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Night Vision buying first NV products, could use some advice so I don't screw up

rockwind1

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 16, 2017
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westworld
would like something i can walk around the woods in without tripping, also be nice to shoot my ar with it, or pistol. be cool to maybe see larger animals like hogs as well out to couple hundred yards. is this feasible? obviously, i don't know alot about them, so many pop up on ebay. i guess i got like 1k to 3k to spend. is it safe to buy used off ebay,,,,,any other used sources that are reliable? appreciate any input.
armalight and atn seem to be most popular. with the monocular headgear, can you shoot with that? i have an eotech sight that is NV compatable, not sure on my aimpoint.


 
I tell this to everybody who I talk to wanting 1st NV . Get a PVS-14, & comfortable helmet for foot travel and scanning . pvs14 is the workhorse, and used the second you step out of the truck . I see a good used one around here for sale every once in a while also .
Majority of people that get into NV/night hunting dont actually put that many hours on them, and then some are just selling to move up in quality .
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What softcock said + 1. Get an airsoft bump helmet ( you don't need a ballistic level helmet ) such as Lancer Tactical on Amazon - way cheaper and works great. You can also get your NV mount ( used military surplus ) on Amazon. Then get your PVS 14 with a J arm and weapon mount and you are good to go. At some point, you might want to get a white light ( I use a Streamlight TLR 1 ) and an IR light to mount on each side of the helmet.

See the posts by wigwamitus. He is very knowledgeable and willing to help others. I used his knowledge and experience when I bought my PVS14 from TNVC. Been very happy.
 
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ebay is risky ... in theory some deals are covered ... but putting that theory into practice is an uncomfortable additional step, if the deal goes bad and the other person already has your money. There is probably a reason ebay prices look lower than they should sometimes. That being said their are reputable dealers on ebay ... but that is not the case 100%. Learning about NV/Thermal also involves learning about the supply chain. If it was me, I would stick with the reputable dealers at first.

I have two PVS-14s and also two helmet mountable thermals. I used to use the 14s every time I went out ... and when I was driving I always wore the 14s in a dual mount ... poor man's goggles. But I've evolved into only wearing the 14s when needed. The moon is a giant flashlight in the sky, when it is there. I've spent entire nights (dusk to dawn) hunting and moving in the woods, without tripping, under a full moon and no PVS-14 used and had no problems seeing.

When I have no head mounted NODs, I just scan with the rifle mounted thermal .. by using a technique involving trying to keep my elbows against my body when holding up the rifle and gripping the 30rd magazine with the trigger hand when scanning and the support arm far to the rear on the forearm, I can hold the carbine up a lot without strain.

When I do wear head mounted NODs, I usually have 1xPVS-14 and one thermal up there ... either an ATN ODIN on the dual mount beside the 14 or a PAS-29/COTI clipped on to a single 14. These setups provide both NV and thermal together which allows for both navigation (with the 14) and critter detection/ID with the thermal. And both can be done hands free while moving, either on foot on driving on 4-wheeler.

As to seeing in the woods. My woods are thick and difficult to move in during the day, lots of fallen branches, sticker vines and sticker trees (Locust trees). But with moon and a 14 it is bright as day. With no moon, I can actually see better with the thermal in the woods than with the 14. Hence having both NV/Thermal provides safe navigation, whether driving or walking in most conditions and in conditions when just one would not work as well.

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A head mounted 14 is a good general purpose device. It can be used to navigate both driving and walking and can see through glass (thermal cannot) so can be used driving a vehicle with glass. The 14 can also be used in conjunction with a rifle mounted ir-laser to engage critters. A 14 can be mounted behind rifle scopes and spotting scopes to enable them to be used at night. There are even ways to mount 14 in front of scopes. A 14 is probably the most flexible NOD, but it is not designed to take recoil, so I only mount mine on a .22LR these days, in the rare cases when I mount to a weapon.

A new "class A" set up will probably cost around $5k. This includes a good bump helmet and good mounts and a decent ir-laser. A good PVS-14 can be had for around $3,000 with the mounts and helmet and ir-laser consuming about $2,000.

