Rifle Scopes Brownell’s Match Optic

[Lowlight]

It's a red herring bullshit debate and the fact people continue to engage in it just shows their level of stupidity and ignorance

They want to pretend it has a bearing when clearly there is next to no, US-made scopes and the limited examples don't move the needle worth talking about. It's a cheap shot way to dismiss an optic in favor of the exact same other brands

This is the reason we have begun testing each and every scope in our class and recording the data in a God Book... we have every optic tested to date and the results of those tests written down, well over 100 students so far are entered and it's growing every month.

It's trends, which scope within a Manufacturers's choices trend better than the rest, which ones have consistent issues, minor as many maybe vs which brands have proven to test at a higher level. We see differences between the $2000 offerings vs the $800, so a brand can stand on the results of the $2000 versions while seeing as the majority of issues in their sub $1000 one. Or like the case of Althon, we have found them to be 100% in our tests regardless of the models when it comes to tracking. You can debate optics, but we test track.

Why don't we like this series of "innocent question", because it promotes a false narrative that it matters when we see it's more about the spec put forth than the factory of origin.

 

[DPS03]

It's a red herring bullshit debate and the fact people continue to engage in it just shows their level of stupidity and ignorance

They want to pretend it has a bearing when clearly there is next to no, US-made scopes and the limited examples don't move the needle worth talking about. It's a cheap shot way to dismiss an optic in favor of the exact same other brands

This is the reason we have begun testing each and every scope in our class and recording the data in a God Book... we have every optic tested to date and the results of those tests written down, well over 100 students so far are entered and it's growing every month.

It's trends, which scope within a Manufacturers's choices trend better than the rest, which ones have consistent issues, minor as many maybe vs which brands have proven to test at a higher level. We see differences between the $2000 offerings vs the $800, so a brand can stand on the results of the $2000 versions while seeing as the majority of issues in their sub $1000 one. Or like the case of Althon, we have found them to be 100% in our tests regardless of the models when it comes to tracking. You can debate optics, but we test track.

Why don't we like this series of "innocent question", because it promotes a false narrative that it matters when we see it's more about the spec put forth than the factory of origin.

Thank you!

Makes much more sense to me now.

I was asking for my own edification so if someone sees the scope at the range and asks about it I could say it was made at the same place _____ was.

As you point out though, that could lead to a bad assumption.

 

[AIKNOWU]

This site can offer some insights that folks with an interest in the conversation of the previous dozen posts might appreciate:

Japan Optical Co., Ltd., Japan, 〒520-3024 Shiga-ken, Rittō-shi, Ogaki, 5 Chome−13−5 セブンイレブン栗東小柿５丁目店 | Supplier Report — Panjiva

Japan Optical Co., Ltd. at Japan, 〒520-3024 Shiga-ken, Rittō-shi, Ogaki, 5 Chome−13−5 セブンイレブン栗東小柿５丁目店. Find their customers, contact information, and details on 190 shipments.

panjiva.com

 

[fdkay]

Figured I'd chime in.
Here is a Brownell's rep at shot show.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I wish the warranty was transferable.

 

[Basher]

I wish the warranty was transferable.

Kind of a resale killer, and probably a bit off-putting for many here who either like to try everything before deciding, or who want to upgrade at a later date. I’ve eyed them a few times, but knowing I’ll take a serious dive on resale when the time comes to upgrade, or that buying used nets me a product with limited support (unless I pay additional for it) has made me refrain from taking the jump. Lots of other optics of similar or better quality in the same price bracket with full, transferable support!

 

[JeffLebowski]

Kind of a resale killer, and probably a bit off-putting for many here who either like to try everything before deciding, or who want to upgrade at a later date. I’ve eyed them a few times, but knowing I’ll take a serious dive on resale when the time comes to upgrade, or that buying used nets me a product with limited support (unless I pay additional for it) has made me refrain from taking the jump. Lots of other optics of similar or better quality in the same price bracket with full, transferable support!

Exactly. Brownells killed the resale on these with that decision.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Are you guys forgetting about the, Guaranteed. Forever.® Warranty?

They even have a link to the forever guaranty on the MPO's product page.

BROWNELLS - MATCH PRECISION OPTIC® (MPO) 5-25X56MM RIFLE SCOPE

If you don't like it, send that SOB back to them. If it's withing the 45 days then your get your cash back. If it's after 45 days then you'll get a gift cert.

