Are gps units outdated or needed for non mil?

[ma smith]

Navigation is navigation. They share so many qualities. Take away the .mil or hunter, and principles stay the same.

You’ve clearly never hunted the vast openness of the Alaskan Tundra. No trees, no significant terrain to associate with. Top that off with the terrain(hippy head) making you think your a pro footballer in training camp the way you move in circle or high knees. Then we will toss in the sun, which may or may not set or rise completely depending on when you are there. If you don’t fly in, you are required to walk 5 miles off the main road to hunt with a firearm. Guaranteed to test your ability to return to your truck without a good gps.

+1 not to pile on, but GPS really is useful, so is a compass.

For general use I prefer a paper map for point to point navigation. Dead reconing using LOS is fast and reliable; a GPS is/should be accessible for strategic decisions, and for times where LOS/adequate visibility is lost for some reason (darkness).

The compass is typically only necessary in modern workflow for places where the above don't work.

GPS is defeated by LOS blockages to the sky (eg tree cover, canyons). Also unit misplacement, failure of unit, failure of power source, etc. Even GOOD compass is about ±1oz and not a big deal to keep in your FAK or emergency grab bag.

 

[hlee]

Navigation is navigation. They share so many qualities. Take away the .mil or hunter, and principles stay the same.

You’ve clearly never hunted the vast openness of the Alaskan Tundra. No trees, no significant terrain to associate with. Top that off with the terrain(hippy head) making you think your a pro footballer in training camp the way you move in circle or high knees. Then we will toss in the sun, which may or may not set or rise completely depending on when you are there. If you don’t fly in, you are required to walk 5 miles off the main road to hunt with a firearm. Guaranteed to test your ability to return to your truck without a good gps.

The principles are the same, yes. But, the hunter has advantages that the .mil guy does not. Principally, the hunter has the advantage of knowing where he started. He drove his pickup/Jeep/Prius to some point, typically easily identifyable on a map. The .mil guy may have un-assed a jet over an area he had no intention of ever seeing on foot. He has to find his location on the map with no pre-planned reference. Hell, he may have un-assed a boat and now has to find a dry place to put his feet- with no reference point at all. And, even when there is a pre-planned insertion point, there is no guarantee that the .mil guy was actually put where he was supposed to be. Beyond that, the hunter can take advantage of the trail network that criss-crosses much of the public land in the US (I'll restrain my argument to the lower 48, see below), while the .mil guy may be constrained to not use established roads and trails. They are still useful reference points, but he can't just look at his feet as they move be able to find camp. The hunter has the choice of when and where he goes. The .mil guy may be stumbling around in the dark, over unfamiliar terrain, with a prohibition in the use of artificial light for navigation. Finally (though not exclusively), the recreational hunter has floated quite a way down shit creek (and lost both paddles) before he must rely on celestial navigation- where the post you initially quoted originated in my mind. All of this is to say that the land nav requirements of the recreational hunter are well within the limits of a middle school age boy scout who has completed his/her orienteering merit badge. (That his/her thing is really weird to type in this reference. Fuckin' 2022, right?)

You are correct that I have never hunted Alaska. My understanding of Alaska comes from a cursory reading of the regulations several years ago- and things may have changed. But, my impression was that one must be an AK resident, or hire a guide, to back-country hunt in AK. Perhaps the rules have changed. Perhaps it is just the species I was researching at the time. But, hiring a guide puts the onus of navigation on the guide- a professional hunter, and beyond the scope of my quote (the recreational hunter/client). For the average lower-48er, hunting AK is not a weekend excursion, or even a yearly event.

And, I am by no means arguing against the use of a GPS unit. See my earlier post referencing a GPS unit as required emergency gear that may be used quite frequently. Mine rides in a pouch on the hip-belt of my pack, silently recording my track as I meander in search of my intended game.

Re. tundra ==> trackback/breadcrumb/etc are especially useful GPS unit features over "low complexity" terrain.

What do I mean by 'Low complexity terrain?' Alaskan tundra (other tundras as well I would imagine), the unbroken plains of the central US (flat, treeless, unpopulated), the shifting dunes of the Sahara (adding unreliable terrain features to the mix), boating beyond the sight of land (terrain? What terrain?), many others as well.

@308pirate has inadvertently pointed out a critical deficiency in stand alone GPS units- I cannot surf porn on my Garmin, even sitting here in the house.

