Good advice above so I will just add a little tidbit, precision and Zastava M70 is rarely used in the same sentence. The M70 is commercial Mauser 98 and make great hunting guns for a number of reasons but getting them to shoot what we think of as precision today is not easy nor cheap. Before the flames begin I should let folks know I own a bunch of 98's and am currently building two for hunting a 280AI and a 9.3x62.
- Thread starter Jofootballo
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My recommendation would be a Remington 700 PSS in 300wm. Have it glass bedded. You should be right around $1000 for that. The stock is useable as well. I doubt you’d be able to outshoot that rifle for a few years.
can also double as a hunting rifle. It’s what I started on 15yrs ago and it shot 1/2in all day long.
can also double as a hunting rifle. It’s what I started on 15yrs ago and it shot 1/2in all day long.
That is terrible advice for a new shooter. .300wm isn’t going to help him with fundamentals since they suck to shoot. Remington? Honestly, why, when you have options that are better for the same price? (TIKKA!!!)
you guys and the fucking Tikkas. The only thing good about a Tikka is that they are made by Sako. Other than that they are average at best. I’d take a Savage over a tikka every time.and there’s nothing wrong about starting with a large caliber. You think a 300wm kicks thats much harder than an 06? Grow some fuck nuggets bro. If you’re worried about recoil then thread the bitch and put a brake on. My 300 wm and 300wsm kick no worse than my 6.5x47 with the brakes on them
I grew up a Remington guy... My match rifle is on a true’d 700 action... I have a soft spot for them but there are better out the box options these days.
and there’s nothing wrong about starting with a large caliber. You think a 300wm kicks thats much harder than an 06? Grow some fuck nuggets bro. If you’re worried about recoil then thread the bitch and put a brake on. My 300 wm and 300wsm kick no worse than my 6.5x47 with the brakes on them
It’s not about having balls to deal with recoil... it’s about a new shooter learning fundamentals and a better chance at seeing impact/misses with a lighter recoiling rifle that can still shoot long range and kill animals.
30.06 rifle? Not my thing. However, if you considered another caliber I would go with Howa/Tikka. Savage action and Accutrigger is pain in the ass. Howa or Tikka actions are way better- you can keep them and change the barrel, change the stock etc.
Why not get a 22lr and put a decent piece of glass on top. If your budget is that small for the rifle how are you going to feed it. 22lr are small investment and put more into the glass than the rifle then shoot the hell out of it learning the basics of shooting while saving up for a decent center fire rifle.
He wants it mainly as a hunting rifle up to and including elk. So .22 is a bit light for that
If the OP wants a great gun I’d look hard into a Ruger precision rifle or Tikka. Both come up in the px section on here and can save him money going that route
As a poor my choice is Tikka T3X from the classified here. Some you’ll find in aftermarket stocks or you can drop into a krg bravo or something of the sort in the future
Yes it will blow your gun and scope budget in one shot. However, your scope budget isn’t enough to get into even a fixed swfa optic. So your going to need to save pennies to get a decent optic (this could be another discussion altogether)
At least with the Tikka you have an accurate (at least the ones I’ve seen shot or shot personally were accurate) with a great action. If you choose to part ways eventually it will hold its value better
The savage is still my vote of those 3 you listed. But keep in mind I’ve had issues with ejection, rifles that threw the first 1 or 2 shots from a cold bore (not acceptable for hunting) and have limited aftermarket support
Also if you sell the savage you’ll loose more money compared to resale on a Tikka. Most savages that sell on here go for about 2/3 what they’re worth
I say blow your entire wad in the Tikka. Make the optic a whole other budget item. You’ll be happier in the long run I think
I'm really curious how, all of a sudden, there is limited aftermarket support for savage.
Especially since, one of the reasons they used to be popular here is the aftermarket support.
Especially since, one of the reasons they used to be popular here is the aftermarket support.
I was banging steel today at 1000 yards in 30 MPH winds w/ my Tikka 6.5CM using Hornady factory loaded ammo.
So Tikka is the answer I'm gonna give.
So Tikka is the answer I'm gonna give.
