I also had overspray. Removing it also didn’t help.
- Thread starter Cheesusrice69
- Start date
@Dog Doc @mikehill85 @Ryan66 how long were your Bergara's in service before they shipped them back to you? I was told once it is assigned to a gunsmith, it should be returned within 30 days(!!). 
They told me the same. They returned it in < 3 weeks because they just confirmed that it shot like garbage and sent it back without touching it or telling me they were returning it. I was out of town and had to pay UPS out of my own pocket to avoid it being retuned to sender. Had I known they didn’t touch it, I would have gladly let them have that turd…@Dog Doc @mikehill85 @Ryan66 how long were your Bergara's in service before they shipped them back to you? I was told once it is assigned to a gunsmith, it should be returned within 30 days(!!).
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About the same experience I had. They claimed they sent an email and it may be in my spam folder. Nope. They never sent an email at all. Assigned to a gunsmith...I don't believe this for a minute. Same story I got but a true gunsmith would not have considered mikehill85 group variation I don't think any true gunsmith would consider that acceptable. My group sizes were supposedly .77 and .88 MOA. I have to say even though I lost a great deal on trading it off, I'm happy where I ended up. I have a gas gun shooting like a hammer that I would gladly shoot against the bolt action I had from Bergara.
That's great man. I'm happy for you. Better not to give into the sunk cost fallacy anyway. I've been chasing my tail with this one for probably too long.
I bedded the recoil lug on mine. Based on the wear marks on the back of the lug and on the aluminum bedding block there clearly wasn't very good contact. Will it make a difference? At this point I'd say I give it a 10% chance of making it shoot better, a 10% chance of making it shoot worse, and an 80% chance of doing nothing whatsoever. We'll see this weekend if the weather permits, if not, then Monday.
Mine was similar story and experience - told me 30 days after gunsmith assignment but mine was much faster. Maybe a total of 3 weeks which includes the time to ship there, bergara to review it, and ship it back to me which I thought was quite fast. In my opinion it’s worth doing with bergara to rule out anything.@Dog Doc @mikehill85 @Ryan66 how long were your Bergara's in service before they shipped them back to you? I was told once it is assigned to a gunsmith, it should be returned within 30 days(!!).
I also found out the gun shipped back to me via a UPS missed delivery note stuck to my door. Didn’t find any notice that it was on its way back until it actually showed up.
My group sizes were .39, .47, . 7 and they included the .39 group test target which was achieved with factory Hornady ammo 55vmax.
I have some 55vmax on my bench and will be loading some to try to replicate this. It will be 3 weeks at least before I can get back to the range but I’ll report back with whatever happens!
Best of luck to you. In my case, they shot a 0.17 MOA group which is very good and a 0.98 MOA group, which is bad for 3-shots in my book. This is the issue I've been having with the gun (i.e. extreme inconsistency even with Premium ammo and handloads).
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I find it interesting that their Sub MOA guarantee is defined as:
Yet, as of late, I am seeing posts like yours of Bergara testing using rounds not on their list!
I appreciate the wishes of luck - I think I’ll need it!
At this point I think it’s worth a try to reload a few rounds using the same bullet they did on their accuracy test (55vmax in a 22-250). I’ll load them to book length and try different charge weights across H380 and Varget.
If I can achieve accuracy results like bergara did then I’ll live with it.
In my case they actually did use ammo on their list. 55Vmax in 22-250. But I don’t doubt what you are saying.I find it interesting that their Sub MOA guarantee is defined as:
Yet, as of late, I am seeing posts like yours of Bergara testing using rounds not on their list!
There isn’t a lot of heavy bullet 22-250 factory ammo but I bought this rifle specifically because it has a 9 twist barrel which should be good for up to some 75gr bullets at the velocity from a 22-250 and I am a reloader. So I’m not terribly excited to have a picky barrel or only have luck with the traditional lightweight stuff IF that happens to work out.
Wherever I end up … my journey here might be interesting even though it’s been frustrating so far.
Update: I tried bedding the recoil lug last week and shooting some groups today after work. I only had enough powder for 3 5-shot groups. Anyway, I averaged 0.8 MOA and all groups were under 1 MOA. Previously I had gotten an average of 1.2 MOA with the same load.
Anyway, I have some more powder on the way. Hopefully I'll be able to give a more definitive answer as to whether it helped then. That said, at least things are trending in the right direction. I didn't have any crazy fliers today.