 

[308pirate]

The .mil guy may have un-assed a jet over an area he had no intention of ever seeing on foot. He has to find his location on the map with no pre-planned reference. Hell, he may have un-assed a boat and now has to find a dry place to put his feet- with no reference point at all. And, even when there is a pre-planned insertion point, there is no guarantee that the .mil guy was actually put where he was supposed to be

I can't speak for people who served on land, but at sea one is virtually never unaware of where one is. I would bet on people in land operations being well briefed on all navigational aspects of a mission more often than not.

@308pirate has inadvertently pointed out a critical deficiency in stand alone GPS units- I cannot surf porn on my Garmin, even sitting here in the house.

Need paper backup

 

[roostercogburn98]

- I cannot surf porn on my Garmin, even sitting here in the house.

Annnnnnd just like that, the GPS became useles to me

 

[roostercogburn98]

I can't speak for people who served on land, but at sea one is virtually never unaware of where one is. I would bet on people in land operations being well briefed on all navigational aspects of a mission more often than not.

For the most part true. Even an airborne insertion has dedicated azimuths given for link up points. Most times during the pre jump fiasco no less. How well a jumper listens and retains is another story, but exiting an aircraft at odark thirty can disorient a person real quick. I agree with @hlee on not everyone knowing where they start in the .mil world BUT will caveat with even a hunter may be in that predicament very fast. One small error in your travel plans could leave a hunter in a plane crash, boat accident (even worse cause surely he lost his gun) or some kind or delivery platform accident.

 

[hlee]

I can't speak for people who served on land, but at sea one is virtually never unaware of where one is. I would bet on people in land operations being well briefed on all navigational aspects of a mission more often than not.


Need paper backup

As would I. But, the hunter has an additional advantage that the .mil guy does not. He doesn't need to train for the concept encapsulated by that most famous of Mike Tyson quotes; "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Honest question, not a challenge. Given the hypothetical that you had to jump from your boat, how closely could you plot your jumping off point? As a recreational hunter, I can point to the spot on the map where I left the truck- right next to the marked trailhead, which is the starting point of the marked trail I will be using to get to wherever I decide to camp. The guy unintentionally leaving the confines of his cockpit- fully briefed, but landing in the dark, without visual reference points- how closely can he plot his landing point? Within a square mile? Better? How about those the airborne troops scattered all over Normandy during the D-day invasion? Yes, they got it done, but they had to start by figuring out where they were- and it was not (by and large) where they were supposed to be. All of you are well behind the 8-ball compared to the hunter that chooses when, where, and how to go. The task of navigation is simpler for the hunter.

 

[hlee]

For the most part true. Even an airborne insertion has dedicated azimuths given for link up points. Most times during the pre jump fiasco no less. How well a jumper listens and retains is another story, but exiting an aircraft at odark thirty can disorient a person real quick. I agree with @hlee on not everyone knowing where they start in the .mil world BUT will caveat with even a hunter may be in that predicament very fast. One small error in your travel plans could leave a hunter in a plane crash, boat accident (even worse cause surely he lost his gun) or some kind or delivery platform accident.

The number of gun owners that have lost their guns in boating accidents would certainly have depleted the population to endangered status if a boating accident was an emergency necessitating the use of a GPS unit for navigation...

 

[akmike47]

To is one, one is none.

 

[brian1]

I hadn't heard of the onX app. I just downloaded it. Pretty cool - very interesting just for seeing who owns what parcels around me in town. I can see where this would be super for hunting. Thanks for the tip.

 

[hlee]

To is one, one won is none.

Fixed...

 

[akmike47]

Fixed...

Juan is none

 

[MadDuner]

Juan is none

Is he related to Hose A?

 

[akmike47]

Is he related to Hose A?

C

 

[308pirate]

Honest question, not a challenge. Given the hypothetical that you had to jump from your boat, how closely could you plot your jumping off point?

Depends where I am.

In a coastal piloting environment, I'd know where I am within 100 yards or better GPS or no GPS.

In a bluewater environment, within one nautical mile or better depending on what I last used to fix my position.

 

[cas6969]

Sue? Si.

 

[Tortuga]

i can't decide between inreach explorer + or the 66i

I know you are local, let me know if you want to mess with both. We have every Garmin from 60-66 series and a couple of Explorers I got for test and eval to possibly replace SHOUT ts. I also have some Montanas and Forerunners.
Hardware-wise, I am a fan of the 66.

