the latest study, published in the journal Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention, suggests it may be just as important to build up muscle strength. A team of experts, led by scientists from Sweden’s Karolinska Institute, tracked the lifestyles of 8,677 men aged between 20 and 82 for more than two decades.”

So far so good, and as the reader can see, a large study that ran a long time. The study found those men who regularly worked out showed significantly lower rates of cancer, and most interesting was the effect was constant “…Even among volunteers who had excess tummy fat or a high body mass index, regular weight training seemed to have a protective effect.”

However, and as one should expect, these researchers stressed keeping a healthy weight was still an essential part of avoiding various diseases. The researchers recommend regular weight training in light of these findings. But then, that odd anti muscle bias seems to creep in. Ergo, a spokesman for Cancer Research UK Health information officer Jessica Harris is quoted as saying “There’s no need to become a body builder. Just 30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week that leaves you warm and slightly out of breath can have a positive effect.”

There’s so many things wrong with the above, it’s hard to know where to start, but here’s some thoughts:

• There’s a looooooooooong way, time, and effort, between being a “bodybuilder” and “30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week that leaves you warm and slightly out of breath.”

• As anyone who has spent any time in a gym knows (and we all know that eliminates most scientists but I digress…) building muscle is not easy, so “30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week that leaves you warm and slightly out of breath” is not going to do jack you-know-what for actually increasing muscle mass. In fact, it may not even prevent the loss of muscle mass that happens with age, a condition known as sarcopenia. People interested in learning more about sarcopenia, can read my article on the topic here:

Sarcopenia: Treatment and Prevention

• No doubt, 30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week “that leaves you warm and slightly out of breath” is far more then most people get now, and would improve their health, but as it relates specifically to the findings of this study, the advice totally misses the mark in my view. The fact is, if a person is looking to actually have any real impact on muscle mass, they need to work with a minimum of 60% 1RM for beginners, and 80% 1RM for anything beyond beginners, on a regular basis. The data is quite clear on that fact, so some low intensity exercise that leaves one “warm and slightly out of breath” done for 30 minutes is advice that smacks of typical anti muscle bias found in much of the science/medical community and the media. It’s either bias, flat out ignorance, or both…God forbid, they may lift some heavy weights and end up looking like a bodybuilder!

• I’m sure the medical/scientific community does not want to scare people away from resistance exercise (e.g., weight training) by actually admitting they will have to work hard in the gym to actually see any effects on muscle mass and strength, but giving people faulty advice that will not lead to the results they want does not seem like a productive way to accomplish anything other then to confuse people.

• I know hard work is a four letter word these days, but there’s no free lunch, there’s no Santa, no Easter Bunny, and getting the known health benefits of muscle mass (not to mention the aesthetic benefits!) does in fact take dedication, a bit of thought and planning, and - sorry to say- hard work with loads/weights heavy enough to kick your a$$. Lifting a beer to my mouth a hundred times will leave some “warm and slightly out of breath” but it aint going to build any muscles!

See you in the gym!

(1) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...0-per-cent.html
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

Fitness Guru Dude,

Now I have questions.

1.) After this happens,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Brink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As most know who have been weight lifting for more then a few years </div></div>
How big can an average man get working out 3 days a week and eating OK? (I find that's the category most heath minded guys fall into.) On the extreme end, I am always amazed and disheartened by how small natural bodybuilders look...

2.) This is awesome info that I will take to heart:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Brink</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The fact is, if a person is looking to actually have any real impact on muscle mass, they need to work with a minimum of 60% 1RM for beginners, and 80% 1RM for anything beyond beginners, on a regular basis. </div></div>
How many sets / reps should I aim for with 80% of 1RM?

