- Thread starter superwolf
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You mean between the military and civilian version? No. Rifle itself is the same. Of course, the accessory package is different.
Iron sights radius?
Will be trying the M24 open sights next weekend. Looking back at different pictures of M24's, I noticed that the front sight base is not always the same distance from the muzzle.
For the iron sights to have the correct minutes/mils adjustments, there must be some kind of calculations as to where the front sight should be located in relation to the rear? Or it doesnt matter, you just zero the iron sights and be done with it?
I've seen the front base as close to 1/4" from the muzzle, and as far as 1"...
Anyone care to explain?
Will be trying the M24 open sights next weekend. Looking back at different pictures of M24's, I noticed that the front sight base is not always the same distance from the muzzle.
For the iron sights to have the correct minutes/mils adjustments, there must be some kind of calculations as to where the front sight should be located in relation to the rear? Or it doesnt matter, you just zero the iron sights and be done with it?
I've seen the front base as close to 1/4" from the muzzle, and as far as 1"...
Anyone care to explain?
I want to build the best sniper system ever created, an M24. But, I am a total fucktard, what should I buy first?
Go back to page 1, and read the whole 24 pages of this thread. Any fucktard can do that.
I noticed that the front sight base is not always the same distance from the muzzle.
For the iron sights to have the correct minutes/mils adjustments, there must be some kind of calculations as to where the front sight should be located in relation to the rear? Or it doesnt matter, you just zero the iron sights and be done with it?
I've seen the front base as close to 1/4" from the muzzle, and as far as 1"...
Anyone care to explain?
I have no explanation as to why M24 clone builders can't place the front sight base where it belongs. GAP is notorious for the misplacement. I think its embarrassing. The center of the screw hole nearest the muzzle is 1 1/16" back from the muzzle and all Remington's are this way. Armament Technologies and Texas Brigade Armory clones do it correctly but I can't speak for the rest of the builders.
As to whether the sight placements are correlated to the calculations, I wouldn't want to bet my life on the difference. Per any iron sight placement, the further the front and rear sights are from each other, (the sight radius), the more accurate the sight and shot placement will be.
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Just checked my front sight base and it's close but not exact at 1 1/8". I made a guesstimate based on photos but now have the true measurement for next barrel! As always this thread has excellent details on the specs.
MescaBug there is a formula for sight movements which takes the thread pitch on the rear sight, gives you a movement per sight minute and based on sight radius will calculate either movement on target or sight radius required for true sight minutes. The Redfield Palma should move .00833" per sight minute, I just have to dig up the rest of the formula now.
The limitation on the M24 will be the inability to change the sight radius, whereas on a target rifle there is some latitude to build with a sight radius that suits what you want for on the target movement. So we are all stuck with whatever the M24 rear sight and sight radius combination gives us.
Most Palma type rifles are built on a 36" sight radius to arrive at true MOA corrections and I believe that the Redfield movement is the same as say a Warner rear sight.
Any wonder my wife calls me Cliff Clavin?
MescaBug there is a formula for sight movements which takes the thread pitch on the rear sight, gives you a movement per sight minute and based on sight radius will calculate either movement on target or sight radius required for true sight minutes. The Redfield Palma should move .00833" per sight minute, I just have to dig up the rest of the formula now.
The limitation on the M24 will be the inability to change the sight radius, whereas on a target rifle there is some latitude to build with a sight radius that suits what you want for on the target movement. So we are all stuck with whatever the M24 rear sight and sight radius combination gives us.
Most Palma type rifles are built on a 36" sight radius to arrive at true MOA corrections and I believe that the Redfield movement is the same as say a Warner rear sight.
Any wonder my wife calls me Cliff Clavin?
not saying it doesnt happen, but my GAP M24 circa 2004 is right on the money
I kinda hate to break it to you but your GAP front sight is exactly what MescaBug is talking about. The front sight base is too far forward. This is my Remington M24. The center of the screw hole for the screw nearest the muzzle is 1 1/6" rear of the muzzle. The fact that your flash suppressor fits is really immaterial here. Secondly, unless that front sight mount has a detent on both sides, they mounted it backwards which would cause you to mount the Redfield Big Bore sight backwards. Someone should really tell GAP that they're messing up people's very expensive builds. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news VJJ.
