• The Shot You’ll Never Forget Giveaway - Enter To Win A Barrel From Rifle Barrel Blanks!

    Tell us about the best or most memorable shot you’ve ever taken. Contest ends June 13th and remember: subscribe for a better chance of winning!

    Join contest Subscribe

Any of you have kids with Autism?

ArcticLight

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 27, 2003
974
69
Silverdale, WA
I had a friend who took his kid in for the triple shot vaccination when the kid was 2 or so (?) - and 2 months later his kid goes dow nhill and was pronounced with having autism.

Wouldn't care had I never met him but he was a great dad..

SO I read this story where they really went out of their way to hammer ANY doctor that says yes, there is a link.

Maybe there isn't and it's a wild coincedence?

I have the DEEPEST respect for any of you parents that have autistic kids, OMG does that require patience and love - I was fortunate that my daughter was healthy, minus two open heart surgeries...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599195765600

<span style="font-weight: bold">
Doc Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical

In 1998, Andrew Wakefield, a gastroenterologist at London's Royal Free Hospital, published a study in the prestigious medical journal Lancet that linked the triple Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR) vaccine with autism and bowel disorders in children. The study - and Wakefield's subsequent public statements that parents should refuse the vaccines - sparked a public health panic that led vaccination rates in Britain to plunge.


Wakefield's study has since been discredited, and the MMR vaccine deemed to be safe. But now medical authorities in the U.K. have also ruled that the manner in which Wakefield carried out his research was unethical. In a ruling on Jan. 28, The General Medical Council, which registers and regulates doctors in the U.K., ruled that Wakefield acted "dishonestly and irresponsibly" during his research and with "callous disregard" for the children involved in his study. (See the year in health 2009.)


After the finding, Wakefield, who now heads an autism research center in Austin, Texas, described the decision as "unfounded and unjust." He added that he had "no regrets" over his work.


The General Medical Council, which will now decide whether to revoke Wakefield's medical license, highlighted several areas where Wakefield acted against the interest of the children involved in the 1998 study. It criticized Wakefield for carrying out invasive tests, such as colonoscopies and spinal taps, without due regard for how the children involved might be affected. It also cited Wakefield's method of gathering blood samples - he paid children at his son's birthday party $8 to give blood - and said that Wakefield displayed a "callous disregard for the distress and pain the children might suffer."


The panel also criticized Wakefield for failing to disclose that, while carrying out the research, he was being paid by lawyers acting for parents who believed their children had been harmed by the MMR jab.


The panel's ruling follows a refutation of Wakefield's research from the scientific community. Ten of 13 authors in the Lancet study have since renounced the study's conclusions. The Lancet has said it should not have published the study in the first place, and various other studies have failed to corroborate Wakefield's hypothesis. (Watch a video on the story of an uninsured woman.)


Despite this, the effects of the media frenzy surrounding Wakefield's research - a study found that MMR was the most written about science topic in the U.K. in 2002 - continue to be felt in Britain. Vaccination rates among toddlers plummeted from over 90% in the mid-1990s to below 70% in some places by 2003. Following this drop, Britain saw an increase in measles cases at a time when the disease had been all but eradicated in many developed countries. In 1998, there were just 56 cases of the disease in England and Wales; by 2008 there were 1,370.


Despite assurances from various health bodies that Wakefield's study was seriously flawed, he still has a dedicated following among parents concerned about a rise in autism rates in the U.K. and U.S. - the cause of which has so far baffled health experts. Wakefield is now the Executive Director of the Thoughtful House autism center in Texas, which the Times of London recently claimed receives millions of dollars in donations each year. At the ruling in London, Wakefield was flanked by a small group of supporters, some of whom shouted in protest as the ruling was read out. Speaking after the hearing, Wakefield remained unbowed, and addressed his supporters directly: "It remains finally for me to thank parents whose loyalty has been extraordinary, and I want to reassure them that the science will continue in earnest."

</span>
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

I have a good friend who has twins with autism. It takes a lot of love and patience. I think it's crap that people are unwilling to make connections where they obviously could exist. I'm willing to admit there's a good chance that it's a coincidence, but scientists and doctors are adamant that they can't be wrong. I think it's willful ignorance. Admittedly, there is so much we don't know about the human brain. It was a relatively short time ago that we knew very little about the shape of the earth, and scientists then were adamant that it was flat. Oh well, you can't draw comparisons like that without drawing fire from the people who know they're right.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

My wife was pretty pananoid about that.