Thanks,
-Chris
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fitness Guru Dude,

Now I have questions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 1.) After this happens,
Will Brink said:
As most know who have been weight lifting for more then a few years </div></div>
How big can an average man get working out 3 days a week and eating OK? (I find that's the category most heath minded guys fall into.) On the extreme end, I am always amazed and disheartened by how small natural bodybuilders look... </div></div>

Not really a question that can be answered with any accuracy. Genetics differ, other variables come into play (other activities, training, diet, etc, etc). The "average" man can probably put on 30lbs of muscle over 3-5 years, and level out, but it varies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.) This is awesome info that I will take to heart:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Brink</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The fact is, if a person is looking to actually have any real impact on muscle mass, they need to work with a minimum of 60% 1RM for beginners, and 80% 1RM for anything beyond beginners, on a regular basis. </div></div>
How many sets / reps should I aim for with 80% of 1RM? </div></div>

Again, way too many variables to give a simple answer. Did you see:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2111973#Post2111973

I'll put more training related info up in the future, lots of training related articles on mt site also. You might want to get a program you can follow. If you are new to weight training, Starting Strength: by Rippetoe and Kilgore gets good feedback.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

+1 on Starting Strength. Rip knows his stuff. Very simple but effective program
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

Wouldn't say I'm new to it. I am more like most shooters at the gun counter. "I've been doing it my whole life". Even worked in gyms. But the reality is I really know very little about what I am supposed to be doing. My best results have come from BFL, Arthur Jones and creatine.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll check that link!
-Chris
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't say I'm new to it. I am more like most shooters at the gun counter. "I've been doing it my whole life". Even worked in gyms. But the reality is I really know very little about what I am supposed to be doing. My best results have come from BFL, Arthur Jones and creatine.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll check that link!
-Chris </div></div>

Your gun counter analogy is a good one and dead on. You'll find some good tips in the write up I linked. BFL is good general beginner stuff (I wrote chapter 11 if his prior book BTW) oriented toward weight loss. Sounds like you are ready to take it to the next level.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

It bugs the hell out of me with the mass of miss information that the medical community has in reguard to people who do more that sit on their ass and eat cake!!

I'm an amature body builder and this past year I took the first stage of my company physical 2 days before a show (Thursday) weighed in at 253lbs totaly depleated , did the show on Saturday came back for second part of the physical the folowing Tuesday and the company dr about shit to see that I had gained 26 pounds in less that a week (279lbs) , went on this big rant about how bad that was for me and that it shows that I have renal trouble BLA BLA BLA , i explained what i had done diet wise the last 2 weeks and tried to explail why i had rebounded like that and how i would shed 18-20lb of that in the next 3 days. Of course he said that was impossible and how i was gonna be sick and all the other BS , 4 days later I came back to show him and let him do another BP check as he stated that i was going to have cardiac stress from all the weight gain.
Weight at following vist 4 days later 260 even!!
Blood pressure 109/67 , pulse 53bpm.

Since then he is very very intrested in what I do and wants to track my diet and blood levels as they absolutly do not match up becuase my cholestrol is way low yet i eat a dozne whole eggs a day and 16oz of beef a day along with 16 oz of raw milk

basicaly if your a well conditioned persona that follows a good diet then the medical comunity is gonna think your a freak
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">basicaly if your a well conditioned persona that follows a good diet then the medical comunity is gonna think your a freak</div></div>

Which is awesome, and the goal that you should be achieving for. Great job! Im on my way there.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">weighed in at 253lbs totaly depleated </div></div>

Dude, how tall are you? 253 shredded... I wish!

-Chris
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

I'm 6'2" , no where near big enough for the national level and I don't want to be , coulden't afford the food Unfortunatly the last 15years Body Building has turned into who can be the biggest freak on stage and done away with symetery.

It bothers me that besides the medical community typical everyday people who don't workout look at those of us that do as freaks or self absorbed and vain.
I don't do this to impress anybody but myself and honestly i'm uncomfortable in public when I wear shorts or a shirts that semi tight which unless its a 3x its tight

I'm blessed geneticly , i come from a long line of big people so being big is easy for me , getting lean on the otherhand is a bitch and I wish people would endestand it doesn't matter how long your in the gym it boild down to nutrition
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

I love it when my friend Mark Rippetoe's name comes up. I trained with him for about 2 years when I lived in Wichita Falls. Good guy and he knows his business.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