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BTW, for those of you looking for the Hardigg coffin case, there is one on eBay right now for a steal of a price. Hardigg Rifle Case Military Storage Container Heavy Duty 49x16x11 Army | eBay
Don't know the guy but this should be hard to pass up. There are other Hardigg coffins on eBay but they're more than this one.
Don't know the guy but this should be hard to pass up. There are other Hardigg coffins on eBay but they're more than this one.
thanks, learn something new everyday. Never really thought that much on the dimension from the front and didnt stand out as wrong to me but i appreciate the knowledge.
on the mounting of the front base right or left, very good catch and you are correct. That pic was after i had removed the front sight base to reloctite the screws after one was a little loose and put it back on, i guess i put it back on backards (mental note to fix when i get back). I will say this however, I recall a classmate asking an instructor if there was a correct way to put the front sight on since his base was different than everyone else's in the course, i recall the instructor said this "yes there is but it doesnt matter, it's personnal preference, some guys turn there bases around because they prefer the rounded shadow hood towards them verse the flat or vice versa" not arguing anything just a note for discussion. That point may be very true using the olympic globe but not so much if you run one of these style(cant recall the name) seen here I use on my Howa
on the mounting of the front base right or left, very good catch and you are correct. That pic was after i had removed the front sight base to reloctite the screws after one was a little loose and put it back on, i guess i put it back on backards (mental note to fix when i get back). I will say this however, I recall a classmate asking an instructor if there was a correct way to put the front sight on since his base was different than everyone else's in the course, i recall the instructor said this "yes there is but it doesnt matter, it's personnal preference, some guys turn there bases around because they prefer the rounded shadow hood towards them verse the flat or vice versa" not arguing anything just a note for discussion. That point may be very true using the olympic globe but not so much if you run one of these style(cant recall the name) seen here I use on my Howa
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Your classmate may have had a late model M24 with the OK Weber iron sights which is why he as asking the question, the TM does not cover the change in the iron sights from Redfield to OK Weber and they are markedly different in appearance. The same is true for them however. They only go on one way and that way depends on which way the base is mounted. The Redfield was intended to be mounted so the knob was on the right hand side of the weapon. Of course the M24 just adopted an off-the-shelf set of irons that would serve the purpose. Remington mounted the front sight base accordingly the same as they did for their 40X rifles. As to why your instructor told him it didn't matter which way it was mounted, I have no response to, except my jaw is slightly agape. One might indeed like it better one way better than the other but that's not the way it was intended to be used. Hell I never understood why Remington mounted the scope rings with the mounting nuts on the left side of the weapon. Until I got the M24 I always mounted my scopes the the nuts on the right side of the rifle, had been doing that for maybe 15 years. Some guys like SFC Gooch remounted his rings so the nuts were on the right. Trijicon followed suit with the ACOGs mounting their nuts on the left side until just recently when the TA31RCO ACOGs were adopted. A repair message went out to the military public stating that if you had a TA31RCO with the nuts on the left side they should be removed and changed to the right side and they provided instructions on how to do so. Why, I have no idea.
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Just so no one gets confused with the different front sight bases. The later version using the RPA / OK Weber configuration, the base has the detent on the left side.
Mine as supplied from Remington:
Mine as supplied from Remington:
You want the best?
Springer 03A3 with Unertl or No.4(T) Long Branch with Weaver Alaskan scope!
Well I guess my qualifier for best sniper rifle is the romantics surrounding these rifles rather than the actual performance!
M24s are sweet, a lot of history behind their successful career as well, but I wish the Army went with a McMillan marksman stock for the M24(keep everything else the same) rather than the HS, that would have been a helluva sweet rig! Have a removable butt or folding butt system to keep the Airborne length shorter. EODSix mentions "Gooch" in an earlier post, Gooch sings the praises of the HS stocks and M24 on other forums and I would definatly loose debate with him based on his service and experiance and knowledge training snipers and using both the M40a1 and the M24 in service! But still personal pref I wish the Army went with the McMillan stock for the M24.