 

[Tortuga]

Is garmin still king? Last unit I had was a 401 but it came off my wrist breaking contact in ghazni. I guess I should of asked more of should I bother with a hand held with a screen and nice maps since iPhone will be my primary and just get something else like a 401 for backup. On a long backpacking hunt i would have a paper map of area as well.

Yup, Garmin is still top dog. I love both my 601 and all of my 60-66 series. If I could only have one, it would be a handheld. '
Handheld:
More and better screens
(Arguably) Stronger antenna
(In my experience) easier to teach
AA batteries (I like all or at least most of my gear to use the same battery).
Forunner:
Smaller and wrist mount (lost on me, I carry it on chest rig or pack strap)
Low cost
AAA (Yuck)
Simple (maybe too simple?)

 

[bohica17]

I hadn't heard of the onX app. I just downloaded it. Pretty cool - very interesting just for seeing who owns what parcels around me in town. I can see where this would be super for hunting. Thanks for the tip.

Pay for the basic membership, being able to look up property owners is so nice. I actually use it for work more to an anything doing oups markings and shit.

 

[elwarpo]

The maps do not

There are sites that allow you to download maps onto your phone and use them with your phone gps. A phone withiut them is very limited. With the diwnloaded maps, a phone will be just as goid as a gps. That said, I carry a Garmin dakota gps. Small and powerful.

 

[308pirate]

There are sites that allow you to download maps onto your phone and use them with your phone gps

Link please?

 

[Hairball]

no. but depending how many months you plan on using it a subscription might make more sense versus paying the by month extra fee

I have an inReach Explorer + that I pay 12 dollars a month to keep active. If I get into real trouble and have to pay extra for each call, I don’t care.

 

[spife7980]

Link please?

Google maps, Tap your names initial in the top right to pull up the menu/settings and there is an offline maps section

 

[308pirate]

Google maps, Tap your names initial in the top right to pull up the menu/settings and there is an offline maps section

I don't have a google account

 

[elwarpo]

Google maps
US government US Grological Survey pdf maps
There are also aps like offline maps and navigation, map factor...

 

[elwarpo]

Btw all above is for android, do not have an iphone. Usgs maps are pdf so used like a regular map without gps functions.

 

[Yondering]

Because I haven’t purchased a gps since 2012 I haven’t used one since then either and I have had no problems with my phone and was curious about some of the new gps on the market and was curious what other dudes are using. Sorry me proving you wrong about a phone caused you to go on a passive aggressive rant lol

It's pretty clear from the responses that most of the people here
1) have no clue about using a good gps app on a phone,
and
2) can't answer a simple freaking question and instead answer something different, like whether a gps or paper maps are better.
Good grief.

Might as well throw in my experience, and attempt to answer what you actually asked: I carry an iPhone with a gps app, plus a backup battery pack, and no longer bother with a dedicated GPS because I see no reason to carry one.

My relevant background - I'm not a back country multi-day hunter, but our hunting property is large enough for day trips and plenty thick enough to get lost in, so I use a gps there. More relevant, I've been into fairly hard core dual sport (read street legal dirt bike, not the big road-bound stuff) exploring for a lot of years, which often involves following single track for miles in woods that offer limited visibility, so a gps is critical to figuring out where you are.

I started carrying a gps for those activities back when they had tiny monochrome low-res screens, but even that was a big help. Just knowing where you are relative to your backtrail made a big difference. Then the GPS units evolved a bit, with color and better res, but about the iphone 6s era, roughly, the smartphones started offering better maps and better resolution, with the same precision in my own testing. Once that happened, the dedicated units quickly became irrelevant to me.

Lots of half truths and outright bullshit have been claimed in this thread, here's my thoughts from direct experience.

My gps app handles offline maps easily; I typically download Google Terrain and Google Hybrid (satellite and streets) and can do so for anywhere in the world at no charge. No need to pay for more maps for specific areas. And I can load whatever map type I want, it's not limited to a certain brand or provider. Storage space is not a problem unless you're a moron with a phone full of porn and a full hard drive.

My gps app shows the back trail by default, as soon as a new track is started. In fact I don't know of a single gps app that doesn't do this; they generally work the same way as a Garmin or whatever in that respect.

