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Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

E

Extreme454

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Apr 11, 2010
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www.extrememotorsports.biz
One rifle, one scope, one caliber, 100 yards to 2000 yards. What’s the best?

Ok, so I’m sure similar questions have been posted before, but let me clarify to help separate my question from others.

My definitions:

Best – The combination(<span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span>) of the following components that is the most accurate, consistent, efficient and repeatable.

Rifle – Factory production?, custom build?(if so, please explain which barrel, twist, etc), what options? added or changed? Muzzle brake, etc?

Scope – Brand? Magnification? Reticle? Factory add-ons(turrets,etc)

Hardware – Base?, rings?, bipod?, cheek riser? Cosine indicator? Level? Etc…

Caliber – This is wide open, and I’m sure could be debated for years, but with my scenarios below, it might get narrowed down quickly. Must be effective to 800 yards(might eliminate a lot of sub 30cal stuff).

The above four items can not add up to more than $8500 combined. Kudos to those that come up with legitimate <span style="font-weight: bold">combos</span> that are a substantial savings.

I’d also like the rifle to be mobile, and usable for hunting, so the heavier rifles are out, such as most Barrets, EDM, most 50 cals, etc..

I want to be shown what <span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span> can shoot ½ moa or better at 100 yards, and continue to hold that accuracy until _____ yards . Obviously, we all want to shoot 10” or better groups at 2000 yards, but lets keep it real. Lets say the shots past 1400 yards can be 1 moa.(hopefully under).

Its understood past 1200 yards things get tricky but lets assume all of the stars are aligned so we can focus on equipment not skill or outside elements.

Lets assume wind is 5 mph or so, its real world, cuz every time I want to shoot long range, there seems to be a breeze. This will help narrow down caliber choices as well.

This <span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span> should be capable of successfully engaging multiple targets from 100-2000 yards.

What I mean is this:
Shot 1 - Cold bore shot at 100 yards on the bullseye
Shot 2 – Dial up and shoot 435 yards
Shot 3 – Dial up and shoot 920 yards
Shot 4 – Dial up and shoot 1450 yards
Shot 5 – Dial up and shoot 2000 yards
Shot 6 – Dial down and shoot 710 yards
Shot 7 – Dial down and shoot 100 yards – back on zero, on the bullseye

Seven shots total, all on target, assuming the shooter is Bob Lee Swagger. The <span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span> needs to do its job. I would guess the scope has 50% of the responsibility in the above scenario.

The above yardages are just random, and I merely came up with them as examples to put the <span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span> through its paces.

Does this <span style="font-weight: bold">combo</span> exist? If so, do you have one? Can you perform the above with it? Or close?

Is this unrealistic?

I don’t want this to turn into speculation of what we ‘think’ will do the job, based on all the Kool-Aid online getting passed around. For example: “I’ve heard of a guy that has a custom rilfe, with 30” Broughton barrel chambered in 338 Edge, with Nightforce 5.5-22x50, and he claims he and his rifle can perform the above”. <span style="font-weight: bold">THIS WILL NOT DO!</span>

I want some first hand experience. I seriously want to hear from the guys that have these combos and have performed similar scenarios.

This post serves two purposes. Answers a lot of questions I have about the available equipment for ELR(does it all really work), and will help guide me to my next project.

I am on standby to sell my AR30 338 Lapua and my custom RBros rifle in 7WSM, and my Nightforces…. To build/buy, <span style="font-weight: bold">one combo</span>, of My Ultimate set up for the above scenarios. No pressure
smile.gif


Let the fun begin.

Don’t forget to subscribe to this thread, this will probably get good.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Are you talking about reliable and consistent hits at 2000 yards under less than ideal conditions? Now I don't claim to be an expert shooter and all, but I can tell you consistently hitting a less than 2 MOA target size at 2000 yards is not easy, even for the 338LM (been there done that). To really step into the 2000 yards and beyond with realistic and consistent accuracy, you are now talking about the CheyTac system. Also, even with the Cheytac system, when the wind kicks up a notch or two, good luck. Even a 750 grains AMAX from a 50 BMG will get tossed around like a yo-yo (been there done that too).

In terms of portability, lugging a EDM with about 50 rounds in your ruck up an almost vertical climb for even 200-300 feet gives a new meaning to cardio workout. Perhaps, I am a bit wimpy.

Just wondering, have you shot out to 2000 yards or longer before? Please don't take it the wrong way if you have and accept my apology.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you talking about reliable and consistent hits at 2000 yards under less than ideal conditions? Now I don't claim to be an expert shooter and all, but I can tell you consistently hitting a less than 2 MOA target size at 2000 yards is not easy, even for the 338LM (been there done that). To really step into the 2000 yards and beyond with realistic and consistent accuracy, you are now talking about the CheyTac system. Also, even with the Cheytac system, when the wind kicks up a notch or two, good luck. Even a 750 grains AMAX from a 50 BMG will get tossed around like a yo-yo (been there done that too).

In terms of portability, lugging a EDM with about 50 rounds in your ruck up an almost vertical climb for even 200-300 feet gives a new meaning to cardio workout. Perhaps, I am a bit wimpy.

Just wondering, have you shot out to 2000 yards or longer before? Please don't take it the wrong way if you have and accept my apology. </div></div>

Not taken wrong way at all, in fact I think there will probably need to clarification along the way, as I had a hard enough time trying to describe my scenario, let alone each of the shots.

There might have been some mis-understanding, I'll try to clear it up.

As stated in OP, all shots would be in ideal conditions, NOT less than ideal.

