Bighorn Origin or Curtis Axiom?

[EastCOYotes]

Besides the obvious of two lug vs 3 lug does anyone think one is clearly better? Curtis is running a COVID19 sale is why I’m considering picking up an Axiom.

I like the Savage barrel options for the Bighorns but see that there are now prefits available for the Axiom as well.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I have or had an ARC Nucleus, ARC Achimedes, Kelbly Atlas Tactical and a Big Horn Origin.

Of all of them I like the Origin the best. The Nucleus is also nice but Big Horn CS is the best there is. I have never handled a Axiom so I cannot compare it.

I went with Savage threaded actions because you can buy cheap barrels to try out a new caliber. And you can get quality Savage barrels for $300. I have a Criterion prefit in 6BR that I use to ring steel past 1K regularly.

 

[LawnMM]

Bighorn all day

 

[smacha538]

Zermatt

 

[Estes640]

Zermatt origin by far over Curtis axiom, kelbly is a close second to the origin.

 

[Tokay444]

Definitely NOT Curtis.
In 3 lugs, the obvious choices in no particular order are ARC Nucleus, and Archimedes, Terminus Zeus, Ultimatum Deadline, GAP Tempest, etc.

 

[Tokay444]

Besides the obvious of two lug vs 3 lug does anyone think one is clearly better? Curtis is running a COVID19 sale is why I’m considering picking up an Axiom.

I like the Savage barrel options for the Bighorns but see that there are now prefits available for the Axiom as well.

I posted on their IG but they deleted it.
“If you just took 3.3% off your bolt body, your actions would feed properly and you’d be able to sell them at full price. If you take care of the people who currently have actions that don’t work, you’d instill confidence in the community again and people would start buying them again.”

 

[smacha538]

I posted on their IG but they deleted it.
“If you just took 3.3% off your bolt body, your actions would feed properly and you’d be able to sell them at full price. If you take care of the people who currently have actions that don’t work, you’d instill confidence in the community again and people would start buying them again.”

True story

 

[Tokay444]

But the guy who wanted to make those changes had to leave and start Terminus in order to do it.

 

[kthomas]

But the guy who wanted to make those changes had to leave and start Terminus in order to do it.

It's sad that Curtis won't recognize and address the current issues with their product line.

 

[Tokay444]

Yup. It's especially bad the way some folks who've never actually touched one fanboi for them because they sponsored some names.

 

[wade2big]

But the guy who wanted to make those changes had to leave and start Terminus in order to do it.

and when he started Terminus, he made his first batch of Zeus actions completely identical to the problem actions you are referring to. The Axiom is a fantastic action that feeds perfectly and will not bind no matter how it’s cycled. I can’t speak of the Vector.

 

[GetReal]

I like my Origin. No experience with the Axiom.

 

[mmlook]

Origin

really depends on what you like and are looking for.

for me, I would take control round feed, and the smoother bolt close/opening
over the 60 degree throw

 

[loveha]

Have an Axiom from an MPA rifle purchase at the LGS (They had several and weren't selling so talked them down on a nice 6.5CM). Love the action, but wouldn't buy one based on the fact of the above reasons.
Was going to buy a Terminus Zeus this late fall, but like what I have been reading on the ARC Archimedes and Mausingfield. I know the Mausingfield is not 3 lug, but like what I read and probably what I am going to go with. That, and I like that I can use Savage small shank barrels and I can swap bolt heads.

 

[EastCOYotes]

Well the majority votes in this thread say Origin so I’ll probably go that route. I also do have a Bighorn SR3 and I’ve had no issues with it any regard, was just curious if the discounted axiom was on the same level as an Origin. I’d be happy to continue supporting Bighorn.

 

[EastCOYotes]

I posted on their IG but they deleted it.
“If you just took 3.3% off your bolt body, your actions would feed properly and you’d be able to sell them at full price. If you take care of the people who currently have actions that don’t work, you’d instill confidence in the community again and people would start buying them again.”

I wasn’t aware of these feeding issues, do you think these issues are resolved with Terminus actions since they seem to be an evolution of Curtis?

 

[b6graham]

zermatt

they work

they have CS

 

[Tokay444]

I wasn’t aware of these feeding issues, do you think these issues are resolved with Terminus actions since they seem to be an evolution of Curtis?

