Rifle Scopes Burris XTR 3 vs Bushy XRS 2

[Yoteski]

I had two XTRIII's and sold one in hopes of picking up an illuminated model this spring as everything was pointing to them being released this spring. Here I sit, still waiting..... I'll be honest, I'm looking elsewhere at this point. Burris puts out a nice product, but this illumination thing is getting old. I just don't understand how they can't get it incorporated into the optic, when the crapiest Chinesium POS has illumination.

 

[Basher]

I’ve said (jokingly, or so I thought) many times that the XTRIII wil be eclipsed by the competition’s next gen model before the illumination gets figured out. If there’s any truth to it being put off until 2022, I may just be right! I’d really like to try one, but the SCR is too thin for me without illumination, so I’m guessing the SCR2 will be the same. Maybe they’re leading us on and it’ll be ready sooner than we think, who knows!

 

[Glassaholic]

I’ve said (jokingly, or so I thought) many times that the XTRIII wil be eclipsed by the competition’s next gen model before the illumination gets figured out. If there’s any truth to it being put off until 2022, I may just be right! I’d really like to try one, but the SCR is too thin for me without illumination, so I’m guessing the SCR2 will be the same. Maybe they’re leading us on and it’ll be ready sooner than we think, who knows!

I would be surprised if the competition "eclipsed" the XTR III, I have yet to find an equal (optically) from any of the competition at the under $2k price point. I've had the XTR III (both), the NX8 2.5-20x50, the Mark 5 3.6-18x44, the Tract Toric 4-20x50, the LRHT/LRHS 4.5-18x44, the PST II 5-25 and 3-15. To get better features than the XTR III I'd say the next scope(s) up are in another class, the Vortex AMG 6-24 and the NF ATACR line which is considerably more. Bushnell is coming out with the LRHS2 but without illumination, so scratch that, besides, one of the great features of the XTR III is the wide angle FOV that no other scopes (currently) come close to (except the NX8, more on that later). So while a Bushnell DMR III or the like may compete at an optical level I just don't see Bushy pushing the FOV barriers as they've always had fairly poor FOV characteristics, would love to be proven wrong but while I like Bushnell's DMR and XRS series they've always had their drawbacks with weight and the aforementioned FOV issues.

Bash, if you do not like how thin the SCR is then the SCR2 would really frustrate you as it is thinner than the SCR in the 3.3-18 scope. The thinness issue kept me from checking out the 5.5-30x56 for quite a while until I found a deal in the classifieds I felt I couldn't pass up and grabbed one, and so glad I did. In the 5.5-30x56 the SCR2 reticle is much more usable than it is in the 3.3-18, and the scope is for my rimfire trainer so I did not need illumination, this scope (the 5.5-30) continually impresses me every time I use it.

Birddog has said that sponsored shooters have already been using the pre-production illuminated XTR III scopes with great success, Burris was promising illumination in 2019, it's now 2021, and I realize we've had the stupidity that is called COVID affecting things, but taking 3 years (or more) from the time the first scope was released? The NX8 was released with illumination to start with (as most other scopes are), and even though the 2.5-20x50 may eclipse the XTR III in FOV, it is an optical abomination that shouldn't have been released to the public, but because it has NF on the side, many will sing its praises even though it doesn't hold a candle (optically) to other scopes; in all fairness it does have excellent center resolution, but a little over half way out of center it is like looking through a coke bottle with significant image distortion. I detailed this in my review below

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

 

[SirDrinksAlot]

I actually really like the thin lines of SCR2 and it's on a 3.3-18.

I don't have any issue finding the reticle and much prefer shooting with it than my Steiner 5-25 with an MSR reticle (in competition)

I will say that both the thin lines of the SCR2 and thick lines of the MSR both have merits.

 

[Birddog6424]

I was told this summer to late summer for illumination by the Burris brand manager.

I guess we'll see who's right.

 

[jhr1986]

I was told this summer to late summer for illumination by the Burris brand manager.

I guess we'll see who's right.

I really hope you’re right. I’ve been holding off to buy one - if it’s going to be another year I’ll likely go in a different direction.

I really want to wait on the xtr iii, it really has an impressive set of features and what looks like an excellent reticle for a decent price.