Cell service is completely unnecessary. Any iPhone from gen 4 or newer will operate the gps (and a gps app of course) without cell service, giving you all the same features as a Garmin. Anything from a 6s or newer has a built in barometer as well so you can read density altitude too.

Visibility of the screen is a non-issue.
While I wouldn't intentionally swim with my iPhones, they've been dunked when I've fallen in stream crossings with no issue, and have handled a lot of miles of vibration. To be fair, the old iPhone 4s would sometimes overheat when using GPS in a clear case exposed to direct sunlight in the summer, but that hasn't been an issue on newer phones.

Battery life is less of an issue than most here are claiming, especially if you take some time to turn off all the things draining your battery. For about $30 you can get a good battery pack about the size of the phone that is good for another 4-8 charges, or a lot more for more $$. My battery pack is 20,000 mAh, so it's good for a long time. IIRC the phone battery is a bit less than 2,000 mAh, so do the math. And no, the battery packs are not "HEAVY". Mine weighs about the same as the phone.

None of this is about the need for paper maps or a compass or anything related to "comms". Or a swiss army knife, or a flashlight, or a rubber ding dong. It's just about whether a handheld GPS is better than the same functions on a smart phone. For me, I use the iphone.

Also, a lot of you less tech-savvy guys are probably still hung up on the word "phone". It's a handheld computer; learn to use it as such. The phone part is pretty irrelevant compared to anything else.

 

[C-130 Dude]

P.A.C.E.=Primary, Alternate, Contingency, and Emergency.
That's the formula when it comes to navigation or comms.

More importantly, know how to use what you have and be honest with yourself. When is the last time you made a nav plan using a map and compass/protractor?

Every time I go out. If you don't do it, you lose edge. Saved my bacon a couple of times. I was traversing a loose shale ridge and went down on my ass 100 ft or so. GPS was toast. Map and compass saved my ass. Never leave home without it.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I'm a fan of backups. I still have a compass and map. I've always been taught it's good to have a section map of your AO. Even if you have gps, and other electronic aids. Maps don't die

Well said.

 

[Yondering]

Link please?

Pretty much every good gps app out there. And I mean the decent ones you have to pay for, not the free crap you've probably tried.

Duh.

 

[308pirate]

And I mean the decent ones you have to pay for

That's not gonna happen

 

[Yondering]

That's not gonna happen

Of course. Because paying $800 for a Garmin that doesn’t do as much as a $20 iPhone app makes so much sense.

Have you ever considered actually knowing both sides of a comparison before running your mouth about your opinion?

 

[308pirate]

Of course. Because paying $800 for a Garmin that doesn’t do as much as a $20 iPhone app makes so much sense.

Have you ever considered actually knowing both sides of a comparison before running your mouth about your opinion?

It isn't the money.

And who pays $800 for a Garmin, or any other GPS for that matter, to get lat/lon out of it and mark a few waypoints?

We're talking basic land navigation, not guiding a TERCOM Tomahawk to its target.

 

[bab029]

Used onX on an iPhone for 8 days in airplane mode. Charged off a battery bank a couple times. My 62st would eat batts about the same rate, have shittier maps, and less useful interface. It does have the advantage in ruggedness, works in the rain, etc.

I carried a small compass and a printed map as backup.

But hunting drainages in Colorado makes it pretty easy to keep track of which way to go….

 

[Bill Jenkins]

Was looking into getting another gps, but with the built in location services and onX hunt is there really a need for the average hunter/hiker? I have used onX for years. Me and some buddies hunted AEP land in Ohio for spring turkey last year and will be again this year. onX app was flawless even with shitty cell service. Should I invest in a gps unit for hunting and scouting anymore? Plan on a elk trip in the near future but can’t find a reason to buy one because the iPhone is killing it at the moment.

Remember a GPS unit or Mobile phone sat nav are an aid to navigation you will end up lost, dead or putting other at risk if you can not read a map and compass and just trust to battery powered devices

 

[hlee]

My absolute, number uno, reason for using a stand alone GPS unit instead of an iPhone app while on a back country hunt...

Get ready...

Are you ready?

Its not a damned phone. Fuck, I'm trying to get away from that damned thing...

 

[HaydenLane]

Was looking into getting another gps, but with the built in location services and onX hunt is there really a need for the average hunter/hiker? I have used onX for years. Me and some buddies hunted AEP land in Ohio for spring turkey last year and will be again this year. onX app was flawless even with shitty cell service. Should I invest in a gps unit for hunting and scouting anymore? Plan on a elk trip in the near future but can’t find a reason to buy one because the iPhone is killing it at the moment.