Also, as stated in OP, nothing over 2000 yards.
At 2000 yards, it can totally be 2 moa for the scenario(I'm flexible). I'm not trying to focus only on 2000 and definitely nothing above, sorry if I gave out that impression. And also the consistency and repeatability at even 1500 plus could most likely be less demanding for all intensive purposes to help get an over all combo figured out for the scenario as a whole.

Also want to make it clear, I do NOT want to lug around heavy combos.
I'm with you on the wimpy part, I start whining carrying my 7wsm more than a few small hills.

And, no I have never shot past 1000 yards. I am hoping to take my first shots this coming weekend.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I know the 2000 yards is the upper limit for your post, but it is still a far stretch for the 338LM. Can it done? yes, under optimal conditions. If you want "high percentage" hits out to 2000 yards, then the Cheytac system is the one I would consider. For 8.5K budget, I would recommend getting in touch with RWS gunsmith and ask Rob to build you a 375 Cheytac, then the rest of the money can go to scope.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Thanks for the info.

Ok, just thinking out load here. 375 Cheytac sounds appealing, and I think I could pull it off in my budget, I just wonder if I'm asking too much. Is the scenario(with the extreme longer ranges) unrealistic?

Most shots for me past 1200 yards will be for the fun factor. Although my fun factor, and purpose of being in this hobby is based on accuracy, I don't want to compromise the portability and the real life usage of the rifle which 80% will be for 1000 yards and in, just so I'm more accurate at 1500 yards and out(20% usage) compared to say 338 lapua.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if there is a prize at the end of this question</div></div>

LOL, its my question, and I'm wondering the same thing...
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

yep, almost any caliber can get great accuracy upto 1000yds or a bit beyond... your proviso of being very capable @ 2000yds is what sorts the weed from the chaff, and only gives you a few options in terms of caliber.

So in terms of caliber, i would be going for a 338 or 375 derivative of the cheytac/cheytac improved etc. As your looking at a 'lightweight cheytac', i would suggest one of the .338 cheytac and/or improved versions such as the 338 snipetac, allen magnum, big baer etc. in a carbon laminate stock. Many of these have been built under 16lbs scoped.

Definately a "Single shot custom action" for accuracy and to save weight, too many to choose from and its impossible to say which is "best", many fine CNC actions will be ideal so im not going there...

30in barrel, longer would be nice but, again your looking to save weight so 30in is about as long as you need to get you to 2000yds comfortably. The projectile is another consideration in this system, and you would match the twist rate to this projectile. A 1:9 twist would give you many fine options of projectiles for both high BC solids and 300-325gr jacketed bullets such as the RMB, SMK or scenar etc. If you go super exotic custom bullets, you could go down to an 7-8twist for ultimate BC and long range superiority - but then you wont be able to ethically go hunting without expanding bullets or even shoot jacketed bullets as they will blow up...

Then you just need a damn fine scope on a 40MOA base to give you the elevation range needed. Again, many to choose from with at least 100MOA elevation range, all of them $$$, but the whole thing under $8.5k is certainly doable. NF 5.5x22 would be the cheapest, then premier reticles, then S&B PM2 etc etc, all good.

My rig fits your needs almost exactly, which is why i built it in the first place. The only thing that doesnt fit your needs is mine is a 375cheytac with a longer heavier barrel, so the weight is up there around 22lbs and is too heavy to carry around comfortably... but i like the weight in order to make shooting it more comfortable and steady. It shoots all distances upto 2000 with great accuracy.
IMG_0264.jpg

 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yep, almost any caliber can get great accuracy upto 1000yds or a bit beyond... your proviso of being very capable @ 2000yds is what sorts the weed from the chaff, and only gives you a few options in terms of caliber.

So in terms of caliber, i would be going for a 338 or 375 derivative of the cheytac/cheytac improved etc. As your looking at a 'lightweight cheytac', i would suggest one of the .338 cheytac and/or improved versions such as the 338 snipetac, allen magnum, big baer etc. in a carbon laminate stock. Many of these have been built under 16lbs scoped.

Definately a "Single shot custom action" for accuracy and to save weight, too many to choose from and its impossible to say which is "best", many fine CNC actions will be ideal so im not going there...

30in barrel, longer would be nice but, again your looking to save weight so 30in is about as long as you need to get you to 2000yds comfortably. The projectile is another consideration in this system, and you would match the twist rate to this projectile. A 1:9 twist would give you many fine options of projectiles for both high BC solids and 300-325gr jacketed bullets such as the RMB, SMK or scenar etc. If you go super exotic custom bullets, you could go down to an 7-8twist for ultimate BC and long range superiority - but then you wont be able to ethically go hunting without expanding bullets or even shoot jacketed bullets as they will blow up...

Then you just need a damn fine scope on a 40MOA base to give you the elevation range needed. Again, many to choose from with at least 100MOA elevation range, all of them $$$, but the whole thing under $8.5k is certainly doable. NF 5.5x22 would be the cheapest, then premier reticles, then S&B PM2 etc etc, all good.

My rig fits your needs almost exactly, which is why i built it in the first place. The only thing that doesnt fit your needs is mine is a 375cheytac with a longer heavier barrel, so the weight is up there around 22lbs and is too heavy to carry around comfortably... but i like the weight in order to make shooting it more comfortable and steady. It shoots all distances upto 2000 with great accuracy.
IMG_0264.jpg

</div></div>

Thank you very much for the info and help. That is a beautiful rifle and I am jealous. In regards to going with something in that direction, I suppose my concerns are weight of rifle for portability, length of barrel for ergonomics, and recoil going in to 375 Cheytac, cuz I'd like to enjoy a day of shooting without getting too beat up.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Thats why i suggested the .338CT as opposed to the 375... less recoil and you can get away with making the rifle a bit lighter without getting smashed with recoil... a good muzzle brake helps here too. Look for the brakes that have plenty of "backward angled ports", not straight 90degrees left/right.

