Looks great:
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/MOBALL.htm
Anyone have any time with this?
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/MOBALL.htm
Anyone have any time with this?
Range Report Bryan Litz's Moball?
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Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
While I think very highly of Bryan and his work, I would recommend some other device if you're interested in a portable ballistics solution than the $290 MOBALL package. For $200 or thereabouts you could own an iPod Touch with all its other benefits and get Ballistic for $10. Or if you're interested in an Android phone or device, there's Shooter, which Bryan helped develop.
Take the money you save and buy a copy of Bryan's book if you don't already have it...and buy another for a friend.
While I think very highly of Bryan and his work, I would recommend some other device if you're interested in a portable ballistics solution than the $290 MOBALL package. For $200 or thereabouts you could own an iPod Touch with all its other benefits and get Ballistic for $10. Or if you're interested in an Android phone or device, there's Shooter, which Bryan helped develop.
Take the money you save and buy a copy of Bryan's book if you don't already have it...and buy another for a friend.
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
With the package Bryan also sends you a book!! I have the Mobal system. For a field solution it has been right on the money. Not close, right on. It is somewhat a different application as the data is shot based. If you change distances you have to make that change.
My first thoughts were it would be nice if it were a little smaller, but with my aging eyes if it was smaller I would have trouble seeing it. I have no regrets whatsoever.
The individual shot data that it calculates has been incredible so long as I do my part!!!
You need to read Bryans evaluation of Moball as he states the pros and cons quite honestly. I'm a satisfied customer for sure.
With the package Bryan also sends you a book!! I have the Mobal system. For a field solution it has been right on the money. Not close, right on. It is somewhat a different application as the data is shot based. If you change distances you have to make that change.
My first thoughts were it would be nice if it were a little smaller, but with my aging eyes if it was smaller I would have trouble seeing it. I have no regrets whatsoever.
The individual shot data that it calculates has been incredible so long as I do my part!!!
You need to read Bryans evaluation of Moball as he states the pros and cons quite honestly. I'm a satisfied customer for sure.
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
I didn't realize you get the book too. However, the calculations in Moball are probably the same as the Java app that Bryan wrote (and that is available on the Berger Bullets website). When I compared results from that to JBM (which is also an option in Ballistic) they were nearly identical. So why not get a more versatile device for less money? For that matter, Litz also helped the developer of Shooter (Android) and seems pretty enthusiastic about it.
I'm not trying to rob him of sales or bad-mouth that gentleman in any way. Like I said, I have tremendous respect for Bryan. However, unless you happen to be an engineer, a programmable graphics calculator is pretty old school. One feature you get with in iPhone or Android phone is GPS-based weather, which can be used by those ballistics apps to fill in the atmospheric inputs.
Also, try using your calculator to check for flight delays on your way to the airport. I rebooked my family on a different flight before we even reached the ticket counter during that big storm before Christmas. We got home that night while a lot of people were probably sleeping on the floor of the airport.
I didn't realize you get the book too. However, the calculations in Moball are probably the same as the Java app that Bryan wrote (and that is available on the Berger Bullets website). When I compared results from that to JBM (which is also an option in Ballistic) they were nearly identical. So why not get a more versatile device for less money? For that matter, Litz also helped the developer of Shooter (Android) and seems pretty enthusiastic about it.
I'm not trying to rob him of sales or bad-mouth that gentleman in any way. Like I said, I have tremendous respect for Bryan. However, unless you happen to be an engineer, a programmable graphics calculator is pretty old school. One feature you get with in iPhone or Android phone is GPS-based weather, which can be used by those ballistics apps to fill in the atmospheric inputs.
Also, try using your calculator to check for flight delays on your way to the airport. I rebooked my family on a different flight before we even reached the ticket counter during that big storm before Christmas. We got home that night while a lot of people were probably sleeping on the floor of the airport.
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
azimutha,
You're completely correct and fair in your assessment of the advantages of the cell phone apps. For those individuals who have an iPhone or something running Android, there are certainly much less expensive options for ballistics programs, on a device which does much more than a graphing calculator.
I developed MOBALL for those users who didn't already have one of these kinds of phones, and/or didn't want to use a phone for a ballistics computer for whatever reason. Most of the points I have to make regarding pros and cons of MOBALL are listed in the following post that I made a while ago:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys,
Originally MOBALL came about because I didn't feel there were enough portable ballistics computers that work with G7 BC's. With all things there are pros and cons. Here's my no BS run-down of the pros and cons of MOBALL compared to other mobile ballistics devices.
Pros:
1) Size. Large easy to operate buttons and easy to see screen. If you've ever used a toothpick to push the little buttons on a smartphone or tiny touch-screen you'll appreciate this.
