Carrying weapon> Duty to Inform...

fpgt72

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This was a very small department full of geriatrics and wildly obese middle aged guys.

There are steps you can take so you can stop this BS in its tracks. It has happened in some small agencies around here, again I would say generally the problem gets fixed. And I can assure you that yours is not the only time it has happened. Again I would say be cool, you never are going to win on the street.
 

fpgt72

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Do they blame Chevy, the farmer for buying the truck, Henry Ford for making personal vehicles affordable to most or the bitch that hit them? Maybe it was the County's fault for putting the road there?

More correctly:
If she hadn't have gotten stopped she would have been long past the point of the collision when the old farm truck happened to go into the intersection.
Or if the traffic stop had lasted a minute longer the old truck wouldn't have been there.
Or if the traffic stop had lasted a minute less, the old truck wouldn't have been there.

When you start playing with causality, things don't always be like you think.
A single second or a couple of them, more or less on the time progression, could mean the difference between living, dying, being injured or being completely oblivious & you have no clue about it all unless all the things happen to line up wrong and you are on the x when it all intersects.

In that case it would have been impossible for humans at the time to have calculated the outcome and as such it's not really worth playing with.

Then of course Automobile makers have a long history of not wanting to fix issues because death and injury claims are cheaper to fight / pay by a small margin than fixing things. So had the truck not been designed like crap, there may also have been only minor injuries.

Are you two aware of the expression any port in a storm. You guys are fishing, you know the real bottom line here you are just wanting to argue.

Until we get time travel we are stuck with enforcing some rules, rules that exist for some very good reasons.....like 35 on a country road, or 25 in a school zone.
 
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The D

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    Are you two aware of the expression any port in a storm. You guys are fishing, you know the real bottom line here you are just wanting to argue.

    Until we get time travel we are stuck with enforcing some rules, rules that exist for some very good reasons.....like 35 on a country road, or 25 in a school zone
    But setting the speed limit to an arbitrary number and then stopping this woman at one random point won’t stop anything. Her speeding ticket only padded the dept budget.

    The only way to truly get someone to be safe on the roads(just running with this example) is to make them pay for any damage they cause, not give them a little piece of paper with marks scribbled on it
     

    hafejd30

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    Everyone knows the faster you alert LE you’re carrying and show the proof the better off you’ll be,

    As the cop walks up to the window simply shout “I have a gun”. This way his bodycam can clearly pick up you being a noble citizen

    At that point you want to provide proof as quickly as possible. So after yelling “I have a gun” make an immediate and determined dive to the glove box or grab for your wallet to provide such proof
     

    W54/XM-388

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    Until we get time travel we are stuck with enforcing some rules, rules that exist for some very good reasons.....like 35 on a country road, or 25 in a school zone.

    There is a very good chance given another 10 years the vehicles themselves will take care of a lot of that depending on how much is pushed in government mandates.

    In Europe they are already working on a mandate to have vehicles note the speed signs and adjust their speed accordingly, some of the higher end systems also do that automatically based on the marking in the GPS maps as well as the signs.
    The car makers can easily be incentivized to add in red light and stop sign detection

    A lot of the latest generation cars make you have really try hard to have an accident as they look for accident conditions & try to stop, accelerate or swerve to avoid them, or really try their best to jar you into paying attention right now.

    While I don't think self driving is going to be a real actual thing anytime soon (like as in you can go to the bar get totally drunk, get in your car and legally tell it to just drive you home), the next generation of driver assistance systems may present the next leap in cutting down accidents.

    One of the ones I'm looking at now, will find a safe spot, pull itself off the road onto the shoulder, come to a stop and turn on the parking brake and the hazard lights if the driver becomes unresponsive, it also has forward and side scanning for intersection traffic and turning traffic.
     

    davsco

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    My one and only experience with giving the Trooper my DL with permit ended with her disarming me, writing me a ticket and then giving me my pistol with the mags and guns back separately, what a fool.
    wonder what this idiot does when bad guys lie and say they don't have a gun...
     
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    HeavyAssault

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    One thing that has been on my mind was the whole "giving info when not required". I get showing the CCW/CCP (whatever it is in your state) as to say "I'm not a felon." . Isn't there a fancy radio/computer system already in place do all that for the LEO?? So if there ever was a need to "prove" you are not a felon on the side the road....sure pull out the CCW permit/license.


    Let's not confuse my topic with being asked by a LEO if you have weapons in the vehicle. I'm pretty certain that's the time to be 100% truthful.
    If you are pulled over in a state that has a law that clearly says you DO NOT have to disclose, then why on earth would you give up your right to withhold any comments/small talk.

    I'm not going down any rabbit trails of "what if" scenarios....that's going to be a train wreck of a discussion.
     

    hollowoutadime

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    Good discussion. Duty to inform map is slightly out of date (Ohio), but worthwhile. The take-home is be polite and never give more information than required. Many cruisers have license plate readers networked to an app - so they know who owns it, who might be driving it, whether the owner has a CCW. CCW owners are the good guys, cleaner records than LEOs and non-CCW holders. I have seven vehicles titled to me, my kids drive 3 of them. While they have their own CCW's now, before they turned 21 they were informed how this could play out.

    I travel quite a bit and always make a note of the states I'm going to go through.. For example, Illinois, I'm fine carrying through the state as long as the loaded firearm stays inside the vehicle as I gas up. No visiting friends if I have my NFA weapons on-board (no detours).
     

    akmike47

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    Everyone knows the faster you alert LE you’re carrying and show the proof the better off you’ll be,

    As the cop walks up to the window simply shout “I have a gun”. This way his bodycam can clearly pick up you being a noble citizen

    At that point you want to provide proof as quickly as possible. So after yelling “I have a gun” make an immediate and determined dive to the glove box or grab for your wallet to provide such proof
    No you have to yell that and hold it out the window dummy.