OnX on my iPhone is my primary GPS. I have an InReach Mini and an Instinct 2 should something happen to my phone. I wouldn’t consider buying a full sized handheld GPS with the technology available today for any hunting in the lower 48. Phones offer better resolution, easier to use menus, and you don’t have to pay extra/swap chips for different states.

Cell phone
Paper map/compass
inReach mini

That covers everything the average hunter, hiker, or backpacker needs.

 

[Blackwind]

GPS units are light, cheap and accurate.

Maps and compasses are lighter, cheaper, and always work.

bring both.

I have always had an InReach as long as they have existed. Dating back to the Delorme days and I still have an Earthmate PN-60. Back in those days, for emergency comm, I was carrying an ACR PLB SARLink. Today, most of my hunting partners have an InReach Mini/Mini2 and I carry a 66i. I have paper maps and a compass for emergency use. I do not rely on my phone at all, period. I have to shake my head at those that do.

 

[Wodan]

This. I have seen a dozen people go into the back country trying to use their phone and got totally lost, and have had it happen to one idiot in my elk hunting party. He dropped five grand of altitude looking at his stupid phone trying to find a camp that was at the same altitude he started. My first question was, "Didn't you know something was wrong when you started going down, down, down?" "Hey Brah, I was looking at my phone!" It's just stupid, but then again I'm the guy who thinks going with JUST a GPS and no map and compass is stupid.

I've actually been made fun of for having laminated topo maps and a compass by a moron using his phone.

Get the GPS, but also have a compass and a laminated topo of the area in which you are hunting. It doesn't have to be some detailed large scale map either. A small scale beyond where you plan on going is fine.

I don't know what it's like to be lost or loose your shit, but I've had it happen to people I was loosely responsible for, and it fucked up my hunt for at least a day, and that is not kewl.

Amen……………never rely solely on electronic gadgets. Learn to map read and use a compass. It always gets you to where you need to go

 

[hlee]

Backup phone battery + flashlight + 1 pair of flashlight batteries (installed) vs gps unit + flashlight + 5 pair of batteries compatible between both + the 2 pair of batteries installed in the devices… A backup battery may not be heavy, but it is heavier and less adaptable.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I have too many to count hard / soft case packages. When running a soft package, I always use a pelican case to protect the SAT phone / GPS locating device (remember Lone Survivor?, tumbled down an Afghan mountain only to find his electronics destroyed).
A few examples of soft v. hard case setup. The hard cases are continuously recharged via external ports for immediate deployment and use in car, boat etc. An Iridium sat phone subscription costs ~$50 / month.......simple ER visit after being rescued ? / autopsy costs........thousands of dollars. Piece of mind, priceless. They electronics are not foolproof but your family and friends will appreciate your thoughfulness. The Iridium Extreme is really nice as it has a SOS button you can push to automatically assign 3 separate phone #'s to call and sends a GPS map with the phone location within several meters of your location. In north american, the 911 is active as it downloads to a center in arizona and contacts the nearest LE / Coast Guard, etc based on GPS location. Lots to like for $2 / day if one is serious about survival.

 

[bohica17]

Th

It's pretty clear from the responses that most of the people here
1) have no clue about using a good gps app on a phone,
and
2) can't answer a simple freaking question and instead answer something different, like whether a gps or paper maps are better.
Good grief.

Might as well throw in my experience, and attempt to answer what you actually asked: I carry an iPhone with a gps app, plus a backup battery pack, and no longer bother with a dedicated GPS because I see no reason to carry one.

My relevant background - I'm not a back country multi-day hunter, but our hunting property is large enough for day trips and plenty thick enough to get lost in, so I use a gps there. More relevant, I've been into fairly hard core dual sport (read street legal dirt bike, not the big road-bound stuff) exploring for a lot of years, which often involves following single track for miles in woods that offer limited visibility, so a gps is critical to figuring out where you are.

I started carrying a gps for those activities back when they had tiny monochrome low-res screens, but even that was a big help. Just knowing where you are relative to your backtrail made a big difference. Then the GPS units evolved a bit, with color and better res, but about the iphone 6s era, roughly, the smartphones started offering better maps and better resolution, with the same precision in my own testing. Once that happened, the dedicated units quickly became irrelevant to me.

