Rifle Scopes Buy American?

[Wiley Coyyote]

Have been a Hide member for quite some time and especially follow the optics forum. I find it a bit interesting that although the Hide is certainly made up of a majority of patriotic Americans I don't see much discussion of "Buy American". Lots on chasing that elusive magic glass, the perfect new hot reticle pattern, and the best sound and feel of those clicks. And on some occasion, stuff on reliability and repeatability of performance, or even a tip on a sale at some vendor.

Now I have to admit determining Made in the USA (or Assembled in the USA) is not all that easy at times. Much easier to identify what is not Made in the USA.

So the question posed is do your consider spending your hard earned dollars on scopes Made or Mostly Made in America, or is that just for when you consider buying trucks, washing machines or underwear.

 

[Lowlight]

Scopes are not really a "Buy American" thing.

In reality the only American Optic out there is the Vortex AMG...

We have plenty of US Scope Companies here, but elements are always from somewhere else making it a non-issue. Parts and pieces are often from other countries.

You have US versions of stuff like Nightforce does, you have Assembled in the US, etc... too much variation to wade through.

It's more of a hassle then it is worth, the companies that support the community, say like S&B is doing with recently is a better choice. Picking companies like NF, Vortex, S&B, USO, that support the shooting community vs companies that don't. I recommend you look at who is actually out there supporting the shooters and patronize them vs trying to decipher what parts are American vs spec'd overseas and bought via OEM.

 

[...]

when it comes to Scopes, i think "assembled in america" is about as close as you can get......like LL said, most parts are usually from over seas.

and some countries are just better set up to do things better than other countries......just like food, Mexico is good at making tacos, Italy is good at making pasta, America is good at making BBQ, and English food is inedible .

when it comes to glass, Germany and Japan have a long history of doing it well, and i really wouldnt have any reservations about buying quality glass from either of those countries.

im not certain, but i dont believe any company in the US actually has glass produced stateside.

that being said, if i can support american jobs im going to, and if i see two comparable scopes, and one is stamped "made in germany" and the other is stamped "made/ assembled in USA".....ill buy usa every time.

all of my leupold scopes are made in the USA.....and i have some Japanese glass as well that is just as good.

my motto when buying "made in america" is "do what you can, but dont expect to do it all"

 

[Wiley Coyyote]

Morning Frank. I am not so naive as to think scope companies don't source varying amounts of components abroad. Happens in most products today such as trucks, washing machines, etc. I am just interested in seeing if I cannot get a quality scope with a larger percentage of my dollar going to an American company that employs American workers in the production of that scope. You named some in your message. I also agree that support of the shooting community is important and those companies do that as far as I can tell.

Mcameron puts it very well, "my motto when buying "made in america" is "do what you can, but dont expect to do it all""

 

[dannySH]

The Vortex AMG is the only the only scope that is "almost" made in America. Everything is made here (glass included) but the reticle.

 

[Lowlight]

There wa a US reticle maker but I believe they dropped the ball...

Mine has a US Reticle LOL

 

[TheOE800]

There wa a US reticle maker but I believe they dropped the ball...

Mine has a US Reticle LOL

Vortex replaced my US reticle scope with a new German reticle version when I had warranty work done.

 

[Rhyno]

Buy American is stupid.

It's that mentality that results in Remington being able to continue to put out crap products and make money.

Meanwhile companies overseas can pay all the trading fees to import a gun, sell it cheaper, and it's better quality.

I'll buy the best product for the job, regardless of where it comes from.

 

[Iamero]

This reminds me of a report I did for my Business Capstone project back in college a few years ago. It was titled "Made in China, Sold in America" and I went into details on the benefits of trade with other nations, lower cost on consumer goods, etc etc. Nothing that I need to get into now, but trade and foreign products are great things that results in competitive products, higher quality products, and American jobs (yup, American companies export billions of dollars of product too).

As stated above I will buy products from whatever country makes one that works best. Japanese and German companies have been making optics glass for much longer than any American company, so I am going to rely on a company that has years of experience rather than someone new to the game.

I wouldn't buy a Chinese made scope for my long range AR in 6.5 Creed, I'm not that froogle and some products they just can't make well. But if a Chinese aluminum handguard for 1/2-1/4 the price of an American aluminum handgaurd holds up just fine, I'm going to buy the Chinese handguard.