Like i said, many 338cheytacs have been built under 16lbs and are certainly capable of 2000yds with about the best accuracy you could hope for of ANY caliber at this distance. Many fine gunsmiths can build them for you, or you can build your own... ordering a prechambered barrel is easy when your working with a CNC action as everyone is the same and they can simply chamber and index it off the action blueprint...
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I'm wondering why 7WSM isn't in the mix.

.338 or .375 are quite a jump for someone who's never shot beyond 1000 yards.

I bet he could learn a lot with a 7WSM or some kind of .30 magnum.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

There is another slightly more exotic combination that would be very capable @ 2000yd...

Its a 338lapua case, improved, and necked down to 7mm, combined with the 7mm 200gr "wildcat bullets" projectile BC ~ .92. This will get you just get you there "just" aswell... perhaps also a 7mmRUM improved using same bullet. Barrel life sux tho... Would be a lighter weight alternative...

Theres not much else that will remain supersonic at 2000yds with a high enough BC to realistically shoot accurately in anything more than the slightest puff of wind... which puts most other caliber/bullet combinations out as far as im concerned...

 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Got to agree with this ! If you have never shot over 1000 yards the jump above there is certainly harder mostly due to your ability to read the conditions favorably and not wasting a shit load of dollars trying to run before you can walk -with respect I say that .I shot my first 1 kilometer 12 x12 inch target the other day with my 284 shehane 2908 fps 180 berger vld -great round to grow into and then progress.I used a target scope for this , sightron 10 x 50 power and watch my bullet land on the first shot and then altered and hit the next 5 in a row .Anyway hope you choose well
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wondering why 7WSM isn't in the mix.

.338 or .375 are quite a jump for someone who's never shot beyond 1000 yards.

I bet he could learn a lot with a 7WSM or some kind of .30 magnum.</div></div>

Hmmmmmm.... I already have a 7wsm custom rifle, its one of the rifles along with my 338 Lapua that I am considering selling to make this change. From everything I've read, learned, experienced and heard... I should be considering something in 338 Lapua or bigger. Just to clarify, I'm selling my existing 338 because its an AR30, and ergonomically doesn't work for me as a portable rifle.

Although I have a lot to learn, I'm pretty comfortable with ballistics and the dynamics that go into making accurate shots cold bore with calculations and dialing up my scope.

Like the rest of us, we've seen on (youtube) and "heard" of several shooters engaging up to 2000 yards on steel plates with 7wsm... but, simple math says those boys were in super ideal conditions and who knows how many shots it took to achieve their few hits. I kinda think the alloted 5 mph breeze in OP is enough to count out the 7wsm. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what you mean by .338 or .375 being a jump for someone never shooting past 1000 yards. I would think the steadier and more consistent calibers would be better for a rookie. Most ELR guys shooting smaller calibers are probably more experienced than the guys shooting larger calibers.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got to agree with this ! If you have never shot over 1000 yards the jump above there is certainly harder mostly due to your ability to read the conditions favorably and not wasting a shit load of dollars trying to run before you can walk -with respect I say that .I shot my first 1 kilometer 12 x12 inch target the other day with my 284 shehane 2908 fps 180 berger vld -great round to grow into and then progress.I used a target scope for this , sightron 10 x 50 power and watch my bullet land on the first shot and then altered and hit the next 5 in a row .Anyway hope you choose well</div></div>

Congrats on those shots, I'm excited to get to that stage soon myself.

I suppose you're right on the 'learning to run before walking' statement. I guess, I'm just super confidant in myself, coming from 30 years of multiple hobbies, and being a perfectionist,(really anal) and usually ending up in competition on a professional level with everything I do. I guess I simply expect myself to be capable of these shots. My first ever shots ever at 500 yards was a nice 2.5" group. I was hooked, and now I demand better.

I know I have a llllllllot to learn. Trust me I will stay humble.

I think the <span style="font-weight: bold">most important</span> thing for me would be knowing I have a <span style="font-weight: bold">capable combo of rifle and scope</span> that will be able to engage multiple ranges and targets, so that if any error, I know its me, <span style="font-weight: bold">not the equipment</span>. You guys have to appreciate that train of thought.
smile.gif
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got to agree with this ! If you have never shot over 1000 yards the jump above there is certainly harder mostly due to your ability to read the conditions favorably and not wasting a shit load of dollars trying to run before you can walk -with respect I say that .I shot my first 1 kilometer 12 x12 inch target the other day with my 284 shehane 2908 fps 180 berger vld -great round to grow into and then progress.I used a target scope for this , sightron 10 x 50 power and watch my bullet land on the first shot and then altered and hit the next 5 in a row .Anyway hope you choose well</div></div>

Congrats on those shots, I'm excited to get to that stage soon myself.

I suppose you're right on the 'learning to run before walking' statement. I guess, <span style="color: #FF0000">I'm just super confidant in myself, coming from 30 years of multiple hobbies, and being a perfectionist,(really anal) and usually ending up in competition on a professional level</span> with everything I do. I guess I simply expect myself to be capable of these shots. My first ever shots ever at 500 yards was a nice 2.5" group. I was hooked, and now I demand better.

I know I have a llllllllot to learn. Trust me I will stay humble.

