Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

[AzNooB]

So lately I've sort of gotten into a bit more precision shooting. However, I don't have a range longer than 100 yards near me so I have no choice but to be lame and only learn how things work in theory. I also have to use my friend's Remington 700 5R outfitted with a Nightforce NXS F1 3-15x because I don't have my own bolt gun.

Anyway, I watched AOPR yesterday and decided to hit the range again.

Before, I was shooting sub-MOA groups already, using what I learned from my shooting experience as well as some of the Hide's videos. I shot with my hand fully gripping the pistol grip with my thumb riding high near the safety. Here's what I did on the Remington's first and second outing:

With FGMM

With handloads

After I watched AOPR, I tried Todd Hodnett's shooting technique and this is what happened:

The group on the left was with handloads and the group on the right was FGMM

WTF?

 

[Captramrod01]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Looks like you should probably stick with what you were doing before...and where are you in AZ where you only have 100yds??

 

[battlestick]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Maybe watching a video doesn't make you an expert? Can't do everything the very first time you try, it usually takes practice, and in this game, and insane amount of it. At least for me anyways.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Trying something one time does not really mean that you will get it right off the bat!! I haven't seen the video but the way you grip the stock is pretty important to shooting consistently, I am sure he is only trying to reduce movement while pressing the trigger?

There are several ways of doing that? It seems that you have a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals (at least at 100yds), you are consistent with both factory and reloads.

If you are getting pretty consistent results in your grouping then it is time to move to something else more complicated?

 

[fish2keel]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Aznoob, Mind telling us exactly what you changed in your technique? I havent seen the video yet so im curious what was changed that caused those results

Thanks

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

I have not watched the video yet (be here on Friday), but I'm guessing you tried only doing a "half grip" with your finger tips hitting the bottom centerline of the grip with your thumb riding lower on the side?

I don't know if this is what your talking about, but it's the way I was "instructed" to shoot versus wrapping your entire hand around/in the pistol grip. This is much more apparent/beneficial on AICS/A5's/T5's......stocks with a defined vertical grip.

After getting used to it, I don't shoot any other way. It makes cycling the bolt and getting back on the trigger alot faster with less movment.

 

[poison123]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

lol and so it begins with that video...........

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Yeah, I mean I'm not trying to be negative, but it's silly to think you can just watch the video and then go apply the concepts just as they do with no practice and expect to see improved results. You didn't achieve the shooting skill you have now from just watching a video, so why would you expect any different with this? I'm excited to see the video, but not because I feel like it's going to improve my groups. I'm sure there are some useful concepts in the video, but it's still just a video, nothing more.

 

[AzNooB]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

In AOPR, they tell you that it's far better to fit the rifle to you instead of trying to force yourself to fit the rifle. So what I did was stuff some material underneath the stock pack in order to raise the comb height of the 5R. This allowed me to stay relaxed behind the rifle. Before, I was stretching my neck in order to get a good sight picture because my friend's rifle isn't set up for me.

Hodnett also teaches you to make minimal contact with the rifle, and only to lightly load it. He curls his fingers so that his fingertips barely touch the front strap, and places his thumb high on the pistol grip. All he essentially does is squeeze his thumb and trigger finger together to pull the trigger. What I did was grip the entire pistol grip like you would on a handgun and pull the stock back tightly to my shoulder and at the same time put my weight forward to load the bipod.

Basically, Hodnett says you should be falling asleep behind your rifle. I, on the other hand, have been putting as much of my body weight on it as I could to create tension for stability.

The only thing I did in common with Hodnett in the past was my breathing cycle. Breath naturally and after a full exhale, squeeze the trigger.

My method induces a lot more muscle strain, and in theory should be less efficient. Everything Hodnett says makes perfect sense if you think about it; I just can't make it work.

 

[poison123]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I mean I'm not trying to be negative, but it's silly to think you can just watch the video and then go apply the concepts just as they do with no practice and expect to see improved results. You didn't achieve the shooting skill you have now from just watching a video, so why would you expect any different with this? I'm excited to see the video, but not because I feel like it's going to improve my groups. I'm sure there are some useful concepts in the video, but it's still just a video, nothing more. </div></div>

Prepare to be brainwashed into buying a OBR with a Horus reticle.

 

[Pat M]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Everybody has different grips, finger length, maybe your thumb is too long and puts pressure on a different finger tendon - just like stocks (some people love the AI - some hate it)

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I mean I'm not trying to be negative, but it's silly to think you can just watch the video and then go apply the concepts just as they do with no practice and expect to see improved results. You didn't achieve the shooting skill you have now from just watching a video, so why would you expect any different with this? I'm excited to see the video, but not because I feel like it's going to improve my groups. I'm sure there are some useful concepts in the video, but it's still just a video, nothing more. </div></div>

Prepare to be brainwashed into buying a OBR with a Horus reticle.</div></div>

I "want" a precision gas gun, but in my heart I know it'd get little use so I'll stick with my ole bolts.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

You have to find what works for you, without creating bad habits to the fundementals of shooting.

Videos, books, internet cant do that for you

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

The question I would ask is whether or not you believe that two 5-shot groups to compare the two different grips, which were done on different days, really provide statistically significant feedback as to whether one grip is superior to the other? I can appreciate that the trend you saw seems to hold with two different types of ammo, but I tend to believe that your results could have easily been other factors such as atmospheric conditions on different days, that you're simply not "comfortable" with the new (different) grip yet, or even the phase of the moon on a specific day. It's just very hard to say anything statistically meaningful from such a small sample group.

If you really want to try use the new grip, my suggestion would be to work with it a bit more to familiarize yourself better, then try several (at least three) 5-shot or even 10-shot groups using your handloads. Then do the same thing that same day with your original grip, and see how the <span style="font-style: italic">average spreads</span> of the groups compare using the two different techniques. One possibility is that you might eventually become better over the long run using the new grip, but only after you've had time to work with it. Alternatively, it may never work better for you than your original form. But that is a question that will be very difficult if not impossible to answer one way or another without using a sample size that can give you statistically meaningful feedback.

You can easily carry out those types of analyses, but it's a fair amount of work and will burn up a lot of ammo. So you'll have to decide whether it's worth it. Personally, I'd probably just say I'm more comfortable with my original grip and call it a day. There's nothing to prove that the Magpul video way is the only way, or even necessarily the best way, for everyone.

 

[VKC]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

doesn't seem to be working for you.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captramrod01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you should probably stick with what you were doing before...and where are you in AZ where you only have 100yds?? </div></div>

I'm curious as well?

I can think of 4 ranges in the Phoenix area alone that offer distance beyond 100yds. There is also state land within 30 minutes of wherever you are in the state.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

Thats Hot!!!!!

 

[AzNooB]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captramrod01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you should probably stick with what you were doing before...and where are you in AZ where you only have 100yds?? </div></div>

I'm curious as well?

I can think of 4 ranges in the Phoenix area alone that offer distance beyond 100yds. There is also state land within 30 minutes of wherever you are in the state.</div></div>

I'm not in AZ. My name is AzNoob as in Asian Noob.

 

[cpt.creedmoor]

Re: Art of the Precision Rifle: Before and After

fill out your profile(where you is) and somebody might be close to you and offer help.....