Anyone using Federal M118LR?

[scatsob]

This stuff is popping up anywhere from $1.25/round to $1.50/round for the current 2012 stuff. Is this the same a 175gr gold metal match? I know that reloading is better but I flat out don't have the time for that noise with 4 small kids and work. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

You mean the real M118LR, not the whitebox knockoff stuff?

Yes, when I can find it. Mine OBR thinks it was made to shoot that stuff, shoots better than the GMM 175.

If you have a line on a couple to several cans of it, at that price, I am in.

Edit - not exactly the same as GMM, but close. Latest version has slightly different powder and waterproofing. Brass is a little different too.

 

[desert dog]

I currently have a few thousand rounds of the new generation M118LR 175gr SMK in Lake City Brass dated 2012.

It is hotter than FGMM, which uses the same bullet. Here are some muzzle velocities for comparison:

Rem 700 with 20" 1:10 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2521 fps / M118LR @ 2558 fps

Rem 700 with 17" 1:10 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2456 fps / M118LR @ 2501 fps

SCAR 17 with 16.25" 1:12 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2410 fps / M118LR @ 2455 fps

It is not as consistent as FGGM, but it is definitely superior to bargain match ammo like Privi. It shoots clean and the little boost in MV is nice for ringing steel at distance.

I shot an entire 4-day precision rifle class with it and was impressed. Not one failure to feed, fire, or eject in my gas guns either.

 

[Cobracutter]

Considering that REAL M118LR is shit ammo, With horrible QC, Many lots barey shooting 1.5-2 MOA, that most units who can procure other ammo, do......

I wouldn't waste money on the seconds when you can get MUCH better ammo for the same price or a little more (FGMM, Copper Creek, SWA)

 

[Rhyno]

Considering that REAL M118LR is shit ammo, With horrible QC, Many lots barey shooting 1.5-2 MOA, that most units who can procure other ammo, do......

I wouldn't waste money on the seconds when you can get MUCH better ammo for the same price or a little more (FGMM, Copper Creek, SWA)

Umm.... Okay, I've heard that about m118 and m118 special ball but never m118LR.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Pusher591]

Considering that REAL M118LR is shit ammo, With horrible QC, Many lots barey shooting 1.5-2 MOA, that most units who can procure other ammo, do......

I wouldn't waste money on the seconds when you can get MUCH better ammo for the same price or a little more (FGMM, Copper Creek, SWA)

That's weird, I've shot 7 different lots from 03-12 and they all shot 1/2-3/4" from two different custom rifles. I wouldn't say QC is is shit but the SD/ES was not as tight as I thought it would be. I'm not military, never have been and I'm too old to do it now but have several CLOSE friends who shoot this stuff and have for years. Having spoke directly to them about their experiences with the ammo you speak of, your 1.5-2 MOA account is far from that. While they think they could definitely be issued better stuff, its protected their and our asses at over 700 yards on multiple occasions

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I currently have a few thousand rounds of the new generation M118LR 175gr SMK in Lake City Brass dated 2012.

It is hotter than FGMM, which uses the same bullet. Here are some muzzle velocities for comparison:

Rem 700 with 20" 1:10 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2521 fps / M118LR @ 2558 fps

Rem 700 with 17" 1:10 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2456 fps / M118LR @ 2501 fps

SCAR 17 with 16.25" 1:12 barrel = Federal GMM 175gr @ 2410 fps / M118LR @ 2455 fps

It is not as consistent as FGGM, but it is definitely superior to bargain match ammo like Privi. It shoots clean and the little boost in MV is nice for ringing steel at distance.

I shot an entire 4-day precision rifle class with it and was impressed. Not one failure to feed, fire, or eject in my gas guns either.

