AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

Vitorum

Vitorum

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 26, 2010
408
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TN
#1
Well I know what I want so far. Please keep in mind this is my first build and I'm not holding back very much when it comes to how much I'm putting into it. But there is a limit. I'm going with an Ops-4 ambi upper receiver, spector length ar stoner ss fluted barrel with a 1 and 8'' twist rate, tromix shark muzzle brake/flash hider, samson evo 9 ex free float, dimondhead front sight and troy rear DOA sight, AX556 ambi stripped lower, timney 3lb skeleton trigger or wilson combat two-stage trigger, stark qd pistol grip, full CAA SRSS, Brownells EZ takedown pins, and probably get a yhm Titanium Q.D. Phantom 5.56 unless someone knows of a better one within that price range. Then an anti-tilt buffer...not sure which one to go with though...any suggestions? Obviously there are things missing. Like for instance which buffer tube should I use with my CAA SRSS? But most importantly I cant figure out how, where, which or if I can get a Short stroke gas piston system to funtion with my free float setup. please keep in mind I'm new to this and am doing my best. I'ts taken me a long to time to finally decide on this exact build which I love to death and can't wait to assemble. What else am I missing besides optics? Thanks for your time guys I really appreciate it.
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#2
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

I would re think the Timney trigger I wish I would have
frown.gif

Timney makes a great trigger for a bolt gun and that's why I bought one for my AR but it was a big let down. Go with the Geissele. I wasn't real nutty about a two stage trigger until I felt Chiller's and now I need one, bad
 
#3
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would re think the Timney trigger I wish I would have
frown.gif

Timney makes a great trigger for a bolt gun and that's why I bought one for my AR but it was a big let down. Go with the Geissele. I wasn't real nutty about a two stage trigger until I felt Chiller's and now I need one, bad </div></div>

K I'll check it out. Anything else you can think of that I'm missing
 
#4
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

I'm very happy with my Timney. There may be better out there for the money but mine breaks clean at just a hair over 3 lbs.
 
#5
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

anyone know of a good anti-tilt buffer out there and a good buffer tube to go with my CAA SRSS?
 
#8
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

Anti-tilt really is only a problem if you are running a piston system. Nothing wrong with DI (gas), so that's the way I'd go. Yes, pistons have their advantages, but they also have their disadvantages. The AR15 was not designed as a piston gun from the ground up. I am not convinced that it is worth it in this platform.
 
#9
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johngfoster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anti-tilt really is only a problem if you are running a piston system. Nothing wrong with DI (gas), so that's the way I'd go. Yes, pistons have their advantages, but they also have their disadvantages. The AR15 was not designed as a piston gun from the ground up. I am not convinced that it is worth it in this platform. </div></div>

Well I appreciate your advice and truly respect it...to each his own I say. But I hear the same thing from the Gas piston guys as well and based on the research I've done the short-stroke gas piston kit from Adams arms is the way I would like to go. It makes the most sense to me. But like I said thanks for you info please dont take offense.
 
#11
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

I like the piston setup, especially on a SBR. I have a LWRC 10.5" and absolutely love it. My "precision" AR however, is a DI. I personally didn't feel like it was necessary to add the piston for this setup. YMMV. If you are set on a piston design, I would highly recommend LWRC or POF as an option. Maybe one of their uppers and pair it with a lower of your choice? Just another option. I looked at the piston options for a long time before deciding on the LWRC.

As far as the setup you have listed; I would highly recommend a Geissele. Now that I have one in my 18" AR, I want one in every AR I own. Absolutely perfect. I also have the Samson Evo rails and they are very nice. As far as stock choice, I highly recommend anything Magpul makes. Maybe their UBR or PRS? On your suppressor choice; I don't think you can run the Tromix with the QD suppressor. You will need to buy a phantom QD flash hider. Also, if you ever plan on shooting a 308, I would recommend buying a 30 cal can and use it for both your 308 and 223. Save you some money in the long run. Just a suggestion. My next purchase will be a Advanced Armament 762-sdn-6. Again, it's your choice.

If this a "precision" build, I would also recommend a WOA barrel. Not saying the one you chose is inferior (I have no experience with it), just a suggestion. I have one one mine and it is very accurate. Anyhow, just a few suggestions/observations. Good luck with your build. It is very rewarding to build one from the ground up and take it out and have it perform.
 
#12
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

If you want a piston system, you would do well to purchase an entire upper that has been built from the ground-up to be a piston setup. LWRC, Barrett, POF, they're all designed around the piston system. In contrast, buying an aftermarket conversion can often be problematic. I have seen lots of problems arise from these conversions. They lack reliability and durability. Some may be decent, but there are too many inter-disbursed into the category that are afterthoughts. All these gas systems use proprietary components, and when half of these companies go out of business in 10 years, what are you going to do to replace broken parts?

But here's the REAL question- why do you want a piston setup?
 
#13
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All these gas systems use proprietary components, and when half of these companies go out of business in 10 years, what are you going to do to replace broken parts?

