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AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">m1a's suck gap10's are better, i mean what was i thinking m1a's are not even black and they have wood on them whats with that? i bet our troops fell pretty dumb walking around with a rifle that has wood on it i mean geez its 2012. btw i was at the range yesterday and this guy had a pof and was shooting 3/4 moa and another guy had a gap10 and he was shooting under 1/4 moa all day i bet that guy with the pof was pissed.</div></div>

I've just come to the conclusion you're either drunk, and idiot, or a drunk idiot. Your sarcasm betrays your ignorance and you can thump your M1A's chest all you want. It's the best rifle ever and nothing else comes close. That's why shooters with very deep pockets are using them all the time. Oh wait, they're not.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I have a few bolt guns one good uso and i still suck at shooting but i do have a lot of fun doing it, i didnt mean to upset anyone. ps i was taught with iron sights
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Shooting 1000K with irons is stupid? Only for those who cant.

2 weeks ago irons and prone SLING support no shooting coat. 18.5 inch kreiger. 175 smk. 2 sighters and rest consecutive hits.
Gap is a fantastic rifle but all these opinions on what a M1A can or cant do is a lot of shit talk.

DSC03940.jpg



 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. . . as its my job as a intelligent being to understand why and choose the rifle tool for the job.</div></div>'nuff said.

What about some kind of bullpup 308? It would be more wieldy in the tight spots and it could still have reasonable barrel length for distance velocity?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

It's not really opinion. M1As have a well deserved reputation for being 1moa rifles. YOUR ability as a shooter is not magical with THAT particular rifle. Marksmanship is marksmanship; the weapon is just the tool to get the job done.

Besides the fact this is not about whether or not the M1A is a capable rifle but the fan boys are trying to turn it into such.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Sharfshutze no one said shooting with Irons are stupid, other that ss-8541-dono to try to change the arguemnet at hand. He crashed and burned with his statements. Go read my posts to him on page two.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I will say guys who used an M14 in the military have more of an attachment to them because they used a high quality milspec M14 as opposed to a lot of the crap floating on the market.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I was able to get my EBR to shoot just around 1MOA with m118lr. They are fun to tinker with and try to get accuracy out of. That said, there is no doubt about which is the superior platform in my mind - which is why the EBR is long gone and the OBR is on the way.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

M1A/M14 have the ergonomics of a pregnant yak.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Funny how the tide has turned. I'll just go ahead an date myself.
Long ago uncle issued green 10's as well as 14's. Have your face slapped w/very fresh meat an liquid dripping out of your right eye from your buds forearm, because his 10's barrel blew up while on F/A. Then pickup a first issue 16 and wash that down. The 14 will hold a very dear place for a long time,...
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poorboyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and why would u want to shoot a 1000yds with open sites thats just stupid</div></div>

I thought this thread was dead and the lo and behold one smartass comment spawns a whole new page of fanboy nerdrage.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nickh46</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those now just joining us, I took the liberty to make a summary Cliff Notes (with dinosaurs) of this lovely thread.

much thanks to BigJoe, DP425, BCP, and Broker for their guest appearances
laugh.gif

hydra67.png
</div></div>

ROFLMFAO
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maestro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What about some kind of bullpup 308? It would be more wieldy in the tight spots and it could still have reasonable barrel length for distance velocity?

</div></div>

Kel-Tec RFB?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I have shot many M14s and several GAP10s at a 1000 yards.

The M14 is not as accurate or as easy to keep accurate as my GAP AR10s.

I run 44.0 grains H4895 with a 155 Scenar and make a mess of the center at 1000 yards with my GAP AR10, with 22" barrel

Not as good as my bolt guns but freaking great just the same
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Since this thread is getting so much attention Ill do a plug.
This tool has been absolutely phenominal for 1000 yard shooting.
DSC03997.jpg
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

In 2010, I shot Long Range Service Rifle with an M14 with the Guard.Iron Sights. 800,900 and 1000 yds. Some of the best maintained and accurate rifles of the type in the world probably. It could be shot well at 800 with some effort, but got more and more difficult as the targets got further away. The AMU figured out their AR10's That year and I watched them shoot mid 440's in a 450 point course (palma) Our best shooters with the best M14's would shoot hgh 420's to low 430's, previously a great score for a SR in LR. The AR10's did it better, more consistantly and with much less effort than the M14.
A fine rifle it is, a great rifle it is not. The AR10 has evolved past the 1950's and is quite capable, and inherently more accurate. I built my LR SR AR10 for $1200, $600 of that was barrel. Roughly a third the cost of a comparable M14 set up that wouldn't be as competitive. My worst day with the AR10 I can score a little better than I could n my best day with the M14. Its just a more accurate rifle. Surely the GAP AR10 is as accurate or more than the one I built in my basement. Purely from a target rifle standpoint such as thats my experience directly with the two. I have only seen one M14 at a precision rifle match. I doubt I will ever see it again.

