Ok guys which do you run out of your 50 BMG's? I was planning to just run the 750 AMAX but have found the Barnes 750g and 800g bore riders as well. Also does anyone have doppler data on the Barnes bullets? The published BC seems a little high to me.
Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
- Thread starter Cmonroe
- Start date
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
The BC (G1) of the Barnes 800 gr. is around 1.05. There are similar bullets available from several other mfg's:
Lehigh Bullets
Ten X Bullets
AAA Arms & Ammo
Most 50's will shoot the AMAX pretty well, the solids hold all the records, but it can be a little more tricky to get a load/solid bullet to work in every rifle.
The BC (G1) of the Barnes 800 gr. is around 1.05. There are similar bullets available from several other mfg's:
Lehigh Bullets
Ten X Bullets
AAA Arms & Ammo
Most 50's will shoot the AMAX pretty well, the solids hold all the records, but it can be a little more tricky to get a load/solid bullet to work in every rifle.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
I shot the Barnes solids for a while. They shot very well from my Lilja barrel.
When I ran out of those I switched to Harlow solids.
I played with the AMAX, but stuck with the solids.
I shot the Barnes solids for a while. They shot very well from my Lilja barrel.
When I ran out of those I switched to Harlow solids.
I played with the AMAX, but stuck with the solids.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
i have pretty much shot every type of solid bullet out there in my 50. I do not have a bore rider throat in my chamber. i have not had good results with any type of bore rider design. i have contacted expert 50 cal gun smith randy dierks and also consulted with him, but still no luck. Barnes does make a solid that is not a bore rider. I had good results with this bullet. I think its called the TAC. LR. I am currenlty shooting AMAX bullets because they shoot out of my gun i get .5 or better all the time to 600 yards. And the one time i had a chance to shoot at 1000 i held around 7" which it great!!!At the 50 cal world champion ships the AMAX bullets did well. I will tell you that the solid seems to be more accurate if you have a gun that is set up to shoot them properly. The problem with AMAX bullets is quality control. If you sort the AMAX bullet you should get plenty of acccuracy out of them. I am currently having HOOKER tactical make me up some of their solids, because i think my gun does not like bullets with drive bands. My gun has a lilja barrel. Now to confuse you more some guys are getting bore riders to work in standard throats. i can go into much more detail if you want PM me. Although i cant get any type of solid to give me good accuracy even out of my 338 lapua. i like shooting tiny groups and solid have not produced for me yet!!
i have pretty much shot every type of solid bullet out there in my 50. I do not have a bore rider throat in my chamber. i have not had good results with any type of bore rider design. i have contacted expert 50 cal gun smith randy dierks and also consulted with him, but still no luck. Barnes does make a solid that is not a bore rider. I had good results with this bullet. I think its called the TAC. LR. I am currenlty shooting AMAX bullets because they shoot out of my gun i get .5 or better all the time to 600 yards. And the one time i had a chance to shoot at 1000 i held around 7" which it great!!!At the 50 cal world champion ships the AMAX bullets did well. I will tell you that the solid seems to be more accurate if you have a gun that is set up to shoot them properly. The problem with AMAX bullets is quality control. If you sort the AMAX bullet you should get plenty of acccuracy out of them. I am currently having HOOKER tactical make me up some of their solids, because i think my gun does not like bullets with drive bands. My gun has a lilja barrel. Now to confuse you more some guys are getting bore riders to work in standard throats. i can go into much more detail if you want PM me. Although i cant get any type of solid to give me good accuracy even out of my 338 lapua. i like shooting tiny groups and solid have not produced for me yet!!
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
I have a Barnes 800 gr. solid bore rider right here. The front bore rider band measures .502" in diameter and is appox .350" wide. The rear groove diameter band is .510" in diameter and appox. .175 wide. Between the two bands, the bullet is under cut, the diameter of measures .489" and is appox .420" wide. The OAL of the bullet is 2.800".
Bore riders require a special throat with a very short lead to support the front bore rider section. Typical 50 BMG throats are very long, and will not support the bullet at all. That explains the lack of accuracy if the rifle isnt chambered accordingly. All production rifles have the long military throats. Only custom rifles have the special bore rider chambers.
The turned solids are VLD design and very long. They work better in single shots rather than trying to get them to work at a magazine length. The Hornady 750 gr A-Max is a very popular and accurate bullet with long range target shooters.