 

[Lastsaint21]

What rail do I have if my XTR3 is zeroed at 100 yards, bottomed out? I took the scope out of the box, mounted it in ARC rings, and needed 1 click left to zero it... Thought it was a 20 moa rail, but must be more?

My ZCO 527 in ZCO rings required 12.3 mils up to zero @ 100 with a 20 moa rail. I've since thrown a 40 moa rail on there, but have yet to re-zero.

And... since no updates for a while, any more info re: illuminated versions / reticles / line thickness?

Not saying you did this but I did.. I was 1 click away from being able to zero at 50 on my rimfire..I thought I bottomed out but all I did was bump against the factory setting in the zero stop..I moved the zero stop and I was good to go..

 

[Chickentoast]

Not saying you did this but I did.. I was 1 click away from being able to zero at 50 on my rimfire..I thought I bottomed out but all I did was bump against the factory setting in the zero stop..I moved the zero stop and I was good to go..

Yes, same, I only have 21.5 mils up left from my 100 yd zero, so factory setting was likely set up for people running 20 MOA rails. Thanks.

 

[SAR421]

I would be surprised if the competition "eclipsed" the XTR III, I have yet to find an equal (optically) from any of the competition at the under $2k price point. I've had the XTR III (both), the NX8 2.5-20x50, the Mark 5 3.6-18x44, the Tract Toric 4-20x50, the LRHT/LRHS 4.5-18x44, the PST II 5-25 and 3-15. To get better features than the XTR III I'd say the next scope(s) up are in another class, the Vortex AMG 6-24 and the NF ATACR line which is considerably more. Bushnell is coming out with the LRHS2 but without illumination, so scratch that, besides, one of the great features of the XTR III is the wide angle FOV that no other scopes (currently) come close to (except the NX8, more on that later). So while a Bushnell DMR III or the like may compete at an optical level I just don't see Bushy pushing the FOV barriers as they've always had fairly poor FOV characteristics, would love to be proven wrong but while I like Bushnell's DMR and XRS series they've always had their drawbacks with weight and the aforementioned FOV issues.

Bash, if you do not like how thin the SCR is then the SCR2 would really frustrate you as it is thinner than the SCR in the 3.3-18 scope. The thinness issue kept me from checking out the 5.5-30x56 for quite a while until I found a deal in the classifieds I felt I couldn't pass up and grabbed one, and so glad I did. In the 5.5-30x56 the SCR2 reticle is much more usable than it is in the 3.3-18, and the scope is for my rimfire trainer so I did not need illumination, this scope (the 5.5-30) continually impresses me every time I use it.

Birddog has said that sponsored shooters have already been using the pre-production illuminated XTR III scopes with great success, Burris was promising illumination in 2019, it's now 2021, and I realize we've had the stupidity that is called COVID affecting things, but taking 3 years (or more) from the time the first scope was released? The NX8 was released with illumination to start with (as most other scopes are), and even though the 2.5-20x50 may eclipse the XTR III in FOV, it is an optical abomination that shouldn't have been released to the public, but because it has NF on the side, many will sing its praises even though it doesn't hold a candle (optically) to other scopes; in all fairness it does have excellent center resolution, but a little over half way out of center it is like looking through a coke bottle with significant image distortion. I detailed this in my review below

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the XTR3 3-18 vs Mark 5HD 3.6-18. Most discussions focus on their larger magnification models. What’s the optical performance difference in the lower magnification ones? Which has better low light performance?

My specific use is on an AR10 for both hog hunting at night and target shooting (have access to a 1500y range and interested in getting into PRS). My wishlist of requirements (realize I’m unlikely to get all of them) is around 13” max length, sub 30oz weight, 4x or less low end, 15x minimum high end, wide FOV, illuminated, and a light tree/holdover reticle.

Ideally a reticle with a fast illuminated aiming point that’s both usable on low power for point shooting moving targets at as close as 30 yards and useable for holdovers at the top half of magnification. Most of my experience is shooting fast with LPVO’s (Kahles 3GR / Razor GenIII reticles) so something similar to those reticles is what I’m thinking (but obviously not exactly those). More of a DMR reticle than strictly a precision one which tend to overlook usability on the low end.

Unfortunately it appears the Mark 5HD and XTR3 are the closest optics to fit that role that I see. But Leupold has poor/limited reticle choices for holdovers and even more limited options in illuminated models, plus they charge a rediculous up charge for it. Then obviously the Burris hasn’t released an illuminated model yet, still don’t know what that reticle will look like.