We did not give our son any vaccinations until he turned two. We now give the as single vacs only (i.e. just the Measles, then just the Mumps, etc.) and we space them out at least 3 months apart.

I don't know if there truely is a connection or not...what I do believe is that introducing 10 or 15 toxins into a new, yet to be deleloped immune system all at once is not ideal.

My theory is: Give them the vaccines, but let their body adjust to one THEN give them another.

My wife works in a specialized child care facility that educates Autistic children (and many others). It truely is a challenge and takes a lot of patience and a lot of love.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My wife was pretty pananoid about that.

We did not give our son any vaccinations until he turned two. We now give the as single vacs only (i.e. just the Measles, then just the Mumps, etc.) and we space them out at least 3 months apart.

I don't know if there truely is a connection or not...what I do believe is that introducing 10 or 15 toxins into a new, yet to be deleloped immune system all at once is not ideal.

My theory is: Give them the vaccines, but let their body adjust to one THEN give them another.

My wife works in a specialized child care facility that educates Autistic children (and many others). It truely is a challenge and takes a lot of patience and a lot of love. </div></div>

Exactly. Whether it could be MMR, or could be MMR + something doesn't seem to be of great interest. You can't ignore stats just because you can't find an exact causal factor. Allergy rates are far, far higher in countries where everyone is innoculated. Coincidence? Maybe, but I doubt it. Can getting sick cause seizures? Yes. Does an immune reaction cause swelling? Yes. Could bombarding an immune system with a biologically impossible rate of exposure to dead or weakened bugs have an unanticipated "adaptation" as an occasional result? I think so.

We know vaccines work great for immunity. We don't know what they do in little tiny guys with immature systems because we can't possibly by irradiating 100's of infants for kicks and the results would mean diddly because their development varies tremendously. You can't compare on the same individuals later because anything adverse can't really be verified until much later. It's a crapshoot. Even if yound a single compound that autistic people had all been exposed to, it may be a lightning strike response to said compound. For example, there are folks that are happy, peaceful drunks that once in 1000 binges seem to lose it and go off on someone or get in a fight. Same chemical input, different result.

My kid got a few high-risk vaccines initially, but everything since is slow and done singularly like you describe. It's closest to how a kid would be exposed if for some reason he naturally crossed paths with a dozen of the worlds most dangerous pathogens in his first few years without the tribe dying off in the process, and in my mind implicitly better for being so.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Scientists had everyone in the world believing that global warming was real... Turns out they were consciously lying, what's to make me believe the same isn't happening here with MMR. Unfortunately I have to take my 2 month old in for this shot in a few minutes and the wife and I just had (still having) a major fight about it, she's a NICU nurse on top of it all so "she knows best".
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scientists had everyone in the world believing that global warming was real... Turns out they were consciously lying, what's to make me believe the same isn't happening here with MMR. Unfortunately I have to take my 2 month old in for this shot in a few minutes and the wife and I just had (still having) a major fight about it, she's a NICU nurse on top of it all so "she knows best". </div></div>

There is no way to tell at this point, but it would seem wise to acknowledge it is a highly "unnatural" act and should be treated with some caution at least. Even accounting for BS, autism still seems to be on the rise. Why? what changed over the last 150 years? Breeding habits have, and I think that's a big part, but we have very different environmental factors to look at too. One of them is obvious and easily addressed by staggering and ritarding the vaccines. To what detriment will someone object to doing so?

Ask her why your child needs it. Measles is exactly how prevalent in your town? Mumps? Polio, yeah that's like the common cold nowadays, gotta get loaded against that, right? Hep, you want me to innoculate him against hep at 1 day? Really?

If you don't plan on your little one exchanging fluids with cretons, most of the innoculations thrust upoon and into your child are of little practical value. They were good at different times for reducing infection rates when they were high, or mortality rates with them were high. Well, now they're down(though some are rising). They protect you from something that, practically for most people, doesn't even exist.