JJ,
I know your pain, for years my old PD used BMI as a basis of fitness for everything from additional pay to even applying for SWAT. I was 6'0, 225lbs and about 12% body fat yet I was labeled "unhealthy" because my BMI was like 30 or slightly higher. The heaviest guy on the swat team was about 170lbs and when finally givn the chance to test I flew through the physical. They were shocked to find out a "two man" ram can be competently handled by one man when they are not built like a toothpick.
smile.gif


Now I trimmed down to about 195 and I do notice a difference in less knee pain when I run but I feel a significant difference in my ability to generate raw power.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norcal Phoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JJ,
I know your pain, for years my old PD used BMI as a basis of fitness for everything from additional pay to even applying for SWAT. I was 6'0, 225lbs and about 12% body fat yet I was labeled "unhealthy" because my BMI was like 30 or slightly higher. The heaviest guy on the swat team was about 170lbs and when finally givn the chance to test I flew through the physical. They were shocked to find out a "two man" ram can be competently handled by one man when they are not built like a toothpick.
smile.gif


Now I trimmed down to about 195 and I do notice a difference in less knee pain when I run but I feel a significant difference in my ability to generate raw power. </div></div>

I'm obese by BMI standards. How long do I have to live?
wink.gif
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Brink</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norcal Phoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JJ,
I know your pain, for years my old PD used BMI as a basis of fitness for everything from additional pay to even applying for SWAT. I was 6'0, 225lbs and about 12% body fat yet I was labeled "unhealthy" because my BMI was like 30 or slightly higher. The heaviest guy on the swat team was about 170lbs and when finally givn the chance to test I flew through the physical. They were shocked to find out a "two man" ram can be competently handled by one man when they are not built like a toothpick.
smile.gif


Now I trimmed down to about 195 and I do notice a difference in less knee pain when I run but I feel a significant difference in my ability to generate raw power. </div></div>

I'm obese by BMI standards. How long do I have to live?
wink.gif
</div></div>

Yea , the whole BMI thing is a load of crap. for the most part I don't trust any bodyfat reading unless i've been submerged in water. Last time I used one of the little hand held POS it ratted me at 16% yet I had striated glutes !! submersion test had me at 4.7%
Again it kills me to see the looks on peoples faces when we run or do things that "big" people arn't supposed to do , I guess cause you have muscle your not supposed to be limber or quick on your feet
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phantomdave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love it when my friend Mark Rippetoe's name comes up. I trained with him for about 2 years when I lived in Wichita Falls. Good guy and he knows his business. </div></div>

Thread revival...

I too have had the good fortune of training at Mark's gym for the past 6 months. Quite possibly the only good to ever come from even visiting Wichita Falls is the opportunity to train in that place. Serious gym for serious lifting, and Rip indeed knows his business.

Starting strength is a great book for those looking for a complete primer on strength training. Practical Programming is the sequel for the intermediate/advanced lifter.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

i agree heavy lifting is better than sitting on a couch and eating cakes and it can help you lift heavy things but if you don't raise your heart rate in training you WILL come up short in activities that raise your heart rate. i have seen people who are extremely powerful with muscles everywhere who proudly eat half a cow and skoll litres of protein shakes a day but can hardly breath after walking up a small hill, to me this is not a fit person. This is nothing against 'big' people or heavy lifting but i believe heavy lifting should be done as part of a fitness routine, not the be all end all of fitness training, regardless of wether you weigh 120lbs or 350lbs.
 
Re: Anti Muscle Bias Strikes Again! :)

its not about the size of the muscle its about the density and twitch speed that your able too achieve if youve got big muscles that look imposing that may work purely as a bluff against a coward. but the mma fighter is just gonna look at you and see an easy target becouse your slow and lactic acid will set in fast becouse your muscles are mostly water retention not actual muscle.. if your training for looks then expect to get your ass handed too you in a combat situation plain and simple.. however thats not to say big guys cant have speed or endurance look at brock lesnar for some one so huge hes got speed and those muscles are dense fast twitch fibres not the useless crap that most gym junkies create with there slow mechanical movements on gym machines.. as for the muscle bias it the opposite case here in aus theres massive water retaining spastics walking around in record numbers bulling the genral public and becoming consistant victims to the small percenage of the population who can actualy fight... its quite a spectacle