Let everyone you know by forum, email, phone, ect to boycott CTD. These pole smokers have the balls to ask for donations for NRA, help support the shooters and our second amendment rights, but are selling a box of 5.56 PMC for $30 a box (reg. $7.99)and PMags for $99!!! I hope they go out of business!!
- Thread starter litotes15
- Start date
AGREE TOTAL DOUCHE BAGS... i have no problem with a company making money but this is crazy wont get a dime of mine
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Count me in, it's been 54 years and counting!
Already boycotted on my part... glad to see others feel the same way.
Would you rather pay $30 a box or not be able to buy something because its sold out?
You all need to take a basic economics class, because you are sounding like price fixing communists.
You all need to take a basic economics class, because you are sounding like price fixing communists.
I watched them for years and they follow the "whatever the market will bear" pricing philosophy. Last gun ban scare they bumped prices daily as if following their own demand curve to max profits. FWIW I've seen the reverse also where they were the cheapest on certain ammo, perhaps to dump inventory? So What? It's a free market. Don't buy it. Sooner or later they will apply that same demand curve and lower prices.
Basic free market economics will soon start to bite the gougers
At the local gunstore, there are plenty of consignment $2k ARs (that are probably worth $1k) sitting on the shelf.
The only thing selling is the small trickle of new ARs in the $1100 or less range (Still marked up from $899, but at least a bit more realistic).
Cheap / reasonable priced stuff sells as quick as it comes in and most people are now more willing to wait in line for stuff.
You can take advantage of unprepared or stupid people for a short time, but after a bit people start holding out till prices become more reasonable. (Assuming the government doesn't get everything all messed up).
The high prices will make people consume less eventually which will put pressure on the prices to go back down.
At the local gun store, there big cases of .223 rounds priced at over $1 per round are not selling, just the small 20 round boxes priced at $1 per round are selling for people who have to have a bit right now.
Everybody making anything is running at full speed right now & those that stockpiled things at high prices hoping to be able to price gouge everybody will wind up being the loosers.
At the local gunstore, there are plenty of consignment $2k ARs (that are probably worth $1k) sitting on the shelf.
The only thing selling is the small trickle of new ARs in the $1100 or less range (Still marked up from $899, but at least a bit more realistic).
Cheap / reasonable priced stuff sells as quick as it comes in and most people are now more willing to wait in line for stuff.
You can take advantage of unprepared or stupid people for a short time, but after a bit people start holding out till prices become more reasonable. (Assuming the government doesn't get everything all messed up).
The high prices will make people consume less eventually which will put pressure on the prices to go back down.
At the local gun store, there big cases of .223 rounds priced at over $1 per round are not selling, just the small 20 round boxes priced at $1 per round are selling for people who have to have a bit right now.
Everybody making anything is running at full speed right now & those that stockpiled things at high prices hoping to be able to price gouge everybody will wind up being the loosers.
Its called market adjustment.
That fact that you use the word "gouging", proves you do not even have a rudimentary understanding of economics.
Don't like the price or can't afford it, Fine. Why a bunch of grown men feel the need to bitch and moan about it?
When your local store is out of business because it cant pay its short term debt, because it sold all its stock at pre-crazy prices, and now cannot restock..... don't come and bitch.
You don't have an iota of what people are doing. You think your little gun store in Texas is representitive of the rest of the US? Come to the east coast and every $2K Ar you see on the wall, is already sold... waiting background checks.
That fact that you use the word "gouging", proves you do not even have a rudimentary understanding of economics.
Don't like the price or can't afford it, Fine. Why a bunch of grown men feel the need to bitch and moan about it?
When your local store is out of business because it cant pay its short term debt, because it sold all its stock at pre-crazy prices, and now cannot restock..... don't come and bitch.
You don't have an iota of what people are doing. You think your little gun store in Texas is representitive of the rest of the US? Come to the east coast and every $2K Ar you see on the wall, is already sold... waiting background checks.
If you are a business and start selling items for $99 that you were selling for $17 not too long ago, which probably still cost you not too much more than before, (except that you get much smaller shipments of them) expecting people (even those that need it bad enough to pay the price you are asking) not to refer to your business practice as "gouging" would indicate a lack of historical knowledge and a hope that the public keeps a very short memory. People will complain and grouse about it because that's what people do, nobody likes it when the choice is going without or paying a huge price.
