Bottleneck case length under 1.4”?

[HSNARC]

The state house in IL is currently deciding on a new piece of legislation allowing us to hunt deer with rifles chambered in cartridges currently legal in pistols and revolvers.

The current law allows for straight walled cartridges of and length over .30 500ft/lbs and bottleneck cartridges over .30 and with a case length under 1.4” so if this legislation passes witch it might actually. I’d be looking to hot rod a .300 blackout with heavy .30’s at supersonic speeds.

The big smart deer hide in plain in small islands or just out in the open but at 300-600 yards during gun season.

Is there a short fat case alternative to the .300? Can that little case push the 155 class bullets to 2000fps?

Any ideas?

 

[RTH1800]

neck up a WSS mag case.

 

[Bradu]

This is what a local gunsmith chambered a few pistols in, which sounds about like what you want. It is a wildcat and requires case forming though. It is a 30 wagsel.

Single shot pistol for Illinois

Can anyone help my with this. Wanting to build a pistol to take to ILl. for whitetail. It must be at least 30cal with a case length not to exceed 1.4". It must also be as a factory load with published ballistic data. This means not 7.62x39 or 30AR. I have found the 300 whisper but not that...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[lash]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but 300 BO is not a straight walled cartridge, officially.

 

[spife7980]

The state house in IL is currently deciding on a new piece of legislation allowing us to hunt deer with rifles chambered in cartridges currently legal in pistols and revolvers.

The current law allows for straight walled cartridges of and length over .30 500ft/lbs and bottleneck cartridges over .30 and with a case length under 1.4” so if this legislation passes witch it might actually. I’d be looking to hot rod a .300 blackout with heavy .30’s at supersonic speeds.

The big smart deer hide in plain in small islands or just out in the open but at 300-600 yards during gun season.

Is there a short fat case alternative to the .300? Can that little case push the 155 class bullets to 2000fps?

Any ideas?

My 16" 300 BO pushes a 150 gameking at 1800 using cfeblk and its not far fromthe max.
My 10" 300 pushes a 125 gk that same speed with cfeblk.

Youre going to be hard pressed to push it up to the 2k fps mark IMO. The blackout is great for shooting pigs at night at 50 yards. It sucks for pretty much everything else except providing a challenge.

 

[lash]

Out of curiosity, I looked up current cartridge requirements in Illinois, here:

Hunting

www.dnr.illinois.gov

For straight walled cartridges there is no case length restriction, so if they decide to allow you use of any of the currently legislated pistol cartridges, you could use you AR for my current new favorite straight walled hunting cartridge, the 350 Legend.

Over 900 ft.lbs. of energy at 200 yards with a .357 dia. 150g XP projectile from a small frame AR.

350 Legend Hunting Cartridge | Winchester Ammunition

Introducing the 350 Legend, the world's fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge, an excellent choice for hunters and sport shooters.

winchester.com

 

[HSNARC]

Thanks guys, seriously I’ll probably just end up with a 45-70 lever gun or a .300 bo.

I was just curious if there was someone out there making some sort of “.338 loophole” for these instances just to stick it to state bureaucracy’s which have absolutely no idea what hunting is like.

 

[HSNARC]

Also if one were to go full out, why couldn’t you figure out a way to load modern .510 projectiles in a bolt gun chambered (fast twist custom barrel of course) in something like 50-90,110,120 sharps. A 750 a-max at 1300fps is still a pretty serious round out to 600.

 

[Bradu]

Personally as an Illinois resident myself, I would say forget about these neutered rifle rounds and get a good muzzleloader. I really considered a muzzleloader conversion for my Desert tech, if I remember correctly, they were shooting sub moa out to 900 yards with more than enough energy to do what you are wanting. Only downside is you better make sure the shot counts since it takes a little but to reload.

 

[lash]

Just an FYI, Ruger, Winchester and Savage are makers that are already offering off the shelf rifles in the new 350 Legend:

Ruger Releases 3 Rifles in 350 Legend

Hunters in straight-walled states rejoice—Ruger has two bolt guns and an AR in the hot new cartridges headed your way.

www.range365.com

350 LEGEND Bolt Action Rifles for Sale Online | Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

Online shopping from a great selection of discounted 350 LEGEND Bolt Action Rifles at Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore.

www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com

Winchesters New Lineup Of 350 Legend Rifles

With yesterday’s announcement from Winchester regarding the new 350 Legend round everyone is questioning what options they will have in rifles. Here is a quick preview of Winchester Models that will be available later this year chambered in the worlds fastest straight-wall cartridge the 350...

woodburyoutfitters.com

 

[HSNARC]

The muzzle loader idea is a great one I’ve read some absolutely insane ballistic numbers from guys using custom guns and sabotless bullets/smokeless powder. Very consistent accuracy too. What kind of ignition system does that DT use for a mz loader?