I think the <span style="font-weight: bold">most important</span> thing for me would be knowing I have a <span style="font-weight: bold">capable combo of rifle and scope</span> that will be able to engage multiple ranges and targets, so that if any error, I know its me, <span style="font-weight: bold">not the equipment</span>. <span style="color: #FF0000">You guys have to appreciate that train of thought</span>.
smile.gif

</div></div>

Yes I do appreciate your belief in yourself and as important the passionate enthusiasm you display , this will cause you to spend alot of money believe me as I am the same -maybe I could do with a few more skills though !! lol
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Since Travis has already build you a rifle, why not ask his opinion.
I would be looking at a #16 338-408 Cheytac all scoped up.
Single shot Bat action model M
30" barrel 1.350 for 5" taper to 1.10" at 7" then taper to .90 @30"
Mcmillan A5 supermag stock
This should put you at about 12 1/2-13# with out optics.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since Travis has already build you a rifle, why not ask his opinion.
I would be looking at a #16 338-408 Cheytac all scoped up.
Single shot Bat action model M
30" barrel 1.350 for 5" taper to 1.10" at 7" then taper to .90 @30"
Mcmillan A5 supermag stock
This should put you at about 12 1/2-13# with out optics.
</div></div>

I kinda know Travis' answer. 338 Edge, and I am still seriously considering that.
I'm diligently doing homework on Snipetac and Cheytac in 338 and 375.

I haven't heard any feedback on optics. ????

Did the thread get a lil off track? Or is it common knowledge that all the upper end Nightforce, USO, S&B, lets say $2000 and above, scopes, all are perfectly capable of the repeatability and return to zero that I laid out in my shooting scenarios?
If so, great, lets keep talkin rifles and caliber.

If not, any feedback on optics would be great.

Am I going to be on track with my NF 5.5-22x50? Will it dial up these huge moa settings, dial back down, and be on zero? I suppose I can test that for myself, but I would really appreciate some feedback.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Stick with the 7WSM... I have shot mine to 1997yards, I saw Jeff Badley first round hit with his at that distance as well. The 7WSM is a game winner any way you look at it. It's a great competition rifle, and will hold to ELR.

The 7WSM is the best all around solution. Most places that let you shoot that far are well above sea level so the altitude helps a lot. Mine is a 1/4MOA rifle at 100, and is not uncomfortable to shoot. That helps, because inside 1000 yards recoil is going to kick your ass, and nobody around you is going to like it either. I have seen people successfully use the 338 and believe it is the best all around sniping round, but your not sniping. It's a fight for most inside 1000.

Stick with a NF, you should be thinking realistic and not basing your decision on a maybe down the road. Confidence or anything else... makes you sound a bit silly to be honest.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stick with the 7WSM... I have shot mine to 1997yards, I saw Jeff Badley first round hit with his at that distance as well. The 7WSM is a game winner any way you look at it. It's a great competition rifle, and will hold to ELR.

The 7WSM is the best all around solution. Most places that let you shoot that far are well above sea level so the altitude helps a lot. Mine is a 1/4MOA rifle at 100, and is not uncomfortable to shoot. That helps, because inside 1000 yards recoil is going to kick your ass, and nobody around you is going to like it either. I have seen people successfully use the 338 and believe it is the best all around sniping round, but your not sniping. It's a fight for most inside 1000.

Stick with a NF, you should be thinking realistic and not basing your decision on a maybe down the road. Confidence or anything else... makes you sound a bit silly to be honest. </div></div>

Lowlight,
Can you give me a little more data on your 7WSM load, I've been hearing good things about the 7WSM and may build one. I am a 7mm fan and have a 7mmRM and 7STW Krieger,NF, McMillan, Jewell. I mostly shoot benchrest and have concentrated on Berger, still looking for seating depth and powder combos to get 1/4 MOA. Primers?, Powder?, seating depth?, Brass? neck tension?, twist rate? Thanks!!!
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I just run the 175gr Load at 2900 even, George and Jeff run the 180s around 3050fps...

My ammo is loaded from Cor Bon, it's GAPs load. I don't have time to reload myself, so Cor Bon does it. If you look several years in a row during the open class ASC matches the 7s ruled the top spots.

To the OP..

What you really want is a Desert Tactical so you can switch barrels / calibers / with one rifle with one scope. Mix and match as necessary... because really - rereading it, it sounds like the intro to one of those videos people make.

<span style="font-style: italic">I want one rifle that shoots to 2000 yards is small and mobile for hunting but big enough to reach a mile, not expensive, because I am on a budget. I want a 375, or a 408 but want to shoot at 100 yards with it because I never shot past 1000 yards.</span>

Seriously - did you read what you wrote ? You do know what those big long range calibers cost to shoot and how much rifle it takes to sling them properly, right ?
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stick with the 7WSM... I have shot mine to 1997yards, I saw Jeff Badley first round hit with his at that distance as well. The 7WSM is a game winner any way you look at it. It's a great competition rifle, and will hold to ELR.

The 7WSM is the best all around solution. Most places that let you shoot that far are well above sea level so the altitude helps a lot. Mine is a 1/4MOA rifle at 100, and is not uncomfortable to shoot. That helps, because inside 1000 yards recoil is going to kick your ass, and nobody around you is going to like it either. I have seen people successfully use the 338 and believe it is the best all around sniping round, but your not sniping. It's a fight for most inside 1000.

Stick with a NF, you should be thinking realistic and not basing your decision on a maybe down the road. Confidence or anything else... makes you sound a bit silly to be honest. </div></div>

Coming from you(i've read a lot of your posts), I take what you have to offer very seriously, and sticking with 7wsm just might be best for me(but still undecided). Its not until I get this type of feedback, that I begin to start putting it all together, and I appreciate you taking the time to help get me in the right direction.

Even if all I get out of this is ruling out other calibers and optics, just so I have heard it from professionals with ton more experience than me, that I should just stick with my 7wsm.