Take a look at what a lot of manufacturers are doing in the wholesale market, specifically the ones making firearms, many of them upped prices by a small but reasonable amount to cover extra costs or future worries and then try to allocate supplies so that as many as possible get at least some. A short term cash influx will not make your business survive long term if your customers are all going to be busy looking for anyone else to buy from as they dislike you so much.
What things are like in the East Coast is quite possibly more the direct result of the things that leaders, who were elected by a majority of people in the dense urban areas of the East coast, are doing.
However if you want, you are welcome to get with your local gunshop and have them call around here and buy all the $2k and up used / consignment ARs and have them shipped up there.
A lot also depends on the people & how well prepared they already are. In some states there may be very few prepared people, here a lot of people had at least some already.
Here is an exchange that went on ahead of me in line at a gun show where a seller had ziplock bags of loose .223 for $1 per round
Guy 1 picks up the last 2 little bags, Starts buying them, Guy 2 in line says it's too bad about those being the last ones, talks about how it's pretty expensive and he wished he had bought some earlier but he doesn't have any and really needs at least some. Now Guy 1 could have offered to sell them to Guy 2 for a higher price, but Guy 1 hands the 2 bags to Guy 2 and says, well I already have 300, just wanted a bit of extra, but you need it a bit more than me, you go ahead and buy it.
The local Cabellas for example raised their ammo prices a bit, but for the most part the ammo prices and mag prices were still similar to before the shortage, but they have a limit on how many you could buy at once & things go in and out of stock. This is actually probably a lot better for their business than CTD jacking up the prices, because while some go to CTD and are desparate enough to pay the price they want, many others will leave in disgust. For Cabellas, they get more traffic as people will keep coming back looking for stuff / picking up their max amount allowed & buying extra things as they are looking around, in addition, people get used to going there, which generates more long term traffic.
Take a look at what a lot of manufacturers are doing in the wholesale market, specifically the ones making firearms, many of them upped prices by a small but reasonable amount to cover extra costs or future worries and then try to allocate supplies so that as many as possible get at least some. A short term cash influx will not make your business survive long term if your customers are all going to be busy looking for anyone else to buy from as they dislike you so much.
What things are like in the East Coast is quite possibly more the direct result of the things that leaders, who were elected by a majority of people in the dense urban areas of the East coast, are doing.
However if you want, you are welcome to get with your local gunshop and have them call around here and buy all the $2k and up used / consignment ARs and have them shipped up there.
A lot also depends on the people & how well prepared they already are. In some states there may be very few prepared people, here a lot of people had at least some already.
Here is an exchange that went on ahead of me in line at a gun show where a seller had ziplock bags of loose .223 for $1 per round
Guy 1 picks up the last 2 little bags, Starts buying them, Guy 2 in line says it's too bad about those being the last ones, talks about how it's pretty expensive and he wished he had bought some earlier but he doesn't have any and really needs at least some. Now Guy 1 could have offered to sell them to Guy 2 for a higher price, but Guy 1 hands the 2 bags to Guy 2 and says, well I already have 300, just wanted a bit of extra, but you need it a bit more than me, you go ahead and buy it.
The local Cabellas for example raised their ammo prices a bit, but for the most part the ammo prices and mag prices were still similar to before the shortage, but they have a limit on how many you could buy at once & things go in and out of stock. This is actually probably a lot better for their business than CTD jacking up the prices, because while some go to CTD and are desparate enough to pay the price they want, many others will leave in disgust. For Cabellas, they get more traffic as people will keep coming back looking for stuff / picking up their max amount allowed & buying extra things as they are looking around, in addition, people get used to going there, which generates more long term traffic.
Not even the same game.
You do have some very good and valid points that I agree with.
Generally people are free to buy and sell at prices that they can both agree on (Except it seems in some cases where certian corporations really don't want you making somebody a good deal it seems).
Yes while the sun is shining it's nice to put a bit of extra hay in the barn when you can to help you get through the lean times.
There is a big difference however when you are engaged in buying and selling items for a living, between raising prices a bit and fattening the bank account, and going so overboard that you get a bad reputation.