I have a Barnes 800 gr. solid bore rider right here. The front bore rider band measures .502" in diameter and is appox .350" wide. The rear groove diameter band is .510" in diameter and appox. .175 wide. Between the two bands, the bullet is under cut, the diameter of measures .489" and is appox .420" wide. The OAL of the bullet is 2.800".
Bore riders require a special throat with a very short lead to support the front bore rider section. Typical 50 BMG throats are very long, and will not support the bullet at all. That explains the lack of accuracy if the rifle isnt chambered accordingly. All production rifles have the long military throats. Only custom rifles have the special bore rider chambers.
The turned solids are VLD design and very long. They work better in single shots rather than trying to get them to work at a magazine length. The Hornady 750 gr A-Max is a very popular and accurate bullet with long range target shooters.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
Tom its the other way around, you can shoot a borerider in a standard throat but usually can't shoot a standard bullet in a bor rider throat until you erode the throat back usually 300 or so rounds. I shoot 10x bullets out of my windrunner all the time and they shoot fine.
Tom its the other way around, you can shoot a borerider in a standard throat but usually can't shoot a standard bullet in a bor rider throat until you erode the throat back usually 300 or so rounds. I shoot 10x bullets out of my windrunner all the time and they shoot fine.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tom its the other way around, you can shoot a borerider in a standard throat but usually can't shoot a standard bullet in a bor rider throat until you erode the throat back usually 300 or so rounds. I shoot 10x bullets out of my windrunner all the time and they shoot fine. </div></div>
Actually, the Bore-Rider throat (as designed for the AAA and Barnes offerings) can be used for other bullets just fine, it just doesn't shoot quite as well as using the bore-riders themselves. The step in the lands extends a LONG ways in front of the actual throat, providing a pseudo freebore effect for normal bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tom its the other way around, you can shoot a borerider in a standard throat but usually can't shoot a standard bullet in a bor rider throat until you erode the throat back usually 300 or so rounds. I shoot 10x bullets out of my windrunner all the time and they shoot fine. </div></div>
Actually, the Bore-Rider throat (as designed for the AAA and Barnes offerings) can be used for other bullets just fine, it just doesn't shoot quite as well as using the bore-riders themselves. The step in the lands extends a LONG ways in front of the actual throat, providing a pseudo freebore effect for normal bullets.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
Hey CM:
First-- since nobody has asked and I know what rifle you have I will say this----Do not even waste your money on trying to work up a load of solids for your AR50. The AMAX is going to give you the best results of those 2 projectile types.
Second-- you are going to also want to find yourself a batch "cheapo" ball ammo for those shorter distances/occasions.
Third-- "lrs50bmg" is the guy I go to for any and all 50cal questions.
Fourth-- you know we can sit and debate solids vs jacketed projos until this board reaches 1million members and no minds and/or train of thoughts will be changed lol. Each type have their pros and cons. Each type are normally thought about in complete different way such as "solids" are thought about BEFORE rifle is built and rifle is built to match that solid whether it be chamber or barrel specs, "jacketed" are thought about AFTER rifle is purchased because they are easier to get the "average" rifle to shoot them well enough for the trigger puller to be happy.
Thanks
Hey CM:
First-- since nobody has asked and I know what rifle you have I will say this----Do not even waste your money on trying to work up a load of solids for your AR50. The AMAX is going to give you the best results of those 2 projectile types.
Second-- you are going to also want to find yourself a batch "cheapo" ball ammo for those shorter distances/occasions.
Third-- "lrs50bmg" is the guy I go to for any and all 50cal questions.
Fourth-- you know we can sit and debate solids vs jacketed projos until this board reaches 1million members and no minds and/or train of thoughts will be changed lol. Each type have their pros and cons. Each type are normally thought about in complete different way such as "solids" are thought about BEFORE rifle is built and rifle is built to match that solid whether it be chamber or barrel specs, "jacketed" are thought about AFTER rifle is purchased because they are easier to get the "average" rifle to shoot them well enough for the trigger puller to be happy.
Thanks
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
not unless your bore-rider reamer has a long lead usually they don't. The step in the lands your talking about is .5025 in a bore-rider chamber. I guess you could chamber a regular style bullet but it yould have to be seated way back into the case.