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Trying to clarify a few things - perhaps someone can answer these for me...
1. OPS Inc cans were used on Army M-24s, correct?
2. Which M-24 models were setup for this can? M24A2/3?
3. Are they still using OPS Inc cans on current issue M-24s as we speak?
1. OPS Inc cans were used on Army M-24s, correct?
2. Which M-24 models were setup for this can? M24A2/3?
3. Are they still using OPS Inc cans on current issue M-24s as we speak?
I have seen pictures of the OPS Inc barrel mod done on standard M24s and A2s, the can in use one A2, no A3 version of the M24 fielded to my knowledge.
M24E1s(M2010) now use an AAC can.
M24E1s(M2010) now use an AAC can.
There were M24s and M24A2s that were using the Ops Inc. 3rd Model suppressors in Afghanistan. As for current issue M24s, that's a thing of the past. There shouldn't be any M24s in the field with the Army any more. The XM2010/M24E1 fielding is complete now and they were modified M24s that were returned to Remington for retrofit. If there are any M24s remaining in the field, they weren't turned in as required. The M24E1 uses the AAC Titan suppressor.
Flash Hider
Hey guys,
I tried my hand at making a flash hider this weekend. The dimensions were derived from reverse engineering photos I found on the web. Unfortunately I don't have an M24 to try it on. If I could get some help getting the dimensions nailed down, I'd be interested in making these available to those in need for their builds.
Hey guys,
I tried my hand at making a flash hider this weekend. The dimensions were derived from reverse engineering photos I found on the web. Unfortunately I don't have an M24 to try it on. If I could get some help getting the dimensions nailed down, I'd be interested in making these available to those in need for their builds.
Attachments
If I was stateside/home I'd either measure mine up for you and take a ton of detailed pictures or just loan it out so you'd have a real one to work from.
This is also a project that's been on my back burner for quite some time. Lack of time stateside really put the brakes on this project as all I wanted to do was offer an accurate repro FH, leave it in the white and it would allow the end user to finish. This would make it so I wouldn't have to charge an outrageous amount (me making no profit) and pass on the savings. I've approached a few guys at home that either have their own machine shop or have the ability to make them but it hasn't come along as quick as I'd liked. I know there's plenty of guys wanting a FH (15-20) to complete a build or accompany their M24R that came from Remington but it's a matter of making an accurate reproduction keeping it as close to original as possible. It's an item "have" for most of us, just not use.......
To cover my bases I'm posting this question here and in the M24R thread too. Here's a picture of my optics case as it stands, I've collected all the pieces parts to complete the kit but I'm left wondering what originally was in the empty spot in the lower left of the case?
Both of your upper foam pads are mounted sideways. Rotate them 90 degrees so the notches are parallel, not horizontal.
Don't know what's supposed to fit inside that lower cutaway section. All the manuals show it filled with a piece of foam, and the outline where it's been pre-cut is clearly visible.
Leupold makes a specialty tool called a Zero Point Magnetic Illuminated Boresighter Part #59012. Looking at pictures, it seems like a possibility?
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Interesting. I never paid any attention as that's how it came from Remington with my M24R.
That is incredible, Spearo! Can only imagine how much machine time you invested. More than willing to lend some help. Let me know.
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Gotta be one of the most minor details ever discussed in this entire thread!
And if WLSV, NY is Billysville, we're neighbors.
OPTICS CASE
1) I've seen some in GRAY and others in BLACK. Do the colors imply issue dates etc. ?
2) What are the dimensions of the case ?
1) I've seen some in GRAY and others in BLACK. Do the colors imply issue dates etc. ?
2) What are the dimensions of the case ?
Have not seen a gray colored case before. Its called a blow-molded container, might be date stamped in the form of a circle with an arrow pointing to the month it was built and the last 2 digits of the year inside it.