This is even more true if you are a smaller store and not a huge big box chain, in which case word of mouth, repeat customers and referrals are a big part of what drives your business.
How many Pmags does CTD actually sell for $99 my guess is not all that many. Yes they are free to set any price they wish, however as prices approach crazy you get less and less sales and less repeat business.
As you said "People will buy the from the cheapest, reliable source they can, because its in their own best interest." That is very true, and people are very much creatures of habit, if you get known as the store that has the stuff in stock, but has crazy high prices, your customers will start learning to go elsewhere first, especially if other places have less quantity or availability is hit or miss, but the prices are hugely lower. People love a good deal and once the price on something goes seriously over the impulse buy price and into the "wow that is sure expensive compared to what it used to be, do I really want it?" range, people will do a whole lot more shopping around, waiting for a good deal.
What we have seen in our area is while prices spiked up hugely and some people bought at high prices, very quickly a price ceiling was reached after which there was a pushback and many people decided they had enough and would wait. While some stock is conserved by hiking the prices, there is a limit to what people can and will pay. For example, in our area, people will still pay $1000 to $1100 for an AR that used to be $799 to $899 and it will sell right away, however mark that same AR up to $2000 and it will sit on the shelf, in your area possibly $2000 is the impluse buy price and $3000 is the sit on the shelf price?
You had mentioned "Comparing firearms stores who make the majority of the money from guns/ammo/accsesories to large box stores is just dumb. " While they have very different business models, the customers have the same or less money than before and while many are happy to pay a bit more to support their local store, there is a limit to the premium people will pay even if they like you. In reality if you decided you wanted a few more mags, what would you honestly do? Go straight to CTD and pay $100 per mag? or call / stop by cabellas and walmart first to see if you could pickup one or two at $39 each? Now if the choice was more $49 vs $39 what would you do?
Now in regards to "They now have to pay for the ignorance and lack of planning. Stupid hurts, as it should. There is a reason it hurts when you touch a flame. " That is true and it is the way things work. There is one other factor however, it is in our own best interest to get as many people as possible into owning ARs and normal capacity magazines. The more people that own them, the more people don't want their stuff taken away. The more people now see them as useful, fun tools, the more political leverage we have on our side. While they are late to the party we should welcome them to our side of the fence if possible. "In common usage" has become rather important in the courts these days and keeping our rights intact requires winning hearts and minds to our side and getting more people to have a vested interest.
Generally people are free to buy and sell at prices that they can both agree on (Except it seems in some cases where certian corporations really don't want you making somebody a good deal it seems).
Yes while the sun is shining it's nice to put a bit of extra hay in the barn when you can to help you get through the lean times.
There is a big difference however when you are engaged in buying and selling items for a living, between raising prices a bit and fattening the bank account, and going so overboard that you get a bad reputation.
This is even more true if you are a smaller store and not a huge big box chain, in which case word of mouth, repeat customers and referrals are a big part of what drives your business.
How many Pmags does CTD actually sell for $99 my guess is not all that many. Yes they are free to set any price they wish, however as prices approach crazy you get less and less sales and less repeat business.
As you said "People will buy the from the cheapest, reliable source they can, because its in their own best interest." That is very true, and people are very much creatures of habit, if you get known as the store that has the stuff in stock, but has crazy high prices, your customers will start learning to go elsewhere first, especially if other places have less quantity or availability is hit or miss, but the prices are hugely lower. People love a good deal and once the price on something goes seriously over the impulse buy price and into the "wow that is sure expensive compared to what it used to be, do I really want it?" range, people will do a whole lot more shopping around, waiting for a good deal.
What we have seen in our area is while prices spiked up hugely and some people bought at high prices, very quickly a price ceiling was reached after which there was a pushback and many people decided they had enough and would wait. While some stock is conserved by hiking the prices, there is a limit to what people can and will pay. For example, in our area, people will still pay $1000 to $1100 for an AR that used to be $799 to $899 and it will sell right away, however mark that same AR up to $2000 and it will sit on the shelf, in your area possibly $2000 is the impluse buy price and $3000 is the sit on the shelf price?