Fifty barrels that are not burned out have a .500" bore diameter and a .510 groove diameter. Once a fifty barrel has been fired for a few hundred rounds or so it will have a bore diameter at the chamber end of .502", or more, as the lands burn down. because of this it is necessary to make the bore-rider part of the bullet oversize, so it won't be loose in worn barrels. The only difference between a bore-rider barrel and a standard barrel is that the bore-rider barrel has a second throat cut ahead of the regular throat, usually .5025" diameter as a relief so that the slightly oversize bore-rider bullet will chamber in the gun. It should be noted that if your barrel has several hundred rounds through it already, it is possible that a bore-rider bullet will chamber fine without the special throat.
The lead angles for bore-rider throats are usually the same as for standard throats, although, it is not unusual for non-standard lead angles to be used in either.
not unless your bore-rider reamer has a long lead usually they don't. The step in the lands your talking about is .5025 in a bore-rider chamber. I guess you could chamber a regular style bullet but it yould have to be seated way back into the case.
Fifty barrels that are not burned out have a .500" bore diameter and a .510 groove diameter. Once a fifty barrel has been fired for a few hundred rounds or so it will have a bore diameter at the chamber end of .502", or more, as the lands burn down. because of this it is necessary to make the bore-rider part of the bullet oversize, so it won't be loose in worn barrels. The only difference between a bore-rider barrel and a standard barrel is that the bore-rider barrel has a second throat cut ahead of the regular throat, usually .5025" diameter as a relief so that the slightly oversize bore-rider bullet will chamber in the gun. It should be noted that if your barrel has several hundred rounds through it already, it is possible that a bore-rider bullet will chamber fine without the special throat.
The lead angles for bore-rider throats are usually the same as for standard throats, although, it is not unusual for non-standard lead angles to be used in either.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
i know this if your gun is set up to shoot standard bullets shoot amax bullets, trust me!! I have spent a year trying to get them to shoot and just tried today again with terible results, but then i shoot a .25 group with amax and 2.6 at 612 yards. sort the amax bullets until the barrel is shot out then have it rebarreled with a bore rider throat. I keep hearing all these stories about how accurate solid are but i can't get them to shoot out of any gun period. why are all the benchrest shooters still shooting jacketed bullets? i spoke to randy and he told me that the reason bore riders were developed was due to the 50 case having so many variances that cant be controlled like in smaller calibers. The bore rider actually can from artillery.the concept was just brought over to the 50 case due to it having the same issues as large brass artillery cases. I have yet to see anyone with a rifle other than a 50 produce a tiny group, but i hear all these stories about how accurate they are. i know my 338 lapua will shoot in the .1's at 100 yards during testing can someone show me a group of .1 with a solid? I have just about given up on solids!!
i know this if your gun is set up to shoot standard bullets shoot amax bullets, trust me!! I have spent a year trying to get them to shoot and just tried today again with terible results, but then i shoot a .25 group with amax and 2.6 at 612 yards. sort the amax bullets until the barrel is shot out then have it rebarreled with a bore rider throat. I keep hearing all these stories about how accurate solid are but i can't get them to shoot out of any gun period. why are all the benchrest shooters still shooting jacketed bullets? i spoke to randy and he told me that the reason bore riders were developed was due to the 50 case having so many variances that cant be controlled like in smaller calibers. The bore rider actually can from artillery.the concept was just brought over to the 50 case due to it having the same issues as large brass artillery cases. I have yet to see anyone with a rifle other than a 50 produce a tiny group, but i hear all these stories about how accurate they are. i know my 338 lapua will shoot in the .1's at 100 yards during testing can someone show me a group of .1 with a solid? I have just about given up on solids!!
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
/\ agreed. The more powder I dump in the case, the tighter the group seems to be getting.
Case variances are a big problem. Stenger, do you only neck size or full length resize?
/\ agreed. The more powder I dump in the case, the tighter the group seems to be getting.
Case variances are a big problem. Stenger, do you only neck size or full length resize?
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
Dan,
I have always found that my .50's shoot better and more consistent with full length sized brass. I like to take the firing pin out of the bolt, and run the sizing die down until the bolt will fall closed on the sized case without any pressure. I just keep turning the die down in ~ 1/8th turn increments until I get there. I also find it helps to anneal the case neck & shoulder. This permits much more consistency in the brass sizing operation. Also make sure to check case length, as they all tend to "grow." If your die does not permit sizing far enough, you may need to have the shell holder or the base of the die ground down some. Mike Matter (M2 Precision) makes an excellent FL die that he will custom make based off of 3 of your fired cases, but it is not cheap. Hope this helps.