 

[CBDR]

Retired with 28 years active duty 100% patriotic. Every country has its niche products. Just received my first S&B yesterday, WOW, and I thought my Kahles was nice. Now I understand why Frank speaks highly of this brand. Sold my NF to cover part of the sale. The USA is the best country on the planet and everybody knows it.
Long may she wave.

 

[noisewaterphd]

I like the idea of buying American, but that is a hard thing to do with optics if you want the best. Optics are from Germany/America/Japan or some combination of 2 or 3.

 

[hamstur]

The AR and custom bolt action components is like picking a work truck ... go American. No doubt the attention to detail in hardware design and machining craftsmanship is great.

Pick optics like you would fine cutlery or luxury car where German and Japanese high-end engineering refinement just dominates.

 

[pmclaine]

I try to buy American as long as the quality is there and the goods have the features I want.

I will also spend more within reason.

American business has been fucked by its govt and to some extent American business is willing to fuck the American worker for short term gain.

Since the 70s American manufacturers and workers have been incrementally screwed and unless things change will not be revived.

American business suffers the worlds highest tax rate and does not benefit from real support by govt regs to protect them.

Sure we promote "free trade" but really all that has meant is we export labor and environmental abuses we wont allow here to other countries.

As well other countries will adopt practices that hinder imports to promote their domestic production.

As it pertains to scopes once upon a time companies like Corning, Polaroid and Kodak were world leaders in glass production and innovation but now they exist here only in name or they have disappeared.

Weaver El Paso Texas was a great scope for its time. The only reason they aren't competing today with S&B is likely do to treaties like NAFTA and our WalMart culture that thinks cheap and disposable is good.

Granted American manufacturing likely got lazy post war when we were the only country that had an intact manufacturing base but govt policy and short sighted businesses are killing the goose that can lay the golden egg.

Its across the board - anyone have a new fridge that will last ten years without a service call? Probably not unless you paid over $10K

 

[Lasor1]

The vortex amg is a good choice for American made how about Remington 700 bolt action USA made hard to beat. Leupold has USa manufactured and assembled in the US or at least etched right on my mark 4 and vx 6 scopes are both fine scopes glass maybe from somewhere else. There is a lot of USA stuff. It’s a shame that more company’s doesn’t make USA made optics like the vortex amg is made. Any way I try to buy American everything if I can help it because basically China stuff well is China junk. More we buy of it the more and more Americans are out of jobs. Yeah some of these companies maybe descent but don’t Think I would want to ever have a China scope if possible .

 

[Wiley Coyyote]

I checked my safe to be sure I was mostly "Buying American" and the glass is as follows. Five hunting rifles all scoped with Leupold 20-25 years ago when we bought em. Wife and I have filled all our tags every year and never lost a wounded animal, or been unable to see well enough to take the shot. So I guess I have to conclude no reason to "upgrade" the Leos. Five precision rifles with the entry level rifle with a Bushy XRS and the other four with Night Force. An AR with Leupold 1-5 and one with a Leo Prismatic. AK with a Holosun (made in China) red dot.

 

[myronman3]

i did the best i could with the understanding i had at the time and went with USO. how much is made here versus elsewhere? that i dont know.

 

[dannySH]

I did my part buying 2 "made in USA" AMGs during the las year.

 

[NY700]

I like the idea of buying US made. But frank nailed it when he said support the companies that support the community.

I think that statement holds true for everything. Like it or not this is a global market. I used to get into arguments all the time living in Michigan and driving a toyota. The argument against me was yea the foreign companies are building them here but the money is leaving the country. The fact is the money is staying in the country. They pay taxes and utilities here. Their employees pay income tax here and they use their corporate profits to reinvest here. If an American company uses overseas production to hide its taxable income and employees foreigner and uses profits to diversify and expand over seas it is t helping us.

Optics like electronics are generally spaced over seas. If you want to support American vortex is about as good as it gets and nothing you should feel bad about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[pmclaine]

I understand the reality of the global market and if it were a level playing field, well than let the competition begin.

but the field is not level. Its not even rational.

The invisible hand does not function in the global economy. The global economy is planned by a small group that feel so smart they know whats best for you and they and they only can create planet Utopia.

If they get their way the idea is to have everyone share the lowest common denominator of existence and hope everyone ignores the fact the elites live a much better standard of living than they allow us.

All in the name of world peace and saving us from "global warming", but the elites will have no concerns about using violence to put you down to maintain their power and their houses will be warmed by sweet crude oil while you freeze.

Anyway that's its own topic.