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ODIN, 17mm, 1x, 320(30) side by side with PVS-14 on head with TEO, Mk3, 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60) on carbine. This is approaching full kit for cool weather dusk to dawn hunt.
d0qhoskl.jpg

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I have both a bump and a ballistic. I got the ballistic a size too large. I can wear thick balaclava under it during cool half of the year ... lack of holes retains heat and also keeps out water. The bump is good in warmer half of the year .. holes make it cooler and it is a size smaller, so is tight without the thick balaclava. It can take a thin balaclava. I also have a Crye Precision night cap which is good for a single pvs-14 and nothing else. And I have a couple of skull crushers in the parts bin.
0qacxppl.jpg

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PAS-29/COTI on PVS-14 on bump helmet with ODIN thermal on .22lr ... a coop patrol setup.
H8x1f6ol.jpg

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Dual 14s on bump and a 3x magnifier slipped on one of the 14s. I use this primarily in conjunction with the LRF. Standing still, remove 3x from pouch and slipon 14, operate LRF with right hand, while flipping out the right hand 14. The left side 14 with the 3x can see the dot from the LRF, sometimes out as far as 800yds. The right eye reads the vis display.
gltqy0Zl.jpg

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From the ancient archives ... 14 with 3x magnifier screwed on and behind EOTECH. I don't do setups like this anymore, but they can be done. The 14 is very flexible.
epohR9fl.jpg

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PVS14
Non ballistic helmet but don't get one with an integrated shroud. Also make sure it has rails or the ability to add rails for lights. Only other real upgrade would be a better pad system.
Quality shroud
Quality arm (I actually have an extra Wilcox G11 ARMY mount I'd sell you if you wanted one)
550 cord to attach the PVS14 to your helmet so it doesn't hit the ground if it comes loose
PEQ15 on the rifle

Remember, you can use NV to walk around as it has depth perception; thermal, not so much.
 
I'm new into the NV game too and it isn't easy to find good info.

Whats a decent helmet mount that wont break the bank? Most I've seen are around $250 which seems like a lot. Are there some cheaper alternatives that provide a solid setup?

Also, will the mounts for a monocular also work for Goggles?
 
New to the forms, but have been looking through tubes a while.

Everything said here has been good advice. A single PVS-14 is the most versatile and cost effective option you can go with.
I do not recommend putting them on any rifle as the recoil will eventually give the intensifier tube little black blemish spots.

You can find PVS-14s for a decent price, even less if it has a blemish. Id rather have a great tube (Omni VI+) with a small blemish, than a poor resolution tube that is pristine. You will quickly look around and disregard the blem (unless its a big black spot in the middle).

A single tube will take more time to train with to feel comfortable. You will lose depth perception and in low vis nights you will feel off balance at times trudging through the woods. Keep with it, you'll quickly get better.

A laser aiming device is crucial. It can be hard trying to get that tube behind a NV compatible optic at times. Since a high quality tubes range for target ID is about 200M any quality class I laser will do the trick.. and save your $2000+ NOD from eventual death.

I cant stress enough spending the extra $100-200 on a GOOD bump helmet and counter weight. This will absolutely be a buy once cry once option. Your head can quickly become unbearable with the weight and hotspots if you dont get a good helmet with a quality suspension system that meshes well with your head. If money is an issue, look for a used one. TW and Opscore bump helmets can be found for around the $200 price point.

Also, there are options besides selling your PVS-14 in the future to upgrade to dual tubes. Look around (dont know if I can name manufacturers), there is a conversion service to make two PVS-14's into a BVND for around 2k.

Hope that helps!

last thing: train train train. You're only as good as your comfort level behind nods, regardless of the quality of the set up.
 
Feel free to pm me for my phone number. I can give you some advice on what to get and some different options. I can also steer you towards some very nice prices also.

Jay
 
update: thanks for all the help! i just went thru the whole process to figure out what to buy. i picked up a used pvs 14 with rhino/j-arm set up on a bump helmet. quickly realized it is pretty sucky overall. ZERO depth perception but better than nothing. got some up armor anvis goggles from I squared technologies (peter lesbos) and they are the best things around. thermal works great for spotting. anyway, i guess it is all about the mission. this is what worked for me.
 
Talk to Vic at TNVC, good guys there and he can square you away without giving you the hard sell. If there's a way to stretch your cash, I'm sure he'll be able to work it out. You want to start with the best 14 you can get IMO. A Crye soft cover, Wilcox plastic/alum shroud, dovetail j arm or block and a dovetail mount are the primary items IMO. A soft case too would be nice.

From there, lasers, mounts, etc.

NO Ebay NODs. No way you can trust anything like that. I'd buy a high end scope on Ebay used before I bought NODs new (and only because in general high end scopes have lifetime warranties).

My 14's are near perfect and if I were to sell them, I'd still tell you not to buy them. Buy new. Best 3rd gen L3 or ITT tubes you can afford; hand select is worth it.

If you need a Larue weapons mount and matching EoTech riser, both QD, let me know. Don't have the EoTech anymore, don't plan on using the mount with an MRO, so I'll let it go cheap. Almost never used. PM me if interested.