Anyone have LMT 13.5" Upper on a Mega Ambi Lower with sig arm brace?

[Redman797]

I am interested in building a 308 pistol for fun, no real purpose for me other than because it seams like a cool toy to add to the collection, but before I drop a few grand into a system to complete it, does anyone here have a Mega Ambi lower with Sig Arm Brace on it, and a LMT MWS 308 13.5" upper with either a MK6 1-6 or elcan 1-4?

I can't find pictures of one, I know they will fit together, so that's not an issue, I am just trying to get an idea of how this setup would look.

I know it sounds picky, but I'm a visual person, so until I see it, I just can't put it together. Even went so far as to print out pictures, cut them out and lay it out.... If you're wondering how that worked out, I'm still looking for a picture of the setup.

I know some of you guys here have em, but the trick is finding someone with the PISTOL mega lower...

 

[Cobracutter]

Sounds like a waste of money. 308 under 16in horrible to say the least.

 

[Winny94]

Sounds like a blast if you have the disposable income. I don't have that set-up but if you go forward w/ it, please post pics.

 

[Hootiewho]

I had a SCAR H CQC with 13" barrel. Before you sink money into this, try to locate a range with a SBR 308 rental and give it an honest go. The blast is obnoxious. My rifle was extremely handy, but the blast/flash made it unpleasant. You can suppress it, but by that time you are back up to 18-20" and it is still loud considering. Having had a good bit of time on said gun, I would stick to 16-18" minimum on a 308 barrel. Once the novelty wears off the 13" barrel will be on the EE. Trust me. Even if I had to do 80% of my time shooting in a cqb enviroment and had to run a 308 I'd make a 16" gun work for me somehow. I have run the 13" gunin a shoothouse. No thanks. Been there and done that. It's like setting off a flashbang with every trigger pull. Mine was so bad, at a local match I run, guys would ask me to please bring something else to shoot.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Gotta go with Cobracutter on this one!

 

[Redman797]

It's gonna be a fun gun, and somewhat of a close range / home defense (yes im aware a handgun or shotgun will do the job). If I wanted something super accurate, I'd pull out an OBR or a GAP10, SR-25, etc.... I want something compact, and considered a pistol (which is concealable), I don't feel like going through the NFA process again...

Don't care how bad the muzzle report is without a can since it will have a saker 7.62 on it. The reason I wanted a shorter barrel was because with a can on it, it will be shorter overall, only by maybe 3 inches if I went with a 16, but still you could always make the argument well a 16" barrel to a 20" barrel is only 4 inches, and it's a clearly bigger difference in maneuverability, other reason for it being so short is because it will be stored in a discreet case I have already picked out for it. I've cleared rooms with a MK17 as well as M110's, I feel like the build I am doing is going to be fine for what I want out of it.

the 13.5" LMT factory built upper with the 1/11.25 SS barrel that I shot, is plenty accurate for what I require. I was using 168gr TAP, but that's what's gonna stay in it anyways.

 

[Cobracutter]

It's a bad idea because .308 BLOWS ballisticaly under 16 inches. 100% waste of money.

You are making nothing but noise and flash. Half of your powder is being burnt up OUTSIDE of the barrel. People have tried running them, FAL shorties..SCAR17 Shorties and they all are shit.

If you want something small, then stick with 5.56 or 7.62x39. x39 works great out of a 10" barrel so buy yourself a Pap M92 and go to town...... Look, I just saved you $2K.

It would be pissing money down the drain to drop $1.5 /rnd ammo while simultaneously pissing away any ballistic advantage of .308. 5.56 penetrates armor better anyway....speed wins.

If you want more OMHHFF, then build a 50BW or .458 Socom.

 

[Redman797]

You do realize like I said, this isn't going to be a long range gun.