I haven't heard a compelling argument ever on why kids need so many, so fast. The bottom line is it is convenient for doctors to have easliy tracked and uniform schedules. It also makes economic sense to bundle them in one shot. I've never read the immunological case for it being better to get loaded all at once. OTOH, I have seen more and more regarding immune issues like allergies, inflamations, etc and docs becoming suspicious of the unintended impact of the recent practice of vaccines against the kitchen sink virus starting day one (and conversely how overly clean we keep things preventing normal immune development).
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

The problem with autism is that its medical definition is so broad.

Do NOT pass up vaccinations on the remote chance that they're tied into autism.

My wife had a patient whose parents felt that their first child's autism was a result of bad vaccines. So what did they do for child number two? They passed up vaccinations.

Result? A wonderful case of whooping cough that was only diagnosed because the mother brought in a videotape of her child when he was coughing his lungs out. In the office he looked normal.

Her failure to vaccinate her child exposed her entire family, everyone present in the waiting room as well as my wife and I to the virus. Yup, that medicine tastes like metallic ass.

Until I personally see some "I Am Legend" scenario take place in front of my eyes, I'll have to trust the vaccine makers.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

People seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between "correlation" and "causation".

Example: Most people with STDs report recently having sex on a bed. Ban beds! They cause STDs!

Autism occurred at the same age/stage of development before all of the vaccines, just less frequently. In addition to increased numbers of vaccines, our population has become increasingly urbanized and exposed to all sorts of chemicals and toxins. So why single out vaccines as the cause?

Same goes for the increases in allergies. It has paralleled the increased sterilization and over-protection of our kids. Studies have shown that having pets (which increase exposure of kids by dragging in all sorts of stuff) actually DECREASES allergies.

I find it interesting that you disregard the input of scientists when it is convenient for you, but accept that the computer on which you are reading this works (developed by scientists). Science is not perfect but it is a lot better than urban myths and unsupported conjecture.

Human memory is so short. We are now seeing a resurgence in many terrible diseases because of this faux hysteria over vaccines. Anyone who remembers their classmates going through polio in the 50s would not be so flippant about rolling the dice with their kid.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Interesting topic with a lot of debate on both sides of the MMR shot question.

Before she was 18 months, we noticed she was very quiet compared to her cousins and other babies. Took her to a neurologist at the advice of our pediatrician who was familiar with autism spectrum disorders. Neurologist couldn't pin it to anything but recommended a psychiatist specializing in autism treatment.

Long story short, the doc diagnosed her, we got her into several treatment programs with little success. Finally, a private school for autism spectrum children opened in Hawaii. Her first year there was traumatic with a crying kid at the end of the day. But there were outstanding therapist/teachers there who were reaching her and slowly we began to see progress. The school gave a lot of other parents with autistic kids hope that their kids could develop and find their way in this world

Through the years, she's come from completely non-verbal to bitching me out when I embarress her. (That's my job). We've had to fight our Dept. Of Education (DOE) for 12 years to provide for her education. Took them to court and won a big judgement.

Now she's a functional adult working to get her diploma. My job is to keep the DOE supporting her education at this private school under she gets that diploma. Then we'll see where she wants to go from there.

Bottom line - doesn't matter how she got to be autistic, just got to focus on how to beat it and give her the best chance at a good life.

Gunfighter
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I find it interesting that you disregard the input of scientists when it is convenient for you, but accept that the computer on which you are reading this works (developed by scientists). Science is not perfect but it is a lot better than urban myths and unsupported conjecture.

Human memory is so short. We are now seeing a resurgence in many terrible diseases because of this faux hysteria over vaccines. Anyone who remembers their classmates going through polio in the 50s would not be so flippant about rolling the dice with their kid. </div></div>

If "you" doing the disregarding is me, you need to reread what I wrote, especially given what you wrote about allergies, which was exactly what I wrote only using pets as a specific example. We keep our kids too clean and it;s getting implicated in a slew of problems. I argue with my wife about this constantly because she acts like our son's last name is Hughes.

Resurgence in most of the diseases has all of jack shit to do with americans not vaccinating and a whole lot to do with crap control of our borders. This applies to our massive increase in herpes and HPV as well. Who was our first swine flu death in the US? It wasn't a spontaneous occurence in a native.