You had mentioned "Comparing firearms stores who make the majority of the money from guns/ammo/accsesories to large box stores is just dumb. " While they have very different business models, the customers have the same or less money than before and while many are happy to pay a bit more to support their local store, there is a limit to the premium people will pay even if they like you. In reality if you decided you wanted a few more mags, what would you honestly do? Go straight to CTD and pay $100 per mag? or call / stop by cabellas and walmart first to see if you could pickup one or two at $39 each? Now if the choice was more $49 vs $39 what would you do?
Now in regards to "They now have to pay for the ignorance and lack of planning. Stupid hurts, as it should. There is a reason it hurts when you touch a flame. " That is true and it is the way things work. There is one other factor however, it is in our own best interest to get as many people as possible into owning ARs and normal capacity magazines. The more people that own them, the more people don't want their stuff taken away. The more people now see them as useful, fun tools, the more political leverage we have on our side. While they are late to the party we should welcome them to our side of the fence if possible. "In common usage" has become rather important in the courts these days and keeping our rights intact requires winning hearts and minds to our side and getting more people to have a vested interest.
I've never done business with them.
I've never done business with them and won't begin to start. They will be at Wanenmacher's in Tulsa, OK, next month so I'll be sure to tell them that I'll throw a party if the gouging sons-of-bitches file for bankruptcy.
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W54,
The market determines the price. A few things could be happeneing. They could have very limited stock, and are keeping them at $99/pop so they don't sell out. There are most likley people paying $99/pop beacuse they cannot get them anywhere else. Out over 300+ million people, not everyone is an educated buyer. Knowledge is money, and ignorance costs. People who don't know any better or those who are willing to pay, can still buy mags. If their price was too high, and no one was buying, then they will lower their prices to a closer equilibirum.
You are not entitled to anything. Why knuckle heads think that they are some kind of close knit community with these BUSINESSES, is beyond me. Take any of the well known vendors and manufactures, start fucking with their cash flow and profits, and see how long they play buddy/buddy with the gun community. Its no different than any market/hobby/sector.
It really chaps my ass, when a bunch of so called liberty loving Americans, quoting Jefferson and Franklin, start crying like little lib bitches. What they are saying is, Freedom is great, until I don't like the results. That is a shitty attitude and 100% wrong.
The market determines the price. A few things could be happeneing. They could have very limited stock, and are keeping them at $99/pop so they don't sell out. There are most likley people paying $99/pop beacuse they cannot get them anywhere else. Out over 300+ million people, not everyone is an educated buyer. Knowledge is money, and ignorance costs. People who don't know any better or those who are willing to pay, can still buy mags. If their price was too high, and no one was buying, then they will lower their prices to a closer equilibirum.
You are not entitled to anything. Why knuckle heads think that they are some kind of close knit community with these BUSINESSES, is beyond me. Take any of the well known vendors and manufactures, start fucking with their cash flow and profits, and see how long they play buddy/buddy with the gun community. Its no different than any market/hobby/sector.
It really chaps my ass, when a bunch of so called liberty loving Americans, quoting Jefferson and Franklin, start crying like little lib bitches. What they are saying is, Freedom is great, until I don't like the results. That is a shitty attitude and 100% wrong.
People were touting a boycott on CTD 4 years ago, the buyers market is fickle and fair weathered.
It really "chaps my ass" when people such as yourself get on your high-horse and run your mouth at those who are pissed for being bent over a barrel, and by the same price gouging assholes who achieved success by the very crowd they're now fucking over.
Don't give me bullshit links that claim there's no such thing as price gouging because that's EXACTLY what it is — bullshit.
When CTD, or any seller, goes from selling 1000rds of 5.56 for $349 to $999 within a matter of hours or when 20rd magazines which were selling for $23/ea are now being sold for $100/ea, those are prime examples of price gouging at its worst.
Theres a difference in capitalism, price fixing, and price gouging.
Bent over a barrel? Please tell me who is FORCING you to pay high prices? You have free will knucklehead.
You have an entitlement mentality that these business somehow owe you. You are fucking delusional. They sold you a product, you got product, they got money. That's it. You somehow forget that the business are PROVIDING you with a service or choice of service.
You can ignore logic and history all you want, it doesn't make you right. Stick your head in the sand and scream like a 4 year old, nothing will change. Even If my Bachelors Degree wasn't in Finance/Economics , I would like to think I would listen to reason.