I won't be planning on shooting anything outside of about 30-40m at MAX and more likely about 5-20m. I don't own any AK's because I don't like that weapons platform. I don't own anything else .30 cal except other 308 gas guns and 308 Win, 300 win mag, and 338 lapua bolt guns, so 7.62x39 is not something I want to get into, I'd have to buy mags, ammo, and learn to deal with a new system I already know I don't like. I am comfortable with the AR platform, have plenty of 308 mags and X50 drums, ammo, and trigger time on the SR platforms. Surprisingly don't own a shotgun, and just want a compact, 308, short barrel (pistol with 11-13" barrel), that will have the LAW folding mechanism on it, so when stored its about 25" folded, but will have an arm brace on it. It will be stored in a pretty badass discreet violin case, and will sit with LAW Folding adapter in the locked position when at home, condition 1.

I do not want another caliber, nor do I want to get into something that's like $5.00 a round for 458 SOCOM, although it's pretty sweet. I have a line on A LOT of 308 win ammo and thus the reason, I hadn't initially listed all my needs, likes, dislikes, preferences, or current situation for ballistics because I was only looking for a picture...

I don't really need armor piercing capabilities, but lets face it, a few quick rounds of 308 at about 5m is going to punch through most stuff out there with the exception of ESAPI's Maybe. Even if they had ESAPI's 308 at 5m is gonna put them on their asses and then just go to a failure drill.

Just looking for a pic, but looks like I'll post one when I order it and its complete. FT/LB energy will be much higher for 168gr TAP than 77gr Tap at 5-15m as well..

what's waste of money for you, might be totally justified by someone else

 

[Redman797]

ALSO from my understanding, 168gr TAP in a 308 AT muzzle is around 2700 FT/LBs of energy, whereas 77gr TAP out of a 5.56 at the muzzle is around 1300 FT/LBs AT the muzzle, so for close ranges, again NO MORE than 30-40m more likley around 5-15m, 308 with 168gr TAP would be twice as effective with a bullet weight that is over twice the weight. Again, I am not looking for a 100yard gun, I won't be using it at that distance, this gun has a specific niche for me.

If I am off of my understanding of ENERGY out of these two calibers, then I have to rethink my options, and would be open to going with a 5.56mm in a 10.5" upper, but from what my understanding of the ENERGIES of these two, in the calibers I ALREADY OWN, the 308 would be the better choice.

I didn't state what I was really intending it for or what the deal is with everything, but here is what I was thinking, so correct me if I am wrong here please.

I am building a PISTOL AR. For this purpose I am most familiar and comfortable with the AR battery of arms. I am building a home defense pistol that has rifle velocities and energies. I own the following calibers and have ammo for the following calibers, and DO NOT want to get into another. .22LR, 9mm, 5.56mm, 308 Win, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua. So it would have to be one of those. I am shooting for the purpose of THIS firearm, WITHIN 30-40m being MAX RANGE. I DO NOT have to worry about shooting something with over penetration because of lack of neighbors or other property other than my own being damaged. I want something that will put someone on their ass the fastest and MOST effective possible with the calibers I already own. I want to be able to travel with it CONCEALED if I so choose (not saying I would, but want the option). I want to be able to store it in something that is only about 25" when I do (I will be adding the LAW folding buffer tube adapter to it so it reaches this).

NOW, understanding a little better what I would like out of this (as well as to have a fun little toy to shoot cans, and practice with doing drills, in vehicle, my little shoot house, and at the range), would a 13.5" SS 1/11.25 rifled 308 AR pistol, not be the best choice for THIS specific niche? Again, if it was 100m-1000m I'd be using a different 16-18" gas or bolt 308, which I own, but I DO NOT own a 308 or 5.56mm Pistol yet, and so I had planned on building it soon.

Thanks, also pics would be awesome of someone who has an LMT 13.5" pistol with sig arm brace.

 

[Cobracutter]

You sound like a 18 year old ignorant boot. No offense.

It has nothing to do with long range, it has to do with anemic ballistic performance. You have a Big/heavy/expensive gun and you are taking away the only reason to have it in the first place.

There are MUCH more practical and wise options. After you realize how stupid this idea is (if you make it that far), you will be stuck with an undesirable, unreliable gun and will lose money when you try to sell it.

You aren't going to see many pictures because frankly, Most people who can afford to drop that kinda coin on a useless rig, are smart enough to know its a waste of money and effort.