IMO, injecting your kid with the number of shots they like to give now is far more flippant disregard than staggering them, as anyone with immune issues that may or may not have been inevitible would attest. Oh, and speaking of HPV, have you seen all the joys being experienced by underaged and uninformed girls trying to get their awesome new cervical cancer vaccine? Before you say something about cancer and being flippant... I've already survived that too. The science of vaccines is only that you probably won't get the disease you are being injected with. The side-effects range from zero to death, but the causal relationship with autism is not conclusive. Our understanding of both the immune system and the mind is sorely lacking, and I don't own my son's destiny. He can get all the vaccinations he wants as an adult, but until then I will administer the minimum required by schools, and in a manner which staggers exposures and delays completion.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Is this guy serious? I could have sworn people were just trying to say it's worth looking into.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between "correlation" and "causation".

Example: Most people with STDs report recently having sex on a bed. Ban beds! They cause STDs!

Autism occurred at the same age/stage of development before all of the vaccines, just less frequently. In addition to increased numbers of vaccines, our population has become increasingly urbanized and exposed to all sorts of chemicals and toxins. So why single out vaccines as the cause?

Same goes for the increases in allergies. It has paralleled the increased sterilization and over-protection of our kids. Studies have shown that having pets (which increase exposure of kids by dragging in all sorts of stuff) actually DECREASES allergies.

I find it interesting that you disregard the input of scientists when it is convenient for you, but accept that the computer on which you are reading this works (developed by scientists). Science is not perfect but it is a lot better than urban myths and unsupported conjecture.

Human memory is so short. We are now seeing a resurgence in many terrible diseases because of this faux hysteria over vaccines. Anyone who remembers their classmates going through polio in the 50s would not be so flippant about rolling the dice with their kid.</div></div>
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now she's a functional adult working to get her diploma. </div></div>



THAT is out-freakin-standing!

I only wish that some of the parents with kids at my wifes school were as willing as you to ensure that thier children had a shot at a great future.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Disregard scientists?
Are these the same scientists that could not make the data fit on the global warming conspiracy? (Yes the planet is warming, no it's not caused soley by mankind).


Back to topic - IF as was said above there is a combination factor and it's ONLY prevelant in CERTAIN kids with certain genes then wouldn't it be prudent to test separating the vaccines? IF that's the case and they are working on it then why is it not published that "Hey w'ere looking into that".

I find 5000 "Coincedences" a year to be a bit too much.

Can't hurt - but if a scientist doesnt' say it then you dont' want us to believe it?

Last scientist I heard said Jesus Christ never existed either.
He wasn't here to verify that theory.

Scientists have their place but the MUST keep an open mind...

Even the astrophysists keep an open mind - love listening to their lectures on Discovery.


Usually doctors and scientists argue this, but you cannot discount coincedence.

I'm just saying..
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this guy serious? I could have sworn people were just trying to say it's worth looking into.

</div></div>

Well that's exactly my point...it HAS been looked into. More then ten years and millions of dollars have been put into trying to replicate the results of the retracted study...to no avail. Multiple attempts came back with no linkage. So they dug deeper into the original study methodology and found that this unethical individual twisted the data much like the climate scientists Arctic Light references. They guy scared millions of parents into not vaccinating their children, leading to deaths. That's a little worse to me than giving Al Gore fodder for his agenda.

Arctic Light, so your position seems to be that since a few climate scientists twisted the data we are to disregard science whenever it is convenient to us to avoid challenging our usually ill-informed and uneducated preconceived notions? Then what are we to base our opinions on, urban legends, rumors, and internet message board opinions? Science may have bad apples like any other profession, but this case points out the self-correcting nature -- findings require validation, and if multiple other attempts cannot validate your findings they are invalidated and typically retracted. That is exactly what happened here, good science corrected the bad. It bit those climate scientists in the ass too now.

As for "5000 coincidences being too many" you're going right back to my point. Autism has historically occurred at the same age, even before thimerosol-containing vaccines came onto the scene. Yet because they happen at the same time you are convinced they are linked --- just like my bed and STD example. Studies compare groups that both did and did not receive vaccine, and did and did not develop autism, and use statistics to search for a linkage. Multiple studies have failed to find one. Not even a trend. The fact that autism happens to occur around the same time as vaccines prove nothing. It also happens around the time kids start walking; does walking cause autism?

Kids died as a result of this purposely flawed study. Period. We are not seeing a resurgence in disease because of "uncontrolled borders", it is because a growing percentage of the population is unprotected and the offfending viruses were never 100% eliminated nor can they be realistically.