Yes. He want back to a .725” bolt body diameter to be compatible with all the Rem700 chassis and stocks without having to fuck with shit to make them feed.

 

[littlepod]

Call up Joel @ Terminus, see if he can negotiate a price with you. I got my Zeus the other day and wow it cycles so smoothly. I read a lot of threads on the quick change barrel setup and ordered a few barrels. Spoke to a few gunsmiths and Joel and he said he hasn't had any issues with the quick change system on the Vector or Zeus.

 

[Todc]

Can't go wrong with an Origin imo.

 

[EastCOYotes]

Call up Joel @ Terminus, see if he can negotiate a price with you. I got my Zeus the other day and wow it cycles so smoothly. I read a lot of threads on the quick change barrel setup and ordered a few barrels. Spoke to a few gunsmiths and Joel and he said he hasn't had any issues with the quick change system on the Vector or Zeus.

The Zeus does look sweet, but it is in an entirely different price bracket than the Axiom/Origin.

I did watch the video of the quick change barrel system on the Zeus though and it seems really slick.

If I was dead set on wanting a 3-lug I think I’d consider Terminus over Curtis at this point.

 

[b6graham]

Call up Joel @ Terminus, see if he can negotiate a price with you. I got my Zeus the other day and wow it cycles so smoothly. I read a lot of threads on the quick change barrel setup and ordered a few barrels. Spoke to a few gunsmiths and Joel and he said he hasn't had any issues with the quick change system on the Vector or Zeus.

Fwiw I know like 8 guys with zeus and I think they all went full thread tenon

 

[Tokay444]

Torqued shouldered barrels are still quick change. Just maybe not in the field change, unless your barrel vice attaches to your tow hitch.
I’ve seen some pretty definitive results that tell me I never really want anything torqued less than 80lb/ft. It seems to work ok AI, but it’s a different setup completely.

 

[littlepod]

Torqued shouldered barrels are still quick change. Just maybe not in the field change, unless your barrel vice attaches to your tow hitch.
I’ve seen some pretty definitive results that tell me I never really want anything torqued less than 80lb/ft. It seems to work ok AI, but it’s a different setup completely.

Yeh I hope it works out.. bought a smaller sized Pelican and sold the larger one since if I can pull the barrel out definitely saves size on what to lug around to the airport.

 

[EastCOYotes]

Call up Joel @ Terminus, see if he can negotiate a price with you. I got my Zeus the other day and wow it cycles so smoothly. I read a lot of threads on the quick change barrel setup and ordered a few barrels. Spoke to a few gunsmiths and Joel and he said he hasn't had any issues with the quick change system on the Vector or Zeus.

I’m curious to hear how your quick change barrels shoot. Pretty convenient if they are performers.

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I have and run the Curtis Vector... And after reading all this bashing I hope mine holds up. But what I can say is that I have a Proof Carbon 6.5 SAUM barrel for hunting, and 2 6 BRX barrels for it. All are just hand tight and VERY repeatable when removed and reinstalled. I took one of my BRX tubes off to clean and put it back on and my zero didn't move... Just my experience

 

[EastCOYotes]

I have and run the Curtis Vector... And after reading all this bashing I hope mine holds up. But what I can say is that I have a Proof Carbon 6.5 SAUM barrel for hunting, and 2 6 BRX barrels for it. All are just hand tight and VERY repeatable when removed and reinstalled. I took one of my BRX tubes off to clean and put it back on and my zero didn't move... Just my experience

That quick barrel swapping is what I think is cool about the Vector/Zeus. I’ve got kinda the same idea in mind that I could shoot a 6 or 6.5 creed barrel for matches then a short 22 creed barrel for coyote hunting.

Of course I could do the same with an Origin and shouldered prefits, barrel swaps just aren’t as easy.

 

[eric1911]

I need to make the same choice here Origin vs Axiom.
I am wondering why Axiom MSRP is higher than Origin MSRP.
What's the advantage of Axiom over Origin other than the 60 degree?

 

[Deleted member 110994]

That quick barrel swapping is what I think is cool about the Vector/Zeus. I’ve got kinda the same idea in mind that I could shoot a 6 or 6.5 creed barrel for matches then a short 22 creed barrel for coyote hunting.