A SBR length 5.56/6.8SPC/6.5G/300WHisper is magnitudes better for short range engagements. .308 out of a shorty becomes a HEAVY/EXPENSIVE/RIDICULOUS CONCUSSIVE 7.62x39. It's like dropping a Prius motor into a Ferrari just for shits and giggles. Anyone would be called a moron for that as well.

The fact that you plan to use a sig brace on a .308 SBR should have made me just skip over this thread. I am trying to do you a favor.

You are ignorant to ballistics and armor piercing/terminal properties of these rounds. Neither .308AP or 5.56AP will penetrate an ESAPI. Energy doesn't mean shit when the Bullets aren't designed to operate outside of their velocity range.

If there was ANY short range/CQB advantage to running a shorty .308, wouldn't the tip of the spear be running it? You know, guys who are used to engaging both armored and unarmored combatants and terrorists. The fact that outside of a couple 13" Mk17 barrels floating around, no one uses them, tells you something.

Your right it's your money you can do what you want.

 

[Cobracutter]

So what you want is a shotgun, despite the fact that a SBR/Carbine in 5.56 has made the shotgun completely obsolete for shooting people?

Either way what you "think" and what is reality are not one and the same.

2700FPS with a 168gr out of a sub 16" .308? Maybe on Mars or Jupiter.



You sound like your going to do it regardless, so have fun.......don't say no one didn't warn you.

 

[siscoe308]

When you build it, I want to see pictures!

 

[GUNNER10]

this post is full of fuck...

how would it look...retarded, because it makes no damn sense.

you want a cq/hd, you pick out the heaviest 308 upper on the market, and an optic that will make a slow CQ rifle even slower. considering lmt has not started selling mws uppers, not really sure how you are going to make that work unless you plan on waiting for one to show up in the EE.


you mention looks are important to you and your going to slap on a sig brace which looks like a wet bag of dicks.

you mention how you don't want to get into something like 458 socom because of ammo prices, but in the same post you mention your 300wm and 338lm? do you shoot those, or are those just conversation pieces that don't need ammo.


what the fuck... have it in condition one in a violin case when your at home... how old are you?

 

[Winny94]

It's a bad idea because .308 BLOWS ballisticaly under 16 inches. 100% waste of money.

You are making nothing but noise and flash. Half of your powder is being burnt up OUTSIDE of the barrel. People have tried running them, FAL shorties..SCAR17 Shorties and they all are shit.

If you want something small, then stick with 5.56 or 7.62x39. x39 works great out of a 10" barrel so buy yourself a Pap M92 and go to town...... Look, I just saved you $2K.

It would be pissing money down the drain to drop $1.5 /rnd ammo while simultaneously pissing away any ballistic advantage of .308. 5.56 penetrates armor better anyway....speed wins.

If you want more OMHHFF, then build a 50BW or .458 Socom.

Why do you care? He asked for pics of similar set-ups, not your opinion of short barreled 308 ballistics. Some people don't have issues with money and just want to have a fun gun. If you don't like it, ignore it.

 

[8541recon]

Sounds like a waste of money. 308 under 16in horrible to say the least.

Not true, but I haven't tried the 13.5", that does seem to be getting short. I have a 14.5" Larue PredatOBR and it shoots better than the other 3 16" versions we have. I am getting 2470 with 168gr AMAX with a SD of 7 (off magneto speed, with 10-shots). It still supersonic past a grand and will put consistent hits on a 10" plate at a grand as well. Not too shabby, and surprised me. It may be the exception rather than the rule, but shorter bbls are not always a bad thing. The whole arm brace thing doesn't make sense to me unless you have one that you can easily shoulder. And why go 13.5" seems like not short enough to mess with (advantages of SBR) and not long enough to be non-sbr/pistol legal.

 

[GUNNER10]

its kind of hard to ignore post soo full of fuck.

considering he's bright enough to be in a situation to clear houses with MK17's and M110's, not m4's and m16A4's like most of the military, the HSLD stuff, and he so disillusioned by the capabilities of a 13 inch folding 308 AR in a violin case, its comical.

why not an m82cq with mk8 cqbss? it wouldn't fit in a violin case, but it might fit in a discreet guitar case, and be just as retarded.

also the reason that you wont see an MWS with a sig brace is most MWS owners are not simpletons.