Lots of half truths and outright bullshit have been claimed in this thread, here's my thoughts from direct experience.

My gps app handles offline maps easily; I typically download Google Terrain and Google Hybrid (satellite and streets) and can do so for anywhere in the world at no charge. No need to pay for more maps for specific areas. And I can load whatever map type I want, it's not limited to a certain brand or provider. Storage space is not a problem unless you're a moron with a phone full of porn and a full hard drive.

My gps app shows the back trail by default, as soon as a new track is started. In fact I don't know of a single gps app that doesn't do this; they generally work the same way as a Garmin or whatever in that respect.

Cell service is completely unnecessary. Any iPhone from gen 4 or newer will operate the gps (and a gps app of course) without cell service, giving you all the same features as a Garmin. Anything from a 6s or newer has a built in barometer as well so you can read density altitude too.

Visibility of the screen is a non-issue.
While I wouldn't intentionally swim with my iPhones, they've been dunked when I've fallen in stream crossings with no issue, and have handled a lot of miles of vibration. To be fair, the old iPhone 4s would sometimes overheat when using GPS in a clear case exposed to direct sunlight in the summer, but that hasn't been an issue on newer phones.

Battery life is less of an issue than most here are claiming, especially if you take some time to turn off all the things draining your battery. For about $30 you can get a good battery pack about the size of the phone that is good for another 4-8 charges, or a lot more for more $$. My battery pack is 20,000 mAh, so it's good for a long time. IIRC the phone battery is a bit less than 2,000 mAh, so do the math. And no, the battery packs are not "HEAVY". Mine weighs about the same as the phone.

None of this is about the need for paper maps or a compass or anything related to "comms". Or a swiss army knife, or a flashlight, or a rubber ding dong. It's just about whether a handheld GPS is better than the same functions on a smart phone. For me, I use the iphone.

Also, a lot of you less tech-savvy guys are probably still hung up on the word "phone". It's a handheld computer; learn to use it as such. The phone part is pretty irrelevant compared to anything else.

Thanks man that was a good write up. I had an iPhone XR that was great and recently upgraded to the 13 pro max thing can do way more than I know how to. What battery pack are you using because that was something I did need last year turkey hunting with tent camping and no electric. Had to leave the truck running to charge up our phones. Not horrible but diesel prices are great now.

 

[Yondering]

Th

Thanks man that was a good write up. I had an iPhone XR that was great and recently upgraded to the 13 pro max thing can do way more than I know how to. What battery pack are you using because that was something I did need last year turkey hunting with tent camping and no electric. Had to leave the truck running to charge up our phones. Not horrible but diesel prices are great now.

I forget what model #, but the one I'm using now is an Anker brand, 20,000 mAh. It's been great. My older pack was only 5,000 mAh (still enough for 3+ full charges) and a little lighter, but neither one are very heavy.

 

[Yondering]

bruh.....i can buy a Garmin Fortrex for $200....


hell, i can buy a used GPS for <$100.

If you want anywhere near the features and capability you can get with a decent smartphone GPS app, you'll be paying a heck of a lot more than $200. And since most of us already have decent smartphones, why not take advantage of those capabilities instead of limiting yourself to a bare bones handheld unit?

I think some of you are stuck on using a standalone gps more because you don't know much about using a smartphone for the same purpose, rather than any real benefits. There was a time when that stance made sense, as I said above I used them for years myself, but those times are long gone. The pic of hlee's dinky old mini Maglite flashlight is a pretty good example of the level of technological expertise being presented in a lot of the comments here.

 

[david walter]

Having just now read the whole thread, I think it’s odd that no one has mentioned GPS enabled watches. My Suunto, which I’ve had for ten years, will pull down my lat/long in a few seconds. Then any paper or iPhone map program, I use onX (Hunt, Off-road, or Back country) to confirm location.

My watch has backtrack ability, and I never take it off when afield. Not bomb proof, but pretty hard to screw up. And charges off of a USB.

So I always know where I am, route back, and elevation, compass, etc.

Theodolite, a location app, can be used with your camera to set a heading, which you can screenshot to save power and refresh as needed.

I have a pair of Garmin 750 GPS, but will probably sell them soon as they are redundant with other things (iPhone, Garmin Oregon, maps, other hand held comms). The screens are very small, and therefore less than useful to me.

