Was wondering if anyone has experience with this ammo. I was thinking of trying it but it cost about $5 box more than the GMM 6.5 with the berger 130's I have been shooting. I have heard it is loaded with Lapua brass and if so would be well worth it for the extra but have not been able to find hard data confirming. Can anyone confirm. it is Lapua Brass?
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Thanks! That will be worth it then! Anyone know if it is SRP?
Great! Thanks!!!
95% sure my Berger 260 ammo is LRP
I know a guy who knows a gal who is in the know.
Starline and Peterson makes 260 SRP, really nice brass.
It’s the best factory ammo I’ve ever shot
OP, post 3374 should address your initial question of if Berger ammo is any good, worth the extra $.
Bang for the buck, Berger is best factory / non custom “factory” ammo available.
Bang for the buck, Berger is best factory / non custom “factory” ammo available.
No it’s not don’t listen to any of them... Go buy Hornady or Federal whatever.
So Berger lists the 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 Hybrid at 2850 from a 26" barrel while Hornady lists their 140 ELD-M at 2710 (but they don't list barrel length), obviously we must chrono for whatever our barrel is, but are the Berger's generally hotter than the Hornady Match loads?
For the 136gr secnar load in 260 Rem im getting 2850 out of a 26" Barrel which is right at what the box velocity says.
Anyone have an idea if Berger is using a temp stable powder?
I recently did some testing with the Berger 140gr hybrid loaded 6.5CM. The raw data is in this thread on post #27. Now that Berger and Lapua are the same company all their loaded ammo is in Lapua brass. The 6.5CM that I used was small rifle primer.
Now about the powder. I have a faint recolection that the Capstone folks told me at Shot that they were going to load the Berger stuff with their vihtavuori powders so I expect it is one of those (Capstone, vihtavuori, Berger, and Lapua are all the same corporate entity now though they have many production facilities.) I haven't tested the ammo at a bunch of different temperatures but What I do know is that the SD of this ammo during my testing was the lowest I have tested from any loaded ammo @11.84 fps. Given the time the ammo spent in hot barrel prior to being fired varied, I think this bodes well for temperature stability.
I should also mention that despite being both one of the heaviest bullet, and highest velocity 6.5CM's I tested, this one had by far the least recoil. It felt like I was shooting a .223.
My take on the Berger loaded 6.5CM is that it is well worth a try. On balance, I think it was the best performer in my rifle and I'm pretty impressed.
Thank you Fish, I remember going through your thread at the time, but that was before I realized that Berger Ammo was actually priced competitively...
I average 2796 with an SD of 9.2 out of a 24” Bartlein with the 140’s
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I was getting 2830 with SDs in the 9-10 range out of a 25” Krieger. I liked it so much I ended up with 300rds, and reverse engineered a loaded round to start my load development.
I have shot ~1000 rounds of the factory Berger Lapua 140gr Hybrid Target. Honestly I don't know how many I have chrono'ed but it is a good bit. It has always been 8-10 SD, 20-30 ES. I am getting 2885fps out of a factory 24" AI barrel.
There does seem to be some lot difference from when it was first released to now, the newer lots are about 50fps faster. I have shot a couple of the newer lots and they are all the same. I suspect Berger changed the recipe
There does seem to be some lot difference from when it was first released to now, the newer lots are about 50fps faster. I have shot a couple of the newer lots and they are all the same. I suspect Berger changed the recipe
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FWIW I have the 6mm CM too.
SRP Lapua brass 105 Berger. My lot seems a bit slower than Hornady or hand loading at 2900fps in a 24”.
6.5 or 6mm it is a real bargain. Lapua brass is 1.08 each, the 105s .39 each, maybe .04 for the primer, .20 powder.. let’s say $1.70 to $1.50 for just the components + my time on the first batch of hand loads.
I paid $1.35 a round for the loaded Berger with the above components.. that’s a 20% savings and all I am doing is opening the box
SRP Lapua brass 105 Berger. My lot seems a bit slower than Hornady or hand loading at 2900fps in a 24”.
6.5 or 6mm it is a real bargain. Lapua brass is 1.08 each, the 105s .39 each, maybe .04 for the primer, .20 powder.. let’s say $1.70 to $1.50 for just the components + my time on the first batch of hand loads.
I paid $1.35 a round for the loaded Berger with the above components.. that’s a 20% savings and all I am doing is opening the box
Am I remembering correctly that the Berger 130s will work in an AICS mag, but their 140s are single-feed because of COAL?
After I asked the question I went and tried to find what I was thinking of. On their website Berger makes reference to the 140 being for single-feed. I don't know why they'd refer to them that way if they fit a mag:
6.5 Creedmoor 140 Grain Hybrid Target
bergerbullets.com
140 is over 2.820” and won’t feed from a Rem 700 hinged floor plate magazine as you are limited to 2.820 (best case).
AICS magazine will reliably take and feed an OAL of 2.865, some AICS will do smidgen longer but every AICS mag I’ve had will do 2.865
AICS magazine will reliably take and feed an OAL of 2.865, some AICS will do smidgen longer but every AICS mag I’ve had will do 2.865
I’ve never had a 140 not feed out of an AICS
Awesome, thanks for clarifying. I have about a case of 140 Amax left and have been trying to find a new factory round for 600yd F-Class and 1000yd steel (mostly what I shoot at my range).
I'd been considering the 147ELD, but that 140 hybrid looked great, but I mistakenly thought it would be too long to mag feed.
Now back to obsessing on what the new round will be....