Of course I could do the same with an Origin and shouldered prefits, barrel swaps just aren’t as easy.

Thats what sold me also. I was debating between the Curtis and TL3 and went with the Curtis. I like the hand tight barrel option and just have a different bolt to throw in. Quick and easy

 

[EastCOYotes]

I need to make the same choice here Origin vs Axiom.
I am wondering why Axiom MSRP is higher than Origin MSRP.
What's the advantage of Axiom over Origin other than the 60 degree?

Based on what I’ve heard hear and reading I’ve done, I think the Origin is a better value than the Axiom especially if you get it 10% off at Brownells like some people do.

 

[Tokay444]

Something that works will always be a better value over something that doesn’t, regardless of any price differential in either direction.

 

[S3th]

I had MPA build me a 6BR on an Axiom. I had zero issues with it but when I reached out to Curtis Customs with basic questions, I never got a response. Thankfully, Phil at MPA always stepped up and answered my numerous questions. I would never buy another Curtis Customs action again. On my new rifle build, I am building on a Lone Peak Arms and the customer service has been great.

 

[eric1911]

Based on what I’ve heard hear and reading I’ve done, I think the Origin is a better value than the Axiom especially if you get it 10% off at Brownells like some people do.

I think so. Why ppl are spending 900+ to buy AXIOM? They, of course, can get an Origin with 800+
Do you consider Defiance Tenacity? This year they offer integral recoil lug in Tenacity with price unchanged.

 

[eric1911]

BTW, Brownells says "Promo codes do not apply to ZERMATT ARMS brand products. "
How do you get 10% off?

 

[b6graham]

BTW, Brownells says "Promo codes do not apply to ZERMATT ARMS brand products. "
How do you get 10% off?

they probably realized this and changed it shortly

 

[smacha538]

BTW, Brownells says "Promo codes do not apply to ZERMATT ARMS brand products. "
How do you get 10% off?

I recently bought my TL3 from brownells. When I first went to the site, a screen popped up about a birthday discount. Enter that days date, and received an $10 of coupon. Used that on my purchase. Basically negated the“FFL fee”. It was the only place I could find the AICS magwell cut in stock.

 

[b6graham]

I recently bought my TL3 from brownells. When I first went to the site, a screen popped up about a birthday discount. Enter that days date, and received an $10 of coupon. Used that on my purchase. Basically negated the“FFL fee”. It was the only place I could find the AICS magwell cut in stock.

when Zermatt actions were first posted on Brownells the normal 10% worked. i bet they sold quite a few before realizing their error

 

[mjh30]

Have an Axiom, no issues presently, I like the 3 lug design and short bolt throw, ran it 6 dasher for a while no issues.

 

[wade2big]

I had MPA build me a 6BR on an Axiom. I had zero issues with it but when I reached out to Curtis Customs with basic questions, I never got a response. Thankfully, Phil at MPA always stepped up and answered my numerous questions. MPA also ground the bolt down to fix apparent feeding issues spoken about above. I would never buy another Curtis Customs action again. On my new rifle build, I am building on a Lone Peak Arms and the customer service has been great.

There is no feeding issues with the Axioms. Never was. I have had four and you can stand on the rifle and cycle the action. The bolt does not cause issues with these. Are you 100 percent sure that MPA actually did anything to the bolt? I dont know why they would unless the 6br causes issues.

The Vector is the action that seems to be troublesome. I would also have a problem with Joel’s tactics considering he is now bad mouthing the Vector as a flawed design only after making a few changes to the the Zeus somewhat recently. He didn’t seem to think it was junk when he chose to start a brand new company using that same exact action just rebranded under a different name. Seems shady to start a company using the exact same design that he apparently left Curtis over because they wouldn't update, go public with it all, and then sell the same exact action as a Zues. He didnt seem to have issues when he was selling them himself. It was only an issue AFTER he made changes. Think about that.

Now if Curtis is having customer service issues and wont stand behind their product then that is on them. I never had issues with mine so I cant personally say.

 

[S3th]

There is no feeding issues with the Axioms. Never was. I have had four and you can stand on the rifle and cycle the action. The bolt does not cause issues with these. Are you 100 percent sure that MPA actually did anything to the bolt? I dont know why they would unless the 6br causes issues.

