Gunsmithing Barrel channel too large
- Thread starter Sidk
- Start date
It can be done and Chad Dixon @ Long Rifles Inc can and will do it for you. Give him a call.
longriflesinc.com
longriflesinc.com
It's been a while since I talked to him but I don't think he is that far out. I would just give him a call or PM him here @ LongRifles, Inc here on the site. Might be surprised at his time window.
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+1 on large free floats. But if you "have" to change it, it's fairly easy to "fix" it yourself, if you're so inclined. Mix some epoxy with the filler/thickener of your choice, & spread it into the channel until it's down to the size you like. Or put some mold release onto your barrel, & set it into the channel after spreading the thickened epoxy mix in, until things cure. Then pull the barrel out & sand until you have the desired amount of free float. From there you can seal & paint or not.
It's a fair bit easier than doing a DIY bedding job, & plenty of guys do that, so... Heck, you can even skip the mold release & just use packing tape or duct tape on the barrel instead.
1.20 channel and a .8 barrel. Sounds like it would look goofy. Anyone got a pic of such a setup? Won't knock till I see it.
I've got a mill and I've done things like inletting before and its turned out well, but they were on lower end stuff and I want this one really nice.
I've got a mill and I've done things like inletting before and its turned out well, but they were on lower end stuff and I want this one really nice.
I am sure Chad is not nine months out on something like this. I know he is a little behind due to getting the new machines in and online. But shoot him an email. I am sure you will be surprised at when he can get to it. Plus the look you get when it is cnc machined os second to none in my opinion.
I'll post pics of mine tonight. I think mine about matches yours - could accomodate ~1.200" cylinder barrel, but I've got a medium palma.
I would wrap the barrel with several even layers of wide masking tape (run them lengthwise?), to build up the OD, then tape on a layer of wax paper. Coat the channel with bedding compound and tighten the barreled action into the stock. The barrel forms a perfect mandrel while the compound sets up, and the wax paper isn't a bad release layer. The float gap will be precisely the thickness of the tape/wax paper layers.
Greg
Greg
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what UNCIVILIZED said with an addition
10mil plumbers tape can be neatly layered on the barrel so that you can leave a gap of say 6 layers = 0.06 per side adn around the bottom.
It's very easy to do, I've fixed several botched stocks by acquaintances that hacked a bigger channel in the stock and it looked terrible.
10mil plumbers tape can be neatly layered on the barrel so that you can leave a gap of say 6 layers = 0.06 per side adn around the bottom.
It's very easy to do, I've fixed several botched stocks by acquaintances that hacked a bigger channel in the stock and it looked terrible.
He would end up getting the rest to assemble and rebarrel as well. Not that I couldn't some of it but I want the paint and all to look right and that I can't do very well. Its a savage so please no flack about sending it to a smith.
As long as he is not waiting on parts it is usually not an issue. Paint and Cerakote are done in house so there is no waiting on a third party. Shoot him an email and see what he says. I know he is getting a new body in the shop April 1 so that should kill some lag time as well.
Thanks, I'm aquiring parts right now. Can you guy's recomend anyone else? I just would like other estimates. I have nothing against Chad at all although I do like what I've seen so far.
Question. This a long action Savage, it was inletted to a CDI metal. If I want to use say a 308 or 243, what mags would I need?
Question. This a long action Savage, it was inletted to a CDI metal. If I want to use say a 308 or 243, what mags would I need?
that's kind of like my current situation- I have a factory sporter barrel in a 5R takeoff stock, trying to decide if I want to drop the coin on a rebarrel now (have an M24 Rock blank staring me in the face now, it's mad that I stuck it in a corner) or shoot out the stock tube first. I'm in the DIY camp for this project though, you can't do anything irreversible here
I'm in the same boat and have decided to just shoot out the factory tube and then rebarrel.
To my knowledge were (I) am one of very, very few shops around capable of rebuilding a stock.
The issue at hand is performing the inletting work after its filled back up. Some guys go the route of "over inletting" the barrel channel intentionally, then wrapping tape around the barrel and casting the barrel channel in bedding compound to fill the gap to a form fitting contour. Peeling the tape back off then rewards you with a mirrored casting that's floated. There's nothing wrong with this procedure. Nothing at all.
I however take a different approach.
I measure the barrel contour and generate a 3 dimensional surface model of it in CAD. Then I manipulate the model so that it's larger on the sides/bottom to create the same thing the tape is doing. From here its set up in the mill, surface machined, and that's it. Were done.
The charge is $100 to do a channel. I'll need it about 2 weeks.