 

[Redman797]

Yup, you nailed, it.

I might sound like that, but frankly don't give a fuck what I sound like. I had originally asked for a simple photo, so give yourself a pat on the back for attention to detail. Just because my profile picture isn't a OIF Ribbon with a CAB over it doesn't mean shit. I spent numerous years in the Army as an 11B and have a few deployments to both flea infested countries, but didn't feel I needed to state that. I do have experience with making and breaking contact with the enemy, and yes, TRUE, I don't have much experience shooting at ARMORED combatants, but that's because I didn't encounter many ARMORED combatants, and to my knowledge, with the exception of homemade armor by them, not many have, but who knows, I'm not current on TTP's of the enemy since I ETS'd in early 2010.

As for the MK17's, yes, they were run with longer barrels when I was in, and I (as others too, but not all) always wished they had shorter ones, cause they definitely got hung up, fucked up and scratched at McKenna.

As for the ESAPI's being penetrated by 308, never said they would, said MAYBE would, and if not, at least would transfer so much energy it would knock em on their asses. Reason for MAYBE, being that 3-5 rounds of 308 at close distances 5-15m with tight groups can deform and soften the plate to the point of possible penetration, if not being killed from cardiac tamponade or intenral organ ruptures from the impact. I know ESAPI can take about 6 rds of 308, but I haven't seen any tests at about 5m hit with 168gr TAP with tight group but I also don't know many criminals running with ESAPI or SAPI with 3a soft backers. I do know criminals in my area have been found to utilize lvl 3A soft armor panels though, which are not rifle rated.

Just because SOF ain't using em, doesn't mean there isn't something superior out there. Contracts have a lot more to do with cost and politics vs usefulness, and if you need an example, look at the fucking uniforms issued or when we got MK48's. Is a MK48 ANYWHERE as lethal or reliable as a M240B? NO, but they were made to fulfill a role. I rather rock a crew served 240 than a individual operated and maintained MK48.

Don't be mad that the Sig Arm Brace might seam stupid to you because you paid $200.00 for an SBR and this is an alternative. I played around with one, and felt it was suitable for my needs, not yours, and if the ATF doesn't care if I shoulder it, I sure as shit don't.

Just because Most people don't own one, doesn't mean they don't have a purpose, I don't see many people running around or pic's with closed bolt SAW's, but I just purchased one and am waiting for it to be built from MGA. Does that make me a fucktard for being the minority?

I'm done until a mod locks this or someone posts pics.

EDIT: I want it to be in a violin case cause I found one for free, and thought it might be cool to do. LMT DOES sell 13.5 uppers, they don't list em, call em up though. With an MWS I can go to different barrel lengths as well, ATF doesn't care on barrel length of a pistol, or so I read in an ATF approval letter. also never said it would be folded up in condition 1, said it would be stored, and I would transport it in that, yes admittedly for the cool factor, but we've all done shit because it's cool. It would be stored with the LAW adapter folded OUT in condition 1 by my bed. Shorter barrels are often just as accurate if not more at certain distances, at least to 600m (well outside my intended use) because they are more rigid.

 

[GUNNER10]

of course you would buy a closed bolt saw, its probably the single most impractical weapon made.

let me guess Ranger?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[Redman797]

3/75 B Co.

 

[GUNNER10]

I can see it.

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[Redman797]

Thank You

 

[Cobracutter]

Cory,

There is nothing wrong will collecting or owning cool shit. I would love to own one of those Semi SAW's just for shits and giggles and because I carried one half a deployment...... but there is a difference between cool and retarded.

A short barrel .308 falls within the retarded realm. Do you already have a MK11/SR-25 setup? PVS-14(s)? , NO 45's? Cmon now, every man has to have a couple 1911's and HK USP45(c)/HK45(c)'s. There are problem dozens of pieces of gear or guns that are actually useful that you should be looking at. Maybe even one of those new 300WM Semi AR's...........now that's interesting.

 

[Redman797]

Leaving for home, no internet yet there. I'll get back to yah Friday, but yes, I do have 14's and a MK11.

 

[8541recon]

So what you want is a shotgun, despite the fact that a SBR/Carbine in 5.56 has made the shotgun completely obsolete for shooting people?