I suppose the kool-aid of larger calibers, and some of my mentors, locally, preaching 338 etc, has driven me to question my equipment... hence my OP
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I think people are reading this post in many different ways.
I have not posted on this subject not only because my limited knowledge on a few of these subjects but because i had to read the thread 3 times to really see where the OP was coming from.
smile.gif


as the OP stated:

(Does this combo exist? If so, do you have one? Can you perform the above with it? Or close?

Is this unrealistic?)
***********************************************************
Groper seems to be on track....


I also am interested to see what combos people are putting together that can perform these same test.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just run the 175gr Load at 2900 even, George and Jeff run the 180s around 3050fps...

My ammo is loaded from Cor Bon, it's GAPs load. I don't have time to reload myself, so Cor Bon does it. If you look several years in a row during the open class ASC matches the 7s ruled the top spots.

To the OP..

What you really want is a Desert Tactical so you can switch barrels / calibers / with one rifle with one scope. Mix and match as necessary... because really - rereading it, it sounds like the intro to one of those videos people make.

<span style="font-style: italic">I want one rifle that shoots to 2000 yards is small and mobile for hunting but big enough to reach a mile, not expensive, because I am on a budget. I want a 375, or a 408 but want to shoot at 100 yards with it because I never shot past 1000 yards.</span>

Seriously - did you read what you wrote ? You do know what those big long range calibers cost to shoot and how much rifle it takes to sling them properly, right ? </div></div>

I've considered the DTA system, I think I just want to stick with one caliber though.

Just to be clear:
I never said I wanted a 'small' rifle.
I never said 'not expensive, because I'm on a budget'(hardly the case)I clearly stated my budget in my OP.
I never said 'I want a 375 or 408'.

I did re-read what I wrote, and I admit its confusing. I'm fairly educated in how much ammo, rifle and equipment will cost. I'm currently spending $6-$7 per round in my 338LM, cuz I dont have time to reload either. I have more money invested in firearms than some have spent on their kids tuition. But, I'm trying to thin the herd, and focus more on ELR.

oh, and my 7wsm load is 180 Berger VLD Hunting, 69g H1000 at 2990FPS and it too is 1/4 moa. I'm not yet, but the rifle is
smile.gif


Sounds like I need to get off my butt this weekend(weather permitting) and get out past 1000yds with either my 7wsm or 338, simply to eliminate the "you haven't shot past 1000 yards yet'.

I'm sure I'll be humbled, but ya never know...
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

you might try some of the custom bullets in your 338 . if your barrel will handle the lighter high bc. bullets you might have what your looking for already . my plain jane 338 edge shooting 300 gr bergers looks to have the ability to do this , but im still working on the shooter end .
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Just to be clear:
I never said I wanted a 'small' rifle.
I never said 'not expensive, because I'm on a budget'(hardly the case)I clearly stated my budget in my OP.
I never said 'I want a 375 or 408'.

</div></div>

You sort of said all of that...

1. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’d also like the rifle to be mobile, and usable for hunting, so the heavier rifles are out, such as most Barrets, EDM, most 50 cals, etc..</div></div>

Mobile and Hunting implies a size requirement as well you are ruling out things like the Barrett 98b, or 416.

2. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The above four items can not add up to more than $8500 combined.</div></div>

That is not an expensive budget for such a rifle, you want a wonder rifle at just over $5k, what if someone recommended a S&B 5-25X there is $3k of your budget gone. $10k combo is more realistic An AW Magnum is more than $7k, rifle alone.

3. You keep coming back to things like the .375 and stuff like the Chey Tac, yet, to be competitive inside 1000 yards the recoil will beat you up, regardless... ELR guys aren't shooting the volume of rounds necessary to be competitive any where else, but for themselves.

Sure a $8.5K combo is doable, but you're gonna sacrifice one side or the other doing it, you either want an ELR rifle or you want a competitive rifle, having both means compromising. One rifle to hunt with, ELR with, general shooting with ? I honestly don't see you dragging a wildcat around with a 30" barrel, that is as far from "mobile' as it gets. Guys who are competitive with a 338 are using a Suppressed 20" model, you're in CA, no suppressors to make it comfortable and again, what line you gonna compete on with a .375 when every one else is shooting 260s, or close to that.

Further more...

5MPH real world ?

What real world is that ? Places to shoot ELR have high winds, they are in the mountains. Heck the Bash was this Month they shot in 18MPH + winds, Rifles Only averages 12MPH to 16MPH according to Wind Finder Pro. I have been to Sac Valley, they have much stronger winds than 5 MPH.

Not to punch holes in your dreams, just adding some much needed realism to the out loud thoughts. Unless you have access to NV BLM land on a weekly basis, which you might, still, there are target considerations, 300s and 338s kill steel. Which means you need to set up beyond 500 for it to last.

Knowing the dollar value and understanding the dollar value, two different things, especially if you dont' reload. ELR pretty much demands it.

Shooting a 338 At 1000 is, for me the same as shooting my 308 at 500, I find it pretty close to equal... so it's not a great feat, but honestly it sounds to me you need two rifles... the 7WSM and the 338LM you have already are fine.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I know what Tom Sarver can do with a .300 Hulk, and all of the above would fall well within what he has demonstrated.

1.403" 5 Shot Group at 1,000 yards

Tom300.jpg


I have seen Tom and Karl shooting their 300 Hulks at TVP and to say they do well at ranges out to 1 mile would be an understatement.

Hopefully the .300 Hulk will become more “mainstream” in 2011. I know Tom is working on a number of avenues trying to get the brass, rifles, and supporting loading equipment available “commercially”.

Also know Tom is planning on doing some "Extreme Long Range Shooting" at TVP in 2011.

Tom posts here, not sure if he will jump in.