But here's the REAL question- why do you want a piston setup?

</div></div>

If they all go out of business, then replace a couple parts and go back to DI. Not that big of a deal.

For what it is worth, I built an AR around an Adams Piston kit just because I wanted to try one. I had a couple problems initially. But it turns out they were my fault because I was using a barrel nut/handgaurd that was not approved. Now that I have the proper parts, it runs very well. Rapid fire 30 rounds the carrier was cool to the touch and completely clean. Granted I don't have a lot of shooting with it yet, but so far I like what I am seeing.

I would highly recommend buying the Adams Arms upper that has the smaller hole in it. I had 4 regular uppers I tried and the little spacer they give did not fit properly in any of them. It was either to loose, or way to tight. So I just bought one of their uppers and it was much easier.

I also would recommend White Oak barrels. I have had a total of 5 of them. Running 3 right now, they are all sub MOA shooters. My 18" one would shoot 5 shots groups in the .3s. They make a great barrel for a fair price.
 
#14
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

Wow you guys are really helpful. Serously I'm overwhelmed with help hear. I guess I'm going to take more time to rethink this build. I'm glad I only order the lower AX556 and nothing else yet. To answer the question " why do you want short-stroke gas-piston?". I don't want my gun getting so dirty from the standard gas setup where the gas enters the chamber after being rerouted through the gas block and tube. I dont want the impingment system because I've read it adds a lot of wear to bolt carrier.

I'm actually confused about the diference in systems btw. Could someone assist me in this matter. I thought there was only gas-piston and DI. But there is also Shortstroke gas piston? Basically there are two different gas-piston systems? One cleaner than the other?

Btw great suggestion about getting 7.62 suppressor. Thanks! I do plan on doing an AR-10 build one day and a .308 rem 700 which I would love to have a surpressor for.
 
#15
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

I would not worry to much about a DI wearing out a bolt carrier. I have over 12,000 rounds on my one DI AR and all I have ever done is replace some springs and the barrel once. It just keeps running and running.

As far as keeping things cleaner the piston will for sure do that. DI is very dirty.

Do go into this realizing that it is very possible that the piston system may create a whole new set of problems. I wanted to build one because tinkering with ARs has become a good hobby for me. I am constantly taking apart and rebuilding them. So a piston kit was something fun to try and see what kind of problems it may create.

But DI systems work very very well, they are very proven. Yes you have to do a little more cleaning, but even dirty they still run great. I shot over 2000 rounds once without cleaning, I just kept it lubed and it worked great.
 
#16
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not worry to much about a DI wearing out a bolt carrier. I have over 12,000 rounds on my one DI AR and all I have ever done is replace some springs and the barrel once. It just keeps running and running.

As far as keeping things cleaner the piston will for sure do that. DI is very dirty.

Do go into this realizing that it is very possible that the piston system may create a whole new set of problems. I wanted to build one because tinkering with ARs has become a good hobby for me. I am constantly taking apart and rebuilding them. So a piston kit was something fun to try and see what kind of problems it may create.

But DI systems work very very well, they are very proven. Yes you have to do a little more cleaning, but even dirty they still run great. I shot over 2000 rounds once without cleaning, I just kept it lubed and it worked great. </div></div>

Dangit you bastards are confussing me lol...Some tell me one way and others another. *Confussed face* I dont know what to do...Well I'll just rethink my build for a while and see what I can come up with. Thanks for all the help! It's great.
 
#17
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

btw im not really mad...and ur not Bastards...Its just frustratingly amuzing at how different we are when it comes to what we believe will work best.
 
#18
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

Both systems will run like a top if built correctly. I chose DI for my "long gun" (18" build) because I felt like the piston didn't really offer me anything. I chose a piston on the SBR (10.5" barrel) because the piston did have something to offer. With piston guns, there is less blow back when firing suppressed, and you usually have to do some "tweaking" with a DI gun once you drop to shorter barrel lengths to get it to run correctly. Also, a piston gun adds a little more weight to the front of the gun. Which is not a big deal in a short barrel rifle, but could make a small difference when added to a longer barrel setup. Especially if you plan on hanging a bunch of stuff off the front end. Just a heads up.

You should be good to go wither either setup. They will both last a long time and serve you well.
 
#21
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

So far as I know adjustable piston systems offer advantages for suppressed and/or carbine length or shorter gas systems, both of which cause higher pressures, add a 16" and you also increase dwell time, the high pressures won't wear your bolt, it will likely fail at the take down pin or lugs eventually, as the carrier attempts to rip the bolt and still expanded case from the chamber, it happened to mine after 4,000+ rounds. This can be overcome to a point with gas block regulators and/or heavier buffers. Piston systems apparently don't have these issues.
Pistons do not run cleaner or cooler. It just relocates the heat and fouling and can still in cases of severe neglect make the gun not function. Powder fouling and heat in the gas system will not go away as long as there is a gas system.
I have heard theories that DI guns can be made more accurate because there is not as much additional mass attached to the barrel and it doesn't move. I have not verified this.
Long story short, aside from a regulator in a carbine length or shorter gas system and/or suppressor usage there is no advantage to either, unless you're preferential to what parts you like cleaning.
 