The Vector is the action that seems to be troublesome. I would also have a problem with Joel’s tactics considering he is now bad mouthing the Vector as a flawed design only after making a few changes to the the Zeus somewhat recently. He didn’t seem to think it was junk when he chose to start a brand new company using that same exact action just rebranded under a different name. Seems shady to start a company using the exact same design that he apparently left Curtis over because they wouldn't update, go public with it all, and then sell the same exact action as a Zues. He didnt seem to have issues when he was selling them himself. It was only an issue AFTER he made changes. Think about that.

Now if Curtis is having customer service issues and wont stand behind their product then that is on them. I never had issues with mine so I cant personally say.

When I spoke to Phil in late 2018/early 2019, he told me that they ground the bolt faces on their rifles - which may no longer be required. This was so they could offer prefits for the Axiom actions they send out the door. I initially misspoke in the above comment and have updated. I guess reading the prior comments my mind was thinking of that when typing why they ground the bolt faces.

I never experienced any issues with my Axiom, however, I will restate that I will never own another due to poor customer service.

I have no relationship with Terminus but I have reached out one time with a question about their action(s). I recieved a response within a short period of time.

 

[EastCOYotes]

There is no feeding issues with the Axioms. Never was. I have had four and you can stand on the rifle and cycle the action. The bolt does not cause issues with these. Are you 100 percent sure that MPA actually did anything to the bolt? I dont know why they would unless the 6br causes issues.

The Vector is the action that seems to be troublesome. I would also have a problem with Joel’s tactics considering he is now bad mouthing the Vector as a flawed design only after making a few changes to the the Zeus somewhat recently. He didn’t seem to think it was junk when he chose to start a brand new company using that same exact action just rebranded under a different name. Seems shady to start a company using the exact same design that he apparently left Curtis over because they wouldn't update, go public with it all, and then sell the same exact action as a Zues. He didnt seem to have issues when he was selling them himself. It was only an issue AFTER he made changes. Think about that.

Now if Curtis is having customer service issues and wont stand behind their product then that is on them. I never had issues with mine so I cant personally say.

It is interesting that the pricier Vector is the one known for having issues, better for a potential consumer looking at the Axiom. Good to know. Thank you.

 

[b6graham]

It is interesting that the pricier Vector is the one known for having issues, better for a potential consumer looking at the Axiom. Good to know. Thank you.

pretty sure they're the same bolts

 

[wade2big]

pretty sure they're the same bolts

Yes but the Axiom is cut for AI single stack and vector is AW cut. There lies the issues. The Axiom is not the trouble action.

 

[b6graham]

Yes but the Axiom is cut for AI single stack and vector is AW cut. There lies the issues. The Axiom is not the trouble action.

right

trouble still lies with owner/CS/vector

 

[wade2big]

right

trouble still lies with owner/CS/vector

I acknowledged that could be the case. I dont have first hand account of that. I am just making sure guys understand the Axiom is a grood action and there isn’t any feeding issues. I also pointed out the hypocrisy of the owner of Terminus as well in his bashing of the Vector action when he himself started a company based on that exact action. The guys that bought the initial release of the Zues should be pissed considering the owner of the company says they suck. Guys should know that as well considering when the Terminus thread started that is when this Curtis bashing seemed to take off ad well. I have no skin in the game either way.

 

[b6graham]

it well made very public the first actions did not have the revisions and that those would come soon

the public bashing of curtis started before terminus split. lots of people knew a lot about it but didnt/havent said anything. and likely never will

 

[eric1911]

Does anybody recommend the 2020 Defiance tenacity?
It got the integral recoil lug and is compatible with prefit barrels of Ruckus.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

I have a Curtis axiom and it's one of the nicest actions I've had. Mine has been flawless. Can't speak for customer service.
That being said.... my next build I've been eyeballing the origin just cuz I wanna try something different.

I do love the short throw on the axiom tho ..

 

[LawnMM]

I am wondering why Axiom MSRP is higher than Origin MSRP.

It's called hype, and it doesn't live up to it. It's your money. How many times have you seen somebody bitching about an Origin or TL3?