Anyway, I have some more powder on the way. Hopefully I'll be able to give a more definitive answer as to whether it helped then. That said, at least things are trending in the right direction. I didn't have any crazy fliers today.
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With three, FIVE shot groups, you have officially exceeded the Bergara Sub MOA guarantee specifications.
What process & product(s) did you use for the bedding?
I used Marine Tex Gray. I just removed some material from the front aluminum bedding block, applied release agent to the action, applied release agent to the action screws, applied tape to the bottom and front of the recoil lug, taped the sides of the stock to make cleanup easier, put epoxy in the front bedding block, torqued the action screws to 55 in-lbs, and crossed my fingers.
Anyway, the load I used wasn’t the best load for the rifle, I used what I had on hand. Without the bedding I had maybe 30% contact with the recoil lug and bedding block, so it makes sense that bedding would help. I’ll give an update when I have more powder and can’t test things more thoroughly.
You can see the amount of contact I was previously getting below (the shiny silver part at the bottom…definitely sub-optimal). It shouldn’t have left the factory like that IMO.
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I noticed several replies mentioning torquing the action screws...
What value did you torque them to... 55 in/lbs like the factory recommends?
I did that and mine shot worse than it ever did.
I backed off the torque to a lower value and saw great improvement.
I won't say the value I torqued to is the magic number for everyone else's rifle. But I can say that 55 in/lbs is definitely NOT the correct value for mine.
I'm sure the legal team at Bergara would have a fit if they read this... Don't fuckin' care. The rifle shoots the way it should.
Mike
What value did you torque them to... 55 in/lbs like the factory recommends?
I did that and mine shot worse than it ever did.
I backed off the torque to a lower value and saw great improvement.
I won't say the value I torqued to is the magic number for everyone else's rifle. But I can say that 55 in/lbs is definitely NOT the correct value for mine.
I'm sure the legal team at Bergara would have a fit if they read this... Don't fuckin' care. The rifle shoots the way it should.
Mike
What torque setting did you settle on? I wouldn't mind giving it a try. I set mine to 55 in-lbs, as recommended.
35 in/lbs... I know that sounds low but it hasn't loosened up on me... I know because I check it before every shooting session now.
I really figured I would have issues with it coming loose with 300 Win Mag recoil... But it has held steady.
Mike
This is very interesting and makes me wonder if their chassis system is sub par with varying results. I didn't think to drop my action in a different chassis before I got so frustrated and traded mine off at a huge loss. Still following along with you guys though!
Just curious. Do any of you guys with another chassis laying around to try this theory? If you were close to KC I have one!
Sub par? I don't know. Maybe. I don't have anything to compare it to.
I have an inkling as to why adjusting the action screw torque has an effect on how the rifle groups... But I'm far from being enough of an expert to say exactly why. I'm sure there are some guys on here who can explain it... Or at least explain it better than some hick from Nowhere, Oklahoma.
I can't take credit for it. I just happened across a YT video where a couple guys demonstrated the results of different torque values on grouping and POI shift... The sad part is that I had forgotten about the video and was cussing my rifle after setting my screws to factory spec.
If a guy already has a torque screwdriver it doesn't cost much to test it... It takes some ammo which can be scarce and expensive now. But it's cheap compared to spinning up a different barrel, etc... And the way I see it, if you're going to do much shooting you should probably have some kind of torquing tool on hand... Or have a buddy who does. Lol
Mike
You seem to have discovered how they achieve Sub MOA results during their testing, then tighten the action before shipping it back to you.
Unfortunately no, and I live in Wisconsin at this point. The upside is my range is 10 minutes from my house. The downside is living in Wisconsin. Anyway, I have 5,000 primers, powder on the way, and not a lot of other ways to fill the time. I’m going to do my best to solve the mystery of why this gun doesn’t shoot.
I would never had thought that loosening action screw torque could improve groups, however I lost sleep over why a sub MOA guaranteed gun could shoot well for them and not me, when I can shoot other rifles as good as the creator of said rifle guarantees. If I am off with other rifles I know it was me. The Bergara was throwing fliers all of the time. And any time I tested it, I always took another rifle as a comparison to see if I was off on any day. Eventually I got so fed up trying and after they evaluated the rifle and said it was fine, I lost interest in the company. I am still curious as to why some group well and some don't. I really wanted to like my Bergara as it was my first "lefty". As a left handed person, if anything it made me realize I really like the concept of proper technique, and have multiple builds in process. I will no longer take the gamble on a factory gun that claims MOA unless it is a company that stands behind that. Still glad I traded it even though it was a huge financial loss. By the way I saved the sub MOA guarantee sticker that was on the barrel just for a laugh.
