I miss the blemished phosphate PSA bolt carrier groups that were like 60$
Why do you guys hold JP as a good bolt? I've only seen 4 bolts break in my life and they were all JP's. I use to be big into 3 gun before covid and 2 of my old friends had JP rifles and they both broke the bolts in half. One guy had it happen twice and I know these guys use good oil and take care of their stuff. The other guy I didn't know but all 4 of these happened right in front of me in my squad.
RCA makes the nitrided BCG's for sure & at one time Noveske even mentioned that on their website.
Not sure about the phosphated ones............but I doubt that RCA makes those as they offer no phos on any of their own line.
MM
This is my recommendation based on my own experience as well as what I've discovered from professional opinions.
The Palmetto State Armoury Fathers of Freedom, which Microbest sells for $100, is the best affordable BCG. None of their others, but just the fathers of freedom bcg.
BCM, SOLGW, Daniel defense, and colt are the best overall. Others exist. These are all between $180 and $200. Their high pressure testing is the primary distinction between them and the PSA Fathers of Freedom.
The Palmetto State Armoury Fathers of Freedom, which Microbest sells for $100, is the best affordable BCG. None of their others, but just the fathers of freedom bcg.
BCM, SOLGW, Daniel defense, and colt are the best overall. Others exist. These are all between $180 and $200. Their high pressure testing is the primary distinction between them and the PSA Fathers of Freedom.
Im not too familiar with the fathers of freedom version of the MB bcg’s but the following two are HPT, MPI, and have upgraded internals for way less than $180.
MicroBest Phosphate+ BCG (has sprinco springs & OKS screws) ($92) or MicroBest Premium All Chrome BCG (has sprinco springs and OKS screws) ($120)
The extra jump from ~$100 to $180 is mostly for the name/branding/marketing costs for the name brands. As @Cascade Hemi has pointed out I highly doubt these companies are doing that much extra stuff to these bcg’s to justify nearly doubling the OEM price
Yes, I think the chrome microbest there is probably the best buy on the market, value wise... Either one of them, really....
The Midwest Optics link is an awesome deal. If you don't care about the screws or phosphate parts, AR15Discounts has the all chrome BCGs for a little less. The all chrome example I have is perfect and would not benefit from OCKS screws. That said, I ordered another Microbest chrome BCG from your link. Thanks.
Never heard of them but the specs seem solid for the price! Some folks may not like the 9310 material in the bolt but that’s personal preference.
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These people are the makers of the Demco Dogbone upper, if you might have heard about those... They also make other things occasionally on military contract... I know they've made a bunch of charging handles, and they have occasionally filled contracts for bcgs<<<edit, carriers only>> They typically fill small orders/contracts... Their dog bone upper is clone correct for urgi... After a certain year... They also supposedly have had a bolt contract... And ambi selector contract... I'm probably missing something.
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I’ve owned a few of their FAL rifles and well as one AR. My experience has been 100% positive. Very well made rifles at an incredibly fair price.
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I have MicroBest C158 Chrome BCG in my 18" Mk12 type AR, and a Wilson Combat Nitride BCG in my 16" Rifle.
For spares I have an AO Precision C158 Nitride, and Griffin Armament Enhanced C158 QPQ BCG both new in wrap.
I have no problem with any of them.
For spares I have an AO Precision C158 Nitride, and Griffin Armament Enhanced C158 QPQ BCG both new in wrap.
I have no problem with any of them.
Just grabbed one of these for a build…holy smokes these are great value for the $$$.
midwestoptics.net
$126 with shipping and tax!!
Shop Microbest BCG+ Chrome w Phosphate Extractor OCKS C158 HPT/MPI 5.56 Bolt Carrier Group | Midwest Optics
The Microbest BCG has been designed from the ground up with the most avid shooters in mind, using only the best materials available on the market today. The
midwestoptics.net
$126 with shipping and tax!!
Oh that's great. If been battling with myself about buying that contract toolcraft/Colt BCG I was talking about... It's 136$ out the door... It would be for my next build, my URG-I build.... But anyways, check out what I found yesterday.... I think this thing is neat. $20 out the door for me.....Just grabbed one of these for a build…holy smokes these are great value for the $$$.
Shop Microbest BCG+ Chrome w Phosphate Extractor OCKS C158 HPT/MPI 5.56 Bolt Carrier Group | Midwest Optics
The Microbest BCG has been designed from the ground up with the most avid shooters in mind, using only the best materials available on the market today. The
$126 with shipping and tax!!