If the .300 Hulk is too exotic for your likings, then on the “low end” you could look at the 7mm WSM as pointed out by others. That round has been doing some serious damage in the 1,000 yard F-Class matches. Pushing it out to 2,000 yards will be on the upper extremes of the performance range, but it is possible with the correct rifle and load.

I hate to say it, but there is this saying that goes “jack of all, master of none”. As pointed out, you have come up with a pretty tall order, and chances are while you may succeed in one area you will have to accept some compromise in another.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

It sounds like you already have what is required to do what you ask. Use the 7 WSM to hunt and compete and the .338 Lapua for your long range needs if you're feeling the 7 isn't adequate. If you absolutely have to have a new rifle go buy the DTA SRS in .338 for 5k and just put your NF with a 40 MOA set of rings. Then you can get new barrels made in whatever caliber you want with a simple bolt, barrel and magazine swap. However that's money you could just as easily spend to start reloading for your existing rifles.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

100_0920.jpg


The TVP .300 Hulk CS Rifle. 18.5 MOA to 1000 yards and 54 MOA to a mile from a 100 yard zero with a Berger 210 VLD. It holds more than one long range accuracy titles. It will get the job done without a doubt. The 7 WSM or the .338 LM would be my only other choices for what your asking for. Go with a single shot and forget for many reasons.
Having the experience I have if had had one rifle to choose for shooting from 100 yards to 1800 it would be the .260 rem. For distance and percentage of those distances shot it takes the title. Shooting from 1500 to 2000 yards is a huge skill set from other distances such as 500 to 1200. 2000 yards is less than 1% of most shooters shooting. But it's nice to have the capability. So, if you have to have that then the .300 Hulk, .300 Norma mag .338 LM and or the 7 wsm. But from experience the 7 WSM wont hang with the others out to a CERTAIN point no matter what the computer says the numbers are or how good it looks on paper. I hope to have a 7 wsm as a TVP demo rifle in 2011 so our customers can demo the few rifle/cartridge combos that are truely capable of holding the title of ELR precision rigs.

100B0850-1.jpg
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stick with the 7WSM... </div></div>

Frank has a lot more experience than I do... but I thought the same thing as I read this thread.

If you have a 7WSM... go with the momentum.

These "smaller" rifles are very capable. The first time I shot over a mile was with my 13 lb. 22" 300WM and it had a cheap Falcon Menace 4-14 on it at the time. We engaged steel plates from 100 yds to 1900 yds on the same day... all in gusting 15-20 mph wind. The plates under 800 yds. were 6"-10" rounds. The longer plates were torsos and the 1900 was a 36" round.

Shooting 208 Amax's, the 300 was a first round hit probably 90% of the time. Second round 100%.

I've dabbled out to 2300 yds. and been very impressed at the capability of this underrated caliber. And from I understand from the guys shooting 7's they are just *that* much flatter and better in the wind.

I've shot with guys who have .338LM's (IF they shoot 300 grs... The WM will keep right up if they shoot 250's) and 375CT's and yes, they are in another league. But for portability, flexibility and economy, I'll take my WM for the 100-2000 yd rifle.

John
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

100_0914.jpg


Specs: TVP .300 Hulk CSPR

Surgeon XL Single Shot .338 LM bolt face specs KMW Bolt Knob
30" Lawton SS 1/10 twist
Terry Cross Single Shot Sentinal Combat Stock with HD KMW T/G
Jewel Trigger set at one pound
N/F 5.5-22x56mm HSZS NPR-1
Berger 210 @ 3350 fps
240 SMK @ 3050 fps
208 Amax @ 3375 fps
All loads are under 20 moa at 1000 yards and under 53 moa at one mile and produces sub .5 MOA accuracy.
100% bad ass!
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Tom,

Problem is, he doesn't reload... plus what is the barrel life with the Hulk ?

So, for factory fair, 7WSM, 162gr for hunting get custom loaded ammo from Cor Bon and you are on the way.

The more i shoot the 300WM, the more i like what it can do with less, but if you already had the 7WSM, it's a no brainer. Factory ammo, plus a company that already knows how to load it.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tom,

Problem is, he doesn't reload... </div></div>

I missed this part too. That'll really put a crimp in your style.

John
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

part of it too, Tom is under 1000 ft so a lot of things people see at altitude won't work where he is... we see the same thing at RO, which is only at 78ft above sea level. Yet I can go home and go to other place and being above 5000ft we can get away with a lot more.

I think you guys are at 4000+ so you also see the benefits, others don't have that luxury.

The 1997 yard 7WSM shots were at 5300ft, at sea level 1760+ is asking for a lot.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Lowlight,

Hulk barrel life seems to be 1500-2500 rounds depending what bullet we use most. Sub quarter up to about 700- 1000 rounds then it will open up a little but still below 1 moa past 1500.
Yes, the draw back is you have to hand load. When I went to Idaho on the recent elk hunt the elevation was around 7000-7500 ft. My .338 LM shot a FULL 10 MOA flatter at 1800 yards there compared to our elevation here of around 1000. Believe me, I was grinning ear to ear. At night, my hunting buddy and I were shooting milk jugs in complete darkness at 1800+ yards with PVS27 night vision scopes and our suprpressed rifles with again 10+ moa less drop than here at home. Even in at that great distance we could hear the bullet hit the jugs filled with water and impact the ground with a great thud, and we could also see our misses!
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