I don't have any opportunity to handle a "real" case or to look at the mfg. code stamp. All I have to go on is pictures not having a lot of detail.
This one seems GRAY...unless it is just a bad picture.
I'm trying to find a cheap blow-molded tool box that will "fit into the hole" in the coffin case and look "kind of like it belongs" until I can "obtain" a real optics case.
I've come across these:
https://www.flambeaucases.com/index.php/site/details/50042
Size is 15 5/8" x 4 15/16" x 4 11/16" (39.69 x 12.54 x 11.91 cm)
Anybody care to post their reloading data?
I use the Highpower/CMP match recipe: 168 SMK moly-coated, 40gr IMR-4895 to fire-form, 41~42gr IMR-4895 afterwards, F210M primers. Bullets seated to touch, not jamb, the lands. Uniform FH & primer pockets. Trim/chamfer/debur on a Gracey. Size/seat using Forster Full Length Benchrest dies (these suck, sent them back for polishing after sticking a case).
Found a shitload of 1X fired 1972 L.C. MATCH brass I've been hoarding the past few decades. Mike Lau wrote that year was used making "Quantico Mexican Match" pull-down reloads for the USMC. So good enough for government work, good enough for me.
Muzzle velocity is within 30/fps mean average, no stringing or flyers, just the usual variation for temp/humidity. This load tracks the 173gr M118 NATO dial on the Leupold M3A to around 600M. Past that distance, its Kentucky windage after they go subsonic. I wont increase the powder charge to prevent throat erosion.
I use the Highpower/CMP match recipe: 168 SMK moly-coated, 40gr IMR-4895 to fire-form, 41~42gr IMR-4895 afterwards, F210M primers. Bullets seated to touch, not jamb, the lands. Uniform FH & primer pockets. Trim/chamfer/debur on a Gracey. Size/seat using Forster Full Length Benchrest dies (these suck, sent them back for polishing after sticking a case).
Found a shitload of 1X fired 1972 L.C. MATCH brass I've been hoarding the past few decades. Mike Lau wrote that year was used making "Quantico Mexican Match" pull-down reloads for the USMC. So good enough for government work, good enough for me.
Muzzle velocity is within 30/fps mean average, no stringing or flyers, just the usual variation for temp/humidity. This load tracks the 173gr M118 NATO dial on the Leupold M3A to around 600M. Past that distance, its Kentucky windage after they go subsonic. I wont increase the powder charge to prevent throat erosion.
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Its a shame the Army didn't go with the AICS stock for the new issue rifles. I'm not saying the tube handguard chassis don't work but I can barely get myself to like any chassis, and if its going to be one better it be a flat bottom forend like the AI stuff or other domestic venders(Or AI with viper skins or something). The HS stocks made for remington actions are almost too round in the forend for me even though techincaly a flat-bottom oval. The HS Winchester varmint(original FN police) stock is preffered as its a bit flatter. I know the PST011/012/024 etc are roughly based on some of the fatter 40Xb styles going back decades but even the 40xb can come with a flatter bottom beavertail like the rangemaster varmint.
Sorry for the rant I just hate bolt-guns with AR style forrends, Serious pet-peeve of mine!
BTW re-read above post that you said Match, at first I automatically thought it was SB, sounds like a wicked deal!
Sorry for the rant I just hate bolt-guns with AR style forrends, Serious pet-peeve of mine!
BTW re-read above post that you said Match, at first I automatically thought it was SB, sounds like a wicked deal!
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Tom Beckstrand covered this in an article written for Shooting Times about the origin of the M24. The primary consideration back then was eliminating a bulky and tactically confining stock. Initially, the Army tried to remove as many shooting variables as possible, beginning with a rifle that would be fired almost exclusively from the prone position. The "student rifle" -vs- "sniper rifle". Army decided to pursue a stock based on the operational environment tailored towards Air-Land Battle 2000 doctrine, and replaced the McMillan prone stock with a McMillan field stock (similar to their current M40A-1 HTG). After trials, they realized bedded stocks were not durable enough for extended periods of time, and opted for the H-S Precision aluminum bedded stock, maintained only by the man in the field shooting it. There are no USMC MOS 2112 armorers waiting to rebuild an M24 back at the FOB, it had to be shipped to Remington Arms in New York.