What about ruger American predator in 6.5 creedmoor. Work well for hunting and probably do well as a starter rifle for target shooting. Barrel is heavier than the standard profile but lighter than a varmit barrel. There is some after market support like mdt chassis.
At your price range look at some pawn shops for a used Remington 700P, LRT or varmint or Look for a Sako A7. Locally they have shown up for close to your budget. Keep it cheap enough to learn on and then improve Savages sell well here but its buttfuck Southern WV so YMMV.
Once you graduate, buy something better Sako or Tikka. If it has to be new, up your budget some and go Tikka. Same for glass check the trading times, or check around here. Deals come up. I should know on deals, all I like is old and outdated.
Once you graduate, buy something better Sako or Tikka. If it has to be new, up your budget some and go Tikka. Same for glass check the trading times, or check around here. Deals come up. I should know on deals, all I like is old and outdated.
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People suggesting SWFA scopes in 2021 is like Suggesting getting a cassete player to listen to music.
Save a few more dollars, to get a lot more rifle.
I'd aim for the Tikka.
I'd aim for the Tikka.
Like you said this isn't 15 years ago. You have more and far better options. A 700 back in the day was a decent bet but this day and age there's no reason to go that way.
They are far more robust, far better built with far better machining and tolerances than any 300 dollar Chinese scope.
Edit: sorry-didn’t see the post above already covered it.
If you know of a better/more reliable option under $300 I would like to know.
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TIkKa comes to mind. ALL of mine where 1/3 inch group shooters.
It's 2021 and nobody offers anything that can touch the SWFA for $300 or less. Not even close. The only fault is that it's not a great choice for most hunting situations, as it's non-ill, reticle is too fine and 6x is too much magnification for close range encounters (IMO). I'd go with a 12x and save up for a hunting scope. But for ringing steel at 1000 and beyond for $300, what's better? what tracks as well? what's as rugged?
I'm not seeing many Bergara's in the 600-700 price range, at least, ones configured for the OP's intended purpose.
certainly not heavy barrel Tikka's.
In the price range the OP is specifying Savage is an outstanding opportunity right now.....Savage 110 Tactical in 6.5 CM for $699 on the first search. I'm surte there are rebates or even better prices if one looks.
VooDoo
VooDoo
It makes sense to borrow money from a parent/friend not to make a stupid mistake in the beginning. You said banging steel? Ok, what size of plate do you mean? My acceptable accuracy goal is 0.5moa or less/300m. What accuracy objective do you have? The one I have is difficult to reach with a factory savage.
My Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM shot .75 MOA right out of the box with factory ammunition and a $200ish Vortex Crossfire II scope and it cost me like $400ish - $600 with glass. It now shoots .5 MOA (when I'm good enough) with hand loads and upgrades/better glass. This in the hands of a newbie, know nothing, self taught shooter 3 years ago. and Savage is producing some better guns right now having been bought out and upgraded.
My opinion is that expecting .5 MOA performance from a $600 - $1K rifle right out of the box in the hands of less-than-expert is probably unrealistic. YMMV. Savage is a great option for the OP.
VooDoo
My opinion is that expecting .5 MOA performance from a $600 - $1K rifle right out of the box in the hands of less-than-expert is probably unrealistic. YMMV. Savage is a great option for the OP.
VooDoo
My advice would be to look hard at the Bergara Ridge. I got a Bergara Ridge SP in 308 last year. Out of the box it shot 1/2 MOA with factory ammo. It honestly shoots as well as rifles I own that are 5x the MSRP. It has a threaded barrel and uses the R700 footprint so as your finances grow you can put it in a better stock/ chassis if you wish to later and add a muzzle device/suppressor. I’m so impressed with mine that it is now my primary hunting rifle over some very expensive rifles that I own.
@DaVinci I believe you on your savage. It does not however mitigate the fact that cumulative experience of SH community leads to the conclusion that there have been issues with savage right out od the box- e.g. Elite Precision, see Scott's response to that. At the same time there have been very few minor issues with tikka/bergara. You are paying also for a peace of mind.