 

[Basher]

Are you guys forgetting about the, Guaranteed. Forever.® Warranty?

They even have a link to the forever guaranty on the MPO's product page.

BROWNELLS - MATCH PRECISION OPTIC® (MPO) 5-25X56MM RIFLE SCOPE

If you don't like it, send that SOB back to them. If it's withing the 45 days then your get your cash back. If it's after 45 days then you'll get a gift cert.

Still only applies to the original owner. I frequently buy optics used to save money, but doing so with the MPO doesn’t seem like a wise move, and taking a dive on resale or being limited only to a gift card to Brownell’s sounds less than ideal. What if I want to see and upgrade, but Brownell’s doesn’t carry the optic I want to upgrade to? And isn’t returning it two years later in the name of upgrading a little dishonest? I mean, if they don’t care then whatever, but I’d still have to then sell the gift cert (likely at a loss) to get funds to put towards the next optic that I could have just got in cash from a direct sale.

Bit of a Catch22 when it’s time to move on.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

I agree it isn't a perfect solution. But if your the original purchaser then at least it's an option.

 

[wb00757]

My past dealings with Brownells gives me confidence that if I did buy an MPO second hand and had problems, they would take care of me. I had my dad's 1970's Sinclair single stage press and the casting snapped in two a few years ago. I contacted Brownells since they bought out Sinclair just to see what they would say. I didn't expect ANYTHING. They took it back and offered me $250 for it. I (being honest to a fault) felt like that was way too much and accepted a nice Lee classic press in exchange. That is just one example of the kind of support they offer and I know it does not gaurentee anything in the future, but it instills confidence in the consumer. It definitely played a roll in my decision to buy an MPO (whick I am very glad I did).

 

[Basher]

This could TOTALLY be a “Tommy Boy” situation where they think the chances of someone needing a warrantee is fairly low since, in their opinion, they’re not selling a box of crap. And by all accounts, they seem like a solid option.

However, as someone who’s had an Aimpoint T1 crap out on me, I understand that even top quality items, being man-made, can sometimes fail. Without knowing they’d take care of me, it’s a dicey call. I’ll let them get some more time in the wild and go from there. If they pass muster and I’m in the market, they’ll go on my list to consider.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I agree it isn't a perfect solution. But if your the original purchaser then at least it's an option.

Yes, but it still kills the aftermarket value.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Yes, but it still kills the aftermarket value.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's by design. Maybe they don't want an aftermarket for their scopes. Perhaps the bean counters at Brownell's figure it's better to sell new scopes for $999 and let shooters trade them in for gift certificates that they'll spend at Brownell's on something else.

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

Seriously thinking of getting the 3-18 right now for a bartlein AR 223...hmm?

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

Seriously thinking of getting the 3-18 right now for a bartlein AR 223...hmm?

I broke down and ordered a 3-18x50. Will post my thoughts and many pictures soon.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I broke down and ordered a 3-18x50. Will post my thoughts and many pictures soon.

I've got my 5-25x here, just waiting on my MPA BA Pro rifle to ship.

 

[tbob38]

Yes, but it still kills the aftermarket value.

Doesn't that depend on if you are a buyer or a seller? If they have little resale value, used ones should be a better buy, right?

 

[JeffLebowski]

Doesn't that depend on if you are a buyer or a seller? If they have little resale value, used ones should be a better buy, right?

I was all ready to buy a used 3-18x for a decent discount, but decided against it when I found out about the warranty.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I purchased the 5-25x from Brownells and like it enough to purchase a used 3-18x from koshkin. If a warranty is an issue for some, I suggest purchasing a Vortex instead of these scopes. Hell, if resale value is important to you I suggest getting Tangent Theta as that will have great resale value.

 

[tbob38]

I was all ready to buy a used 3-18x for a decent discount, but decided against it when I found out about the warranty.

Makes sense, you suppose the seller was ever able to sell it?

 

[JeffLebowski]

Makes sense, you suppose the seller was ever able to sell it?

I don’t think so, it sat here on the PX for $150 off of Brownells price for a long while with no takers, I can’t find the listing now. I’d rather spend a little more on a comparable Tract Toric for piece of mind and resale value.

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

Resell doesn't bother me at all. I called Brownells and they said if for the life of the optic if I decide I don't want it anymore I can send it back for a full refund in Brownells bucks. I spend enough money there every year that, that is completely cool with me. I have 45 days to assess it and send it back for a full cash back refund too.

