Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

[KPK]

I guess these haven't made their way out yet, but I've heard and read about them. What's going to be the best twist and cartridge do you guys think?

I like the look of the STW, SAUM, and maybe the RUM...

How about the 280AI? Get it to speed?

Just starting a little debate/opninion...

 

[dk-1]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

Very good question, you might try posting in the reloading section as well.

 

[glock24]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

The good ol' 7mm Remington Magnum with a 1/8" twist will be my choice.

 

[mt Al]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

7mm Mag, tighter twist. Plenty o' room for plenty of powder. Not as cool sounding as the new comer cases which makes it that much more awesome.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

How about the plain ole .280 Rem.? Rifling twist will need to be shorter than most factory guns.

My understanding is that it's maybe, or close to being, the slickest bullet made. So just how fast a muzzle velocity do you really need it to start it out at, anyway?

My interest here is to be able to use this bullet and still get some decent bore/throat life out of a nice barrel

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I wish they were out, my saum would love to give the 195's a try.

 

[WyoJoe]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess these haven't made their way out yet, but I've heard and read about them. What's going to be the best twist and cartridge do you guys think?

I like the look of the STW, SAUM, and maybe the RUM...

How about the 280AI? Get it to speed?

Just starting a little debate/opninion... </div></div>

My first reaction was the STW so I will stick with that. You should be able to get a good velocity with it. As for twist I am uncertain.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

Personally, I think these bullets are pointless in any chambering that doesn't get them to 3000fps or more. 3000fps is a "barrier" that is difficult to pass. It is relatively easy (not much powder) to get any given bullet to 2000fps, not much harder to get 2500fps, but you've really gotta pour on the coals to get up to 3000.

Thus, a cartridge that can "only" get 3000fps from a 180gr bullet is going to take about a 125-150fps hit on velocity by upping the bullet to 195gr.

An overbore cartridge that is deep into the "diminishing returns" area of velocity with the 180gr bullets is a much better candidate for these 195s.

For example, a 7WSM or 7RM that can hit ~3150 with a 162amax will hit ~3050 with a 175, ~3000 with a 180, and continuing to use the law of conservation of energy, oughtta run about 2875fps with a 195.

Here are the drops (in the order of 162, 175,180, 195) at 1000/2000 yards in mrad:

6.4/25.4

6.7/25.4

6.8/24.8

7/23.1

Here are the drifts (again in the same order) for a 10mph FV wind:

1.6/4.5

1.6/4.4

1.5/4.1

1.3/3.5

All calculated with JBM, using the Litz data. G7BC of .406 used for the 195 bullet.

ETA: For competitive F-class type shooting where drop doesn't matter a lick, but .1mrad difference in drift can make the difference between a hit in the 9 ring instead of the 10 ring, I see the merit in these bullets - even at relatively low MV.

 

[rusty815]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I think that anything 284win or above should be enough for this cartridge, sure it offers a bit more drop but I think the slight advantage in wind drift is worth it, one thing overlooked is that these 195gr. Bergers with the .794BC will be an awesome long range cartridge, even if shot out of a 284 at 2700fps (about what I would see out of my rifle), its supersonic out to 1900 yards according to my ballistic calculator.

 

[KPK]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

Ok so let's say you need to run it at 3,000fps, which I would agree that would be the best.

What's that case? 7mm RUM is going to be the easiest, but what about length of loads and being mag/bdl fed?

What will be the best barrel twist for this? I'm assuming 1:8...1:8.5 may be best for using the 180's as well as the 195s?

 

[KPK]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

1:8.4 work? Bugholes has them in stock!!.....

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I'm running a wildcat 300WM necked to 7mm w/ 180 bergers thru a re-chambered 1:9 26 in 7RM bbl. at 3050. Had it to 3150 but accuracy fell off. Others have gone to 3200 +/- w/ 28in bbl. Cases easy to form..run thru a 7RM neck die done. Waiting very expectantly for this bullet. Should be the hammer of God w/ a 28 in. 1:8.5.

 

[Insite Arms]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

7mm Norma Mag

 

[KPK]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

Would that be a 7mm/338 Norma Mag? Would be a beast, but wouldn't it use the larger Lapua type action?

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

all this talk about the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrids. Who has actually seen them? Where are they?

 

[George63]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all this talk about the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrids. Who has actually seen them? Where are they? </div></div>

if I remember right, they were a possible for 2012 - if they are going to get through testing and come to market I would think it will not be later than 2013

I doubt there will be a big volume market for these, so not a lot of motivation to push the R+D

It is nice that some advance notice was put out - so anyone building/ rebarreling could go with a fast twist if they were interested in potentially trying these

 

[KPK]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I called Berger today jus to see what I could get out of them, lol.