#22
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

every gas piston system I look up says conversion. Can I not just get a gas piston system that is made to be a gas piston system and not a conversion for a DI? If someone could explain that would be great. Also if you could list for me all the parts that consist of making my own gas piston system that would be amazing. I know I'm a noob at this and I'm asking a lot but hey I figure if you don't ask then no one will ever tell. Then when the next guy comes along asking me I can save you the trouble of explaining.
smile.gif
ok so I've got my adjustable gas block, tube, key...? wait my upper comes with a key. - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/12/25/lar-grizzly-ops-4-upper-receiver-review/

I think I know what the problem is. I've been putting together an DI instead of a Gas piston? Ya if I'm right I just need to go with this kit? http://dynamicarmament.com/items/ar15-m-...-ada-detail.htm
Then an heavy buffer.
 
#23
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">every gas piston system I look up says conversion. Can I not just get a gas piston system that is made to be a gas piston system and not a conversion for a DI? If someone could explain that would be great. Also if you could list for me all the parts that consist of making my own gas piston system that would be amazing. I know I'm a noob at this and I'm asking a lot but hey I figure if you don't ask then no one will ever tell. Then when the next guy comes along asking me I can save you the trouble of explaining.
smile.gif
ok so I've got my adjustable gas block, tube, key...? wait my upper comes with a key. - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/12/25/lar-grizzly-ops-4-upper-receiver-review/

I think I know what the problem is. I've been putting together an DI instead of a Gas piston? Ya if I'm right I just need to go with this kit? http://dynamicarmament.com/items/ar15-m-...-ada-detail.htm
Then an heavy buffer.
</div></div>

The reason why you are only seeing "conversion kits" is because the AR15 was designed as a DI gun. There are a number of companies producing a piston AR15 from the factory, but each manufacturer's system is unique as there is no military standard to base it off of. Piston kits are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. There is nothing wrong with a DI gun...........DI has served the military well since Vietnam. Don't buy into the hype. If you are building this yourself with no prior experience, the piston kit can be a pain in the ass. If you want a piston gun, get an AK74. It's kind of like putting a V8 in a Miata; you can do it and people will think it's cool, but the car will still run better and faster around a track with a built 4 banger.
 
#24
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

If you have no experience with an AR, and you have no one readily available to help you troubleshoot or diagnose any problems that may arise, it would be best for you to stick with the most simple setup possible.
From what I'm reading, you are very much confused about the piston setups. It's good that you are doing the research. However, this is honestly not the website to be researching this stuff. A majority of stuff here is based around precision shooting. You would do well to go over to M4Carbine.net or AR15.com and start reading.

The conversion kits are systems that are bolt-on aftermarket systems. If you want a full system built from the factory, you need to buy a full upper from a company. As I stated above, Barrett, LWRC and others offer them.

There are legitimate reasons for piston setups, like running suppressed on SBRs. Not wanting to worry about a dirty bolt or a hot bolt are poor excuses in my book. Dirty hot rifles don't lose reliability or capability provided that you actually lube the weapon correctly. If you want one just to try it, cool. Just don't be that guy that drinks the "DI is bad and piston is the only way to go" Kool-Aid.
 
#25
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

^^^ agreed. Like I've stated before. I have both, and both serve their intended purpose very well. Even being a piston gun, I can still get blow back when suppressed. Just not as much as you would get with a DI gun. I feel that if you are not building an SBR, or a Suppressed SBR, then I would stick with the DI. It's good to go man.

Rock the DI setup, and if you feel like it isn't reliable or not exactly what you want; then you can buy the conversion kit.
 
#26
#27
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

Well I actually am a part of Ar15 forums. But I just like it better over here because everyone is so much nicer. They really expect you to just know everything right off. And the whole google is your friend thing gets old real fast. yes google is our friend but so are we to each other...Why else do we have the forums?

Anyways I will check with them some more but dont think that for a second that I'm shunning all this helpful info. It will all go in the mix. So ya I love the analogy with the car. That is something I def can relate to. Thanks for the recomendation on the barrel as well...I'm off to bed though. Thanks again for all the help.
 
#28
Re: AR-15 Build suggestions. Please read before reply.

I wanted to run a piston system badly when looking into building my first black rifle.

After tons of reading and talking to folks at the range I found that it was neither more reliable or "cleaner". It was just dirty elsewhere. I still wasn't going to back down infill I spent a while with some older guys and really discussed what I wanted.

In the end I realised I didn't give a Damn how the clock worked just that it told time consistantly and that there was a lot of options for repair available. I didn't care about being unique in this instance. I thought deep and hard on it and when I did buy I scrapped the .223 idea and went .308 anyway!
Just my .02.

Find out what you want, then fill that need. If you want to tinker for the sake of tinkering, which itself is just as admirable and rational then go forge new territory for yourself. If you want excellent reliability and support everywhere, go gas.
 
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