I'm shooting a new lot of LC brass M118LR at the moment and find your MV variances interesting as I think I have a lot thats shooting hotter than typical and it has me scratching my head

. I was using a MV of 2550 for both of my 20" guns, 1 a Rem 700 AAC-sd and the other a Bighorn action with a Bartlien barrel, both 1-10 twists, both shot the same day/conditions. After doing a POI correction on both of them with my ballistic calculator, it was showing MV of 2747 and 2700. Shooting the rest of the day with that MV proved to be dead on all the way out to 1000m. I was surprised to say the least at those MVs but they worked. Environmentals were nothing outstanding 85 degees, baro 29.65, humidity 27%, elev 1450 MSL, mostly zero wind with an occasional 3-5mph from 6oclock.

So I am curious to see what others are getting MV wise with this ammo as it is apparently shooting hotter than earlier M118LR lots.

 

[Pusher591]

Care to elaborate?

Take it with a grain of salt, that came from a guy who thinks KAC are the finest military rifles available. He spews a lot if stuff on here and its always his way or he knows first hand so it has to be the gospel. He's an asshat, and while he may be military or SF he seems to be one of those guys who mainly is only familiar with military stuff and thinks it's the end all be all. Don't believe me, check is post history.

 

[scatsob]

Wow, thanks for the input guys. I bought 400 rounds GMM from palmetto when they had it for $23 a box and wish I had bought more. For the M118LR in loose packing sportsmansguide has it for $750 for 500 rounds right now. I wish it was closer to $1 per round and I would be all over it. I may just wait till palmetto gets more GMM.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Papa Zero Three I've got some actual M118LR also and the MV through my AAC-SD is practically the same as desert dog's, about 2560 fps. My lot of M118LR has also pretty much been on par accuracy wise as the FGMM 175's that I've fed through my AAC-SD as well and when I was humping an M24 it was always dependable ammo. The M118SB on the other hand was shit, no denying that.

 

[desert dog]

I was using a MV of 2550 for both of my 20" guns, 1 a Rem 700 AAC-sd and the other a Bighorn action with a Bartlien barrel, both 1-10 twists, both shot the same day/conditions. After doing a POI correction on both of them with my ballistic calculator, it was showing MV of 2747 and 2700. Shooting the rest of the day with that MV proved to be dead on all the way out to 1000m. I was surprised to say the least at those MVs but they worked. Environmentals were nothing outstanding 85 degees, baro 29.65, humidity 27%, elev 1450 MSL, mostly zero wind with an occasional 3-5mph from 6oclock.

I would definitely check everything. I don't know if it is possible to get 2747 out of a 175 grainer with a 20" barrel without having horribly dangerous pressures. Did you account for angle on your yardage? Correct BC input? I fudged the elevation reading one time on my applied ballistics phone app and I was getting a MV like yours that would verify with my bullet hits.. I did the same thing another time when I inadvertently turned off the angle compensation feature in my range finder when I set up on a hill to shoot down onto a valley, and the subsequent high shots caused me to dial down and input the correction into my software.

I would try again from scratch, starting off with the 2560 number.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I would definitely check everything. I don't know if it is possible to get 2747 out of a 175 grainer with a 20" barrel without having horribly dangerous pressures. Did you account for angle on your yardage? Correct BC input? I fudged the elevation reading one time on my applied ballistics phone app and I was getting a MV like yours that would verify with my bullet hits.. I did the same thing another time when I inadvertently turned off the angle compensation feature in my range finder when I set up on a hill to shoot down onto a valley, and the subsequent high shots caused me to dial down and input the correction into my software.

I would try again from scratch, starting off with the 2560 number.

I checked everything and then had a second set of eyes check it. The ballistic solution was run through 2 different PDAs and the same firing solution came out. The 2nd PDA also confirmed the POI corrected MV my PDA gave me. No angle/incline involved just flat range. Elevation and environmental info taken and confirmed with 2 separate devices. Factory Brown box LC M118LR rounds, no hand loads. The only thing I can think of that might have influenced both guns was that the barrels on both were warm from zeroing them but I think thats stretching.