My scopes - 1XS&B, 2X USO, 1X Premier, 1X vintage Weaver T10, 1X vintage Redfield 3-9X, 1X vintage Kollmorgen 4X, 2X vintage Unertl.

That line up has less to do with Patriotism more to do with building historical clones.

Each person has to decide for themselves which product best meets their needs. They should consider the actual performance reviews though and ensure a product actually performs. That's the most important factor.

Second to that in my mind is supporting American manufacturing.

From there it would be buying from a country that allows individual freedom. Ill buy made in Taiwan before Ill buy made in China.

Than comes cost.

 

[bobtodrick]

Whilst I would like to buy from the U.S. or Canada (where I'm from) the facts are...the very best optics in the world are from Japan and Germany. Name me one camera made on this continent?
In no way am I gong to buy an inferior product just to say I bought it locally.

 

[pmclaine]

Whilst I would like to buy from the U.S. or Canada (where I'm from) the facts are...the very best optics in the world are from Japan and Germany. Name me one camera made on this continent?
In no way am I gong to buy an inferior product just to say I bought it locally.

I agree with that at present.

There are niche products that some countries just seem to excel at. Germany has dominated rifle optics since before WWI. I also have an S&B because I wanted the best scope.

It needs to be understood though that our govt through perhaps well meaning but short sighted regulation and in some circles by design or even at the request of business to build profits at the expense of American workers or to avoid well meaning but short sighted regulation or by signing treaties that cede competition to other countries we have made it impossible to manufacture American products.

We used to be known for well made products and innovation. When I lived in Europe in the 80s I was immediately identified as American because my US made boots were better made than what was o n the local market. My Cannondale bike was considered a great ride. Now neither Timberlands nor Cannondale are made in the USA. My US made Atlas snowshoes now produced in Asia with "Designed in the USA" prominently displayed on the sales tag. Ill buy US made MSR snow shoes when its time to hand my Atlas USA down to my son.

Cameras pretty much were an invention of this continent, at least so far as bringing photography to the common man, and companies like Kodak and Polaroid lead the advances in technology. Their failure to respond to consumer demand and recognize that technologies they developed would kill their traditional products helped to kill those giant corporations. Sure they have some blame for not going digital when they pioneered it but they also were crippled by our business environment.

 

[koshkin]

I do not subscribe to most conspiracy theories, so I will largely ignore that.

As far as "Made in America" goes, the decline in manufacturing here is a consequence of high business taxes, high wages, increasingly more educated workforce overseas and a few other factors. I do not any of them include an "invisible guiding hand".

That out of the way, it is entirely possible to build a scope here and the most recent example of it is Vortex AMG (or Elcan and Tangent Theta for Canadians). There is a price penalty to that, so it is a little harder to do with mass market product, but it is clearly doable for higher end products. Each company has to decide whether it makes business sense for them to do it.

The biggest reason you see so many optical products like riflescopes made in Japan, Phillipines and China, is that several companies there decided to become high quality OEMs quite a few years ago. In the meantime, US-based OEMs (and they exist) have primarily chosen to work in field that are a lot more high end than riflescopes.

Once there is a high quality OEM or two in Japan, it is really difficult to justify starting a new manufacturing facility here. The most common model these days is to either modify an OEM's design or to design your own and have an OEM make it.

Many manufacturers are doing a mix of a bunch of things and with mergers and acquisitions, waters get even muddier. For example, I was in Colorado a little while back and visited Burris for a brief factory tour. They build quite a bit of stuff here, but none of the Burris-labeled products for the US. The assemble the T-series Steiners there and a few other hunting style scopes for Europe. They do a good job and I liked what I saw and how they do stuff, but for the prices they can command in the US market with a Burris name, an OEM makes more sense. They do check every XTR II they get from their OEM, however, which I like quite a bit. With the quality of current OEMs, you can usually count on good product, but doing QC on your own is still a good thing.

Vortex is doing something a little different with some of their OEMs where they get assembled products (it is often cheaper to import an assembled product than individual parts), take them apart and effectively re-align them at their US facility. That is partly for better QC, but partly in order to avoid disclosing some of their proprietary know-how to the OEMs.

Every company is scrambling to do things in a way that allows the to have reasonable control over the product without sacrificing profits. If they could simply charge a little more for fully "Made in US" products, they would. However, vast majority of people who say that they will pay extra for something that is made here are lying to themselves. That is why you can only do that with niche products.