 

[Fig]

There was a market for an obscure, mediocre cartridge.

 

[Bradu]

The muzzle loader idea is a great one I’ve read some absolutely insane ballistic numbers from guys using custom guns and sabotless bullets/smokeless powder. Very consistent accuracy too. What kind of ignition system does that DT use for a mz loader?

It uses the same cartridge that the newer Remington muzzle loader takes.

 

[Bradu]

There was a market for an obscure, mediocre cartridge.

There is a lot of people complaining about this because they think all the big deer around pike county will be killed and that will be the end of the trophy deer. Just like anything, if people don't practice and know their gun, it won't matter.

 

[lash]

There is a lot of people complaining about this because they think all the big deer around pike county will be killed and that will be the end of the trophy deer. Just like anything, if people don't practice and know their gun, it won't matter.

Well, those people should look to Michigan. With proper game management, you will end up with healthier herds and bigger deer. Huge unculled deer populations result in sickly deer populations and smaller deer, not larger healthy deer.

 

[Fig]

Fucking retarded. Dude in my office has a family farm in Pike and hunts an inline muzzy that will outperform a .30-06. Yea, one shot, but I've probably shot twice at a deer once in my life. This is just more Springfield Chicago bullshit, and it always has been. It's anti-hunting and anti-gun leftists trying to restrict and hurt down state, which they despise and hate.

Good on the massively outnumbered. down state legislators getting a little sugar. What did they have to give up for this?

The harvest and management has very little to do with why IL white tails are the best in the country. The fact that it's flat as a pancake and corn (and soybeans where there isn't corn) in every direction for a full tank of gas is why the deer get so massive. Makes our little stringy, ridge running Missouri deer look like actual goats.

 

[HSNARC]

Also if we can extend our effective ranges more of us will have success in less wooded areas rather than trying to cram onto the 17 acres of woods left in each county. I know many places where I could sit in a brushy ditch or old barn etc if I had an effective range of 300-500 yards.

 

[Bradu]

Fucking retarded. Dude in my office has a family farm in Pike and hunts an inline muzzy that will outperform a .30-06. Yea, one shot, but I've probably shot twice at a deer once in my life. This is just more Springfield Chicago bullshit, and it always has been. It's anti-hunting and anti-gun leftists trying to restrict and hurt down state, which they despise and hate.

Good on the massively outnumbered. down state legislators getting a little sugar. What did they have to give up for this?

The harvest and management has very little to do with why IL white tails are the best in the country. The fact that it's flat as a pancake and corn (and soybeans where there isn't corn) in every direction for a full tank of gas is why the deer get so massive. Makes our little stringy, ridge running Missouri deer look like actual goats.

The way the state sells out of state tags is a bigger issue than the gun used. Where I was hunting in Missouri has some nice deer but its flat farm ground as well. The two deer are from Missouri on my father in law's property. A nice on was killed last year but I don't have a picture. I'm pretty sure it was the same genetics as the one on the wall.

I don't think they gave anything up, I think it is a way to draw in more out of state hunters for more revenue. That is what has been mentioned by a retired game warden and it sounds about right for this broke ass state.

Also if we can extend our effective ranges more of us will have success in less wooded areas rather than trying to cram onto the 17 acres of woods left in each county. I know many places where I could sit in a brushy ditch or old barn etc if I had an effective range of 300-500 yards.

I agree, there is less and less timber every year. The deer are smart enough to go lay down in the fields come deer season which is why I have really considered the muzzle loader option. I don't have that many places to hunt anymore so it's hard to justify buying one.

 

[Fig]

Those are gorgeous. Definitely North of I-70.
I hunt on the Ozark Plateau from St. Louis down to Rolla. Dense forested hills all the way. We get some nice racks, but deer who eat acorns and low browse just don't get thick bodied and massive like deer who have never seen a hill and eat as much corn as they want.

 

[Bradu]

Yeah, the place is up by Monroe city. There have been a few years nobody hunted that property so they have had a chance to get big. The deer down in southern Missouri are definitely smaller. I haven't hunted that property for several years, I had those on camera that year but ended up having to work both Saturdays so I didn't go. Father in law ended up taking my memory card out of my camera so he knew the big one was there. It was about 70 yards from his stand.

 

[Old enough to know better]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but 300 BO is not a straight walled cartridge, officially.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but 300 BO is not a straight walled cartridge, officially.

your right it is a bottle but is under the 1.4 inch max case length

 

[lash]

your right it is a bottle but is under the 1.4 inch max case length

Good point. I somehow missed that part of the proposed Illinois law.