Not that I'm advocating savage, but Bergara has a reputation for issues with the extractors breaking.
There's a lot of guys with some pretty fancy gear, me included. But I also try to remind myself every once in awhile what Carlos Hathcock was able to do with a Winchester 70 in a 30-06 with an Unertl 8 power scope, which probably wouldn't hold a candle to the average box store budget scope these days.
Buy the best you can afford (we've all been on the broke college budget before) and hone your skills. There's plenty of guys out there that can outshoot me with a hunting rifle over my fancy rig. The money will come and you'll be that much better for it.
Do your research on cartridge's. My preference is a 6.5cm over a 308, but I feel it suits my needs better.
I've heard great things about Arken scopes as an entry level scope. Seemed to have good glass and turrets. They top around $650 I think. Research them though and see if anyone has experience with them.
Buy the best you can afford (we've all been on the broke college budget before) and hone your skills. There's plenty of guys out there that can outshoot me with a hunting rifle over my fancy rig. The money will come and you'll be that much better for it.
Do your research on cartridge's. My preference is a 6.5cm over a 308, but I feel it suits my needs better.
I've heard great things about Arken scopes as an entry level scope. Seemed to have good glass and turrets. They top around $650 I think. Research them though and see if anyone has experience with them.
Bergar Ridge has, while not a “heavy” barrel is a #5 contour. It’s the same contour as my LRP Premier and plenty heavy enough for PRS competition if you want. The Ridge can be had for right at $750 new. I imagine, if you can find one used, would save a few bucks.
I have a couple Interarms Mark Xs, same rifle as the Zastava M70, great hunting rifles, but “precision “ they are not. I should admit, I am a big Bergara fan.
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and there’s nothing wrong about starting with a large caliber. You think a 300wm kicks thats much harder than an 06? Grow some fuck nuggets bro. If you’re worried about recoil then thread the bitch and put a brake on. My 300 wm and 300wsm kick no worse than my 6.5x47 with the brakes on them
Have you owned a tikka? When my $800 tikka outshot my $4500 custom rifle with comparable smoothest on the bolt, it was eye opening.
No, but a BAT ain't 900 dollars smoother that's for sure.Lol so now an $800 tikka is smoother than a BAT !
I'm no mathematician, but I think that exceeds the 700 dollars he is looking to spend.
Look around and see if you can find the vanguard in a heavy barrel. I have one in 308 that shoots very well. The vanguard is nothing but a Howa 1500 with weatherby branding.
I recently dropped it into an MDT XRS chassis and it now shoots even better (and much more comfortable). Careful what you read around this site. People will tell you all sorts of elitist crap, disregard that stuff, get something you can afford and have fun. Some of the best lessons you can learn come from humble beginnings and rich twats are always going to be rich twats.
I recently dropped it into an MDT XRS chassis and it now shoots even better (and much more comfortable). Careful what you read around this site. People will tell you all sorts of elitist crap, disregard that stuff, get something you can afford and have fun. Some of the best lessons you can learn come from humble beginnings and rich twats are always going to be rich twats.
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As I mentioned above. The savage will serve you just fine. I have several with factory and aftermarket barrels on them. They’re in the safe next to custom rifles, Rem 700’s and Accuracy Internationals. I can pull out a savage and shoot just as accurate as I can with the others
Starting out you can customize them enough to your preference
Just don’t expect to pay $700 for a savage and get $600 for it if you sell it. Also don’t be surprised if you need an aftermarket barrel or have extraction issues.
From what I’ve seen lately savage is a gun company that listens to its owners and has vastly expanded its features and offerings.
That tells you they care about what they do and they’ll be there to support it.
Below is the second most accurate rifle I currently own. First is a Fclass custom 284 that cost about 4X as much
It’s a savage 10, CBI 26” 260 Rem barrel, Sightron SIII scope and mcree chassis. Below are groups at 100, 300 (covered with dime), 600 (5 shots with lighter) and 1,792 yards (steel silhouette)
When trying out for an Fclass team I shot this rifle in Grayling MI at the 1,000 yard regional championship. I finished 12 out of 36. I was shooting F-Open, was the only one with a bipod on the line and looked completely out of place with my 26” Varmint taper barrel against 284’s running 1-1 1/4” 30-32” tubes.