So for the moment it appears there is no scope I’m aware of to meet the need of a lighter weight illuminated ultra short with a decent hold off reticle. Which seems like a category that should have more options given the popularity of DMR type AR15/AR10 builds.

Are there other optics close to this category to consider? Sorry for writing a book! Thanks.

 

[Glassaholic]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the XTR3 3-18 vs Mark 5HD 3.6-18. Most discussions focus on their larger magnification models. What’s the optical performance difference in the lower magnification ones? Which has better low light performance?

XTR 3 is going to have the edge in optical performance over the Mark 5, Leupold has excellent low light performance for a 44mm objective but the XTR III has the 50mm objective for slightly better exit pupil. XTR III has better FOV by far. Burris had some early QC issues they've seemed to have resolved.

Here's a couple reviews I did on both scopes:

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18×44 Mini Review » OpticsThoughts

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

The Bushnell ET LRHSi with G2Hi reticle is really what you're looking for, I have this scope on my SPR and even though it is 4.5-18, doesn't have enormous FOV and is a longer scope, I still love it for this application especially when paired with an RDS

 

[Glassaholic]

Specific use is on an AR10 for both hog hunting at night and target shooting (have access to a 1500y range and interested in getting into PRS). My wishlist of requirements (realize I’m unlikely to get all of them) is around 13” max length, sub 30oz weight, 4x or less low end, 15x minimum high end, wide FOV, illuminated, and a light tree/holdover reticle.

Ideally a reticle with a fast illuminated aiming point that’s both usable on low power for point shooting moving targets at as close as 30 yards and useable for holdovers at the top half of magnification.

Are there other optics close to this category to consider? Sorry for writing a book! Thanks.

I don't know what your budget is, but March has the 3-24x52 that weighs 24.5oz, if they get a better reticle this scope will become my go to DMR/SPR style scope as it's shorter and lighter than the LRHS/LRTS series with greater magnification range.

A new FFP that is much lighter is rumored to be coming soon, could shake things up especially for those of us looking for lightweight FFP scopes with decent glass.

 

[Birddog6424]

Burris had some early QC issues they've seemed to have resolved

With both the 30x and the 18x, Burris did an initial run of first release optics (200 each if i recall) that went to market. There were a few buggy scopes in both those designs. Then they had a few with funny colored turrets.

But once they got the wrinkles out from those very first releases, both scopes have been rock solid. As in, I have seen maybe one scope that I know of that went back to Greeley in the last year. And believe me, when a Burris goes down, everyone I know doesn't hesitate to tell me about it

So they are performing really well in the durability and reliability department.

 

[supercorndogs]

I think people need to get a look through these XTRIII scopes before they decide the reticle is too thin. I was quite surprised looking through my 3.3-18 on 3.3. ITs not hard to find the reticle at all, at least with the SCR. My 5.5-30 is also the SCR. I think the 3.3-18 is a very good comparison with the MK% 3.6-18. The burris weighs a little more, better FOV, bigger overall, the MK5 is a nice little package, with good glass and some nice feature. ITs zero mark for its windage knob is in a weird place, and didn't like that. The push lock turret was pretty sweet, but I don't know why they did 10.5 mils per rev instead of 10. I thought I would like the way the turrets on the Burris are marked, but I don't really. I prefer the traditional marking with the .5 mil mark standing taller than the others.

 

[SAR421]

XTR 3 is going to have the edge in optical performance over the Mark 5, Leupold has excellent low light performance for a 44mm objective but the XTR III has the 50mm objective for slightly better exit pupil. XTR III has better FOV by far. Burris had some early QC issues they've seemed to have resolved.

Here's a couple reviews I did on both scopes:

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18×44 Mini Review » OpticsThoughts

Rifle Scopes - Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 mini review and comparison to Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50

Backstory The Burris XTR II has been the top of the line offering from the Greeley, CO sport optics company for many years now. Initial manufacture of these scopes had some issues optically, but Burris was able to rectify those over time and the latest XTR II is a pretty well refined scope for...

www.snipershide.com

The Bushnell ET LRHSi with G2Hi reticle is really what you're looking for, I have this scope on my SPR and even though it is 4.5-18, doesn't have enormous FOV and is a longer scope, I still love it for this application especially when paired with an RDS

View attachment 7635080

View attachment 7635081

Thanks for that information. Yes that reticle seems pretty close to what I’m looking for. I’d really think with the popularity of AR15/AR10 DMR/SPR’s that there would be more crossover type reticles and compact scopes.