We have recently purchased some new machines and the "birth spasm" of getting them here, setup, etc has put us about 3 weeks behind the power curve. The light in the tunnel is that now were able to accurize a receiver/bolt/barreled action (and ceracoat) in a one week window.
I've got a pile of work on the floor and I'm burning the oil late into the night to get us back on track again.
If you don't find someone else, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Phones have been going bezerk the last few weeks so it may take a little to catch me. I do make the effort to get everyone's phone calls returned.
Thanks and good luck.
C.
The issue at hand is performing the inletting work after its filled back up. Some guys go the route of "over inletting" the barrel channel intentionally, then wrapping tape around the barrel and casting the barrel channel in bedding compound to fill the gap to a form fitting contour. Peeling the tape back off then rewards you with a mirrored casting that's floated. There's nothing wrong with this procedure. Nothing at all.
I however take a different approach.
I measure the barrel contour and generate a 3 dimensional surface model of it in CAD. Then I manipulate the model so that it's larger on the sides/bottom to create the same thing the tape is doing. From here its set up in the mill, surface machined, and that's it. Were done.
The charge is $100 to do a channel. I'll need it about 2 weeks.
We have recently purchased some new machines and the "birth spasm" of getting them here, setup, etc has put us about 3 weeks behind the power curve. The light in the tunnel is that now were able to accurize a receiver/bolt/barreled action (and ceracoat) in a one week window.
I've got a pile of work on the floor and I'm burning the oil late into the night to get us back on track again.
If you don't find someone else, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Phones have been going bezerk the last few weeks so it may take a little to catch me. I do make the effort to get everyone's phone calls returned.
Thanks and good luck.
C.
Thanks Chad. I was just contacted by Jeff over at CDI when I ordered the bottom metal for this build. He stated that it was inletted for a magnum. I'm going 243 so according to Jeff it will have a hole in the rear of the inlet area.
Should I sell this stock, or can you fix this as well Chad?
Should I sell this stock, or can you fix this as well Chad?
Sidk I think what you're meaning is that you have a long action stock (working off the magnum inlet comment). 243 is a short action cartridge. You could use a long action for 243 but if you already have a 243 receiver then you should sell this one and find a SA stock. Do the receiver bolt holes line up with the stock? I assumed you had it installed in the pics but it may have been just resting there
I was under the assumtion that the original owner had it inletted to a small mag CDI metal. Come to find out this morning that is was inletted for a larger caliber. Yes the reciever will bolt up and to my knowledge nothing has been bolted to the stock, iits a virigin other then the inletting. If Chad can fix it then I will probably keep it. Its a really nice stock.
Yup, this is my take as well. Unless you're putting a #3 sporter in it or something, just barrel it up and go. Aesthetics and tactical rifles don't go that well together IMO, especially after a few rifle comps.
Oh I see, I didn't know there were differences beyond as/la fur the dbm, I guess it depends which mag size you need. I learned something new today
Call Chad directly and ask him how he does his stock fitting. If you have the money, you'll likely want to go with him...no cheap ass skim bedding there.
I'll confirm his delivery schedule. Back at the end of January I sent my 700 to him for rebarreling and action tuning, Creakote...from date of sending to back in my hands was under 3 weeks. The only regret was not having the funds to get a custom fit stock...maybe later in the year I'll get that done.
I'll confirm his delivery schedule. Back at the end of January I sent my 700 to him for rebarreling and action tuning, Creakote...from date of sending to back in my hands was under 3 weeks. The only regret was not having the funds to get a custom fit stock...maybe later in the year I'll get that done.
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Sounds like a job for polyester resin and fiberglass. Trim, sand, fill, finish to match. Or just polyester bondo.
Couple hours max and you can always mill it out to fit anything larger.
Couple hours max and you can always mill it out to fit anything larger.
Look for pictures of rifles in Rock Solid Chassis, or an AICS for that matter. Most folks run med Palma barrels on average and no one fills in their chassis....
I can't post pics easy from my phone but if you look at some of my threads/posts you're sure to see barrels with lots of room.
Easier to hose mud out from between barrel and action than close fit stuff...
I can't post pics easy from my phone but if you look at some of my threads/posts you're sure to see barrels with lots of room.
Easier to hose mud out from between barrel and action than close fit stuff...
Polyester is the wrong choice imo for stock work. it shrinks, is weak, and is not very tolerant to the types of chemicals firearms are typically exposed to/cleaned with.
Epoxy is a much better choice from my experience.
As for making this work. When it comes to stock work we are about as fearless as they come. I've been able to build some rather strange/odd combinations and find a way to make it work and resemble a finished piece once completed.