 

[Pusher591]

I'm shooting a new lot of LC brass M118LR at the moment and find your MV variances interesting as I think I have a lot thats shooting hotter than typical and it has me scratching my head

. I was using a MV of 2550 for both of my 20" guns, 1 a Rem 700 AAC-sd and the other a Bighorn action with a Bartlien barrel, both 1-10 twists, both shot the same day/conditions. After doing a POI correction on both of them with my ballistic calculator, it was showing MV of 2747 and 2700. Shooting the rest of the day with that MV proved to be dead on all the way out to 1000m. I was surprised to say the least at those MVs but they worked. Environmentals were nothing outstanding 85 degees, baro 29.65, humidity 27%, elev 1450 MSL, mostly zero wind with an occasional 3-5mph from 6oclock.

So I am curious to see what others are getting MV wise with this ammo as it is apparently shooting hotter than earlier M118LR lots.

Papa,

I had a 2009 or 2010 lot that was freakin fast. Chrono'd it out of my 17.5" Brux barreled Surgeon and it was chrono'ing at 2640's-2660's. It was accurate out to 730 yards which is the farthest we had at the time. I'll say too that hot stuff was the most accurate lot I've shot to date. It shot less then 1/2 MOA at 100 and 1/2 to 3/4 out to distance.

 

[desert dog]

Papa,

I had a 2009 or 2010 lot that was freakin fast. Chrono'd it out of my 17.5" Brux barreled Surgeon and it was chrono'ing at 2640's-2660's. It was accurate out to 730 yards which is the farthest we had at the time. I'll say too that hot stuff was the most accurate lot I've shot to date. It shot less then 1/2 MOA at 100 and 1/2 to 3/4 out to distance.

DAMMMMMM, that's smoking fast!!! I get that MV from FGMM out of a 24" barrel! You guys had to be pushing almost 300WSM pressures through that 17" barrel. That ammo would beat the fock out of a gas gun.

 

[Pusher591]

DAMMMMMM, that's smoking fast!!! I get that MV from FGMM out of a 24" barrel! You guys had to be pushing almost 300WSM pressures through that 17" barrel. That ammo would beat the fock out of a gas gun.

It was extremely fast. I could never replicate it with any hand load. Best I ever saw was factory Hornaday 178 bthp match (Non-Superformance load) and it was getting around 2600 average. McCourt loaded 178's with Varget behind them ran 2580 and were the most accurate load I ever shot in that rifle. At the time I had the opportunity to buy 1500 rounds of that M118LR but only bought 300. Wish I knew then what I know now.

 

[Alpine 338]

I found the M118LR to be a bit faster than FGMM also. However, it's extremely accurate in both my TRG and GAP rifles.

Here's what I measured through a Chrony with my Sako TRG-22 with 20" barrel:

M118LR
Average 2600
ES 23.5
SD 8.71

FGMM
Average 2563
ES 20.5
SD 7.81

Using a Oehler at a later date, prior to a match, my average was less than 2600. I went ahead and used 2600 anyway for my DOPE card, and it worked just fine.

M118LR (LC 08)
Average 2576
ES 36
SD 14.4

Accuracy was very good shooting steel targets, and possibly saw a slight increase in velocity as the day got hotter. As many know, the military has gone to the Mk 316, as they found the M118LR was sensitive to extreme high temps during combat in the sandbox.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Ive been shooting a lot of it and it shoots great for be. sun .5 MOA groups every time. I've been getting an average of 2650fps in a 24" barrel.

 

[lifebreath]

I've shot it side by side with FGMM 168 and 175 from my GAP Crusader, and the M118LR is hotter and groups tighter, but has occasional flyers that don't occur with the FGMM. Even with flyers, I'm getting almost .5 moa groups.