A bunch of people I know purchased last generation iPad minis and mounted them to the handlebars or dash of their off road 4x4 or Razors. These have the same functionality as iPhones, I’m told, and can be used for navigation.

The problem, as I see it, is the solution set is very broad. Pick a technology and learn it well, and always have a compass and map as a back up seems to work for me.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Rumor came out this week that the new iPhone 'may' have limited satellite connectivity for "emergency" use, using texts when cell service is not available in iOS16.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I've had several Suunto watches over the past 8 years or so. The battery life sucked and the company support is worse; no longer able to buy
replacement watch bands, within the past year band fractured, no where in the world is another band available to buy. GPS unit became a paper weight, recently just tossed in the trash can in frustration. Won't buy any more of their products.

 

[david walter]

The comment by me was more about using GPS watches to fix your location, than about the joys of SUUNTO. Their wristbands suck. I'm on my 3d? 4th?

 

[Blackwind]

I know of at least three instances where a cell phone and cell phone mapping apps...failed. Leaving a person and, in one case, a few people ....lost.

In two instances, we found people after several hours. One example found one person the following day using a thermal scope. Fortunately, they DID have a space blanket, and they stayed put in the area for the night. I use InReach because it beats a cell phone, hands down in mapping and .......comms.

 

[BipThatInstance]

TL;DR = GPS is still very viable, and meshes well with almost any other orienteering/communications gear. Has the benefit of easy-to-change batteries and long-ish battery life versus your phone or another device.

Honestly, just bringing the phone out is not the worst for your original use case of running around on AEP land in OH (or any other not-bumfuck MWA). Did just that across OH, NJ, TN, and KY but would bring a topo map just in case. There is definitely a learning curve with it, not the hardest thing in the world, I mean they teach it to every dumbshit Private and ROTC cadet in the world lol - but there are obviously nuances with it - and getting good imagery with accurate elevation data can sometimes be a bit difficult where you're going.

With that difficulty of getting good imagery/elevation data in mind, I'm still going to bring up ATAK/CivTAK, surprised it was not at least casually mentioned. The whole "End User Device" thing has grown a lot since I was involved in early T&E with it at 101 and later in Group, the DOD can still barely get SDR/MANET right, but there is quite an enthusiastic community across all walks of life (professionally or not) for ATAK/CivTAK and the default applications go a long way with just basic trip planning all the way to some really nifty near real time location and collaboration. It is way too much to go on here, but there is a community on Reddit (yeah, I know, that place is digital ass-cancer) around it and a lot of other great channels on YT and otherwise who go from basics to more advanced stuff.

I use it a lot for volunteer SAR work I do now, but for planning a trip, it can be a great tool to supplement your normal comms (onX, radios, SATCOM, etc.) as you can setup references, check elevation to make sure you don't take a spill down a mountainside, plan your route and have a more interactive view into where you're going versus staring at topo maps or shitty Google Earth imagery all day.

All that BS aside, if you are going out the brush, that subscription for an Iridium may help a lot as well as some handhelds that can push at least a modicum of wattage (5W+) or so to have alternative ways to communicate. As to your original question, I still think GPS is very viable, great way to get coordinates and find your bearing so you can either relay it on your radio/phone/SATCOM or use it as a way to plan your route on an analog Topo map. I still use an old Foretrex 401 that has been on every continent except Antarctica - at least with those units changing the battery is simpler than a handheld or relying on trickle-charging off of a solar panel.

Definitely gave you a bunch of slightly-related BS talking points. Hope some of it helped.

 

[Herb Stoner]

Map guy here.

For many years I've been a hiker going up to 3 weeks at a time hiking the backcountry in the mountain west. With that, I simply don't want to carry the extra weight so no phone, GPS, etc. - even if it is a few ounces. Pack weight without food and water is 7-8 lbs. including bag, shelter, cooking, etc.

The key for me is familiarizing myself with the area via studying maps extensively before the trip so I always have a good idea where I am in relation to key landmarks without referring to the map very often.

The big downside of phones and GPS is we now have a lot of inexperienced people deep in areas where they get in trouble quickly if the technology fails. I've come across the lost (who shouldn't be) due to blind faith in technology to lead them home. Various reasons with ones I've encountered - dead batteries, wet or broken equipment due to weather, breakage from slipping on a river crossing or other unplanned disasters, or can't figure out where they are even if the phone / GPS works.