Regarding the cervical cancer vaccine, every drug ever conceived has side effects. The question is, is the benefit greater than the risk? In the case of this vaccine they weighed the frequency and severity of side effects against the number of fatal cancers prevented and found the vaccine to be beneficial. This does not mean a small number of specific individuals will not experience a negative impact, but that when given to a population the net effect will be overwhelmingly positive. People die from Tylenol yet it is still on the shelves and you probably take it because the benefit it provides overwhelms the small number of serious adverse events.

Delaying vaccines can be deadly. When I was a child I contracted measles before I got the vaccine and it almost proved fatal. If a specific child has factors that may make you worry about the risk/benefit ratio of giving the vaccines as prescribed vs spreading them out, talk to your doctor and understand which ones are more important to get first and which can be pushed back a little. Don't rely on crap you read on the internet that spooks you.

MTA: I DO discount coincidence. Coincidences are worthless when millions of dollars and multiple studies show no correlation (ie cause-effect).
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

charlatan.jpg
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Jenny Macarthy the Playboy Playmate of the year has written a very detailed book about autism, she has been on numerous talkshows and all. Here son has autism and it talks about foods, excercies etc..>>> Maybe something to look into.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

I always look to celebrities for answers to scientific questions. They obviously know more than the groups that study this stuff for a living.....sheesh.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WICKEDFISH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jenny Macarthy the Playboy Playmate of the year has written a very detailed book about autism, she has been on numerous talkshows and all. Here son has autism and it talks about foods, excercies etc..>>> Maybe something to look into. </div></div>

Speechless.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was meant sarcastically. Why one would take advice on a serious medical condition from someone whose primary training is showing their boobs, I cannot fathom.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

There is no correlation between MMR vaccine and the risk of autism in children. There is a direct correlation between lack of MMR vaccine and infection with measles, mumps, and rubella in children.

These are FACTS. In a perfect world, people would make decisions based on facts, not fear. Alas, we do not live in a perfect world. :-|

-DJR

p.s. And please DO NOT start talking about power lines and cancer!!!
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

OK SO "SOME" Kids get it, but scientists can't replicate it , yet..

IF there is a specific gene, or something that has not been found, there should be an open mind to say "Hey".

It could very well be that the kids will get autism either way - or it could be ac ombination factor and until you find the cause of autism (Maybe they have?) then how can you say whether the shot "COMBINATION" Does not matter?

To me it would be great to see results of a study group of say 5000 kids - all 5000 are given the 3 shots SEPARATELY - count how many cases of autism.

Now take 5000 kids and give the cocktail - how many get it.

If the numbers match I'm convinced.

It's not a conspiracy theory but the doc in teh article should have maybe suggested separating the vaccine period vs NOT getting one.

Now for docs that say Essiac is snake oil and can't stop cancer - have seen it twice now work - where normal Chemo therapy is recommended (at $5000 a whack).

The world has a LOT of natural cures for stuff, if this Jenny gal can find one for autism based on diet etc - publicize the shit out of it.

Science has it's place, I just don't like to see closed minded scientists that say "It can't happen"...


My girlfriend was in a car wreck in 1990, the Docs all said "She will be brain dead"...

SHe has 2 cl asses to go until she gets her masters, and she loves to shoot - docs were wrong...of course they also said she'd never walk or talk again either, wrong again.


There are a lot of them.


As for global warming, archeologists have shown we went through global warming many times - and in EACH case, and this is scientifically proven, the C02 comes AFTER the warming.

We are warming as a planet, I"m justsaying did we cause it?
Certainly aren't helping it.

In the 1980's a study found that one airliner leaving Sea-Tac airport dispensed as much c02 and unburned gas asd id the ENTIRE traffic on i-5 for one day.....that was proven but I didn't see any cutbacks on airlines....too political and too costly to fight those money machines...


Point made I hope - keep working doctors and scientists, just keep an open mind!
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WICKEDFISH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jenny Macarthy the Playboy Playmate of the year has written a very detailed book about autism, she has been on numerous talkshows and all. Here son has autism and it talks about foods, excercies etc..>>> Maybe something to look into. </div></div>

Speechless.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was meant sarcastically. Why one would take advice on a serious medical condition from someone whose primary training is showing their boobs, I cannot fathom. </div></div>

No, my buddy that I mentioned has found the same thing - some foods seem to bring his son out a bit more than others...is it factual, no, does he see a perceived difference, sure absolutely.

