Gunsmithing  brake madness!

LongRifles Inc.

Lance Criminal
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Mar 14, 2010
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The madness comes from the QC dept on this one. This was attempted today on a 338LM. Its made in Germany. After you see the runout I think you'll agree it was made during Octoberfest.

This was filmed today in the afternoon. No Steven Speilberg, what you see is what you get.

Needless to say we didn't use it. Stuck an FTE on instead.

Photobucket:

Brake runout video:

 

Sean the Nailer

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  • May 20, 2006
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    Re: brake madness!

    Damn near speechless, here. Thanks for putting that up. As to the maker (whomever that is) they should hang their head in shame.

    Wrong on so many levels.
     

    _RJ_

    Sergeant
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    Jan 18, 2010
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    Re: brake madness!

    Hell looks good to me. It will work itself out after the first couple of shots
    grin.gif
     

    wtopace

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    Jul 30, 2009
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    Re: brake madness!

    Judging by the text in the post I was expecting a few thousands of runout from a dial indicator, not 1/2 an inch. That's insane.
     

    gunnergirl81

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    Re: brake madness!

    Just bore it out a little bit. The QC guys just probably got the decimal in the wrong spot.
     

    Jmilera

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    Jan 10, 2012
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    Re: brake madness!

    That would have been an interesting first round! The Germans were just compensating for <span style="font-style: italic">Coriolis Effect</span>. WOW
    Later
    Joe Milera
    Laredo TX
     

    rpk762

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    Re: brake madness!

    That is one of those new self-defense breaks. You fire at the main attacker and the break takes said bullet and allows part of it to go to the right and left and what is left to go forward. Now you can shoot three targets at one time.
     

    Alaskaman

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    Re: brake madness!

    Hi,

    don`t thing so. Mr. Ebinger`s brake have 3 chambers and are always high quality products. Maybe its from ...

    Alaskaman
     

    flyrodder

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    Re: brake madness!

    I had a "gunsmith" thread a barrel for a can who must have been planning on installing something like that and apparently compensated for it. Nothing a few months of arguing, shipping the rifle and can off to YHM, cutting and rethreading the barrel, and pressing in a new baffle stack couldn't fix. Guess that's why you stand off to the side when you turn a lathe on, eh?
     

    jbell

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  • Jan 16, 2010
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    Re: brake madness!

    WOW! You must of been able to feel the run out when threading it on the barrel couldnt you? What was the company who made this peice of art responce?
     

    RADcustom

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    Jun 1, 2008
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    Re: brake madness!

    They might should consider changing their manufacturing process if that much run-out is even possible.
     

    Hoser

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    Re: brake madness!

    Most likely built for those extreme rifle shots when you need to curve the bullet...
     

    Jacko Jeebus

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    Re: brake madness!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most likely built for those extreme rifle shots when you need to curve the bullet... </div></div>
    Angelina can do it. Why can't we?
    grin.gif
     

    wadebrown

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    Re: brake madness!

    this is the first prototype of testing for special forces shoot around the corner brake. Project like these are blacker than black and usually never get exported so I would keep that as a prize for you museum.
     

    icarus2005

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    Jun 4, 2012
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    Re: brake madness!

    that would have been a sight to see through a borscope
    smile.gif


    we have very technical term for that, it called CRAPTASTIC!!
     

    HPLLC

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    Jun 17, 2009
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    www.griffinarmament.com
    Re: brake madness!

    If the thread was good and the brake was tight (set screws tightened), that is awful. Those brakes are pretty spendy too if I'm not mistaken.

    The guy is loosening and tightening the brake in the video, suggesting the set screws aren't tight. I'm not familiar with these designs so I can't say how much thread tolerance the clamping action takes up.

    Sometimes people run a drill and tap when they should run a drill, skim pass with a ID turning tool to clean up the hole, and then single point thread or tap in a CNC. Drills walk and taps follow holes.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

    Lance Criminal
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    Re: brake madness!

    This brake was fitted with an $85k cnc turning center. As with all of our lathe work, the threads are fitted 1:1 with the mating part. The set screws are merely scenery as they weren't even needed.

    As for manufacturing. This piece was all mill work. The bore, threads, and counterbore should have been drilled, then helically bored to size, followed by thread milling the internal threads. This would have ensured a common axis across the length of the part. It would have also consolidated operations/setups.

    There's nothing wrong with drills and taps so long as the setup and programming is well executed. A through coolant carbide drill is more than capable of producing a straight hole. A rigid tapping cycle will run on center so long as the tool is sharp and the correct speeds/feeds are used.

    The failure in this part was in the QC. It moved/slipped during manufacturing and they didn't catch the mistake. It happens. . .

    Hopefully they will stand behind it and make it right with the owner.

    C.

    C.
     

    Shooter_308

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    Jan 9, 2012
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    Re: brake madness!

    Someone needs to concentrate on their work a little more than bratwurst beer and german boobies.

    Well....maybe he could interval them. Haha all seriousness though, that is horrendous!
     

    Pete Lincoln

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    Re: brake madness!