Then again, I never cleared a room with either, or anything else for that matter other than training... Guess I'm not a very good internet commando
frown.gif

In my job, if I'm clearing a room, something has gone horribly astray and I am lucky as fuck to even be alive to get to that point where I needed to, and I'd probably have a damn 240H with a ground kit installed, so even a M14 would be like an SBR at that point! lol..
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Long ago uncle issued green 10's as well as 14's....because his 10's barrel blew up while on F/A.</div></div>

Pardon my ignorance here - I am not a military guy. What is a green 10? I gather it was some substandard rifle that was also F/A. Can you fill me in a little more?

Casey
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Pretty sure he means AR-10.

M1As and Garands blow up too. I've seen both catastrophically fail at ranges over the years usually because someone used 'gun show' reloads (ie, ammunition made and sold by an escaped mental patient) that were overcharged.

Only weapon I've ever had blow up in my hands was a rossi revolver. That was interesting.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I guess I'm still lost. So the military has issued full auto AR-10's?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I'm still lost. So the military has issued full auto AR-10's?
</div></div>

Maybe the old stoners from vietnam?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Hydra, if you get ungrounded from the internet and read this I am totally with you. I too am a operator that is looking for one rifle to rule them all. I need a rifle that after engaging tangos from a perch on top of the tower at Isengard I can base jump off, jump on a warg and ride into the shire to clear it room to room. Now this rifle needs to be light, maybe under 3 oz. so to not wear out the warg. Now Gandalf told me once the the "DMR concept" has absolutely nothing to do with room clearing but i'm going with you know more than him, cause you seem legit. I was actually leaning toward the M1A but i'd advise to adding a narsil underneath to have something to engage ring wraiths with while clearing the shire. It might also need some sort of plasma type secondary attachment because that CPT America guy's shield is tough and he does hate him some hydra. P.S. SS is a dumbass
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I'm still lost. So the military has issued full auto AR-10's? </div></div>
The military never issued AR10's in V/N that I know of. They were issued by uncle an used in Cambodia, Laos, an the Congo. The first ones had the charging device directly under the carry handle that was shaped like a "C". You inserted your index finger into it and pulled rearward. 20rd box fed like you see today, except the mags were a waffle design. The fire control group was very similar to the first 16's(which came later). On Full Auto they were far more controllable than a std M14, but never as good(not even close) as a M14e2/M14a1. Some Barrels were an issue and would burst 6-8" in front of the throat as they would crystallize from prolonged high sustained fire rates.
The 10's of today are nothing like those of yesteryear, then again today's trucks drive different than the trucks back then as well. Some R&D back then was in the field, under real world.
The AR10 was the fore-runner of the AR15 which became the M16.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Did you see the original AR-10 issued by the US military or other countries? Everything that I've ever read about the history of the rifle, such as this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10 show it never being adopted by the US, but by other countries.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

The HK416 hasn't been adopted by the US (not including the USMC's M27 IAR), but various units like Delta/CAG/ACE, ASW, ST6 use it.

Case in point, a rifle doesn't have to be formally adopted and issued for it to be used in the field by those who can choose what they wanna use.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badshot308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you see the original AR-10 issued by the US military or other countries? Everything that I've ever read about the history of the rifle, such as this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10 show it never being adopted by the US, but by other countries. </div></div>
Being adopted is not the same as being used. Many country's will issue weapons they never adopt for many reasons, the main being Deni-ability. Much like the US using German, Russian an Chinese weapons all over the world an they do/did the same. Everyone knows who uses what, where, but the public "Knows" only the Commies/bad guys use AK's an RPG's. When you see a guy carrying an AK what are your first thoughts?

Yes the ones we had/used were US made.
The Congo had a mix of 10's an a mix of sanitize 14's, the Chinese copy of the 14 back then was laughable for F&F. Not so for operation, the USGI S/A built being a 10, the Chinese copy being a 8.5-9

The truth about all wars/conflicts is mostly boring to a short sighted public.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

OK, thanks. Most of the info on the original AR-10 that's on the net would have you believe that the US military never did anything with them past the testing phase.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Mike,
At my age it matters little what folks believe. The amount of net commandos is ever increasing, then again it's practiced at the highest levels of this country, so nothing new there.

I've watched many folks try to rebut "Net Facts" and get drove into the dirt. The difference is knowing the truth vs the perception of same. It's much easier to smile and chuckle inside with others who know the truth, than try to re-educate the "Educated".
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The difference is knowing the truth vs the perception of same. It's much easier to smile and chuckle inside with others who know the truth, than try to re-educate the "Educated". </div></div>

...much to that.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

A 1,000 yard room clearer is an oxymoron. In any event, I choose the AR platform in .308 win/7.62

Even with an AR platform in .308 - which is inherently an accurate gun - reaching to 1,000 is pushing it for the round. For accuracy at that range, you should have the right barrel, trigger, etc. A gun that can hold it's own in long range accuracy, is not well suited for room clearing.