She may be showing her boobs 2 hrs a day but the other 22hrs she seems to be a mother..
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

My son doesn't have it, but I do. It's only mild autism or as it's commonly known nowadays as aspergers. I know it's not curable yet, but with proper conditioning, it's easy to live with.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In the 1980's a study found that one airliner leaving Sea-Tac airport dispensed as much c02 and unburned gas asd id the ENTIRE traffic on i-5 for one day.....that was proven but I didn't see any cutbacks on airlines....too political and too costly to fight those money machines...
</div></div>

This is EXACTLY the kind of totally illogical crap that the anti-gunners use against us, but we seem to have no problem using the same tactics when it suits us.

DO THE MATH! The very biggest airliners can carry ~70k gallons of gas, while the typical domestic jets burn less than half of that (and we're talking at maximum range). How many cars use I-5 every day in Seattle? A 5-second Google search says 130K per day over a single stretch between Spokane St and I-90.

If you start with the assumption that nobody driving on I-5 burns more than 1/2 a gallon of gas AND that every jet taking off from SeaTac is a superjumbo going as far as it can fly, then your "proven" statement is correct.

-DJR
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

To me it would be great to see results of a study group of say 5000 kids - all 5000 are given the 3 shots SEPARATELY - count how many cases of autism.

Now take 5000 kids and give the cocktail - how many get it.

If the numbers match I'm convinced.

Now for docs that say Essiac is snake oil and can't stop cancer - have seen it twice now work - where normal Chemo therapy is recommended (at $5000 a whack).

The world has a LOT of natural cures for stuff, if this Jenny gal can find one for autism based on diet etc - publicize the shit out of it.

Point made I hope - keep working doctors and scientists, just keep an open mind! </div></div>

The problem is that you are ignorant of the study methods involved. Now before you got all hot and bothered because I called you "ignorant", recognize that I am not using it in a derogatory way; we are all ignorant about some things and educated on others. It is clear you are not a scientist nor have had advanced education in statistical methodology. That is not a nock on you, it simply is not your area. I am ignorant on computer networking, that does not make me stupid just not your go-to guy if you have a networking problem.

What you need to realize is that they HAVE exploited populations of children in ways that would reveal the connection you have convinced yourself exists based only on layman's case-study correlations and a publication that has been fully discredited. People that DO understand how to ferret out such connections have looked at this time and time again for 10 years and found NO causation between vaccines and autism.

You refuse to believe this because you cannot understand the methods used. This doesn't make them wrong.

Regarding your cancer example, if there were a cure for cancer do you honestly think there would be a conspiracy to hide it? Even from the most ruthlessly unethical perspective, it would be worth a fortune to the first to bring it to market. Isn't it convenient that all these supposed natural "cures" either refuse to put themselves to rigorous scientific examination (because they know they would fail) and those that HAVE been investigated have indeed proven to be "snake oil"? So you saw it work twice...how do you know it worked? Absolutely nothing else was being done for this person at the time? Did you have a control group to prove the effect?

Scientific studies to prove the activity of anti-cancer agents use HUNDREDS of patients. Why? Because you can't tell anything from TWO. Just as easy could have been coincidence. I know this because I have dedicated my entire professional life to trying to develop better treatments for cancer. I get sick every time I see someone peddling false hope and some patient falling for it and passing up treatment when their cancer was still curable, only to come back later when it is too late having been swindled by some "natural" therapy that did not work.

There is a special place in hell for people like Suzanne Sommers who are intellectual dimwit celebrities yet make money off convincing people they know anything about serious diseases. Her book will undoubtledly lead to the unnecessary deaths of women with cancer who are either dumb enough or desperate enough to believe her.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

my ex girlfriends 6 year old son had autism...i wanted to end the relationship during the second month, but i got too attatched to her son....we have been broken up for 7 months now, but me and her son still hang out..

bench
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My TMPA lawyer's kid has autism. My hats off to anyone who is going through that. </div></div>
i have never met my TMPA lawyer....i have spoken to him a few times though..seems like a cool guy..

bench
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Vaccinations subject children to 15-20 different immune-response stimulating proteins. They (and we) are naturally subjected to upwards of 15K unique varieties of these per day. It is but a drop in the ocean.