It caught some attention when the first round I shot a 192/200.
Savages are the common rifle of the poors. But sometimes the poors still make a statement
Starting out you can customize them enough to your preference
Just don’t expect to pay $700 for a savage and get $600 for it if you sell it. Also don’t be surprised if you need an aftermarket barrel or have extraction issues.
From what I’ve seen lately savage is a gun company that listens to its owners and has vastly expanded its features and offerings.
That tells you they care about what they do and they’ll be there to support it.
Below is the second most accurate rifle I currently own. First is a Fclass custom 284 that cost about 4X as much
It’s a savage 10, CBI 26” 260 Rem barrel, Sightron SIII scope and mcree chassis. Below are groups at 100, 300 (covered with dime), 600 (5 shots with lighter) and 1,792 yards (steel silhouette)
When trying out for an Fclass team I shot this rifle in Grayling MI at the 1,000 yard regional championship. I finished 12 out of 36. I was shooting F-Open, was the only one with a bipod on the line and looked completely out of place with my 26” Varmint taper barrel against 284’s running 1-1 1/4” 30-32” tubes.
It caught some attention when the first round I shot a 192/200.
Savages are the common rifle of the poors. But sometimes the poors still make a statement
What about a Ruger American Hunter? AI mags, Magpul stock, and well within budget...
Savage vs. Tikka: I had my Savage FCP-SR out yesterday. It's bone-stock except for a muzzle break, sling, and <$400 Nikon scope. It shoots <1moa all day long with match ammo. The mags are finicky...
More of a precision complex although there are a few that are convinced that more expensive is "always" better, however to build good fundamentals a Bergara, or Tikka will do ya. Once you've got some skills established you'll soon start saving for the rifle you'll really want by then, and as a rule "you'll get what you pay for" and "buy once, cry once" generally applies. Buy the best glass you can afford that way you can keep it when you sell your starter rifle and don't fall for the biggest, baddest, and more exotic, even harder than it right now is to find caliber. Generally, the bigger they are, the more expensive they are, and the less pleasurable to shoot, and the less range time and practice you will get in when you are on a budget, meaning it will take you longer to develop skill. Make sure you budget for rifle, glass, ammo, bags, or bipod, maybe a sling, mat, and cleaning equipment,... It's easy to expend your money once you get into this, regardless of income, the opportunities to spend grow proportionate to income, there you go, you have been cautioned. Once you've got your rifle consider taking classes to build good fundamentals, it's easier to do so from the get go, than to fix bad habits later.
"...terrible advice for a new shooter. .300wm isn’t going to help him with fundamentals..." - Agreed. When I decided about 25 years ago at the age of 45 to learn to shoot a rifle at distance (Vietnam / M16's don't count) I went to a well regarded local rifle builder and talked it over. He suggested a .243 Remington 700. He trued the action and bedded the rifle in one of his fiberglass stocks, mounted a Leupold scope and I went to the local 500 yard range with Major Plaster's book "The Ultimate Sniper". After awhile I got an RCBS loading press. This was not a "budget" approach but the OP could do something like this on a budget. As years went by I went to 7mm-08 then .308. I have shot and did not care for the .270 or 300WM. A rifleman must learn the fundamentals - it is not quick and it is not easy.
The Savage 12FV as sold by BP and Cabellas is dirt cheap and a nice starting point.
Good luck Sir!
Good luck Sir!
You have the math a little backwards - there are always cheap rifles available that can be made to shoot well - not the same for good glass. Precision rifles & elk rifles aren’t quite the same tool. My elk rifle in 300 Wby I bought for $260 a trigger for $100 and it shoots fantastic to 800+ yard....with an on sale $800 Zeiss 3-15x50. Spend more on glass & keep it when you get rid of the rifle. Tikka in 300 Win Mag or WSM is a really nice elk rifle that you could shoot at long range.