Dan,
I have always found that my .50's shoot better and more consistent with full length sized brass. I like to take the firing pin out of the bolt, and run the sizing die down until the bolt will fall closed on the sized case without any pressure. I just keep turning the die down in ~ 1/8th turn increments until I get there. I also find it helps to anneal the case neck & shoulder. This permits much more consistency in the brass sizing operation. Also make sure to check case length, as they all tend to "grow." If your die does not permit sizing far enough, you may need to have the shell holder or the base of the die ground down some. Mike Matter (M2 Precision) makes an excellent FL die that he will custom make based off of 3 of your fired cases, but it is not cheap. Hope this helps.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
Thanks for your help guys, I've full lenght resized and loaded the AMAX's over the top of 250g of 869 so I'll let you guys know how it works soon.
Thanks for your help guys, I've full lenght resized and loaded the AMAX's over the top of 250g of 869 so I'll let you guys know how it works soon.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
you might want to rethink that load a little. I don't care what the bottle says its a very hot load. That load is fine in my windrunner but way over in a ar50 armalite I used at a match for a loaner gun(thanks armalite) as my went down. My a-max rounds are loaded at 5.75OAL.
you might want to rethink that load a little. I don't care what the bottle says its a very hot load. That load is fine in my windrunner but way over in a ar50 armalite I used at a match for a loaner gun(thanks armalite) as my went down. My a-max rounds are loaded at 5.75OAL.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrs50bmg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan,
I have always found that my .50's shoot better and more consistent with full length sized brass. I like to take the firing pin out of the bolt, and run the sizing die down until the bolt will fall closed on the sized case without any pressure. I just keep turning the die down in ~ 1/8th turn increments until I get there. I also find it helps to anneal the case neck & shoulder. This permits much more consistency in the brass sizing operation. Also make sure to check case length, as they all tend to "grow." If your die does not permit sizing far enough, you may need to have the shell holder or the base of the die ground down some. Mike Matter (M2 Precision) makes an excellent FL die that he will custom make based off of 3 of your fired cases, but it is not cheap. Hope this helps.
</div></div>
Thanks for the tip. I've been annealing brass every other firing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lrs50bmg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan,
I have always found that my .50's shoot better and more consistent with full length sized brass. I like to take the firing pin out of the bolt, and run the sizing die down until the bolt will fall closed on the sized case without any pressure. I just keep turning the die down in ~ 1/8th turn increments until I get there. I also find it helps to anneal the case neck & shoulder. This permits much more consistency in the brass sizing operation. Also make sure to check case length, as they all tend to "grow." If your die does not permit sizing far enough, you may need to have the shell holder or the base of the die ground down some. Mike Matter (M2 Precision) makes an excellent FL die that he will custom make based off of 3 of your fired cases, but it is not cheap. Hope this helps.
</div></div>
Thanks for the tip. I've been annealing brass every other firing.
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
trust me i have talked to all the 50 experts my gun just will not shoot solids dont know why just wont!! i full length size when shooting solids to. i have also put my 20 years of reloading experience into trying to make them shoot no luck very frustrating!!!!!
that load is not good, most everyone has great results with H50 bmg and amax might want to try that. dont need to re invent the wheel!
trust me i have talked to all the 50 experts my gun just will not shoot solids dont know why just wont!! i full length size when shooting solids to. i have also put my 20 years of reloading experience into trying to make them shoot no luck very frustrating!!!!!
that load is not good, most everyone has great results with H50 bmg and amax might want to try that. dont need to re invent the wheel!
Re: Barnes 800 solid BR or 750 AMAX?
ive found that the amaxs work better under what some might consider a lite load
my gun shot sub moa @ 1,000 yards using amaxs with 218 of H50 seated @ 5.7"
i never tried seating them any longer than 5.7"
it also just shot 7.125" @ 1,000 yards using lehigh 808's with 228 of H50 seated @ 6.1
the 808's like the hotter loads
and the 808's liked the longer COAL
the trick the the amaxs was the weight and length sorting
ive found that the amaxs work better under what some might consider a lite load
my gun shot sub moa @ 1,000 yards using amaxs with 218 of H50 seated @ 5.7"
i never tried seating them any longer than 5.7"
it also just shot 7.125" @ 1,000 yards using lehigh 808's with 228 of H50 seated @ 6.1
the 808's like the hotter loads
and the 808's liked the longer COAL
the trick the the amaxs was the weight and length sorting
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