View attachment 8694473
AR-15 Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) Case
The BCG Caddy is a compact, lightweight (roughly 3.7 ounces total), tough, and water resistant storage solution for AR-15 Bolt Carrier Groups. It works with all Mil-Spec BCGs for .223, 5.56, and 300 BLK chamberings. Store your BCGs in your safe, range bag, or spare parts pin without worry about...
thehobbyprinter.com
Nice, cant really go wrong with microbest or toolcraft.Oh that's great. If been battling with myself about buying that contract toolcraft/Colt BCG I was talking about... It's 136$ out the door... It would be for my next build, my URG-I build.... But anyways, check out what I found yesterday.... I think this thing is neat. $20 out the door for me.....
AR-15 Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) Case
The BCG Caddy is a compact, lightweight (roughly 3.7 ounces total), tough, and water resistant storage solution for AR-15 Bolt Carrier Groups. It works with all Mil-Spec BCGs for .223, 5.56, and 300 BLK chamberings. Store your BCGs in your safe, range bag, or spare parts pin without worry about...thehobbyprinter.com
Re: the caddy its a neat idea but Id rather just use a ziplock bag
Microbest Mil-Spec C158 HPT/MPI 5.56 Bolt Carrier Group - Phosphate/Chrome-Lined
The Microbest BCG has been designed from the ground up with the most avid shooters in mind, using only the best materials available on the market today. The
ar15discounts.com
Why do you think that one is better than this one, other than being $5 cheaper?Microbest Mil-Spec C158 HPT/MPI 5.56 Bolt Carrier Group - Phosphate/Chrome-Lined
The Microbest BCG has been designed from the ground up with the most avid shooters in mind, using only the best materials available on the market today. The
MM
AO Mag Phos BCG
I mean it's up to you but that's basically 5$ extra for the same thing
I have a soft spot for AO Precision for some reason... I have no idea why. The thought of those just make me feel warm and fuzzy for some reason.
I just got this one:
Combo BCG
I mentioned this one the other day... As it turns out I couldn't resist. It was on sale in cart. I asked where the completion kit came from, meaning the firing pin, cam pin. Retaining pin; but he didn't answer... It going into a clone.
They're probably all coming down the same conveyor belt and the colt mil ones get the fancy packaging while the ones headed for palmetto get tossed in 5gallon buckets.
PSA owns Toolcraft so I'd imagine they do
I remember when Arfcommers were paying 200+ dollars for those toolcrafts in the bag with the mil stuff written on it
Well they might... But People don't seem to understand that chain of custody with the .mil parts, and the sourcing, testing and proving that goes along with it; number one.... Number two, And it's a lot to type...but I'll abbreviate it...
The other day when I mentioned the term metallurgy, and User 45 70 said no, it's all the same metal, and it all follows the same recipe.... And instead of going back and forth with him, I just said yeah you're mostly right, I used the wrong term... But not really... You know there are something like 1,500 foundries left in the US.... some of them DO do things better than others..... And there are different grades of a particular alloy... And actually, after treatment and after processes are in fact part of the metallurgy... Some alloys & their uses depend on the after treatments to make them what they are -or- what they're known to be... And so those after treatments are where the magic happens...
So just like any other OEM... Well, let me say it like this, an OEM is nothing more than a gigantic Job Shop... And they tool up and gear up for certain runs that go to certain companies, that may have certain requirements or certain criteria or certain levels of supervision involved that may not be involved in other places... This is exactly why one tool craft may have tool marks and another one bearing the name of another "manufacturer" might not...
And like I say, it's about the chain of custody. That's not the exact correct term... But the term is escaping me right now... But... I bought this one not for a specific fighting rifle or SHTF rifle, or because it does anything that a standard microbest/ao precision/Toolcraft won't... I bought it because it will fit my future clone build...
But there again, this carrier is stamped with Toolcraft's CAGE code... And that means something. The bolt is marked with MPC... And that means something.. it's not just simply marking a part, just cause... It's basically the manufacturer putting their signature on a contract..., saying that such and such has been done, in such and such way... It is their marking, signifying that they did what they were supposed to.
Despite how close they may be in nature... I promise you. I would choose this mutt BCG to carry into a prolonged conflict over a PSA -or- BCA, any day of the week.... Now, maybe I've been suckered in by the hype... Or, maybe I'm institutionalized... But it's funny how to a Keen eye, you can always just 'tell' the difference... It's almost like you could feel the difference.