You've sure left a lot of info out of your question. What game are you going to be after, Where are you hunting, what is the minimum caliber that can be legally used where you hunt.
The scope that is most useful in woods hunting will probably be a handicap in Long Range shooting and vice versa. A light barreled rifle will be a lot easier to carry if one has to walk a lot but if stand hunting a heavier rifle would be alright. If hunting is your main activity, then get a setup more suited for that. Woods hunting requires a scope with a wide field of view and not much magnification whereas plains game at more than a couple hundred yards needs more power; then there's the question of first or second focal plane. Hunting woods white tail vs Wyoming antelope vs Idaho elk present very different needs.
Target shooting is a whole different operation, meaning generally many more shots will be fired, requiring a caliber that is less expensive per shot and a gun that will not overheat after 3 shots. There is also the question of recoil sensitivity. A flinch can develop almost at the first shot if one isn't used to flash, bang and noise. A light rifle with heavy loads is more difficult to use well than lighter load.
I have a Ruger Am. Pred. in 6mm Creedmoor that is very light to carry and very accurate and I also have a Savage 10T in 6mm Creed. I'll let you guess which one I use for walk around hunting.
Remember, the whole idea is to enjoy using your firearms, not to impress anyone else.
The scope that is most useful in woods hunting will probably be a handicap in Long Range shooting and vice versa. A light barreled rifle will be a lot easier to carry if one has to walk a lot but if stand hunting a heavier rifle would be alright. If hunting is your main activity, then get a setup more suited for that. Woods hunting requires a scope with a wide field of view and not much magnification whereas plains game at more than a couple hundred yards needs more power; then there's the question of first or second focal plane. Hunting woods white tail vs Wyoming antelope vs Idaho elk present very different needs.
Target shooting is a whole different operation, meaning generally many more shots will be fired, requiring a caliber that is less expensive per shot and a gun that will not overheat after 3 shots. There is also the question of recoil sensitivity. A flinch can develop almost at the first shot if one isn't used to flash, bang and noise. A light rifle with heavy loads is more difficult to use well than lighter load.
I have a Ruger Am. Pred. in 6mm Creedmoor that is very light to carry and very accurate and I also have a Savage 10T in 6mm Creed. I'll let you guess which one I use for walk around hunting.
Remember, the whole idea is to enjoy using your firearms, not to impress anyone else.
Just buy the Tikka and an Athlon. Both will work extremely well at the price point and both are desirable in the open used market. Both are cheap enough you won't get hurt much on the resale because there's only so much to lose to begin with.
Nobody with any credibility is downing tikka. The OP is looking for a heavy barreled rifle to use for both hunting and target/steel shooting with a top cost of 750. Tikka doesn't fit that bill in regards to cost.
Why are 308 & 30-06 hated right now?
Went to a gun show this weekend and no one had 308 of any kind Dealers said couldn't keep enough of them on hand. Going to try gun stores next.
Haha it seems we have the same rifle...well almost.
Same Savage from Cabela's, B&C stock with CDI DBM, and I just put a Shilen SM in 223 Wylde on it.
My first center fire rifle was a Savage 10 in 308. I shot it a lot before putting a custom barrel. It ended up having extraction issues after a few thousands rounds and the larger detent ball didn't fix it.
Now I came back to the Savage again simply because I already had the B&C stock and I added the CDI DBM because the Savage 223 I got was such a pain to load and to feed. If you start from scratch, a Remage would probably be a better choice because of part availability.
As of now I don't have any feeding/extraction issues with the 223.....well...almost....sometimes I have to rack the bolt in two consecutive movements (ordered a new accurate mag that might or might not solve this minor issue)
The Savage is great to shoot from the bench, have fun and figure out the fundamentals of shooting long range. When you shoot out your barrel (or if your not happy with your factory barrel) you can replace it with a match barrel in your room in 15mn and that will only cost you $300.
But the Savage is not a super reliable, bomb proof platform I'd take to a match.
Get an upgrade extractor kit off one of several Savage replacement part websites for ~$30 and bingo; super easy swap and much stronger extraction!