Lastly, plenty of high quality optical glass is made in the US by Corning and Schott among others.

ILya

 

[pmclaine]

I note what Koshkin states to be true when at the optometrist.

All the high quality medical optical instruments are made in USA, New York I believe.

Kollmorgen still makes scopes of sorts in the design of submarine periscopes.

So we have our niches also.

The education of the workforce.....I have a 9 and 10 year old in the school system. I might as well send them to play care because the education of them is on our backs despite the high taxes we pay to educate them.

Sure Asia has a spec build industry and will build however many widgets you want at your desired QC level. It's getting easier to do with CNC I'm sure. It's what they pay that labor force and what they do with safety regulations and environmental regulations that we have problems with. I don't think we should export the issues we regulate against here to other countries hog tieing our manufacturers and getting our workers unemployed.

People say "Oh we have moved beyond a manufacturing base economy and now we are the worlds service economy leader". Sure it's nice to have Wall Street here but that only creates so many jobs and it creates nothing tangible, it's all moving paper and subject to collapse at any moment. A healthy economy has a manufacturing component to provide work for those suited to it as well as a necessary aspect of national defense.

I understand there are textile manufactures in Vietnam that operate with labor forces that will work for family access to the company commissary for food only. Sounds like Lowell, MA at the end of the 19th century before Socialist Upton Sinclair wrote his book.

We have full WalMarts and a variety of choice in products but I think it's part of the "Bread and Circuses" plan. We have fewer people actually working yet we are still providing cheap shit to everyone. Even our poor have a flat screen. Because of this the govt robs us blind. People working harder, now both parents must work, and the dollar saved is worth less. If it wasn't for keeping people satisfied by cheap beads and trinkets we wouldn't be where we are today.

Koshkin knows more about scope manufacture than I ever will. I'm looking beyond one market though in regards to the value of Made in the USA.

Starrett Tool operates near me. It's all that New England town has to count on and when Starret goes away because people have decided to buy Frankfort Arsenal machine tools well Athol will become like all the many other Northeast towns with a big empty brick building and zombies shuffling to the nearest methadone clinic.

Agreed with Koshkin our tax rate for business sucks. Maybe something will be done about that.

 

[koshkin]

A couple of additional comments: what used to be Kollmorgen is now L-3 KEO and I do a fair amount of business with them. Periscopes are a small part of what the do and they are moving upmarket. If you like tank periscopes, there is a company in Texas called Optex that does a very nice job with them.

High quality medical instruments are made all over the place with USA, Europe, Japan and Israel being the locations I am most familiar with.

The bit about "service economy" is just bullcrap that politicians say. They can't tell their ass from an elbow. If you want a stronger manufacturing economy here, deal with the EPA and a lot more of it will be done here. However, it will be done in a highly automated manner and advances in 3D printing are going to make it more possible than ever. You only need to go abroad if you are doing everything manually or if you are trying to avoid the EPA and high business taxes.

Fundamentally, talking about "service economy" or "manufacturing economy" is just plain wrong. If you want an economy that pays high wages for making stuff among other things, it has to be a technology-driven economy regardless of the field. It requires the right business/tax climate, agility and high quality education. When the left took over the educational system was the day when the decline started.

ILya

 

[pmclaine]

Agreed.

I think we are seeing similar problems just expressing the issue differently.

I pin point the decline in education to the moment School House Rock was taken off the air. It was laser focused on teaching kids US Civics.

Its danger was that it taught the Constitution at a level a 4 year old could understand.

Cant have that kind of dangerous stuff out there when trying to destroy the Constitution can we.

 

[osu92]

The Vortex AMG is the only the only scope that is "almost" made in America. Everything is made here (glass included) but the reticle.

Huh? Leupold has been making scopes in Oregon since the '40's. All but the glass. I won't get into a debate about perceived quality or comparing scopes, but that statement simply isn't anywhere near true.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Huh? Leupold has been making scopes in Oregon since the '40's. All but the glass. I won't get into a debate about perceived quality or comparing scopes, but that statement simply isn't anywhere near true.

There is a difference between made here and assembled here with foreign components. I think the Vortex AMG is more “made here” vs “assembled here” I could be wrong though.

 

[dannySH]

Huh? Leupold has been making scopes in Oregon since the '40's. All but the glass. I won't get into a debate about perceived quality or comparing scopes, but that statement simply isn't anywhere near true.

Two questions.
Have you see any recently made Leupold scope saying "made in USA" like the AMD does?
Do you know why?