I'd been considering the 147ELD, but that 140 hybrid looked great, but I mistakenly thought it would be too long to mag feed.
Now back to obsessing on what the new round will be....
True, but not everyone has a no front binder plate magazine. “Worst” case is 2.865. Berger shorter and feeds fine.
Additionally if it is a Rem 700 action, anything over 2.900” OAL needs a notched feed ramp.
Some early custom Rem 700 footprint actions were not notched feed ramp or otherwise configured to handle 2.90+” OAL.
Here is my dissection of a Berger 140 factory round
Lapua SRP brass
COAL: 2.810
CBTO: 2.1285
Case: 1.909
Headspace: 1.555
41.4 grains of some kind of powder. Looks like 4350, but it could be anything.
Brass and primer 171.4 grains
Box says 2850fps, but out of a 24inch RPR, i think it was around 2740. SD around 10 and ES around 25.
Awesome ammo. I buy boxes everytime I want new brass. As stated above, even at 1.60 per round, that is less than you can buy the components.
Lapua SRP brass
COAL: 2.810
CBTO: 2.1285
Case: 1.909
Headspace: 1.555
41.4 grains of some kind of powder. Looks like 4350, but it could be anything.
Brass and primer 171.4 grains
Box says 2850fps, but out of a 24inch RPR, i think it was around 2740. SD around 10 and ES around 25.
Awesome ammo. I buy boxes everytime I want new brass. As stated above, even at 1.60 per round, that is less than you can buy the components.
I think I read that it’s a VV powder (since Berger/Lapua/VV have the same parent company or a major business relationship or something). Maybe N560 or N160 given the charge weight bracketing on VV’s loading data? But then velocity doesn’t line up.
Shot two boxes of Berger 140 “factory” ammo and it was accurate. Good quality Lapua brass too, so very good for reloading. Measured MV for one box only: 2822 fps average out of a 30” Shilen barrel, SD was around 15 fps. ES around 40 fps. Others got better SDs, so maybe i was just unlucky. Savage Model 12. Had two pierced primers though. Might have to get the firing pin bushed. However: Never seen that before in this rifle, but i use CCI450 magnum SRP primers, which apparently has a harder cup. Very hot day in Texas, 98 F, might have contributed, but no ejector marks. No hard bolt life. Good radius on primers. But massive crater walls on some cases. I think the primer cups are a little soft.
Was i just unlucky, or did anybody else see pierced primers?
Was i just unlucky, or did anybody else see pierced primers?
Attachments
I shot two cases of Berger’s 6.5 Creedmoor 140 Hybrid Match Loads. They were from two different lots P001500 & P001535). The barrel is a 22” Proof CF LSC.
MV measured on a single Labradar averaged 2733 fps at temps in the high 70s to low 90’s. Elevation < 100’. It shoots sub MOA. The P001500 lot seemed a bit faster.
MV measured on a single Labradar averaged 2733 fps at temps in the high 70s to low 90’s. Elevation < 100’. It shoots sub MOA. The P001500 lot seemed a bit faster.
Did you capture sd/es?
Any issues with pressure in a gas gun? My rifle loves the 130s but it’s definitely on the hot side chronoed at 2905 from a 24” barrel.
Depends on
Depends on how your gas gun is set up.
Lotta variables left undefined in your question.
Depends on how your gas gun is set up.
Lotta variables left undefined in your question.
Yes, but not for all 400 rounds. I’ll dig up some numbers for you.
Thanks. I thinking about going this route for the first 200 rounds on a new barrel.
That would be a great option to do. Get your barrel broken in with some great once firce Lapua
Sorry, was too general of a question.
Rifle+2. JP LMOS carrier, JP HSCS, gas system tuned to round. It cycles but have only put 5 rounds through it, I just notice it recoils harsher than Hornady.
I’m wondering if you would consider the powder burn speed acceptable for a gas gun? For the Creedmoor rounds I’ve found H4350 to be ideal with H4831sc to be a little too slow. I haven’t tried faster powders like Varget but slower burning powders have caused issues for me.
This is assuming you actually have insight into the manufacture. I assumed you were affiliated with Berger but, I just now saw McCourt in your signature.
Berger is running a powder that is optimized more for bolt gun than gas gun.
Can gas gun be made to work well with the Berger ammo? Yes, can be done but it requires some tuning of gun to ammo to match time / pressure curve.
Can gas gun be made to work well with the Berger ammo? Yes, can be done but it requires some tuning of gun to ammo to match time / pressure curve.
You should. I just bought 5 more cases. Some of which will be used for exactly that.
Data from a broken in Proof CF 1:8 22" barrel. Lot 1500 and 1535.
Data from a brand new 26" Bartlein Gain Twist 1:8.5-1:7.7 barrel.
| Total number of shots | 21 |
| Stats - Average | 2733.04 | fps |
| Stats - Highest | 2756.58 | fps |
| Stats - Lowest | 2714.89 | fps |
| Stats - Ext. Spread | 41.69 | fps |
| Stats - Std. Dev | 10.63 | fps |
Data from a brand new 26" Bartlein Gain Twist 1:8.5-1:7.7 barrel.
| Total number of shots | 33 |
| Stats - Average | 2765.83 | fps |
| Stats - Highest | 2808.75 | fps |
| Stats - Lowest | 2731.89 | fps |
| Stats - Ext. Spread | 76.85 | fps |
| Stats - Std. Dev | 20.06 | fps |
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Berger ammo sucks buy federal or hornady
What's your sample size?
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