Also, I see a trend of shooters who want to go bigger. Bigger to me is for a special purpose or reason. Not the main focus or reason why we shoot. The .300 win mag and even the .300 WSM are over looked a lot. Being blessed to own and operate TVP I have countless of customers who show up having no idea there .300 Win. mag will shoot a mile. Then after a few spotters they are there and amazed how well they do with a rifle they are ready to trade in for a .338 LM or something even bigger.
Lowlight is correct about the 7WSM and if your in high alt. you have it made even more. That's why I like the .260 Rem so much.
It will get me from 100-1800 yards accurately and efficiently with ok barrel life. I drag the Hulk out if I'm going to shoot 1500 to 2000 and the .338 LM with 300 gr. Scenars if I'm shooting from 1500-2500 yards.
All in all it's hard to beat the .300 WM because of the supply of ammo out there and its great long range performance. Most of the time there is no reason to go bigger if you already own one.
Just tweek it and tune it and put a good longrange scope/base on it and away you go!
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I see a trend of shooters who want to go bigger. Bigger to me is for a special purpose or reason. Not the main focus or reason why we shoot. The .300 win mag and even the .300 WSM are over looked a lot. Being blessed to own and operate TVP I have countless of customers who show up having no idea there .300 Win. mag will shoot a mile. Then after a few spotters they are there and amazed how well they do with a rifle they are ready to trade in for a .338 LM or something even bigger.
Lowlight is correct about the 7WSM and if your in high alt. you have it made even more. <span style="color: #FF0000">That's why I like the .260 Rem so much.
It will get me from 100-1800 yards accurately and efficiently with ok barrel life</span>. I drag the Hulk out if I'm going to shoot 1500 to 2000 and the .338 LM with 300 gr. Scenars if I'm shooting from 1500-2500 yards.
All in all it's hard to beat the .300 WM because of the supply of ammo out there and its great long range performance. Most of the time there is no reason to go bigger if you already own one.
Just tweek it and tune it and put a good longrange scope/base on it and away you go! </div></div>

Just curious about what load specs (and rifle specs) you are running for that?
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

I shoot 100 to 1500 meters with the same rifle, so I could maybe help you a little.

Specs of my combo are below :

Surgeon XL SS action 30 MOA base
.338 LM 10" twist Border barrel, 28" lenght with Badger breake
Mc Millan Mc Hale stock
NXS 5.5-22 x 56 NPR 2 scope

300 Scenar @ 2700 f/s

I have had sub 1/2 MOA groups up to 800 meters, and sub MOA groups up to 1200 meters consistently. No problems also to hit a 2 MOA target at 1500 meters in good conditions. ( I shoot prone with a versa pod, without rear bag )

My barrel is just died now ( 2500 rounds ), and I will replace it by a 32" lenght to add some velocity and have less drop at long range.
I'll also replace the NXS by a Premier 5-25.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">part of it too...

...you guys are at 4000+ so you also see the benefits, others don't have that luxury. </div></div>

You raise a valid point, Frank. I often take that for granted.

Maybe I, like Bryan, need a disclaimer in my sig, "I shoot at 4000' ASL, so take my outrageous claims with a grain of salt."
wink.gif


And OP can always shoot from the top of Mt. Tam or Mt. Diablo and duplicate my results.
grin.gif


John
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Just to be clear:
I never said I wanted a 'small' rifle.
I never said 'not expensive, because I'm on a budget'(hardly the case)I clearly stated my budget in my OP.
I never said 'I want a 375 or 408'.

</div></div>

You sort of said all of that...

1. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’d also like the rifle to be mobile, and usable for hunting, so the heavier rifles are out, such as most Barrets, EDM, most 50 cals, etc..</div></div>

Mobile and Hunting implies a size requirement as well you are ruling out things like the Barrett 98b, or 416.

2. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The above four items can not add up to more than $8500 combined.</div></div>

That is not an expensive budget for such a rifle, you want a wonder rifle at just over $5k, what if someone recommended a S&B 5-25X there is $3k of your budget gone. $10k combo is more realistic An AW Magnum is more than $7k, rifle alone.

3. You keep coming back to things like the .375 and stuff like the Chey Tac, yet, to be competitive inside 1000 yards the recoil will beat you up, regardless... ELR guys aren't shooting the volume of rounds necessary to be competitive any where else, but for themselves.

Sure a $8.5K combo is doable, but you're gonna sacrifice one side or the other doing it, you either want an ELR rifle or you want a competitive rifle, having both means compromising. One rifle to hunt with, ELR with, general shooting with ? I honestly don't see you dragging a wildcat around with a 30" barrel, that is as far from "mobile' as it gets. Guys who are competitive with a 338 are using a Suppressed 20" model, you're in CA, no suppressors to make it comfortable and again, what line you gonna compete on with a .375 when every one else is shooting 260s, or close to that.

Further more...

5MPH real world ?

What real world is that ? Places to shoot ELR have high winds, they are in the mountains. Heck the Bash was this Month they shot in 18MPH + winds, Rifles Only averages 12MPH to 16MPH according to Wind Finder Pro. I have been to Sac Valley, they have much stronger winds than 5 MPH.

Not to punch holes in your dreams, just adding some much needed realism to the out loud thoughts. Unless you have access to NV BLM land on a weekly basis, which you might, still, there are target considerations, 300s and 338s kill steel. Which means you need to set up beyond 500 for it to last.

Knowing the dollar value and understanding the dollar value, two different things, especially if you dont' reload. ELR pretty much demands it.

Shooting a 338 At 1000 is, for me the same as shooting my 308 at 500, I find it pretty close to equal... so it's not a great feat, but honestly it sounds to me you need two rifles... the 7WSM and the 338LM you have already are fine. </div></div>

As far as the wind goes, we have been in some pretty dead calm days(in between storms) with little to no wind. My shooting partner has 600 acres at 750' above sea level. We have a canyon that is exactly 1200 yards inside the canyon. We have several spots we've scouted out for up to 2000 yards. It does get windy in the summer though. We also have Panoche and Tummey Hills, BLM land with thousands of acres, it's 1.5 hour drive.