From the GAP 23" barrel:

FGMM 175 = 2637 fps
M118LR = 2694 fps

The MV spreads and std deviations were about the same. This m118LR is from bulk packaging. I have some in the 20-packs that I haven't shot, so I don't know if the flyers are a result of the rounds all banging around in the bulk pack.

Here's a typical 5-round group at 200 yards with the M118LR from my GAP:

 

[eodsix]

I found the M118LR to be a bit faster than FGMM also. However, it's extremely accurate in both my TRG and GAP rifles.

Here's what I measured through a Chrony with my Sako TRG-22 with 20" barrel:

M118LR
Average 2600
ES 23.5
SD 8.71

FGMM
Average 2563
ES 20.5
SD 7.81

I found this to exactly opposite in my Rem M24 with 24" barrel. GMM was closer to 2700 while the M118LR tracked between 2600-2645 depending on year and lot. I don't have my exact notes as I'm not at home but GMM shoots faster in mine. I have some newer M118LR 2011 that I've not chronoed yet though.

 

[John1911.com]

I don't know S from Shine-ola in regards to half the things being said about 118. But I will add this for the OP to consider. If you are looking at 175 Grain 308 and don't wish to hand load, you can take a look at ASYM's 175. I haven't shot enough to make any definitive, long-term trends. But I was so impressed with it and it's results; it's the standard I try to duplicate in 175g hand loads. For me, FGMM has always been so-so. Not bad. But…for me…not anything earth shattering.

Certainly there are other 175's out there, and I will eventually try them as well. Figured a box of ASYM wouldn't hurt for you to test.

TTR

 

[GlockBlock]

Is it possible for civilians to get the 118LR? I've never seen it for sale anywhere that I can recall.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Is it possible for civilians to get the 118LR? I've never seen it for sale anywhere that I can recall.

Yes civilians can get it. there are a good few guys in this thread that are civ's that were talking about shooting it. Its not to hard to find but finding it in stock may be a different question.

Btw, your in Tulsa... where do you shoot? I'm from the same area

 

[Kilmore]

Top left 5 shot group is M118LR. The bottom right 5 shot stringer is Speer GD 168. Shot from LMT MWS 16" CL barrel suppressed with the 175 having a MV of 2515. A buck a round is fair, I have paid as much as $30 a box for current dated ammo when I am not getting it issued to me.

 

[GlockBlock]

Yes civilians can get it. there are a good few guys in this thread that are civ's that were talking about shooting it. Its not to hard to find but finding it in stock may be a different question.

Btw, your in Tulsa... where do you shoot? I'm from the same area

I thought maybe the civs are getting it from their .mil buddies. I typically shoot at USSA and private land. I actually live in one of the more populated burbs east of town. Send me a PM if you need a shooting/hunting buddy. I moved here just a few years ago from Pittsburgh, PA and don't exactly know a lot of people here. Luckily the people I have met have access to some large tracts of land they let me shoot on when hunting season isn't going on.

I've Red Castle goes out to 1k but I've never been. It's a bit of a drive for me when the private land I shoot on is closer than USSA is.

 

[Yustax]

When I had my M24 clone in a good day I could make a 0.3 moa at 100 yards. I also did once s group of 0.4 at 200 yards bench rest position with a tripod. However I found that the M118 174gr was a little better in my rifle than the 175gr LR version. But the Federal Match 175gr was the best of em all.

 

[floridabuck]

I have ha wonderful results with the LR ammo. My howa 1500 eats then like candy.

 

[Graham]

Anyone using Federal M118LR?

You will be better off with good commercial match ammo, depending on the lot, of course.

 

[Guest]

Check out SGAMMO Not sure this is the same stuff your talking about but I have shot it out of my POF P308 14.5" with good results.

 

[scatsob]

I just wish it was not so expensive. I have been getting 175gr GMM from palmetto cheaper than what M118LR is going for.

 

[Graham]

Anyone using Federal M118LR?

What's so special about 118LR? If I don't get it for free I don't shoot it.