I think you made a very rational/good decision. In the end, there’s no point of spending this amount of time, effort, and money/ammo on a gun unless you’re bored/have given in to sunk cost fallacy.
As I was only shooting match factory ammo, I estimate i was out about 500 there too. Looking back it was quite the mistake. Reloading is in the near future but I couldn't justify it with Bergara. with some 2" fliers there was no way I would try. Something is causing this.
Yeah, that’s the exact same problem I’ve been having. I will definitely be giving up on this rifle if I can’t reproduce results from Monday, even then, they don’t hold a candle to my Tikka which is half MOA without even trying. Regardless of what happens, I’ll never be buying a Bergara again, for obvious reasons.
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All of the guys I know where I bought the rifle are having similar thoughts after my experience. Hard to recommend. A lot of bad publicity for this company for sure. Not my intent as I know there are some that shoot well supposedly, but being transparent is what it is.
I'm not going to say it would have worked for you. It might not have made a bit of difference. So don't second guess your decision.
I just threw it out there as one more box to tick off the checklist for anyone who might be scratching their head.
The only thing I can definitively say is that in my case it worked.
Mike
This post is worth what you’re paying for it lol.
I had a Bergara HMR in 7mm Rem Mag. I put the barreled action into a McRee precision chassis. Shot it at the range a little, and wasn’t impressed. I ended up selling it to go with a lighter build, but it didn’t shoot well when I did shoot it, and I kinda doubt it ever would have. I’m not buying another Bergara. I also had a $250 Savage Axis II in .223 that bone stock could shoot 1/2” and 5/8” groups with factory ammo every time you took it out.
Don’t waste your money on a Bergara. Buy a Tikka, or build custom.
I had a Bergara HMR in 7mm Rem Mag. I put the barreled action into a McRee precision chassis. Shot it at the range a little, and wasn’t impressed. I ended up selling it to go with a lighter build, but it didn’t shoot well when I did shoot it, and I kinda doubt it ever would have. I’m not buying another Bergara. I also had a $250 Savage Axis II in .223 that bone stock could shoot 1/2” and 5/8” groups with factory ammo every time you took it out.
Don’t waste your money on a Bergara. Buy a Tikka, or build custom.
Interestingly, Bergara’s repair folks said my action screws were overtorqued (even though I went out of my way to torque to 55 in-lbs before sending it in). When they sent the rifle back to me and I tried to measure the torque they used, reversing the screws maxed out my wrench.You seem to have discovered how they achieve Sub MOA results during their testing, then tighten the action before shipping it back to you.
It took more than 65 in-lbs to reverse the action screws even though they are supposed to torque to 55 in-lbs. I'm not sure if it is something to do with the geometry of the screws or what but I have noticed that if you torque to a certain torque level and leave the gun for a few days, the torque required to reverse the screws goes up well beyond what you initially torqued it to. I don't claim this information is useful in any way, just an observation.
Something I forgot to put in my last post.
When I was doing some research on the B14 in 7mm Rem Mag, I found something interesting and sort of ridiculous. I don’t remember if I ran across it here on the Hide, or somewhere else.
A guy had a B14 HMR in 7mm Rem Mag. Like a lot of guys, he couldn’t get it to group well. When he reached out to Bergara about the issue, they told him that they test the 7mm REM Mags with 190gr match loads. Why do I think this is ridiculous? Well, a 190 gr bullet is a little on the heavy side for the Rem Mag. They are better off with 168-175 grain loads. So Bergara is basically saying that they only guarantee sub MOA with loads that are a little heavy for the cartridge. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised though, since all of the other foolishness about Bergara on this thread. Just thought some guys might like to know this info.
When I was doing some research on the B14 in 7mm Rem Mag, I found something interesting and sort of ridiculous. I don’t remember if I ran across it here on the Hide, or somewhere else.
