Gunsmithing Bent action?

[supercorndogs]

I have a Remage set up that I have been having some accuracy troubles with. I have it pretty well nailed down now, and what I thought was a problem with the chassis before. I am pretty sure is in the action now. My methodology. I actually had the same trouble with four different barrels. 22-250, 223 and 6.5 Creed Remage barrels and the stock factory 223 barrel. I tried bedding the base different scope, and different stock. I noticed today, that with the front action screw tight, the back screw would draw the action down in the back. It looked to me like about 2-3 times as far as normal. Based off my observations from two more actions and mini chassis I was messing around with. I also made sure that this action demonstrated the same problem in another chassis and the action from that rifle did not demonstrate the same problem in said chassis. I feel I have this thing ran down pretty well.

Now my question. What do I do? Should I bed the tang? Would it be better to just sell the mini chassis and get it bedded into a regular manners stock? Would it be better to find a different action? This

 

[Badfinger]

I'm really reaching but here goes, but did you distort your action while removing a factory barrel? I would take the action to a tool shop and have them indicate it otherwise you're just guessing. Good luck.

 

[supercorndogs]

I doubt it, referring you back to the original post for the reasons why. Is there a reason it would matter? It seems like it would be a crap shoot truing to indicate the outside of an action.

 

[Badfinger]

Yep, you got it I can't imagine why I made such a ridiculous comment. Oh, and thanks for the dislike nothing says thanks for your help like a poke in the eye.

 

[Wannashootit]

Based on what you believe to be going on, I would expect the bolt body to be binding in the raceway when the action is out of the chassis. Is it?

Only way I know to check this is to place it back in the chassis (padded vise of course), tighten front screw as you were- and place an indicator at TDC at the front of the action- then tighten the rear screw and see if it moves. If it does, it's "rotating" , not bending- and the chassis would need to be skim bedded so as not to stress the action when you torque the action screws. JMO, YMMV.

 

[supercorndogs]

Based on what you believe to be going on, I would expect the bolt body to be binding in the raceway when the action is out of the chassis. Is it?

Only way I know to check this is to place it back in the chassis (padded vise of course), tighten front screw as you were- and place an indicator at TDC at the front of the action- then tighten the rear screw and see if it moves. If it does, it's "rotating" , not bending- and the chassis would need to be skim bedded so as not to stress the action when you torque the action screws. JMO, YMMV.

No, it doesn't bind when in or out of the chassis. The only symptom I see is it forms three little groups about an inch apart. What I was doing was standing it up on the butt stock, with the bolt open, and tightening and loosening the rear screw [with the front screw tight]. I watched where the bolt was in the cocking serration. It moved farther up and down than the others. From the marks where the action rides in the chassis, by the front action screw, it looks like one side has harder contact than the other.[the mark where it rides is more pronounced on one side than the other.] Would this be another indication of twist and not bend?

So I would be using a dial indicator, looking for up and down movement at the front of the action? To see if it is twisting.

 

[dirthead1]

I had a somewhat similar situation with a trued R700 barreled action recently. I put it in a Manners stock with a mini chassis, and the first thing I noticed was that the barrel was not aligned down the barrel channel. It was severely angled to the right hand side, almost (but not quite) touching the stock. It shot two distinct groups, about 1" apart, no matter what ammo was used. I didn't have another stock to put it in, but decided to bed it to the mini chassis. After bedding, it completely eliminated the multiple groups, and now shoots very well. I didn't go deep enough to find out if it was the chassis or the action causing the problem, but bedding it definitely eliminated it.

 

[supercorndogs]

I had a somewhat similar situation with a trued R700 barreled action recently. I put it in a Manners stock with a mini chassis, and the first thing I noticed was that the barrel was not aligned down the barrel channel. It was severely angled to the right hand side, almost (but not quite) touching the stock. It shot two distinct groups, about 1" apart, no matter what ammo was used. I didn't have another stock to put it in, but decided to bed it to the mini chassis. After bedding, it completely eliminated the multiple groups, and now shoots very well. I didn't go deep enough to find out if it was the chassis or the action causing the problem, but bedding it definitely eliminated it.

That just how mine shoots. It is definitely not the chassis on mine. I put my LRI barreled action in it, and it shoots bug holes.