    Gents that looks very much like one our our brakes except for the finish, its certainly is the same design but it could be a clone or copy as there are several around (apparently)

    Obviously if it is one of ours its slipped past QC, it will be the first one that has in thousands of brakes so the % is low,This will happens in any engineering production of any component from time to time. If it is ours then it is covered by 2 years warranty and should be returned to us, a replacement could be sent out today.

    If it isnt ours, I would be very interested in having a look at it and would be willing to offer the owner a swap for one of ours just to get my hands on it to compare.

    Ive pm'd Chad to try and find out more and am very keen to get to the bottom of it.

    All the best. Pete
     

    K. Johns

    Phoenix Custom Rifles
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    Re: brake madness!

    Off the brake topic..

    How do you always have a collet that fits your barrels taper? I always see you working through a collet and I think I remember seeing how you adjust it and get it indicated in, but Im not positive.

    You're able to run everything through a collet and still have total manipulation of it to indicate it in on every axis?

    Is it supported at the other end or is the collet all thats holding it? If something else is supporting the left side of the barrel, what? A spider?


    Im sure you've explained your set up somewhere before.. so just a link would suffice.
     

    varmint slayer

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    Apr 17, 2010
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    Re: brake madness!

    I've seen the drawer of collets at the shop and there is a shit ton of them. Couple grand worth if I remember right.
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: brake madness!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen the drawer of collets at the shop and there is a shit ton of them. Couple grand worth if I remember right. </div></div>

    16c's add up quick.
     

    K. Johns

    Phoenix Custom Rifles
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    Re: brake madness!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Figure it out Keith. . . </div></div>

    Will do Chad.

    Just cant picture in my head how it'd be a good idea for everything. Ever scrap barrels with all them fancy set ups?
    smile.gif



    I don't have any experience around some of the machines you do. There's probably a lot in your shop I'm not even aware exists.
     

    LongRifles Inc.

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    Re: brake madness!

    Yes, I've scrapped barrels. Lots of them in fact over the years. Anyone who does this for a living is going to goof up now and then. To suggest otherwise is just an outright BS lie.

    Since opening under my own flag 3 years ago I can say it's been less than 10 though. Understand we probably do more barreled actions in a month than most do in 6.

    Mistakes have never been because of collets or machinery. It's always due to the gears between my ears taking a nap at the worst possible moment.

    It happens. . .

    Working in manufacturing has taught me a few things. In big shops cranking out 6 figures worth of work a week/month a certain percentage of scrap is figured into the equation. Too little scrap means your not pushing hard enough. The equipment/employees are costing you money at that point. Too much and the same thing happens. The sweet spot always seemed to be between 5 and 8 percent.

    So, putting this into $ and cents. If you fit up 100 barrels at say, $300/each that's a gross of $30,000.00. At those percentages you'd be looking at a loss of between $1500 and $2500 bucks.

    Do the math and you find that its a bigger loss if your dragging your feet due to apprehension about pushing your equipment to its potential. A fine line, but one that has to be at least appreciated.

    Barrel cost and availability makes this tough to adhere to though, so we slow down considerably to avoid having to make those two phone calls all gunsmiths dread. (barrel maker/customer)

    My process for fitting a stick has evolved a bit over the last year and a half. Were now at the point where we are very, very efficient at it. It's been working really well.

    C.
     

    Pete Lincoln

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    Re: brake madness!

    Chad i agree with you on the scrap.. there is always a little wastage.. and that goes for pizza bakers, to motorcycle makers to undertakers...,

    any how.. thanyou for your help in contacting the owner of that wonky brake,.

    As it turns out.... to my shame.. the brake did actualy come from our humble premises.

    It was shipped out on the 15th of February 2010. I was actualy in the UK at this time as we buried my Father on the 12th feb 2010.

    What seems to have happened is that whilst I was away, an employee grabbed a brake out of the miss machined box (we have a few miss machined brakes which we use for display purposes) and sent it out.

    what puzzled me was the finish, we havent used that type of finish for a while and when we did, all the production brakes where engraved with roedale.

    I am in contact with the owner and a brand new brake is packaged and will ship out on monday to replace the wonky one that he was sent by mistake.

    I hope that this thread shows that shit happens in all machining trades and more importantly, that we stand behind our products 110%.

    id like to add that this is the single brake that has slipped through our procedures in over 1500 brakes.. so the % is negligable. it is however still 1 too many for me.

    I have asked for the wonky brake to be returned at our expense so i can beat a few employees around the head with it.

    Maybe i can turn it in to an " employee of the week" badge of honour and make them hang it round thier knecks.. im sure Heike and Geoff would love that idea
    eek.gif


    all the best

    Pete
     

    lane223

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    Re: brake madness!

    I just had the honor to use one of Pete´s brake on my new Roedale Rifle (No Pete, this ain´t the write up.
    wink.gif
    ).
    I can report that I still have all my eyes, fingers, toes, testicles, etc. after using it. Here´s a few of things I found:
    1. It works. The gun is very comfortable to shoot without the brake, and the brake is icing on the cake. Sweet.
    2. It is LOUD.
    3. It screws on straight.
    4. Fit and finish of the rifle and brake match up and is great.