 

[Twinsen]

I'm a capitalist. I try (and fail) to buy what's good, not what is made in a certain place.

 

[osu92]

Two questions.
Have you see any recently made Leupold scope saying "made in USA" like the AMD does?
Do you know why?

Maybe not. Please enlighten me. I assumed as I was walking the factory floor in Beaverton not long ago watching all the components of a scope come off the production line and watching them get assembled they were being made right there. Hmm.... I guess I could have been fooled.

 

[dannySH]

Maybe not. Please enlighten me. I assumed as I was walking the factory floor in Beaverton not long ago watching all the components of a scope come off the production line and watching them get assembled they were being made right there. Hmm.... I guess I could have been fooled.

Did you see the glasses being made there?

 

[osu92]

Did you see the glasses being made there?

I figured it was common knowledge the glass wasn't made there. Everything else. For many decades. Like 8 of them. Designed, machines, and assembled. So yeah, I guess not stamped 'made' in America.

 

[Poorboyr]

I don't understand why Leupold gets such a bad name on this website. Leupold makes solid products and are backed by a great warranty. Yes, there may be some scopes better than them, but they are still a quality product for what you get. And to my knowledge, there isn't any scope that uses "American Made Glass." Even the AMG now uses German glass.

This extends to vehicles too. Do you support General Motors' trucks which are made in Mexico, but are an American company? Or do you support Toyota (Tundra), which is the most American made truck by far, but is a Japanese company?

I will always try to pay a little more to buy American made products, but sometimes you don't have a choice in what you can get.

 

[lash]

I don't understand why Leupold gets such a bad name on this website. Leupold makes solid products and are backed by a great warranty. Yes, there may be some scopes better than them, but they are still a quality product for what you get. And to my knowledge, there isn't any scope that uses "American Made Glass." Even the AMG now uses German glass.

This extends to vehicles too. Do you support General Motors' trucks which are made in Mexico, but are an American company? Or do you support Toyota (Tundra), which is the most American made truck by far, but is a Japanese company?

I will always try to pay a little more to buy American made products, but sometimes you don't have a choice in what you can get.

Just to prevent any misunderstanding, this is an incorrect statement. The Vortex AMG does NOT use German glass, only the reticle is imported from Germany. From their site:

[h=1]RAZOR[SUP]® [/SUP]HD AMG™ RIFLESCOPES[/h]
From precision long-range shooting and tactical applications to maximizing effective range on open-landscape western hunts, the Razor HD AMG is the ideal riflescope for an extremely wide range of shooting scenarios. At just 28.8 oz, it's the lightest weight, fully-featured, long-range riflescope on the market—putting it in a class of its own.

Nearly every component in the AMG, from the index-matched lenses to smallest screw, is engineered, machined, and assembled in the USA. The only component from outside the USA is the German manufactured reticle. If you're looking for a top-tier long-range precision riflescope, look no further than the Razor HD AMG.

 

[LastShot300]

I'm a capitalist. I try (and fail) to buy what's good, not what is made in a certain place.

+1. Buying has to be exercised with care...to your hard earned money first and foremost. Don't make the mistake of supporting a POS just because it's local...in the end they simply don't care about you or the flag. Most are following the money.

 

[Rob01]

Lash is 100% correct. The glass in the AMG is made in America. The reticle is the only part of the scope not made in America as a company that could produce them to Spec and timeline is not available.

As for the whole "buy American" thing, I buy quality and not for where a product is made. It happens that most of my rifles are American made customs and parts but optics are where I have no problem buying what I want and not worry about where it's made.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Just to prevent any misunderstanding, this is an incorrect statement. The Vortex AMG does NOT use German glass, only the reticle is imported from Germany. From their site:

First I will admit I have no idea what goes into making a reticle, but is there any reason why Vortex couldn't just make that part themselves without having to outsource it? The big hype and selling point with the AMG was the fact that it was suppose to be/going to be 100% made in the USA not 99.99% I know the quality is there maybe even better with the German reticle, but there was just something about being able to say and knowing that it was 100% made in the USA. Hoping that they can one day find a way to get it back to 100% made in the USA.

 

[lash]

First I will admit I have no idea what goes into making a reticle, but is there any reason why Vortex couldn't just make that part themselves without having to outsource it? .

That's a good question. I personally have no idea what it takes to make a reticle, but I have to imagine that if Vortex chose to go to a German made reticle, there had to be a darn good reason. For the same reasons you mention, I'm sure that they would have preferred to have them 100% made in USA.