 

[jhoyda]

I’m quite happy with the 3-18 I bought back in February. After using the reticle, I really like it. The center dot provides a very precise aiming point for shooting groups at high magnification. Dialing back the stadia do not seem too thick.

The parallax knob was incredibly stiff and is now starting to loosen up. Magnification was also stiff at first.

In reference to the glass quality I offer this anecdote:

While shooting, my buddy looks over and asks why I’m shooting at 12 power. He then lays down behind my rifle and says “god damn it, I can’t see anything that well at 18 power on my scope!”

I should hope so, the MPO cost 3 times what his scope cost.

 

[BoltLock]

For those that bought the 5-25x54, did you have to go with med or high scope rings and which make did you end up going with? Ive done the calculations and I think I'm screwing something up for height since everything shows as a fail. I have a weaver 20 Moa rail currently installed on a rem 700, 300 Win Mag long action. My barrel tapers currently but will be upgrading to a thicker barrel in a bit that may not. I don't want to order some rings, wait several weeks for them to show and then have a 'surprise, it's not fitting.' Thanks and if any measurements in particular will help I'll be glad to grab them.

 

[wb00757]

I put mine in 1.26" vortex precision matched rings I got "refurbished" (looked brand new) from AA optics. Sitting on a 20 MOA rail with a MTU contour barrel there is plenty of clearance even with the scope caps. I wouldn't call it excessive though.

 

[BoltLock]

I put mine in 1.26" vortex precision matched rings I got "refurbished" (looked brand new) from AA optics. Sitting on a 20 MOA rail with a MTU contour barrel there is plenty of clearance even with the scope caps. I wouldn't call it excessive though.

Thanks, playing with calculations I was only showing 2mm clearance in the end in some scenarios but was using butler creek caps for the calc.

 

[DPS03]

For those that bought the 5-25x54, did you have to go with med or high scope rings and which make did you end up going with? Ive done the calculations and I think I'm screwing something up for height since everything shows as a fail. I have a weaver 20 Moa rail currently installed on a rem 700, 300 Win Mag long action. My barrel tapers currently but will be upgrading to a thicker barrel in a bit that may not. I don't want to order some rings, wait several weeks for them to show and then have a 'surprise, it's not fitting.' Thanks and if any measurements in particular will help I'll be glad to grab them.

Now this is a mount not individual rings but...

I ended up with an American Defense Manufacturing 34mm 20MOA quick detach mount and it clears just fine.

Item shows as the height measured from the top of the rail to the bottom of the scope body at 0.890"

 

[Blackrifle1]

Yes, but it still kills the aftermarket value.

Whenever I sell something that has a (non transferrable) warranty- I just tell the buyer If there's ever an issue let me know and I'll say its mine and send in for repair......we are all supposed to be a tight group and help each other.

 

[Blackrifle1]

ALOT has changed since this thread began in 2019!!! There's some great scopes out there in the $1K range. I just ordered a Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR II Pro 3.5-21x50 Riflescope G3 (was $1,559 on Bushnell's website) I sent in my DD214 and got a good discount!

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Brownells has these on sale now for $899

Brownells Match Precision Optics

 

[JeffLebowski]

ALOT has changed since this thread began in 2019!!! There's some great scopes out there in the $1K range. I just ordered a Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR II Pro 3.5-21x50 Riflescope G3 (was $1,559 on Bushnell's website) I sent in my DD214 and got a good discount!

And I just ordered a second 5-25X MPO for $860 before taxes and shipping

 

[Lucreau]

just got my 3-18 in today and already need to return it. The reticle when going from 18x slowly past 17x jumps up and left, then back to its original spot. Anyone else notice this or did I just get lucky

 

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I got the 5-25x56mm MPO about two months ago and it's the finest scope I've ever owned. Amazing. I am absolutely loving it.

I admit fully, there are better scopes. I am a blue-collar, Joe Sixpack kind of guy. I will never own a Schmidt & Bender PMII or Steiner M7X1 or NightForce ATACR etc. I've played around with other people's fine & fancy stuff and can enjoy the quality as much as anyone. But for the money, I don't see how the MPO is beat. Sucks that you have a problem. I absolutely love mine.

 

[Lucreau]

I got the 5-25x56mm MPO about two months ago and it's the finest scope I've ever owned. Amazing. I am absolutely loving it.