2) The TI-Voyage is not a network device like an iPhone or smart phone. Benefit here is it's not intended to work with a data plan/subscription meaning no commitment to recurring fees.
3) Batteries. It will run for months on 4 regular AAA batts. No fancy expensive rechargeable deal that you need another plug for (pet peeve of mine).
4) Features. In addition to the regular variables required for basic solutions, MOBALL also has the option to account for spin drift, coriolis, and multiple winds in up to 3 zones.
5) Accuracy. The MOBALL solution compares well with JBM and other 'properly written' ballistics solvers. See the accuracy report.
6) Versatility. The device isn't networked, but it's still very useful as a calculator especially if you're a highschool or college student in math/science classes. The TI-Voyage is an impressive tool even without MOBALL.
7) Support. Upgrades and bug fixes are made available to past/existing MOBALL users. Updates are sent out via email and there are clear instructions for the user on how to install the upgrade. I'm available to answer questions and assist/troubleshoot any problems.
Cons:
1) Size. Although its size makes for easier operation, MOBALL is larger (more to carry) than most portable PDA/cell phone devices.
2) There is no library feature that includes BC's for a list of bullets; you have to find out and enter the BC of your bullet.
3) You can't save a 'set' of inputs. Some programs allow you to save a set of inputs that's unique for different rifles. MOBALL doesn't have this capability.
4) MOBALL doesn't output tables, only a single firing solution (windage and elevation) for a particular shot. That's what it's designed for. Running tables is homework for a PC IMO.
5) Durability. The unit isn't fragile; it's as durable as any normal electronic device (think cell phone, walkie talkie, GPS, etc) but it's not waterproof. It was made for a classroom/backpack/school bus environment so it's tough but don't drop it down a rock cliff into a frozen river and expect it to work like some of the 'ruggedized' mil spec PDA's out there.
6) Cost. You can get away with a handheld ballistics computer for less money if you just want a basic, ballpark solution or if you already have a iPhone you can get several good programs on it inexpensively. But if you need a very accurate and complete solution, and you don't already have an iPhone (and/or don't want to change your phone service provider) then this is a very reasonable option.</div></div>
Bottom line, if you already have an iPhone or something to run Android, there are options that get you very close to the MOBALL solution for a fraction of the cost. I'm not directly familiar with iPhone apps, but I can vouch for the accuracy and feature set of Shooter (for Android). The only thing it doesn't do that MOBALL does is multiple winds which is an 'arguably useful' feature at best. Things that Shooter does that MOBALL doesn't include: rifle and ammo profiles, bullet library, GPS link, inclinometer, and table output; not to mention all the other cool shit the phone does like play music thru the blutooth connection of a (newer) car, take pictures and video, check email, weather, etc. I hear you can even use it as a phone!
I don't think it's a question of what <span style="font-style: italic">ballistics program</span> is better universally, it's a matter of which <span style="font-style: italic">solution</span> is right for each individual given their unique circumstances, requirements, and existing equipment.
Take care,
-Bryan
azimutha,
You're completely correct and fair in your assessment of the advantages of the cell phone apps. For those individuals who have an iPhone or something running Android, there are certainly much less expensive options for ballistics programs, on a device which does much more than a graphing calculator.
I developed MOBALL for those users who didn't already have one of these kinds of phones, and/or didn't want to use a phone for a ballistics computer for whatever reason. Most of the points I have to make regarding pros and cons of MOBALL are listed in the following post that I made a while ago:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys,
Originally MOBALL came about because I didn't feel there were enough portable ballistics computers that work with G7 BC's. With all things there are pros and cons. Here's my no BS run-down of the pros and cons of MOBALL compared to other mobile ballistics devices.
Pros:
1) Size. Large easy to operate buttons and easy to see screen. If you've ever used a toothpick to push the little buttons on a smartphone or tiny touch-screen you'll appreciate this.
2) The TI-Voyage is not a network device like an iPhone or smart phone. Benefit here is it's not intended to work with a data plan/subscription meaning no commitment to recurring fees.
3) Batteries. It will run for months on 4 regular AAA batts. No fancy expensive rechargeable deal that you need another plug for (pet peeve of mine).
4) Features. In addition to the regular variables required for basic solutions, MOBALL also has the option to account for spin drift, coriolis, and multiple winds in up to 3 zones.
5) Accuracy. The MOBALL solution compares well with JBM and other 'properly written' ballistics solvers. See the accuracy report.
6) Versatility. The device isn't networked, but it's still very useful as a calculator especially if you're a highschool or college student in math/science classes. The TI-Voyage is an impressive tool even without MOBALL.
7) Support. Upgrades and bug fixes are made available to past/existing MOBALL users. Updates are sent out via email and there are clear instructions for the user on how to install the upgrade. I'm available to answer questions and assist/troubleshoot any problems.