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Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

A few years ago my first outing with a DPMS SASS began by zeroing it. My first 5 shot grouping at 100 yards measured close to zero. I was impressed. It made me wonder, especially since it did not appear to me that this rifle was anything special. I concluded that the advantage this concept had over the typical bolt gun, or M14 was the manner in which it recoiled. Unlike other rifles which produce an angle and arc between line of bore at rest and line of bore at bullet exit, which requires a really consistent position to prevent angular error, the SASS's back and forth recoil was easier to control consistently. At any rate, others have seen this too and today we have several bolt guns out there which are AR like. One of these is the Tubb 2000. My point is today's equipment appears to get better results than yesterday's gear. Seems we're still learning things about accuracy. Some of this technology no doubt would work at distances, circumstances, and conditions where accuracy is moot, so perhaps one gun that will do it all may be indeed be possible. More importantly however, is the skill of the shooter, whatever he's shooting at. It's why these this vs. that arguments are so entertaining. The perspectives of those who don't know that they don't know are always entertaining.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike,
At my age it matters little what folks believe. The amount of net commandos is ever increasing, then again it's practiced at the highest levels of this country, so nothing new there.

I've watched many folks try to rebut "Net Facts" and get drove into the dirt. The difference is knowing the truth vs the perception of same. It's much easier to smile and chuckle inside with others who know the truth, than try to re-educate the "Educated".
</div></div>

Never more truth in such few words.

Thanks Brother
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Patriot Prepper, you will learn that quality trumps quantity..... Sending 2 rounds down range and making a few holes doesnt really qualify the system for anything other than 2 shot strings until that BSA goes tits up because the 20th round fired under it was just to much for it.....

What is it your prepping for, being attacked by paper at your bench? Or do you want equipment that has survivability?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patriot Prepper, you will learn that quality trumps quantity...</div></div>

I've tried to explain that to people but what do I know since I didn't serve in the armed forces, etc.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I think what Patriot Prepper was alluding to is the cost of something may not have a corollary to quality; however, accuracy is just one quality. Reliability is another quality which is often important. My personal experience with the Bushmaster 308, the Rock River predecessor, was not without issue. It's why I was excited when DPMS announced their LR-308. So far, I think DPMS got it right although their rifle is awfully heavy.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "recce" rifle is a idea for military that are limited to what they carry. Even at that most military "snipers" i know would never want to do CQC with their long gun. what optic do you plan on running on this 1000 meter gun? even with a back up doctor, RMR, irons, most guns that will put rounds effectively and regularly down range at 1000 are long and awkward for CQC. Since you instantly discounted mike's comments as false and immediately came back with a comeback i ask what are you? swat? mil? LEO? call of duty? the recce idea is awesome for a gun wanting to shoot between 100-4/500 yards in open ground and limited to 1 long gun. if i can i would carry a long gun on my back if i planned on engagements that far and carry somethign smaller more capable of the CQC type role. But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

The rifle in question is for naval use. More specifically providing over watch for the boarding team then joining the bording team in the rear of the stack. Expected engagement ranges from 3-500yards ( tanker ships are very large and shots from heli) thus the need for range. I believe that explains the weapons AOE.
</div></div>

Your trying to argue with Joe and it's in regards to naval use... you're fucked... just sayin...
</div></div>

One of you owes NMCI for a new keyboard, thanks I needed a that to lighten up my morning.

Flashback to early 90's boarding doctrine... time has proven M14+Ship= bad idea or lack of funding.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patriot Prepper</div></div>

What exactly is a prepper?</div></div>

You tell me.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

There is a big difference in clearing a room within the laws of the civi world vs the Military. Rooms were cleared with 30-40 Kregs, 03's, M1's, an M14's, from more years than most of you have been alive. I don't recall those guys bitching an whining about the weapons they used.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydra, if you get ungrounded from the internet and read this I am totally with you. I too am a operator that is looking for one rifle to rule them all. I need a rifle that after engaging tangos from a perch on top of the tower at Isengard I can base jump off, jump on a warg and ride into the shire to clear it room to room. Now this rifle needs to be light, maybe under 3 oz. so to not wear out the warg. Now Gandalf told me once the the "DMR concept" has absolutely nothing to do with room clearing but i'm going with you know more than him, cause you seem legit. I was actually leaning toward the M1A but i'd advise to adding a narsil underneath to have something to engage ring wraiths with while clearing the shire. It might also need some sort of plasma type secondary attachment because that CPT America guy's shield is tough and he does hate him some hydra. P.S. SS is a dumbass </div></div>

Veej knows his <span style="font-style: italic">shit.</span>

bfja8p.jpg
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patriot Prepper</div></div>

What exactly is a prepper?</div></div>

You tell me. </div></div>

I'm gonna have to stay out of this one. I'm on like step seven or so of twelve in Demotivational Picture Posters Anonymous.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if Hydra found the wisdom he was looking for on Arfcom... </div></div>

He's showing Joe how to clear ships right now with the Barrett 50 CQB edition and BUIS from a helo at 1000 yards with real Operators.
 
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