If price gouging did exist, IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING. If you read the link and the examples, you would understand. Since you are either too lazy or too dense to listen to reason, I'm done wasting my time with you.
I try not to tell other people how to run their business, if I don't like it, I don't buy it. Free market economy.
Cobracutter, the link you posted makes a pretty good read.
Might be worth expanding it with more historical examples as well, especially ones that show in more detail the effect of government price caps during non emergency times as well. More examples of price rises making people want to get into providing goods both in normal times and emergency times would also be a good addition, along with the disincentives to production that come with threatened government interference.
Might be worth expanding it with more historical examples as well, especially ones that show in more detail the effect of government price caps during non emergency times as well. More examples of price rises making people want to get into providing goods both in normal times and emergency times would also be a good addition, along with the disincentives to production that come with threatened government interference.
Okay, umm...yeah. I'm not understanding the reasoning behind gouging prices and taking advantage of your customer base.
True, they are providing a service and no, I don't have to buy it from them. However, what happens when other vendors begin to adopt the same attitude of...buy it elsewhere if you don't like my price?
Prices then become inflated and that translates into fewer people being able to afford the means for which to defend their homes, not to mention the jackbooted thugs of Obama's Amerika.
As stated in another topic, all of this panic buying and price gouging will ensure that ammo prices will never be as low as they once were and as a result, the number of shooters in the sport will gradually decrease.
"price gouging" or not, economics class aside I feel they are shitheads taking advantage of the community that pays their bills, for this I feel as though they can gargle a cock, this is just my opinion so save the "free market" bullshit lecture. You have your opinion I have mine.
Couldn't say this any better.
You guys are still approaching this from the wrong angle. Readread every word I wrote.
History has proven and Many o thesis / dissertations have been written on the subject. Price controls almost always have a negitive net effect to the system and unintended consequences. "gouging" laws do nothing but hurt both the seller and consumer beacuse it disincentivises brining more supply into the game. Business all all about oppertunity and risk. Prices are based on labor and risk.
Killshot,
How can you be taken advantage of, when no one is forcing to you do anything? That's the most idiotic statement you could make. Now if we agreed to terms and you changed the price after agreement has been made, then yea, you would have a reason to be pissed. How can you get mad a company for doing what its in the best interest (or atleast what the owners percieve is in their best interest)? If you don't like it, then go out and borrow $1/2-1 Mil and try and open your own store. If you are too chicken shit to take on that kind of risk, then don't bitch at others who are doing it. You don't even understand the most basic of business principles, so who knows why I am even wasting my time. IF other vendors begin to raise their prices, then that means the market is adjusting (properly). Why are you entitled to cheap goods below market price? Are you a special little snowflake? Do you want Obama to come in and drop the prices so people like you who are too ignorant and ignore all the signs to stock up when you had many chances? These companies OWE us NOTHING. If you bought from them in the past, then that is the past. They have no current or future obligation to you. There is no community, that takes care of its own when it comes to business. Any guise of this, is intended to make more money or it wouldn't be worth the time. At the end of the day, they are trying to make as much as possible to provide a better lives for their families. Your argument is the equivelent of snowing children shooting victims on TV while talking about new gun control laws.
History has proven and Many o thesis / dissertations have been written on the subject. Price controls almost always have a negitive net effect to the system and unintended consequences. "gouging" laws do nothing but hurt both the seller and consumer beacuse it disincentivises brining more supply into the game. Business all all about oppertunity and risk. Prices are based on labor and risk.
Killshot,
How can you be taken advantage of, when no one is forcing to you do anything? That's the most idiotic statement you could make. Now if we agreed to terms and you changed the price after agreement has been made, then yea, you would have a reason to be pissed. How can you get mad a company for doing what its in the best interest (or atleast what the owners percieve is in their best interest)? If you don't like it, then go out and borrow $1/2-1 Mil and try and open your own store. If you are too chicken shit to take on that kind of risk, then don't bitch at others who are doing it. You don't even understand the most basic of business principles, so who knows why I am even wasting my time. IF other vendors begin to raise their prices, then that means the market is adjusting (properly). Why are you entitled to cheap goods below market price? Are you a special little snowflake? Do you want Obama to come in and drop the prices so people like you who are too ignorant and ignore all the signs to stock up when you had many chances? These companies OWE us NOTHING. If you bought from them in the past, then that is the past. They have no current or future obligation to you. There is no community, that takes care of its own when it comes to business. Any guise of this, is intended to make more money or it wouldn't be worth the time. At the end of the day, they are trying to make as much as possible to provide a better lives for their families. Your argument is the equivelent of snowing children shooting victims on TV while talking about new gun control laws.