The "correlation" between vaccines and autism is a question of timing. Vaccinations happen around the same time that physicians start diagnosing autism. That is why the current trend in pediatrics is to start autism screening much sooner, and also to alter the vaccination schedule -- to remove the link, which exists entirely in peoples' minds.

This isn't like global warming at all. "Climate Scientists" are political activists who are mediocre scientists at best.

Autism is a terrible condition. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But there is quite conclusively no link to vaccines. On the other hand, there is a causal link between vaccines and the virtual elimination of childhood disease epidemics.

I don't think that advocating for the increase of childhood mortality from preventable illness is very responsible, and apparently -- finally -- neither does Lancet.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

I have a 4 year old little boy that has Septo-Optic Dysplasia along with Optic Nerve Hypoplasia. In short he is missing his septum pellucidum in his brain, which was described to me as a membrane that seperates the vetricals in his brain, and his optic nerves didn't develop during the pregnancy so they are too small to let any light through from his eyes to his brain so as a result he is totally blind. The type of Septo Optic Dysplasia that he has can can result in severe retardation or can cause no problems at all or anything in between and obviously the blindness causes problems all in it's own. My son is a twin and his twin sister was perfectly healthy. It is obvious that he has some delays because he is pretty far behind his sister developmentally. Many of the symptoms of Septo Optic Dysplasia are very similar to those of Autistic children so I can definately relate to parents with Autistic children! As for what caused his condition, who knows. I adopted my children and I got them the minute they were born so I know that their medical care from that point was good. However, the birth mother received very little, if any, prenatal care. I do know that she didn't even see a doctor until she was about 34 weeks along! The pediatric neurologist said that it was probably nothing that the birth mother did or didn't do that caused this condition, that is something that just happens. Anyway, my thoughts and prayers go out to parents of children with conditions like these. It can definately be tough!
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WICKEDFISH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually Jenny Mccarthy as written alot of books on the subject, and set up different foundations, for the 2 einsteins DOGTOWN and ATH, you should read more before making comments.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6eWKBg&usg=AFQjCNG46rleC6cKwY9C-gQCk1MfKgfOSQ </div></div>

Because a Playboy model writes books and has the money to start foundations, I should give two hoots? What are her medical and/or scientific credentials to have any credible opinion in the matter? Is this what our society is coming to, having a nice enough chest to becomes famous is enough to make them more reputable on a serious and tragic disease than people who dedicate their lives to studying them?

Does that really sound remotely sane to you?
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

Instead of blabbing about what you dont know about, why dont you goolge her and just see who knows more about the subject you or her, I was just passing on info that I know he may be able to use, not stepping on his thread because she was a centerfold. Supidity is a right,but you should not abuse it.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyway, my thoughts and prayers go out to parents of children with conditions like these. It can definately be tough! </div></div>

Bless you and your family sir. I mean that.

Threads like these often tell me more about who's the better person than any other thread.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
She may be showing her boobs 2 hrs a day but the other 22hrs she seems to be a mother..
</div></div>

Exactly. Mother. Not epidemiologist. Not Neurologist. Not even toxicologist. Everyone loves to laugh at Al Gore for acting like he knows what's what regarding global warming when he's really just a glad-hander. Why does this chick get treated like Francis Crick because her book publisher put together a website?

Vaccinations are a public health issue. They are not 100%, but so long as EVERYONE gets them then exposure stays so limited that they are effective. We start getting 20-30% of the kids out there running around unvaccinated for Mumps then the other 70% are being put in harms way through no fault of their own.

http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?id=1725
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyway, my thoughts and prayers go out to parents of children with conditions like these. It can definately be tough! </div></div>

Bless you and your family sir. I mean that.

Threads like these often tell me more about who's the better person than any other thread.
</div></div>

Thank you Shaggy! In spite of my little boy's condition, he's a very healthy happy little boy so it could definately be alot worse! I know there are alot of parents that have children that are far worse off and my heart goes out to them!
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WICKEDFISH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Instead of blabbing about what you dont know about, why dont you goolge her and just see who knows more about the subject you or her, I was just passing on info that I know he may be able to use, not stepping on his thread because she was a centerfold. Supidity is a right,but you should not abuse it. </div></div>

That's my point. I'm a molecular and cell biologist and you're telling me I should listen to a Playboy model about medicine? That's just assinine. If I want to know about poses or bad acting I'll look her up, those are her specialties.