A guy had a B14 HMR in 7mm Rem Mag. Like a lot of guys, he couldn’t get it to group well. When he reached out to Bergara about the issue, they told him that they test the 7mm REM Mags with 190gr match loads. Why do I think this is ridiculous? Well, a 190 gr bullet is a little on the heavy side for the Rem Mag. They are better off with 168-175 grain loads. So Bergara is basically saying that they only guarantee sub MOA with loads that are a little heavy for the cartridge. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised though, since all of the other foolishness about Bergara on this thread. Just thought some guys might like to know this info.
Good to know. I also find it odd that (for the 308 version at least) they only recommend match ammo for accuracy with their "Hunting/Match Rifle". What about hunting? For some calibers they only list one recommended load. Lol.
I honestly hope they go under but that's just me be vindictive. Lol.
Its not, you cant reverse calculate torque like that.
Good to know. I have only had a torque wrench for a few years so I didn't know.
FYI, I was finally able to thoroughly test the difference bedding the recoil lug made today. My 5-shot group average out of 6 groups was 0.87 MOA. The largest group was 1.12 MOA and the smallest was 0.5 MOA. That’s nothing to write home about but it is definitely the best 6 group session I’ve had with the rifle so far and a step in the right direction.
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This is quite interesting news. I honestly would have considered that appropriate if I could have had that accuracy. Takes me back to wishing I would have tried my action in a different stock/chassis to see if it would have been different. Happy to see you getting improvement and continue to plug away at trying to fix it! I lost a lot of money dumping mine on trade but the Seekins SP10 I put that money toward has been amazing so happy in the end! Keep going! Maybe you can get that thing to a 0.5MOA rifle! Definitely still doesn't meet their advertised 1 MOA guarantee though due to the amount of work you have put in to it...
Honestly I think you're a lot better off with your SP10. For me, it's basically just a personal challenge at this point to see if I can get it to shoot. ~0.9 MOA isn't great but at least it isn't embarrassingly horrible.
After four weeks, I have my HMR Pro back from BPI.
The gunsmith notes indicate that:
The bolt is nice and smooth now as expected.
I also received a one time 20% off coupon for use on anything from their website.
All in all, I am very satisfied with the outcome so far. Now I have to try it out myself.
The gunsmith notes indicate that:
- It was sent to production for rework.
- The action was completely replaced.
- It was sent to the range for test firing.
The bolt is nice and smooth now as expected.
I also received a one time 20% off coupon for use on anything from their website.
All in all, I am very satisfied with the outcome so far. Now I have to try it out myself.
I hope everything works out for you, but they sent me a 0.3 MOA 3-shot group (followed by a 0.98 MOA group) and that rifle is far and away the least precise rifle I’ve ever owned. 3 shot groups are a statistically meaningless measure of precision. I’m fairly certain I could piss more precise groups at 100 yards than what passes for “precision” at Bergarbage.
Update: I recently was cleaning my gun and noticed there are flat spots on the bolt shroud threads at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions. I am wondering if this is normal. I am thinking maybe inconsistent ignition could be the cause of my accuracy woes. Regardless, I don't think the threads and side of the shroud are supposed to be flattened like that.
They're not.
Iirc this was a recall issue. At the risk of sounding dense, contact Bergara.....
Thanks. I did. They said they put a replacement “on order” for me…whatever that means. Sounds like I probably won’t be getting the replacement anytime soon.
One other thing to note, I was randomly getting popped primers even with loads well under max. This may well be why.
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I see you are still battling this rifle! So has it started shooting any better?
I haven’t really gotten a chance to shoot it over the past few months due to work, etc., but I should be able to soon. I will probably do it after they send the replacement bolt shroud. I kind of doubt it will help but it’s definitely something that is messed up and replacing it definitely won't hurt.
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FYI,
I got the new shroud today. It turns out that the flat spots are on the new shroud threads too. It is from the 2021 version of the rifle, for reference. I'm surprised because that doesn't look like something that should be on a new shroud. I know that on older versions there was more extreme flattening occurring to the point that the shroud would jump back a few threads and cause ignition issues. Looks like the solution was to just pre-flatten the threads. Lol. Oh well. At least I have a spare now.
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Sucks to hear about people having so many issues with Bergara products. I only have a sample size of 1 but my HMR Pro 6.5 prc consistently shoots .7-.8 moa with factory Hornady 147 Eldm ammo and
consistently shoots .4-.6 moa with my handloads.
consistently shoots .4-.6 moa with my handloads.