 

[HSNARC]

The law died after may........soooo a friend and I have a cva paramount arriving by end of the week.

 

[FishDr]

Illinoisans should vote with their feet - go to a 2A friendly state with less taxes, reasonable people, and start a stamp collection. LOTS of folks are doing just that !!!

 

[RTH1800]

Problem is when we run, we give away two senate seats, one governorship and all house seats to the heathens.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Also if one were to go full out, why couldn’t you figure out a way to load modern .510 projectiles in a bolt gun chambered (fast twist custom barrel of course) in something like 50-90,110,120 sharps. A 750 a-max at 1300fps is still a pretty serious round out to 600.

I was working on this.


It is a 300 RUM cut at 2.10”. Use a 50 Alaskan reamer. You can use standard RUM dies to size the cases.

You can single feed using 50 BMG pills or mag fed with more square bullets.

It is basically a rimless 50 Alaskan. A friend wanted to shoot 50 BMG pills supersonic to 1,800 yards. Don’t think was was going to be possible. He quit being interested when he realized this would be launched from a 10 pound gun.

 

[HSNARC]

Why shoul I leave? They’re the ones who suck. Also tax stamps are still an infringement. I’m not going to undertake a huge life change just to experience slightly less tyranny.

 

[FishDr]

Problem is when we run, we give away two senate seats, one governorship and all house seats to the heathens.

And … which one is not that anyway? Young republican Aaron Schock who had to resign? Durbin? JT? Right. In IL, the governor historically goes to jail regardless of affiliation. BOTH sides are bad.
Don’t want to derail the OP thread or get into a pol conversation outside of Bear Pit. Best continue over there …

 

[FishDr]

Answer to original question - 30 Bellm - an Illinois original. Was friends with the developer.

Bellm-Virgin Valley Custom Guns 30 Bellm Encore Barrel

 

[RTH1800]

The old "both sides are bad" position is complete BS in the current era. Only one side is coming after your guns.

 

[HSNARC]

You mean Trump who has passed more gun control than anybody since Clinton? That side?

 

[RTH1800]

No, wrong one. I mean the one with the presidential candidate who said "Hell yes we are going to take your AR15"

 

[HSNARC]

No, wrong one. I mean the one with the presidential candidate who said "Hell yes we are going to take your AR15"

Well Beto dropped out. Talk is cheap progressive candidates can blather on about whatever nonsense they want it doesn’t affect anyone. Trump signed an executive order directly violating your God given right. That’s someone “coming for your guns”

 

[RTH1800]

OK, vote democrat with the homos. See where it gets you.

 

[lash]

Well Beto dropped out. Talk is cheap progressive candidates can blather on about whatever nonsense they want it doesn’t affect anyone. Trump signed an executive order directly violating your God given right. That’s someone “coming for your guns”

Wrong thread for this convo. Move it to the Bear Pit before you get the thread deleted.

 

[HSNARC]

OK, vote democrat with the homos. See where it gets you.

I think the homos I know voted for Jill Stein last time. Wasn’t she “Green Party” not dem? Anyway don’t get the big mad just because someone thinks all politicians want to subjugate the populace. Red or blue who cares? They want you disarmed, and the .gov to grow. No one has your best interest at heart.

 

[HSNARC]

Wrong thread for this convo. Move it to the Bear Pit before you get the thread deleted.

Apologies. I’m done

 

[crewchief]

Yea, I know I'm late to the party, but I thought this info was important to share.

From the 2022 hunting regs for IL:

"Effective Jan. 1, 2023, the legal calibers for single-shot rifles are:

• a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding one and two-fifths inches, OR
• a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger.
• Both must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500-foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
• Full-metal jacket bullets may not be used to harvest deer.

These caliber specifications are the same that hunters may be familiar with for handgun deer hunting in previous years. The barrel of a handgun shall be at least 4 inches. "

 

[Bradu]

Yea, I know I'm late to the party, but I thought this info was important to share.

From the 2022 hunting regs for IL:

"Effective Jan. 1, 2023, the legal calibers for single-shot rifles are:

• a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding one and two-fifths inches, OR
• a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger.
• Both must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500-foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
• Full-metal jacket bullets may not be used to harvest deer.

These caliber specifications are the same that hunters may be familiar with for handgun deer hunting in previous years. The barrel of a handgun shall be at least 4 inches. "

I know several people using wildcat rounds that fit the dimensions. Not sure if they have been lucky or how they've got by with it. I wouldn't even try with my luck