So, with that being said it sounds like you have a McMillan setup for a heavy barreled magnum and your looking to squash a short actioned/light barreled receiver in it.
We can do this no problem. It's just a matter of you wanting it. Our rates aren't overly expensive, nor are they cheap. The labor is what it is and we try to offer the biggest bang for the buck whenever possible.
In your case it would be roughly equivalent to buying a brand new stock from Mcmillan that's been inletted already. What I can assure you is there's no one in this trade inletting/bedding the way we do it. None that I'm aware of anyway. The action is fully CAD modeled and then the stock is surface machined to emulate the footprint the parts will reside in. This gives a uniform/concentric layer of bedding between stock/action.
Does it make the gun shoot any better than a gun bedded by any other competent smith?
No, it doesn't.
Does it look/perform better?
I leave beauty to the beholder looking at it. As far as durability, I offer an unconditional life time warranty on bedding jobs. I've yet to honor it. We've never had a failure to date. They don't chip apart or flake off either. There's reasons why and it is what lead me down this route of cnc inletting the stocks.
We are very loaded up right now with work due to the new machines arriving and being setup. This will be our first full week back to work so we gotta dig out of this hole a bit. I've got barreled actions coming out of my ears right now.
I'd be glad to speak with you, but phones are especially tough to keep up with right now due to this hole I've put myself in. If you can sit on it a bit maybe give me another week to get some momentum on this stuff.
All the best,
Chad
Epoxy is a much better choice from my experience.
As for making this work. When it comes to stock work we are about as fearless as they come. I've been able to build some rather strange/odd combinations and find a way to make it work and resemble a finished piece once completed.
So, with that being said it sounds like you have a McMillan setup for a heavy barreled magnum and your looking to squash a short actioned/light barreled receiver in it.
We can do this no problem. It's just a matter of you wanting it. Our rates aren't overly expensive, nor are they cheap. The labor is what it is and we try to offer the biggest bang for the buck whenever possible.
In your case it would be roughly equivalent to buying a brand new stock from Mcmillan that's been inletted already. What I can assure you is there's no one in this trade inletting/bedding the way we do it. None that I'm aware of anyway. The action is fully CAD modeled and then the stock is surface machined to emulate the footprint the parts will reside in. This gives a uniform/concentric layer of bedding between stock/action.
Does it make the gun shoot any better than a gun bedded by any other competent smith?
No, it doesn't.
Does it look/perform better?
I leave beauty to the beholder looking at it. As far as durability, I offer an unconditional life time warranty on bedding jobs. I've yet to honor it. We've never had a failure to date. They don't chip apart or flake off either. There's reasons why and it is what lead me down this route of cnc inletting the stocks.
We are very loaded up right now with work due to the new machines arriving and being setup. This will be our first full week back to work so we gotta dig out of this hole a bit. I've got barreled actions coming out of my ears right now.
I'd be glad to speak with you, but phones are especially tough to keep up with right now due to this hole I've put myself in. If you can sit on it a bit maybe give me another week to get some momentum on this stuff.
All the best,
Chad
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Personally, I like just under 1/8" of uniform float. It all depends on how comfortable you are at handling epoxy/filler and sanding using appropriate sized dowel rods to perform touch-up work prior to painting. It looks like your float is just under 1/4". Figure out how much you'd like to fill the channel in, then measure thickness of tape you'll wrap barrel with. Mask off top of forearm of stock, where you don't want the epoxy/filler to go. Wrap barrel evenly and accordingly with tape, use kiwi clear shoe polish as release agent and plumber's putty to dam off areas you don't want the epoxy/filler to flow(recoil lug recess & stock's forearm end) and there ya go. Takes 2 hours or less to prep, cure-time, sanding 20minutes, touchup paint 30minutes. Or... use Chad @ Longrifle's and have no worries.
My McMillan A3 was sent back to McMillan with the barreled action, where they did a very nice pillar bedding job back in 2002 that also included a fitted/floated barrel channel. The entire job was a work of art, and I still shoot that rifle to this day.
My take is, a tactical rifle isn't exactly a Mona Lisa so why bother. A larger barrel gap has advantages in better colling and easier to get the mud and pine needles etc out.
The tactical stocks we make only come with one barrel channel option and that is 1.38"...just right .
edi
The tactical stocks we make only come with one barrel channel option and that is 1.38"...just right .
edi
With a sufficiently stiff stock/foreend, my preference is to keep the barrel gap nice and snug:
The picture makes it look just a bit closer than it really is due to the offset of the camera, but hopefully the point is made.