It appears that model is discontinued although I saw something about a Gen2 coming maybe with improved glass?

I will add after spending a long weekend down at the ranch shooting some hogs it occurred to me that minimum magnification isn’t really what matters (I’m usually on 4-6x on my current LPVO), what really matters is FOV on lowest magnification and FOV on about 10x. This occurred to me while looking through 10x binoculars with about a 30 foot FOV and realizing how much more usable that was than the 6x and 20ft FOV on my optic. It seems to me at least a 30ft FOV low end is ideal, and 25ft is acceptable.

 

[SAR421]

I don't know what your budget is, but March has the 3-24x52 that weighs 24.5oz, if they get a better reticle this scope will become my go to DMR/SPR style scope as it's shorter and lighter than the LRHS/LRTS series with greater magnification range.

A new FFP that is much lighter is rumored to be coming soon, could shake things up especially for those of us looking for lightweight FFP scopes with decent glass.

My budget is ideally around $2k +\- $500, this seems to be the sweet spot for mid-power optics. For my use and skill set I don’t need the absolute best thing in existence but I don’t mind paying to get into decent quality. If the ideal optic existed I could probably push into $3k if it really met my needs that much better than any other options.

Oh new mystery optic! Any additional information on the rumors for this? Even just which manufacture it is.

I saw that March, definitely an intriguing option, the FML-T1 reticle looks like it could be nice. Also just saw there’s a new March 4.5-28x, with wide FOV. Definitely more expensive than I was thinking but also very interesting to consider. Is that the new mystery optic you were referring to or is the rumor something else?

All said I’m holding off for a little bit at least, I don’t have the rifle it’s going on yet. It’s still a few months out for it to arrive so I have some time.

 

[Glassaholic]

My budget is ideally around $2k +\- $500, this seems to be the sweet spot for mid-power optics. For my use and skill set I don’t need the absolute best thing in existence but I don’t mind paying to get into decent quality. If the ideal optic existed I could probably push into $3k if it really met my needs that much better than any other options.

Oh new mystery optic! Any additional information on the rumors for this? Even just which manufacture it is.

I saw that March, definitely an intriguing option, the FML-T1 reticle looks like it could be nice. Also just saw there’s a new March 4.5-28x, with wide FOV. Definitely more expensive than I was thinking but also very interesting to consider. Is that the new mystery optic you were referring to or is the rumor something else?

All said I’m holding off for a little bit at least, I don’t have the rifle it’s going on yet. It’s still a few months out for it to arrive so I have some time.

Which manufacturer? If I told you I'd have to ........ well you get the point No, the March is not the rumored optic. I just posted my review of the March 4.5-28.

 

[SAR421]

Which manufacturer? If I told you I'd have to ........ well you get the point No, the March is not the rumored optic. I just posted my review of the March 4.5-28.

Ha! Yeah I can understand that, I worked in the firearm industry as an engineer (although not optics) and had to keep that kind of non-public information to myself with companies we were affiliated with. Especially pre Shot Show.

I just read the review, excellent evaluation. I’m very impressed that it did so well in other categories given the small size, magnification range, and wide FOV. Frankly the only reason you didn’t immediately talk me out of $3k is your mention of the “game changing” optic review coming up next, which sounds like maybe another ultra short. And as nice as the March is it’s probably overkill for what I really need, although it does seem like a 1 optic solution to a precision AR, hunting rifle, precision bolt gun, or precision .22lr. Not many optics can fit so many roles. Guess I’m waiting for that review to make a decision! Luckily my rifle isn’t here yet, otherwise it would be much harder to wait!

Also sorry for hijacking the XTR3 vs XRS2 thread!

 

[JDB55]

Which manufacturer? If I told you I'd have to ........ well you get the point No, the March is not the rumored optic. I just posted my review of the March 4.5-28.