For the same price as the AO you can get a microbest with OKS screws and sprinco springs in the bolt. Id say that gives it a slight edge but to each their own.
Microbest BCG OCKS C158 HPT/MPI 5.56 BCG for Sale - Midwest Optics
Explore our selection of microbest 5.56 BCG for sale, including chrome and phosphate options. Upgrade your rifle with precision and reliability.
midwestoptics.net
That looks ass-backwards to me...............
Coefficient of Friction (COF) is a major reason for coating BC's & in descending order of COF is DLC, PVD, NP3 (a form of NiB) Chrome, & lastly, manganese phosphate.
So all else being equal (bore for gas rings, outside contact dimensions of the carrier, fit / seal of the gas rings), the friction, or lack thereof, of the carrier plays a significant role in "gas efficiency"................whatever that term is intended to define.
This can also be determined somewhat subjectively, by "feeling" the difference in "smoothness" of various BC's when cycling the BCG by hand. The absolute smoothness of feel for me has been a JP lightweight BCG, but that may be in a great part the design, followed by DLC...............other stuff, including chrome (although I like it a lot), just doesn't cycle as smoothly.
Additionally, I really have to look at OCKS screws with a jaundiced eye as far as being any kind of efficiency improvement or even reliability component................a correctly sealed (with Permatex), unstaked gas key has been completely reliable for me whenever I've used that method, as defined & described by Young Manufacturing (Dan Young DOES know a thing or 2 about AR's) has been 100% reliable. Dan Young on Staking Gas Keys
In fact, he clearly stated (at the time) that they would not warrant staked gas keys / carriers, installed that way by the builder.
Also, where is the info coming from as to what sellers are using what actual part manufacturers, such as Microbest or Toolcraft (who only makes carrieres)? The only seller that I have ever seen to acknowledge who is making a given part is Noveske, who has actually stated the RCA was the maker of their nitrided BCG's.........don't know if that is still the case anymore though. But I have never seen any public acknowledgement from anyone else.
MM
I've seen another coating from DS Arms, called nickel phosphate... I wonder what that's about...and how it compares in long term use.
If you watch the video he talks about why chrome/phosphate/NP3 then nitride/DLC bcg’s tend to be more gas efficient.
I forget where I read it but a phosphate coating is the best overall when it comes to staying functional/"slippery" the longest provided you're not a retard and use regular oil. Over the years I've bought tons of the NiB bolts from different companies and got rid of all of them. They look cool when new but otherwise never saw any functional advantage.
Probably same thing as nickel boron just slightly different color/hue, these companies don't do their own plating either for the most part they send it out to 3rd parties. There's a lot of different compounds you can make stick to metal using electro processes you can watch videos on youtube it's pretty interesting because they come up with a very uniform coating that's microns thick etc.
I think he's FOS, with a fair amount of conjecture, if not outright mis-information & he has plenty of company.
MM
Absolutely nothing wrong with a good mag phos BC as long as it's lubed.........................but the other coatings will run better dry or with less lube & are just plain far easier to clean if that matters to you, especially the bolt stem.
KAC still uses mag phos on all their rifles as far as I know & I have 3 of them. But they do (did) have a chrome version available if you could ever find one.
And typically, especially with DLC or PVD components, the wear on mating surfaces is minimized.................again if that even matters.
I deal with all of these coating on a commercial basis on a variety of automotive related parts every day.
MM
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My POF 308 was the one I shot the most and what I noticed was the NiB finish started to get dark and it had a few areas where it was almost like a crud/rust on it I couldn't get rid of. So it didn't have the shiny cool look to it and I had to lube it the same as all the others anyways. My PWS was much better however I think the bolt itself was phosphate while the carrier was NiB.
This ^^^ is what Chad at SOTAR points out as the issue with NiB coatings in the above linked video. Looks good at first but chips/wears weird which causes gas efficiency issues.
Ok…take it FWIW…the guy in the video has gauged probably thousands of bcg’s with all the different coatings and there are of course exceptions to the rule but what he found in general was what I had in my post you were responding to. Its not like he has a financial incentive to push bcg’s with certain coatings over others.
I've been pretty impressed with the JP stuff I've been running in my 6 ARC. I have LMT and KAC in all the rest, no complaints. If I were to try something else for general use, it'd likely be Microbest.
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