I should clarify my reloading situation. I do reload, but only for my 7wsm. I have not purchased or put in any of the time to reload or research loads for my 338LM,(I dont even have the dies for 338) hence my earlier comment that I don't have time to reload 338lm. I am starting to see, that if I make a jump to another caliber that reloading is highly recommended.

Part of my reasoning to start this thread was to get away from two rifles, two scopes, two sets of notes and dope. I agree, my 7wsm and 338lm are probably great for what I want to do, if I want two rifles. But I want to streamline and have one.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being blessed to own and operate TVP I have countless of customers who show up having no idea there .300 Win. mag will shoot a mile. </div></div>
Tom,

Have you shot the Mk248 Mod1 round at ELR?

Impressions?
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing.

I have shot the Mk248 Mod1 to 1250yard at sea level under less than desirable conditions, ie: a bit cold. Not ELR but for sea level, pretty good.

It's solid, beats the snot out of the 190gr military load. We had good results downrange.

300wm.jpg


All 220gr brass...
300wmbrass.jpg
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

100_0286.jpg


Specs for TVP .260 Rem
Surgeon 591R KMW Bolt Knob
Kreiger 8 twist SS 29" tube
Terry Cross Sentinel Combat Stock/ KMW BM
Jewel Trigger HVR set at 1 lb.
N/F 5.5-22x56 NPR-1 HSZS
Norma Brass
Fed 210 primer
142 SMK @ 2904 fps with dedicated Tiger Shark Suppressor
42.5 Grains of H-4350
27.5 moa to 1000 yards from 100 yard zero
73 moa to 1740 yards
Please watch YouTube videos of TVP customers shooting their new .260 rems exact spec to one mile.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing.

No sir I have personally not but I hear good things about it and the ammo. I have clients scheduled in 2011 where the gents will be trainng her with them at TVP, I suppose I will get my chance then.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
100_0920.jpg


The TVP .300 Hulk CS Rifle. 18.5 MOA to 1000 yards and 54 MOA to a mile from a 100 yard zero with a Berger 210 VLD. It holds more than one long range accuracy titles. It will get the job done without a doubt. The 7 WSM or the .338 LM would be my only other choices for what your asking for. Go with a single shot and forget for many reasons.
Having the experience I have if had had one rifle to choose for shooting from 100 yards to 1800 it would be the .260 rem. For distance and percentage of those distances shot it takes the title. Shooting from 1500 to 2000 yards is a huge skill set from other distances such as 500 to 1200. 2000 yards is less than 1% of most shooters shooting. But it's nice to have the capability. So, if you have to have that then the .300 Hulk, .300 Norma mag .338 LM and or the 7 wsm. But from experience the 7 WSM wont hang with the others out to a CERTAIN point no matter what the computer says the numbers are or how good it looks on paper. I hope to have a 7 wsm as a TVP demo rifle in 2011 so our customers can demo the few rifle/cartridge combos that are truely capable of holding the title of ELR precision rigs.

100B0850-1.jpg
</div></div>

Tom,

Thank you for chiming in here and taking the time to share. Your rifle and equipment is top notch. I gather that even with the great ballistics of the 7wsm, that it still isnt going to hang with the likes of, lets say 338lm, in ELR.

My instinct tells me I want to build a custom in 338 Lapua or Edge. Start reloading(make the time), because of accuracy and economics. I should be able to match my above scenario 100-lets say 1200 yards. I'm willing to lower my expectations(from 2000), and concentrate on being realistic, since its been commonly agreed that some sacrifices will be made in having ONE rifle. I will spend most of my time 1200 and in. But, knowing I can reach out past 1200 if I want to, helps justify the sacrifice.

Since nobody has really answered one of my questions from the OP... Have you had success, engaging multiple targets at different and random ranges, lets just say 100-1200, all with dial up, and for the most part been on target, and back to zero? This might be more of a optics question... ????
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

If your scope can't repeat what is the point ?

It needs to work that way, it can't work any other... if it doesn't sent it in and get it fixed. Nobody answered that because, that is what scopes do.
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extreme454</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since nobody has really answered one of my questions from the OP... Have you had success, engaging multiple targets at different and random ranges, lets just say 100-1200, all with dial up, and for the most part been on target, and back to zero? This might be more of a optics question... ????</div></div>

I thought I did answer this.

Yes. On many different occasions both with a Falcon Menace 4-14 and a Vortex Razor HD 5-20. Both tracked very well, and returned to zero perfectly. If there was a first round miss, it was a wind hold issue. Dope was spot on and the rifle never fails to perform.

John
 
Re: Best 100-2000 yards? see scenario, Intriguing...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARMECA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot 100 to 1500 meters with the same rifle, so I could maybe help you a little.

Specs of my combo are below :

Surgeon XL SS action 30 MOA base
.338 LM 10" twist Border barrel, 28" lenght with Badger breake
Mc Millan Mc Hale stock
NXS 5.5-22 x 56 NPR 2 scope

300 Scenar @ 2700 f/s

I have had sub 1/2 MOA groups up to 800 meters, and sub MOA groups up to 1200 meters consistently. No problems also to hit a 2 MOA target at 1500 meters in good conditions. ( I shoot prone with a versa pod, without rear bag )

My barrel is just died now ( 2500 rounds ), and I will replace it by a 32" lenght to add some velocity and have less drop at long range.
I'll also replace the NXS by a Premier 5-25. </div></div>

2500 rounds ! That's more than I would have expected.
What twist will you go with on the new 32" barrel?
Premier over the NF? Any particular reasons?
 
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