 

[Rob01]

First I will admit I have no idea what goes into making a reticle, but is there any reason why Vortex couldn't just make that part themselves without having to outsource it? The big hype and selling point with the AMG was the fact that it was suppose to be/going to be 100% made in the USA not 99.99% I know the quality is there maybe even better with the German reticle, but there was just something about being able to say and knowing that it was 100% made in the USA. Hoping that they can one day find a way to get it back to 100% made in the USA.

If you knew what went into making a reticle you would understand. It would not be economically or physically possible for them to do it. They did use the only US company who could do it but they could not keep up with numbers or quality so they had to go to Germany. They would love to be able to be 100% US made but it's not possible at this time. If they can find a company i am sure they would use them. The AMG is still the most made in the US scope available today.

 

[JePhyllis]

There is a difference between made here and assembled here with foreign components. I think the Vortex AMG is more “made here” vs “assembled here” I could be wrong though.

+1

 

[koshkin]

Vortex AMG is almost entirely made here.

As far as reticle manufacturing goes, I am familiar with how that works and if I were Vortex, i would outsource it too.

ILya

 

[Millworks]

I think trying to support American families by purchasing Amaerican made products is always good and if you can purchase from Veteran owned companies even better. I also think when looking for quality it may bring us to a fork in the road and we have to make wise decisions. Support the USA first in our minds and do what is needed.

 

[JePhyllis]

Germany + US. However, Kahlas from Australia, IOR from Romania. They are all good optics.

 

[CSTactical]

Germany + US. However, Kahlas from Australia, IOR from Romania. They are all good optics.

Kahles is from Austria

 

[JePhyllis]

Kahles is from Austria

Sorry about that~ typing from my cellphone

 

[EGwhisper]

I don't understand why Leupold gets such a bad name on this website. Leupold makes solid products and are backed by a great warranty. Yes, there may be some scopes better than them, but they are still a quality product for what you get. And to my knowledge, there isn't any scope that uses "American Made Glass." Even the AMG now uses German glass.

This extends to vehicles too. Do you support General Motors' trucks which are made in Mexico, but are an American company? Or do you support Toyota (Tundra), which is the most American made truck by far, but is a Japanese company?

I will always try to pay a little more to buy American made products, but sometimes you don't have a choice in what you can get.

Leupold has been known to be grossly behind competitors at their price point. They have finally come to offering their turrets to match their reticles (mil/mil) and FFP line. MK8 for $4k or S&B with better glass, mechanics, resale and reputation for $2.5k? Leupold just doesn't compare in the $2k+ price range for the value they provide and tack on a few more dollars just for the name IMO. Their market is in the $300-700 hunting scope range.

 

[308pirate]

In general, I buy the highest quality that I can afford given my budget without regard to country of origin. That goes triple for durable, highly engineered products like optics and automobiles.

I can tell you that I will never buy a car that does not say Honda on it. I have never, ever, enjoyed a more trouble free and reliable car at any price.

And if I wanted a truck, it will say Toyota on it.

 

[pmclaine]

I can tell you that I will never buy a car that does not say Honda on it. I have never, ever, enjoyed a more trouble free and reliable car at any price.

.

Love my Honda Pilot. Made in Alabama and the socialist leadership of the UAW gets nothing from them.

 

[308pirate]

Love my Honda Pilot. Made in Alabama and the socialist leadership of the UAW gets nothing from them.

That's another thing many of the Buy American "patriots" are either too stupid to understand or conveniently ignore........most Honda, Toyota, and Nissan trucks and cars are more American in content than many "American" cars and trucks.

Out of the Honda and Acura US market model lines, only the Honda Fit and Civic hatchbacks are imported. The former from Japan and the latter from Honda's assembly plant in Swindon, England. The rest is 100% made in the US with an extremely high content of American-made parts. Honda has a gigantic engine and gigantic transmission manufacturing plant right here in Ohio and both of them cast/forge/machine the majority of the components that go into those powertrains. Even the Japanese-brand parts that go into Honda and Acura vehicles are almost all made in the US. Yes, they are Japanese companies, but their US subsidiaries pay US corporate and payroll taxes at the federal and state levels and they pay their American workers, engineers, and managers in US fucking dollars.

If it weren't for Honda, Ohio's manufacturing base would have almost disappeared in the 80s and early 90s as the big three shut plant after plant here.