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Well it wasn't for lack of the product being available. I have an AI M24 2.0 stock and it's a special, single purpose stock unlike any other stock from AI. I posted about it here a while back. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-aw-ae-aics-mag-diffrences-5.html#post2161428 Post #224 on that thread. It is a side folder and it uses short action, double stack magazines, not like the short action single stack mags that the M24A2 uses. Yes short action mags both 5 and 10rd. The peculiarity in this stock is that it is a drop in for the 7.62mm M24 specifically. That means the stock is a long action stock that uses the short action magazines. All that needs to be done is to remove the ADL style internal box mag and then screw it on the receiver. The architecture of the stock though is more straight line, with little drop in the comb of the stock. For me that means that in order to use the stock, different rings, higher rings need to be used on the scope or the MARS Rail with high rings. You simply can't use the M3A scope with the issue rings, you can't get your face down low enough to see through the scope because the cheek bones get in the way with the stock riser.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...racy-international-m24-chassis-fde-2-0-a.html
Here is one that was posted last year.
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I don't have any opportunity to handle a "real" case or to look at the mfg. code stamp. All I have to go on is pictures not having a lot of detail.
I've come across these:
https://www.flambeaucases.com/index.php/site/details/50042
View attachment 41880
Size is 15 5/8" x 4 15/16" x 4 11/16" (39.69 x 12.54 x 11.91 cm)
Well that's almost the optics case alright minus the foam inserts. Its a little too short if those measurements are correct though, 18x6x4 approx. That's an interesting find. Yes there were grey cases for the early issued rifles. They had rudimentary blow molded latches which were a weak point and broke off. The later weapons and replacement cases were black just like this one. Note the latches. The issue scope cases also have straps that are riveted to the bottom that this one here doesn't come with. The straps wrap around the case and over the latches to ensure the case doesn't open by accident. The grey and black cases have different strap buckles as well.
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The current M118LR uses Reloader 15 by Alliant. I load 43.6gr on top of Federal 210M primers in Lake City LR or Federal GMM brass. Necks turned, flash holes uniformed. 175gr SMK bullets, weighed and lotted by the tenth of a grain. Yield is between 2580 and 2600 FPS which is what M118LR generally clocks at.
Mk316 Mod 0 uses IMR 4064. They are just a little hotter than M118LR and a little more consistent at 2600 FPS. Documents say that Mk316 uses 41.75gr of 4064 to produce 2640 fps +/- 20 but my clocking of Mk316 averaged 2604 and when I loaded the same weight powder, my average was 2571 so I need to increase the powder weight and try again.
There are no manufacturer stamps on the optics case that I recall seeing, even had the foam out of the bottom and no markings there either, That tool box from Flambeau would certainly fit the spot in the Hardigg case and its made by the same people just a different size.
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Here' the next size up.
https://www.flambeaucases.com/index.php/site/details/50043
A little TOO big (18 1/4" x 7 1/2" x 5 3/4"), but closer to the 18x6x4 approx. mentioned by EODSIX.
I figure I might be able to find the foam in sheet-form pretty easily.
If I ask REAL nice, I might be able to get someone to Xerox their foam and provide a 1:1 image file that I can take and turn into a drawing for the cutout.
Of course, I'd post that drawing back here for everyone's reference.
I was thinking that if I got the smaller case, I could temporarily shim the coffin slot with some of the foam for now. Later, when I find a real optics case, I'd pull the foam shim out and have not damaged/altered the coffin.
Not an IDEAL situation or an AUTHENTIC reproduction...but a workable alternative in the short run.
https://www.flambeaucases.com/index.php/site/details/50043
A little TOO big (18 1/4" x 7 1/2" x 5 3/4"), but closer to the 18x6x4 approx. mentioned by EODSIX.