Talked to a customer service guy and this is about what I got:

They are still in developement, but should possibly be available early 2013 (I'm guessing that could mean 1st quarter?)

I then asked what twist they recommended, etc. He said that was also in testing and no information could be given yet.

Maybe we'll know in a few months! I'll start collecting everything but a barrel!

 

[blksno]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I'm building a 7mm SAUM with a 1:8 twist and hope to run these sooner or later, but decided to also build a 7mm Rem Mag with a 1:8.5 as well.
I'd agree though, that the 7mm Norma Mag would be my first choice for this bullet...and a close second would be a 7mm Fatso. (same thing, just shortened)

 

[Malium]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

In the old reliable 7mmRM, H1000 & Retumbo work well for the 180gr Berger Hybrids. I would guess that the 195gr Bergers would work well with Retumbo.

 

[260shtr]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

7 Norma mag. At this time I would use a 300 Norma as the parent case (less work). Can still run in a REM Mag action. 3000 fps should be cake.

 

[Edds]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I then asked what twist they recommended, etc. He said that was also in testing and no information could be given yet.
</div></div>

This is a public statement made by Bryan Litz........

1:9" may get you by, but to be clear, the twist recommended by Berger for good stability in all conditions is 1:8.5". It's a good idea to cheat on the fast side of twist with these long tipsy bullets.

 

[steve123]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I'm thinking 7mm-375 Ruger.

Of course the hassle being necking it down to 7mm.

For reference I'm getting 2960 fps with the 230's out of a 30" barrel in my 30-375R with excellent barrel life at 1400 rounds through it. The brass life is exceptional as well.

 

[KPK]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edds</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I then asked what twist they recommended, etc. He said that was also in testing and no information could be given yet.
</div></div>

This is a public statement made by Bryan Litz........

1:9" may get you by, but to be clear, the twist recommended by Berger for good stability in all conditions is 1:8.5". It's a good idea to cheat on the fast side of twist with these long tipsy bullets. </div></div>

Well there it is, lol! He must have not known or not know what he could say or not.

I'll probably get a 1:8 or 1:8.4...maybe the 8.4 would be as good for the 180's as the 195's in a RUM. Might as well push the hell out of them...

 

[Switchbarrel]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

Anybody shooting/shot the 189 gr. Cauterucio's? That bullet weight is ~2/3 of the way to the 195 (compared the the 180's). Cartridge/speed data from that bullet could give you some insights.

-Rick

 

[AberdeenReb]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

What about 7mm Dakota? I see it gets 180's to 3150 pretty easy, 195's in a long barrel should be over 3000, plus no belt and standard length.

 

[George63]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I would think 7 saum would be the minimum suitable capacity

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

284 JAZZ which is a 7-338 Norma AI
The case capacity is perfect for this bullet.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

So that means you have a load in mind. What is it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 JAZZ which is a 7-338 Norma AI
The case capacity is perfect for this bullet. </div></div>

 

[SuburbanHick]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

ultramag +1

 

[95LTZ]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I have a cartridge very similar to the 284 JAZZ. I took a 300 Norma Mag necked it down to 7mm, gave it a long neck & took some of the taper out of the body. I call it the 7xr. Currently a 180 JLK is at an avg. 3179 fps with no pressure signs at all. I ran out of Vit 24N41 (which they have discontinued) Retumbo works but RL50 works even better for me. Jared @ APA has experience with the 7xr cartridge. He has projectiles not make it to the target at around 3500 fps I think. He has the exact figures.
Robert Gradous has a reamer called the 7mm ATUC which is a 7/300 Norma Mag Improved. for just a little more steam.
Semper Fi

 

[OKbow87]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I think the 7-375 ruger or gunwerks 7 lrm would be the ticket. They are the same thing. Should be able to push them around 3000 fps fairly easy, and you can buy already formed brass from gunwerks. Takes out all the forming with the 7-338 norma or any other big wildcats.

 

[wdebo]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

How about the 7mm hulk? I am not positive but I believe this round has been used with the 195's.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: suburbanhick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ultramag +1 </div></div>
+1 on the 7 RUM as well.
Any 7mm based on the 300WM case or above would be a very good match for this bullet

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I was disappointed to note that L-W does not list .284" barrel blanks, etc., with a rifling twist faster than 1:9".

Greg

 

[LR338nut]

Re: Best Cartridge for the Berger 7mm 195 Hybrid?

I have been considering a 7-300WSM for the 195 Berger. Im also wonding if it would be able to reach the 3000fps range.

 

[KPK]

Anyone heard anything!?