Regarding kids with autism, it is a miracle that with the complexity a fetus and baby must go through to develop such a very high percentage of us turn out normal. Simply amazing.

My cousin has severe autism and it was a big challenge for his parents. The unconditional love of a parent for a child is perhaps most evident in cases like this and my heart goes out to them. Don't interpret my short temper for people who place false guilt on parents for having their children vaccinated as not caring for the parents, it's quite the opposite. This guy frauded tens of thousands of parent of autistic children into thinking it was something they could have prevented when, in all probability, no one could have done anything.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

I will preface the following statement with this;

I dont have a degree in any medical sceinces arena or statistics but I am a father of 2 young boys.

Statistically measels and mumps would do cathostropic damage to any child that is unfortunate to contract it... It happens on a daily basis globally.

How many MMR vacinations are done on a daily basis with no ill effects... probably hundreds of millions... 5000 recorded side effects recorded are a statistically very small percentage.. I dont for a second minimise the trauma that a autistic child can have on a family if the child develops it but ask yourself one very simple question..

WOULD ANY OF YOU RISK YOUR OWN CHILD CONTRACTING DISEASES LIKE RUBELLA AND MEASELS BECAUSE YOU DIDNT LIKE THE VACINATIONS. PHYSICALLY AND DEVELOPMENTALLY IT CAN DEVASTATE CHILDREN...

I got my kids the swine flu vaccine. yes, there were lots of media stories that the jab wasnt fully tested,, eetc etc... However I would rather risk that than have my child die a slow painful death from swine flu...

Unfortunately and I dont say it lightly.. Mother nature is fucking bitch...! Any one of us can go to the range tomorrow and get hit by an Ad and die.. Doesnt matter how experienced any of us is with firearms. if its your time , its your time...
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's my point. I'm a molecular and cell biologist and you're telling me I should listen to a Playboy model about medicine? That's just assinine. If I want to know about poses or bad acting I'll look her up, those are her specialties.
</div></div>

Let's be fair here. If you knew shit about autism, you'd have cured it. Your specialty is no more relevant and if anything it blinds you because you want a tidy solution. Nobody knows anything important about autism.

Autism is a spectrum of mistaken expression. Between normal and fully dysfunctional internalization lies a line where people can still work out. Some people claim their kids cross that line at a distinct point in time. They also claim, and can be shown correct in their observation, that their kids seem to improve with fevers sometimes. Weird, unexplainable. We can also induce Aspergers like behavior with drugs, but not a cure is to be found in those drugs' "opposites." Bottom line, the brain is absurdly complex. Autism used to be called engineer's disease, because it was observed amongst the offspring of lefty brained engineers. Nowadays people breed more often with like-talented folks within their major or even workplace. I think that lack of diversity is causing a high defect rate. OTOH, there are also autism pockets.. wtf? Again, too complex.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Let's be fair here. If you knew shit about autism, you'd have cured it. </div></div>

So if you knew shit about shooting, you'd have to be the F-Class national champion then?

Logic like that makes reading the rest of your post unneeded.
 
Re: Any of you have kids with Autism?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

OTOH, there are also autism pockets.. wtf? Again, too complex. </div></div>

OK, last time then I'm leaving this one to the ignorant.

Autism clusters have been studied (by people who actually know how to do such a study) and there are 3 very clear correlations to these clusters:

1.) At least an upper-middle class income.
2.) Parents with higher education.
3.) Proximity to an institution specializing in autism.

NO correlation to environmental factors, or vaccinations, or anything else statistically significant. In other words, there are clusters of diagnosis, but not disease.

Go put your head back in the sand and pretend that all scientists are always wrong. Just because Joe Public believes that the world is flat or that the sun goes around the earth does not make it true. Don't believe in global warming? Fine, go ahead and roll the dice, but please remember: Darwinism is a HARSH mechanism for separating the winners from the losers.

I'll go back to my career in drug development and continue to try to help people like ATH cure cancer in those that are smart enough to get treatments that have been studied and proven to work.

-DJR