I admit fully, there are better scopes. I am a blue-collar, Joe Sixpack kind of guy. I will never own a Schmidt & Bender PMII or Steiner M7X1 or NightForce ATACR etc. I've played around with other people's fine & fancy stuff and can enjoy the quality as much as anyone. But for the money, I don't see how the MPO is beat. Sucks that you have a problem. I absolutely love mine.

Well that’s good to hear, I’ll just do an exchange for a new one

 

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Yeah I forgot to add that part to my post- the good news is Brownell's has one of the best warranty policies in the business and they will absolutely give you a new one and keep doing it until you're happy. (At least as I understand it.)

 

[BoilerUP]

Anybody have a 3-18x MPO and do an optical quality comparision with the Bushy LRTS/LRTSi?

 

[Lucreau]

Well, these scopes are complete trash. Got my 3-18 in and the reticle would skip when going from 18x to 17x. Sent it back for an exchange. Pull the new one out and same shit. Going from 18x back down, the reticle skips up and left and then goes back to center. Sent it back for a refund this time to buy an actual decent scope. Elevation turret on the new one felt like sand and glass grinding together

 

[Afkirby]

Well, these scopes are complete trash. Got my 3-18 in and the reticle would skip when going from 18x to 17x. Sent it back for an exchange. Pull the new one out and same shit. Going from 18x back down, the reticle skips up and left and then goes back to center. Sent it back for a refund this time to buy an actual decent scope. Elevation turret on the new one felt like sand and glass grinding together

I had a Nightforce 4-16 ATACR that would do the same thing, you could see the reticle shift consistently when going back and forth between magnifications. I called their customer service and they said it was normal. I can only hope the image was shifting as well, but it didn't seem like it.

 

[Lucreau]

I had a Nightforce 4-16 ATACR that would do the same thing, you could see the reticle shift consistently when going back and forth between magnifications. I called their customer service and they said it was normal. I can only hope the image was shifting as well, but it didn't seem like it.

That’s strange. Idk how to believe that is normal when none of my other scopes do it. Definitely wouldn’t trust it. The backdrop would not move looking through mine, only the reticle

 

[supercorndogs]

I had a Nightforce 4-16 ATACR that would do the same thing, you could see the reticle shift consistently when going back and forth between magnifications. I called their customer service and they said it was normal. I can only hope the image was shifting as well, but it didn't seem like it.

I have seen a few scopes that do the same thing, but I have never seen it correspond with a POI shift in a FFP scope.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

It can be common, sometimes it looks worse. I've heard its pretty common the the 5-25x ATACR as well. It usually happens when changing directions in magnification, it will jump slightly due to tolerances or something in the magnification assembly. The whole image may shift but the Reticle will stay zeroed. It can be disheartening but if you locked the scope into a collimator you'd realize the reticle isn't shifting at all, it just appears to be moving.

 

[Afkirby]

It can be common, sometimes it looks worse. I've heard its pretty common the the 5-25x ATACR as well. It usually happens when changing directions in magnification, it will jump slightly due to tolerances or something in the magnification assembly. The whole image may shift but the Reticle will stay zeroed. It can be disheartening but if you locked the scope into a collimator you'd realize the reticle isn't shifting at all, it just appears to be moving.

I assumed that was the case, I didn't have it locked down in a vise or anything, just a little disconcerting when the reticle starts moving around in your $2250 scope lol.

 

[TF626]

A sample of one but FWIW.
I put in a metric buttload of research into finding exactly the glass that I wanted and that ultimately lead me to purchase of a 3-18 MPO last month. I was super excited to get it, there were minor drama’s and some delay, but finally after 6 weeks the Brown Gift Truck delivereth! So I took it to work to get it inspected and rings installed before mounting it on a CADEX R7. Well long story short, no surprises from what others have found and reported, BTW I love the reticle and dials adjust perfectly fine IMHO, except……… when tested on a collimator we discovered the reticle wouldn’t focus or adjust parallax beyond 150-200M. I sent it back hoping to get another one but now Brownells is now sold out and they don’t know when they’ll get more from Japan so they refunded me. Since then I’ve had to settle on buying a SIG Tango 4 as place holder while i wait for the Cronus i ordered to be delivered. Anyway I just wanted to add to the knowledge base. I envy those whose scopes are good to go but wish the MPO reticle would be copied by others because I don’t think I’ll buy another scope from a singular supply source like Brownells (unless there is an exceptionally good reason).