Tell me how your being taking advantage of? Ranting like a child because you don't like a price is one thing, but honestly, how cant you think that?
I have an opinion backed by sound theory, history, and some of the greatest minds the world has known. You have one that is routinely touted by ignorant liberals and people who want to take your guns away. Try thinking more and posting less.
Its been years since I bought anything from them and I plan on keeping it like that.
I see your opinion and my opinion is your opinion is retarded
Cobracutter: I agree with you totally on your economics points.
Thing you are failing to see is that the consumer has a choice. Once that demand drops people will remember that time when CTD charged ridiculous prices loosing customers when they could have gained a lot of customers. Not really the best business plan, but they won't close because of it. When everything goes back to normal, which they will. CTD will just have to drop their prices back below everyone else loosing some of those gains they made with the 100 mags to get some of those customers back. Lets face it, most of the people saying they wont buy from them again would be dropping some Ben Franks their tomorrow if they had cheap Varget, primers, or any ammo.
This is the benefit of free markets, they usually always find homeostasis if left alone.
Thing you are failing to see is that the consumer has a choice. Once that demand drops people will remember that time when CTD charged ridiculous prices loosing customers when they could have gained a lot of customers. Not really the best business plan, but they won't close because of it. When everything goes back to normal, which they will. CTD will just have to drop their prices back below everyone else loosing some of those gains they made with the 100 mags to get some of those customers back. Lets face it, most of the people saying they wont buy from them again would be dropping some Ben Franks their tomorrow if they had cheap Varget, primers, or any ammo.
This is the benefit of free markets, they usually always find homeostasis if left alone.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Really Turdcutter, you should be lecturing at MIT.
But please in the interim, feel free to suck on a loaded shotgun barrel, and if the trigger does go off, well us uneducated communists will probably chalk your demise up to a phenomenom unknown to the greatest minds the world has seen, "Brain Gouging".
Don't tell him to fuck and die, fuck off and get hospitalized is fine, but you can't say die. In fact, just fuck off is enough, so please don't tell someone with sensitive feelings to fuck off and die, that is just plain rude.
Your last hiatus was well appreciated, bless us again.
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I think it is important that at least one location/store "price gouges." That way the really desperate have a chance to buy something. If someone really needs some ammo because they have none whatsoever, then $19 for a box of ammo sounds a LOT better than a sign that says $7.99 and "out of stock." I'm sure no one would be bitching if CTD had a great price with zero inventory...so how does that help someone with no ammo or mags at all? Are they supposed to say "well, that store is out of stock too but the important thing is they aren't price gouging even though my AR is a paperweight."
CTD is not for people who saw what was coming, they are for people who got in the game late. Now those people will pay the price for their inaction, but at least they get to play. Everyone is mad at CTD because they are the only ones with inventory and you want to buy from them but are insulted at the price. The fact is, and you know this, if it wasn't for that price they would be completely sold out as well.
I need a Hornady shellplate #16. They are selling on ebay for $130. They are normally about $30. If my backorder gets further delayed, like it already has once, I will buy one at that price. Why? Because I have a progressive press and components to build thousands of rounds but I don't want to do that on my single stage. So the extra $100 would be worth it to me. Their "gouging" actually gives me the choice not to spend many extra hours at my single stage.
Now if everyone was colluding to fix prices so that they agreed no one would sell below a set price, that is real price gouging and is also illegal cartel forming. That is not what is happening. In the US there is only one legal cartel allowed to set prices and intentionally screw you- the Federal Reserve banking system. It is costing you a thousand times more money than a $100 pmag everyone is complaining about but I have never heard a single regular person complain about it like they do gas prices or ammo prices. Public education system sees to that I guess, they never mentioned it at my school I know that. That is a subject for another board anyway.