Oh come on Glassaholic, I'm still looking for that perfect SPR scope, was just about to decide on waiting for the Burris xtrIII illuminated then you hint about a scope that sounds perfect for my needs! :'( haha

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ The XTR III 3.3-18 has amazing FOV which still gives it an edge over every other scope in its class except the NF NX8 2.5-20 but the XTR III tromps the NX8 in edge to edge clarity, DOF and parallax. I do not see that changing in the near future.

 

[JDB55]

^^^ The XTR III 3.3-18 has amazing FOV which still gives it an edge over every other scope in its class except the NF NX8 2.5-20 but the XTR III tromps the NX8 in edge to edge clarity, DOF and parallax. I do not see that changing in the near future.

What are your personal thoughts of this on a 20" Match barrel, SPR 5.56 gas gun, running a 45 offset, emphasis on precision? I know it's near 30 ounces and a 50mm objective, however it being 13 inches is a perk in that it's fairly compact. Would I be crazy to buy this for that, though I know I wouldn't use it to it's full potential ballistically?

 

[Glassaholic]

What are your personal thoughts of this on a 20" Match barrel, SPR 5.56 gas gun, running a 45 offset, emphasis on precision? I know it's near 30 ounces and a 50mm objective, however it being 13 inches is a perk in that it's fairly compact. Would I be crazy to buy this for that, though I know I wouldn't use it to it's full potential ballistically?

It’s actually lighter than an ATACR 4-16x42 which is considered by many to be an ideal SPR /DMR scope. My only complaint is no illumination which I prefer for my scopes (even though it’s rarely used) so if you don’t mind the non-illumination you’d be hard pressed to find anything better, in fact, IMO I don’t think there is anything better at the price, that is within this magnification range

 

[JDB55]

It’s actually lighter than an ATACR 4-16x42 which is considered by many to be an ideal SPR /DMR scope. My only complaint is no illumination which I prefer for my scopes (even though it’s rarely used) so if you don’t mind the non-illumination you’d be hard pressed to find anything better, in fact, IMO I don’t think there is anything better at the price, that is within this magnification range

Thank you for your response, I think I'm going to wait for the illumination, hopefully by end of year. Excited to get my hands on this scope

 

[SAR421]

Oh come on Glassaholic, I'm still looking for that perfect SPR scope, was just about to decide on waiting for the Burris xtrIII illuminated then you hint about a scope that sounds perfect for my needs! :'( haha

Well Vortex announced their Razor LHT 4.5-22x…. Is that the rumored FFP optic? Or are we still guessing. Lol

 

[JDB55]

Well Vortex announced their Razor LHT 4.5-22x…. Is that the rumored FFP optic? Or are we still guessing. Lol

Lol...idk. But that interests me if it's fairly lightweight. Do you have a link for the information on it, couldn't find anything in a quick search?

 

[SAR421]

Lol...idk. But that interests me if it's fairly lightweight. Do you have a link for the information on it, couldn't find anything in a quick search?

Technically it’s not officially announced yet, so not many details, but they teased it on their podcast today. Supposedly in the low 20oz. It’s near the end of the video.

 

[JDB55]

Technically it’s not officially announced yet, so not many details, but they teased it on their podcast today. Supposedly in the low 20oz. It’s near the end of the video.

Thanks

 

[rhsc]

Thanks for linking that podcast, @SAR421.

FYI, the discussion about the new LHT begins at about the 35:00 minute mark.

 

[SAR421]

Technically it’s not officially announced yet, so not many details, but they teased it on their podcast today. Supposedly in the low 20oz. It’s near the end of the video.

So is Glassaholic confirming this is or isn’t the rumored optic? lol

 

[Glassaholic]

I'm a little surprised they announced a HD LHT 4.5-22x50 in the podcast as Vortex has not officially announced this scope yet.

 

[JDB55]

I'm a little surprised they announced a HD LHT 4.5-22x50 in the podcast as Vortex has not officially announced this scope yet.

Was this the scope you were referencing Glass, or are you still sworn to secrecy

 

[Glassaholic]

Was this the scope you were referencing Glass, or are you still sworn to secrecy

I don't want to derail this thread so will be responding in the LHT 4.5-22 thread. Since the cat is out of the bag, I am no longer sworn to secrecy

 

[JDB55]

I don't want to derail this thread so will be responding in the LHT 4.5-22 thread. Since the cat is out of the bag, I am no longer sworn to secrecy

Haha, fair enough