 

[dirthead1]

That just how mine shoots. It is definitely not the chassis on mine. I put my LRI barreled action in it, and it shoots bug holes.

My barreled action is an LRI as well. So I don't know if my problem was the chassis or the Remington action just being a little warped. I just know that after bedding, it now shoots as I expect it to. Before, there was definitely some stress being put on the action when bolted into the chassis. I'm going to bet that bedding it will solve your problem, if you want to go that route. I sure am satisfied with mine now, even though it killed the resale value of my stock (I really don't care though).

 

[supercorndogs]

My barreled action is an LRI as well. So I don't know if my problem was the chassis or the Remington action just being a little warped. I just know that after bedding, it now shoots as I expect it to. Before, there was definitely some stress being put on the action when bolted into the chassis. I'm going to bet that bedding it will solve your problem, if you want to go that route. I sure am satisfied with mine now, even though it killed the resale value of my stock (I really don't care though).

I meant my LRI barreled action shoots great in the chassis and the remage wont.

I got pretty good money out of a MCS-TA I bedded to an LRI action with their lug. I think that is a set up very similar to a lot guys. So the interchangeability factor goes up.

 

[supercorndogs]

Yep, you got it I can't imagine why I made such a ridiculous comment. Oh, and thanks for the dislike nothing says thanks for your help like a poke in the eye.

I must have pushed it when trying to quote your post. Although your statement was less than helpful, my questions were to get some clarification, as I dont understand how a machine shop would indicate an action. If you will read my original post you will see I had the same problem with the factory barrel. Which would preclude me removing the barrel as a factor in bending the action.

 

[knockemdown]

I screwed up a bedding job somehow and got the 'two group' situation, too.
Upon further investigation, tightening the rear action screw resulted in the tang compressing. Reckon the action must've 'rocked' back & forth in the bedding which squeezed too much compound out. Anyway, a "re-do" with a good & proper bedding job fixed it. Live & learn!
Good luck, hope ya get it squared away...

 

[supercorndogs]

I screwed up a bedding job somehow and got the 'two group' situation, too.
Upon further investigation, tightening the rear action screw resulted in the tang compressing. Reckon the action must've 'rocked' back & forth in the bedding which squeezed too much compound out. Anyway, a "re-do" with a good & proper bedding job fixed it. Live & learn!
Good luck, hope ya get it squared away...

I am gonna try. I think I will get a non mini chassis stock to bed it in.

 

[Ledzep]

Just put a dab of JB weld around each action screw in the chassis. To keep the action from trying to "bottom out" in the V block when you tighten the screws down. Install the screws (greased so it doesn't glue together) just so that it holds the action to the chassis. NO torque. Let it sit for 24 hours and see what you get. If it doesn't fix the problem, the little spots of JB weld will pop off with a wooden stick and hammer.

 

[supercorndogs]

Just put a dab of JB weld around each action screw in the chassis. To keep the action from trying to "bottom out" in the V block when you tighten the screws down. Install the screws (greased so it doesn't glue together) just so that it holds the action to the chassis. NO torque. Let it sit for 24 hours and see what you get. If it doesn't fix the problem, the little spots of JB weld will pop off with a wooden stick and hammer.

That is another very good idea.

 

[181backup]

I'm really reaching but here goes, but did you distort your action while removing a factory barrel? I would take the action to a tool shop and have them indicate it otherwise you're just guessing. Good luck.

Just wondering what would you have them Indicate in the bolt race way maybe?

 

[181backup]

Just bed it it will most likely take care of it I've seen this on several

 

[Badfinger]

Just wondering what would you have them Indicate in the bolt race way maybe?

The title is "Bent Action". If not using precision measurement how would you determine if the action or anything else is "bent"? They can and do get damaged when factory barrels are removed. Yes, I would check everything relative to the center line or axis of the receiver. I think Super got it figured out.

 

[181backup]

The title is "Bent Action". If not using precision measurement how would you determine if the action or anything else is "bent"? They can and do get damaged when factory barrels are removed. Yes, I would check everything relative to the center line or axis of the receiver. I think Super got it figured out.