CTD is not for people who saw what was coming, they are for people who got in the game late. Now those people will pay the price for their inaction, but at least they get to play. Everyone is mad at CTD because they are the only ones with inventory and you want to buy from them but are insulted at the price. The fact is, and you know this, if it wasn't for that price they would be completely sold out as well.
I need a Hornady shellplate #16. They are selling on ebay for $130. They are normally about $30. If my backorder gets further delayed, like it already has once, I will buy one at that price. Why? Because I have a progressive press and components to build thousands of rounds but I don't want to do that on my single stage. So the extra $100 would be worth it to me. Their "gouging" actually gives me the choice not to spend many extra hours at my single stage.
Now if everyone was colluding to fix prices so that they agreed no one would sell below a set price, that is real price gouging and is also illegal cartel forming. That is not what is happening. In the US there is only one legal cartel allowed to set prices and intentionally screw you- the Federal Reserve banking system. It is costing you a thousand times more money than a $100 pmag everyone is complaining about but I have never heard a single regular person complain about it like they do gas prices or ammo prices. Public education system sees to that I guess, they never mentioned it at my school I know that. That is a subject for another board anyway.
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When vendors raise their price and sales drop off, eventually they are forced to lower their price to market price or they go out of business. Simple economics.
What evidence do you have that this causes price inflation? The new higher prices are a result of increased demand. The supply has remained the same, in the short-term.
Again, what evidence do you have of gouging? Ammo prices will never be as low as they once were? What evidence do you have of this? They were after the '08 run. The only way prices are never going to go down is if demand remains high while supply remains static. However, manufacturers will recognize the higher demand and realize there is profit to be made and will increase supply, forcing the price down; while maximizing their profits.
Learn this:
http://wrightslandofeconomics.wikispaces.com/file/view/shortage.gif/204556758/shortage.gif
I don't think anyone here is advocating a law be put in place to force CTD to lower their prices. That is Communist thinking. Now if a group of people make a concerted effort to not buy any of their products, we MAY in a small way let them know their customer base that keeps them going in all times (not just crisis times) won't put up with it. I doubt any of our small numbers will make a dent, but I was planning on buying some of their GI fuel cans and maybe some MREs. Those prices haven't changed but I will not support them.
Done. I was never that fond of them to begin with. Jerkoffs, I hope they go out of business.
Very well said. Thanks
Exactly, and FYI, I never said I had a problem with people not liking the prices. That would be silly. My problem is people bitching like children about it, and thinking they are entitled to cheap guns and ammo. CTD is doing what they perceive, is in the best interest of their company. Can'y fault them for that.
ctd can milk me whooly mammoth. their customer service and general business practices blowed goats before all this gouging started. but i have to say i dont really call it a boycott per se when i choose to spend my money elswhere rather than stuffing the pockets of unpatriotic dickheads. its just normal. in the best of times the shooting supplies retail industry just seems to draw total asshats,like flies to shit,since time immemorable. vote for the good guys with your wallets and quit bellerin like a buncha heffers.
So beacuse they exercise free market principles, even though they sell a product you want at a price you deem fair, you won't buy from them? Assuming you read this whole thread and not just the first post, and didn't jump on the bandwagon of igorant consumers, what led you to this decision? I don't have any skin in the game and personaly have never bought anything from CTD personaly, Just intereted to know the thought process.
And they dont have a "customer" base. There is no such thing as a customer base with large internet retailers and resellers.
Cobra, if you're gonna go around and stir the pot, and if you want to justify your actions by pointing to the actions of others as being okay, you reap what you so. So stop complaining.
You admit you got a refund in the KAC Group Buy yet you continue to venture in there asking for updates, stirring up the others. I recommend you knock it off.
regarding the topic at hand, Price Gouging is defined and is a crime
You admit you got a refund in the KAC Group Buy yet you continue to venture in there asking for updates, stirring up the others. I recommend you knock it off.
regarding the topic at hand, Price Gouging is defined and is a crime
Uh-oh... Daddy's here
1.When did I tell other members to go kill themselves? So i guess its cool for members to harrass other memebers, as long as they disagree with what you believe in? Is this not an open disscusion?
2. What does the KAC group buy have to do with anything? Its been resolved. Please tell me how I was in there "stiring" up others. Is asking for an update, 'Stiring'? Not sure how that is related to this.