Cons:
1) Size. Although its size makes for easier operation, MOBALL is larger (more to carry) than most portable PDA/cell phone devices.
2) There is no library feature that includes BC's for a list of bullets; you have to find out and enter the BC of your bullet.
3) You can't save a 'set' of inputs. Some programs allow you to save a set of inputs that's unique for different rifles. MOBALL doesn't have this capability.
4) MOBALL doesn't output tables, only a single firing solution (windage and elevation) for a particular shot. That's what it's designed for. Running tables is homework for a PC IMO.
5) Durability. The unit isn't fragile; it's as durable as any normal electronic device (think cell phone, walkie talkie, GPS, etc) but it's not waterproof. It was made for a classroom/backpack/school bus environment so it's tough but don't drop it down a rock cliff into a frozen river and expect it to work like some of the 'ruggedized' mil spec PDA's out there.
6) Cost. You can get away with a handheld ballistics computer for less money if you just want a basic, ballpark solution or if you already have a iPhone you can get several good programs on it inexpensively. But if you need a very accurate and complete solution, and you don't already have an iPhone (and/or don't want to change your phone service provider) then this is a very reasonable option.</div></div>
Bottom line, if you already have an iPhone or something to run Android, there are options that get you very close to the MOBALL solution for a fraction of the cost. I'm not directly familiar with iPhone apps, but I can vouch for the accuracy and feature set of Shooter (for Android). The only thing it doesn't do that MOBALL does is multiple winds which is an 'arguably useful' feature at best. Things that Shooter does that MOBALL doesn't include: rifle and ammo profiles, bullet library, GPS link, inclinometer, and table output; not to mention all the other cool shit the phone does like play music thru the blutooth connection of a (newer) car, take pictures and video, check email, weather, etc. I hear you can even use it as a phone!
I don't think it's a question of what <span style="font-style: italic">ballistics program</span> is better universally, it's a matter of which <span style="font-style: italic">solution</span> is right for each individual given their unique circumstances, requirements, and existing equipment.
Take care,
-Bryan
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
Bryan
For those of us engineers who own/use programmable calculators, can MOBALL be adapted to any of the other TI platforms? I use a TI-89 on a daily basis, it's much more rugged than my iPod Touch (which was a nice gift, but really rather useless in a field environment like this)
The platform that you're using for MOBALL is the update to TI's old model 92, as far as I know the current 89's use the same firmware as this model (similarly the old 89's and 92's worked together too).
Bryan
For those of us engineers who own/use programmable calculators, can MOBALL be adapted to any of the other TI platforms? I use a TI-89 on a daily basis, it's much more rugged than my iPod Touch (which was a nice gift, but really rather useless in a field environment like this)
The platform that you're using for MOBALL is the update to TI's old model 92, as far as I know the current 89's use the same firmware as this model (similarly the old 89's and 92's worked together too).
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
I can program MOBALL on TI-92 and TI-89's.
It works very well on the '92. It runs on the '89, but because the screen is smaller, resolution suffers and it's really hard to read. I don't recommend running MOBALL on the '89.
-Bryan
I can program MOBALL on TI-92 and TI-89's.
It works very well on the '92. It runs on the '89, but because the screen is smaller, resolution suffers and it's really hard to read. I don't recommend running MOBALL on the '89.
-Bryan
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
cool.. I have an TI-92 that Ive had since the first year they came out. I think it was around 1996
cool.. I have an TI-92 that Ive had since the first year they came out. I think it was around 1996
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
</div></div>
Real Engineers huh? You sure you dont need a firing solution that runs on one of these?
Or maybe a new fangled hi-tech pocket version..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
Real Engineers huh? You sure you dont need a firing solution that runs on one of these?
Or maybe a new fangled hi-tech pocket version..
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
</div></div>
Real Engineers huh? You sure you dont need a firing solution that runs on one of these?
Or maybe a new fangled hi-tech pocket version..
</div></div>
Thats how we roll......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for those of us old school real engineers (RPN) do you have anything that will run on a HP?
Real Engineers huh? You sure you dont need a firing solution that runs on one of these?
Or maybe a new fangled hi-tech pocket version..
Thats how we roll......
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thats how we roll...... </div></div>
Im an engineer by degree as well so..... Just for you.. It gives you an RPN option.
http://www.calculator.org/download.aspx
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thats how we roll...... </div></div>
Im an engineer by degree as well so..... Just for you.. It gives you an RPN option.
http://www.calculator.org/download.aspx
Re: Bryan Litz's Moball?
haha, flounder, you're killing me.
Bryan, thanks for the info, guess I'll have to look into another pllatform for the software instead of the 89. Thanks.
haha, flounder, you're killing me.
Bryan, thanks for the info, guess I'll have to look into another pllatform for the software instead of the 89. Thanks.