In this case, getting a uniform barrel gap was pretty easy since it was already in the ballpark. I simply laid the barreled action in the stock with the rear action screw not quite tight, placed a strip of sandpaper under the barrel, and started sawing it back and forth (and fore and aft) under the barrel. Obviously, don't do this with a finished barrel or else you'll probably wreck the finish (the back side of the paper gets pretty abrasive from all the debris it collects). The last little bit was done by wrapping some sandpaper around a deep socket of appropriate ID, since I didn't have the correct size dowel.
On stocks with too large of a channel, I wrap the barrel in plumber's tape to generate roughly the desired gap, and then fill it with West System epoxy and their "micro balloon" filler mixed in to create a thick paste. This sands really nicely once it sets. Once upon a time, I decided to do this fill operation using Devcon putty; that did not sand quite so nicely afterwards
The picture makes it look just a bit closer than it really is due to the offset of the camera, but hopefully the point is made.
In this case, getting a uniform barrel gap was pretty easy since it was already in the ballpark. I simply laid the barreled action in the stock with the rear action screw not quite tight, placed a strip of sandpaper under the barrel, and started sawing it back and forth (and fore and aft) under the barrel. Obviously, don't do this with a finished barrel or else you'll probably wreck the finish (the back side of the paper gets pretty abrasive from all the debris it collects). The last little bit was done by wrapping some sandpaper around a deep socket of appropriate ID, since I didn't have the correct size dowel.
On stocks with too large of a channel, I wrap the barrel in plumber's tape to generate roughly the desired gap, and then fill it with West System epoxy and their "micro balloon" filler mixed in to create a thick paste. This sands really nicely once it sets. Once upon a time, I decided to do this fill operation using Devcon putty; that did not sand quite so nicely afterwards
I would leave it large. Not worth the extra money to get it filled, plus you always know its totally free floated.
Here's a compromise. https://www.google.com/search?sourc....0l4.0.0.0.5754...........0.z8IbrbWCjM4&pbx=1
Foamies are a craft product sheet neoprene foam. Available in 2mm, 3mm, and 5mm thicknesses, several colors, with and without peel-n-stick adhesive backing. You can line the barrel channel with this product to fill in some of the gap. I have also used this product successfully to make cheek rests, barrel channel pressure pads, and barrel bedding support just ahead of the recoil lug. The foam may minimize rebound when used in contact with the barrel. With some care/patience it can also be peeled off when needed.
IMHO the only real issue with large gaps (besides esthetics), is the potential for debris to lodge between barrel and stock, affecting barrel harmonics. Smaller gaps discourage this, and neoprene foam may dampen the effect if debris is present.
I think a larger gap enhances barrel cooling. You can do both by simply running a narrow strip of Foamies along the inside of the very upper edge of the channel. It may block the entry of debris without appreciably diminishing airflow.
Greg
Foamies are a craft product sheet neoprene foam. Available in 2mm, 3mm, and 5mm thicknesses, several colors, with and without peel-n-stick adhesive backing. You can line the barrel channel with this product to fill in some of the gap. I have also used this product successfully to make cheek rests, barrel channel pressure pads, and barrel bedding support just ahead of the recoil lug. The foam may minimize rebound when used in contact with the barrel. With some care/patience it can also be peeled off when needed.
IMHO the only real issue with large gaps (besides esthetics), is the potential for debris to lodge between barrel and stock, affecting barrel harmonics. Smaller gaps discourage this, and neoprene foam may dampen the effect if debris is present.
I think a larger gap enhances barrel cooling. You can do both by simply running a narrow strip of Foamies along the inside of the very upper edge of the channel. It may block the entry of debris without appreciably diminishing airflow.
Greg
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Personally, I would have let it be. The extra air in there will keep the barrel temp even all over.
Float too close and you loose air circulation under the rear of the barrel and your POI might change as the bottom of the barrel heats up.
Besides, who wants a dirt spec to cause a bad shot?
Float too close and you loose air circulation under the rear of the barrel and your POI might change as the bottom of the barrel heats up.
Besides, who wants a dirt spec to cause a bad shot?
Well the Bartlein barrel came today. It is a taper to 1.0", which is what he guy said it was, guess what, the channel is to small, its going to have to be opened up. I wonder if the guy I bought the stock from new what he ordered. Anyway, I was going to send the thing to Kevin Rayhill but I understand he bitches about the McMillan stocks. So Chad, if your listening and you're ready, I've got just about all the parts. let me know when the shop is up and running to full speed.