Well it seems to me, just looking, that you are the common denominator when it comes to your problems.
It was everyone else's fault when you were charging 3x more for a Pmag, you cite free market and then when the market reacted negatively to your actions, you complained
Yesterday you were in the shout box complaining about the KAC GB, now it was resolved but you wanted the admins to get involved,
Now you are in here going back and forth and when you don't like something said to you, we need to get involved.
Bottom line, it's all good until you are on the wrong side of the street then you want to be carried back across... I will edit and warn Milo, but honestly I see you as the problem here.
It was everyone else's fault when you were charging 3x more for a Pmag, you cite free market and then when the market reacted negatively to your actions, you complained
Yesterday you were in the shout box complaining about the KAC GB, now it was resolved but you wanted the admins to get involved,
Now you are in here going back and forth and when you don't like something said to you, we need to get involved.
Bottom line, it's all good until you are on the wrong side of the street then you want to be carried back across... I will edit and warn Milo, but honestly I see you as the problem here.
I can feel the air from the Ban Hammer
So fuck off and die is a threat now... wow, that is a harsh.
Fuck off & die, "mods" he threatened me...
Shall I translate like with your mags the Market / community here is telling you they don't like doing business with you. Die in this sense is not literally but in Internet terms as he qualified it as telling you while you were off the board, it was a much nicer experience. I am paraphrasing of course.
Fuck off & die, "mods" he threatened me...
Shall I translate like with your mags the Market / community here is telling you they don't like doing business with you. Die in this sense is not literally but in Internet terms as he qualified it as telling you while you were off the board, it was a much nicer experience. I am paraphrasing of course.
"Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits."
Has nothing to do with the gun industry period.
Has nothing to do with the gun industry period.
Are you being sarcastic here?
Sure it does, they are just not enforcing it... but every piece is in place.
The National Event, that cause a change in the climate.
The Fact that prices were increased overnight cause a supply side problem.
That is exactly this line in the definition This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock
Supply Shock, because of a single event. In this case it was two events, the election and then the shooting happening so close to each other. In 2A terms a National Disaster.
Price gouging is a made up term by a bunch of spineless politicians just like the ones causing this mess. "Price-gouging" is the "assault-rifle" of the current mess. Banning it makes them "feel good" as if they've "done something to fix the problem". If prices remain static, the item gets horded and it sells out instantly leaving a bunch of people who want the product unable to purchase except at a "gouged" rate on the secondary market.
If there is "price gouging" after a hurricane when prices get high, how could it be "inconsistent with a competitive free market"? Demand is higher after a disaster, such as a hurricane, yet supply remains static. Price must go up or it is, by definition, no longer a free market.
Kind of like when people get pissed at gun-control advocates/politicians for not knowing the difference between "clips" and "magazines" (and thus telling them they aren't qualified to comment on the topic), you guys don't know the difference between gouging and free-markets. Leave it to economists.
If there is "price gouging" after a hurricane when prices get high, how could it be "inconsistent with a competitive free market"? Demand is higher after a disaster, such as a hurricane, yet supply remains static. Price must go up or it is, by definition, no longer a free market.
Kind of like when people get pissed at gun-control advocates/politicians for not knowing the difference between "clips" and "magazines" (and thus telling them they aren't qualified to comment on the topic), you guys don't know the difference between gouging and free-markets. Leave it to economists.
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So after a hurricane or tornado it is okay if a gas station chooses to charge $20 per gallon because they have it you need it, and the fact there are only limited places to get it has nothing to do with it.
And hate to tell you but not all economist agree with you,
By your definition the free market can rise up and remove the owner and take the gas, because the market wants it, he has it and because the government should say out of it, taking it is perfectly acceptable free market reaction.
Sure he offered it at $20 per gallon, but me and the "market" (the 100 people in line) decided we weren't gonna pay for it at all.
And hate to tell you but not all economist agree with you,
By your definition the free market can rise up and remove the owner and take the gas, because the market wants it, he has it and because the government should say out of it, taking it is perfectly acceptable free market reaction.
Sure he offered it at $20 per gallon, but me and the "market" (the 100 people in line) decided we weren't gonna pay for it at all.
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