I figure I might be able to find the foam in sheet-form pretty easily.
If I ask REAL nice, I might be able to get someone to Xerox their foam and provide a 1:1 image file that I can take and turn into a drawing for the cutout.
Of course, I'd post that drawing back here for everyone's reference.
I was thinking that if I got the smaller case, I could temporarily shim the coffin slot with some of the foam for now. Later, when I find a real optics case, I'd pull the foam shim out and have not damaged/altered the coffin.
Not an IDEAL situation or an AUTHENTIC reproduction...but a workable alternative in the short run.
Here's an interesting read (.PPT) on the background of the MK 316 MOD 0 (and MK 248 MOD 1, MK 318 MOD 0)
View attachment tuesdaysessioniii8524[1].pdf
View attachment tuesdaysessioniii8524[1].pdf
Have you ever tried AA4064? LGS doesn't sell it, wonder if it's any good?
I uniform primer pocket seating depth and keep the FH to spec. Have you ever noticed any variation with and w/o opening them up?
And I no longer turn case necks since getting out of Benchrest competition. Used to shoot 22PPC in Light Varmint class using SAKO cases that cost about $5 each, and turning the neck diameter was the order of the day. Shooting the M24 has so far shown no appreciable benefits, given that it's chamber dimensions are on the loose side of SAAMI specs.
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But where do you find sand to fill it with over there?
The "US" stamp is only engraved on military issued rifles, including foreign contract sales. Remington excludes it on police and civilian models. It is a requirement under Federal Standards: MIL-STD-130 Identification Marking of US Military Property
When Remington manufactures M40-XB and M40-XBBR Rangemaster rifles, they stamp the individual rollmarks before sending them over to the Custom Shop. This is because the stamping process "warps" internal dimensions. Custom Shop then blueprints the receivers to match specs. Regular 700's are not machined to such exact tolerances.
I live about a mile down the road from one of AI owners, Tom Irwin. Have yet to meet him personally, but friends have been invited
over to visit him.
There is grey cases. I wonder when they switched to black... Maybe at the same time the MK4 was issued?
They have been issued both ways.... Dont know why, but it doesnt really matter!
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There is grey cases. I wonder when they switched to black... Maybe at the same time the MK4 was issued?
[pics removed ]
They have been issued both ways.... Dont know why, but it doesnt really matter!
Looks TOO much like the Flambeau case (even the place on the top Lower Right where an OEM nameplate would go)...
Wonder if THEY are the supplier ?
I think I'll try calling them.
Would it be possible to give me the exact dimensions of the optics case ?
or is the 18x6x4 as "exact" as it gets ?
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I contacted Eagle Industries regarding the Drag Bag and HSRC (last produced in 2009)
GOOD NEWS: They can manufacture them as an "OEM" order from the original designs if at least 51 pieces (each) are ordered.
BAD NEWS:
GOOD NEWS: They can manufacture them as an "OEM" order from the original designs if at least 51 pieces (each) are ordered.
BAD NEWS:
DRGBG-OD $965.81 each minimum order 51
HSRC-OD $1029.19 each minimum order 51
HSRC-OD $1029.19 each minimum order 51
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Flambeau 50042 looks like the exact same case to me (except the length as mentioned by eodsix). I bet they are the supplier. If thats true, well, a lot of people paid A LOT for a 14$ plastic case......
There is grey cases. I wonder when they switched to black... Maybe at the same time the MK4 was issued?
They have been issued both ways.... Dont know why, but it doesnt really matter!
It certainly does matter, the government would reject the one not meeting their specifications!
But all the manuals I have show the upper pads positioned like the grey one is. Have to assume the color change from black to grey is not related to anything other than the makers supply. Since I've never seen a gray case before, that's just opinion, not fact. Cool to see you own both. Interesting that the grey case still has foam where the iron sights fit? Have you pulled them apart looking for any date marks? Do you know what the serial #'s are for the rifle each one was issued? That may help dating them.
I'm in for one of each...lol
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