Most generally all factory rem. Actions have a bend or bow to them or distortions of some kind from heat treating. With most bedding block stocks its not much of a problem if the bow or bend is up in the middle making clearance in the bottom middle. But if it bends the other way like a canoe and you tighten the ends pulling down on each end it makes a lot of stress so much that a bolt will bind if bad enough. But by the title I can see where it could be confusing.

 

[LRI]

Chassis stuff:

This is kind of a bitch to describe. Bear with me.

Most chassis stocks are little more than a V shaped feeding trough with a couple holes stuck in them. Take a round piece of pipe and it naturally aligns itself tangent to the two flat surfaces that meet one another somewhere below.

What goofs this up is the tang and rear guard screw location. Because Remington tangs taper to a "broadhead" like shape, they stop making contact with the stock ahead of the rear guard screw. The result of that is a pivot point. -Fulcrum. So, you go to snug this thing up and the front screw pulls down as expected. The rear however is trying like hell to lift the front of the receiver out of the stock. Keep going and you end up with an action that behaves like a housecat being petted across its back. The receiver has "hunch back" syndrome.

Bedding the ass end will resolve this. So will modifying the torque value on the rear screw. -Just enough being the focal point.

As for a bent receiver:

Remington does a poor, poor job of controlling the bore centerline to outer periphery feature of the rear bridge surface. They suck at it quite frankly. That in mind you also have to hold the optic base manufacturer to some degree of responsibility too. Because the actions fluctuate and because over the years they have changed the dimension, the guys making the bases have not evolved the product.

In their defense, how can they really? What business is really going to design, manufacture, and stock an infinite number of varying base heights to meet all the demands. Then complicate it by someone at home armed only with $50 calipers from Amazon trying to determine the value. -Surface plates, dead centers, and height stands, or probes are the only really good way to figure this out.


I would speculate this: If the bolt slides in/out of the action and does not bind or stick anywhere the action is likely just fine in terms of straightness. If you can look down the ass end of it and the race ways appear flat and parallel then it's an almost certainty. A healthy human eye has about a .002" resolution. Trust it. If it looks right, it almost always is.

 

[supercorndogs]

always is.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Mr. Dixon. We are lucky a guy like you will take the time to come here and answer questions. Looking down the rails it looks straight as an arrow, but tightening down the rear screw its about 2/3 of a turn, after I feel tension before the rear of the action makes a hard stop. I just snug them up at this point. Pretty close the the 65/45 manners suggests. It looked like something was twisted Looking at the bedding on the base, but I bedded it with the action pulled down in the chassis

 

[181backup]

Chassis stuff:

This is kind of a bitch to describe. Bear with me.

Most chassis stocks are little more than a V shaped feeding trough with a couple holes stuck in them. Take a round piece of pipe and it naturally aligns itself tangent to the two flat surfaces that meet one another somewhere below.

What goofs this up is the tang and rear guard screw location. Because Remington tangs taper to a "broadhead" like shape, they stop making contact with the stock ahead of the rear guard screw. The result of that is a pivot point. -Fulcrum. So, you go to snug this thing up and the front screw pulls down as expected. The rear however is trying like hell to lift the front of the receiver out of the stock. Keep going and you end up with an action that behaves like a housecat being petted across its back. The receiver has "hunch back" syndrome.

Bedding the ass end will resolve this. So will modifying the torque value on the rear screw. -Just enough being the focal point.

As for a bent receiver:

Remington does a poor, poor job of controlling the bore centerline to outer periphery feature of the rear bridge surface. They suck at it quite frankly. That in mind you also have to hold the optic base manufacturer to some degree of responsibility too. Because the actions fluctuate and because over the years they have changed the dimension, the guys making the bases have not evolved the product.

In their defense, how can they really? What business is really going to design, manufacture, and stock an infinite number of varying base heights to meet all the demands. Then complicate it by someone at home armed only with $50 calipers from Amazon trying to determine the value. -Surface plates, dead centers, and height stands, or probes are the only really good way to figure this out.


I would speculate this: If the bolt slides in/out of the action and does not bind or stick anywhere the action is likely just fine in terms of straightness. If you can look down the ass end of it and the race ways appear flat and parallel then it's an almost certainty. A healthy human eye has about a .002" resolution. Trust it. If it looks right, it almost always is.

Not only better with rifles but also better with words