Either way what you "think" and what is reality are not one and the same.

2700FPS with a 168gr out of a sub 16" .308? Maybe on Mars or Jupiter.



You sound like your going to do it regardless, so have fun.......don't say no one didn't warn you.

Man this post got sideways, but seriously, I have to call bs on 2700 out of sub 16 as well. that is even too much for a 16, if you are talking gas gun.

 

[Redman797]

2700 foot pounds of energy, not feet per second. 168gr TAP according to hornady at the muzzle is a little less than 2400 feet per second, transferring 2700 FT/LBs of energy with 168gr TAP. Im 99% sure I had written FT/LBs not FPS, but not sure since viewing this on my phone shows 1 stupid post at a time and takes like 5min to load each one.

I also stand corrected, talking to hornady on phone instead of reading data off someone's,personnel charts, 168gr TAP has about 1950-2000 foot lbs of energy at the muzzle with a 13" barrel. He also stated that they only test to lowest a 16 with 308, but doing tue math he came up with that number. So I stand corrected on the 2700 foot pounds. Had originally got it from a study that seamed legit off arfcom.



Figured out how to use taptalk on my phone.

 

[Masked]

It's a bad idea because .308 BLOWS ballisticaly under 16 inches. 100% waste of money.

You are making nothing but noise and flash. Half of your powder is being burnt up OUTSIDE of the barrel. People have tried running them, FAL shorties..SCAR17 Shorties and they all are shit.

If you want something small, then stick with 5.56 or 7.62x39. x39 works great out of a 10" barrel so buy yourself a Pap M92 and go to town...... Look, I just saved you $2K.

It would be pissing money down the drain to drop $1.5 /rnd ammo while simultaneously pissing away any ballistic advantage of .308. 5.56 penetrates armor better anyway....speed wins.

If you want more OMHHFF, then build a 50BW or .458 Socom.

This is actually one of the few and only times that I've agreed with this man.

I reload frequently for 308...Love the round, versatility etc...But, going sub 16" is just a bad idea.

Not only does your effective powder burn diminish but, you're essentially wasting 60c/round and they're louder than all hell.

It's not as much a fun gun as it is pissing away money and obnoxiously, assholicly loud.

At the end of the day, it's your money @OP but, a 308 SBR...Not worth the time/resources.

 

[gimpy]

Sounds like the role of a 300 BLK, not a 308.

 

[Redmanss]

Sounds like the role of a 300 BLK, not a 308.

Exactly what I was thinking. Lighter (especially for pistol form), cheaper, very good terminal performance including in subs for close range distances, less recoil for management of follow-on shots, far less concussion, excellent in suppressed form.

I'm all for fun "for the fuck of it" builds, but OP, this one will not turn out how you want it to. We're just trying to help.

 

[Redman797]

300 might be way to go, I've just seen so much inconsistency of ammo availability from that caliber. It also is retail for me as opposed to significant discount in 308. Like extremely good, that's why its hard to want another caliber, especially when I have a lot and can get it dirt cheap. But I'll think about it over the next few days.

 

[HKpirate]

If you are dead set on .308 have you thought about going to a 14.5 w/ pinned muzzle device ? still does not get around the burn issue its a touch better but gives a some what short package with a stock. I do not know where you live and what your laws are but if you really wanted a short .308 I think this would be a better way to go. I shot a 10" .308 full auto and it was a blast god awful to shoot but fun. Yet it was still someone else gun and ammo. I think 14.5 may be a good compromise or as stated above .300 blk may be the way to go

 

[mattylerockey]

Regardless of what other people think you should do with your money. I have a G3K 12.7", and an HK51 8.9" for a sear host. These are both .308 rifles. If the man wants to have fun, let him. These are some of the most outstandingly WOW weapons! The 12.7" G3K maintains 1 MOA out to 450yds. What more could one ask for in this type of package. Im sure for that closed bolt SAW you are looking into a sear pack if you dont have one already, I know at least one model that will take an HK registered pack.

HAVE FUN with your new project.

It should be a blast!

Hope you get some pics, even an SBR pick would be helpful.