    How else are you supposed to get complimented on your CCW of choice?
     
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    The D

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    No you have to yell that and hold it out the window dummy.

    How else are you supposed to get complimented on your CCW of choice?
    This is the safest way to do it.
    1668112311624.jpeg
     

    wade2big

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    In Texas 'protocol' is that you hand your DL and CHL to the cop if he wants to ID you. This is so that you don't get out there in public saying "I HAVE A GUN!" and causing a potential problem. Same thing with traffic stops.

    That said I don't think they can write you a ticket just for not giving over your CHL. That said if you get pulled over and the cop asked 'are there any weapons in the car' and you lie about it---you can get into trouble for lying to the cops. So in a way there is a duty to inform I guess.

    Also if you start being a dick about it the cop can easily turn that warning ticket into a real ticket in no time flat. I haven't been pulled over much, but generally speaking if you are straight forward and respectful they will be too. Unless you are doing something totally stupid (like driving 100mph weaving through traffic or anything where you put other's safety at risk) odds are they will have mercy on you for the most part.
    In TX you legally are required to display a DL when pulled over in a motor vehicle and if you have a LTC you are supposed to hand it over as well although there is no penalty for not doing so. You do not legally have to ID yourself to any police officer at any other time unless you are being arrested.

    A man’s best bet is to remain completely silent even during a traffic stop. Not a word. The men that are shaking you down for big government are not your friend and they aren’t neutral either. They work against your interest to the benefit of the state. They should feel your contempt. Chances are you are getting a ticket anyway if it’s a state thug. You may have a slightly better chance for a warning with a county or city thug although if they were covid authoritarians because their boss told them to be then all bets are off.
     

    akmike47

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    Speaking of getting pulled over....

    Remember when people used to flash their lights after they passed a patrol car to warn people? No one does that anymore really, one old fart out of 20 cars MIGHT wave or flash theirs back and slow down.

    Hell where I grew up you waved t every car you passed, you had no clue who most were but everyone waved. Obviously that’s not feasible everywhere, but even up there no one does it anymore and it’s still the boonies.
     

    EddieNFL

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    It's none of their business. Write the ticket for what you are stopped for and move along.

    Been stopped a dozen times over the past 30? years. Hand over DL and CCL. Yet to get a tix...even out of state. More often than not, the cop ask what I'm carrying.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    Papers!
    Yes masser, the king has granted me the privilege and I have the papers.
    Well, he shouldn't have! Now give me the papers so I can verify them
     
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    Oldloser

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    Us vs. them shit has to stop.

    I’ve trained with police officers and helped train them. I spend a couple of weekends a year still. I’ve yet to meet one that was not a stand up person.

    The job is hard and they get a lot of bs like this and they get a bad rep. Most if not all is sheer BS and not deserved. They pull a lot of bad people off the street and keep the rest ducking.

    I’ve been pulled over a few times, once doing 200 mph, told them I was armed, and just got gun talk and a warning.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    I have been stopped many times. They tell me why and ask to see DL, insurance and registration. That's what I give them. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Been stopped a dozen times over the past 30? years. Hand over DL and CCL. Yet to get a tix...even out of state. More often than not, the cop ask what I'm carrying.
    Do you have any weapons?
    All kinds. There's a jack handle, a lug wrench, some other assorted tools, a pen, a pencil, the wife has some hairspray and a lighter and I am driving a three thousand pound car.
     

    madppcs

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    I never say yes. For everyone here that carries concealed in a vehicle, cant you guys just place your weapon in a non concealed location? This way your not concealed and dont have to say shit? Not trying to sound like a smartass, im asking a legit question
     

    mewillis

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    Not if it’s in your pocket or on your hip?? What if they say step out and frisk you, now it’s go to jail time……
     

    jrhtx

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    In TX you legally are required to display a DL when pulled over in a motor vehicle and if you have a LTC you are supposed to hand it over as well although there is no penalty for not doing so. You do not legally have to ID yourself to any police officer at any other time unless you are being arrested.

    A man’s best bet is to remain completely silent even during a traffic stop. Not a word. The men that are shaking you down for big government are not your friend and they aren’t neutral either. They work against your interest to the benefit of the state. They should feel your contempt. Chances are you are getting a ticket anyway if it’s a state thug. You may have a slightly better chance for a warning with a county or city thug although if they were covid authoritarians because their boss told them to be then all bets are off.
    From US Lawshield
    Texas – You have an obligation, if you are carrying a weapon, to hand the officer your LTC along with your driver’s license. There is currently no penalty on the books for failing to give the officer your LTC in this situation, but it is still good practice to do so, particularly if you want to avoid a very annoyed police officer.

    In TX and I assume others when they run your plates they know before they walk up to the car you have a CHL.
     
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    Cjwise5

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    What the police don’t know, won’t hurt them. If they stopped you for speeding, they shouldn’t be doing anything except checking your id, registration, proof of insurance and either writing you a ticket or cutting you loose. You don’t have to answer any of their questions period, but especially the ones that have nothing to do with their probably cause for the stop.
    Here’s how this goes:
    cop - “sir the reason I stopped you tonight is for speeding. Please hand me your id, reg, and proof of ins.”
    you - “no problem sir”
    cop - “do you have any weapons in the car?”
    you - “sir you pulled me over for speeding correct?”

    You get the idea…
    Basically that officer has very little if any authority to know what you’re carrying inside your vehicle.
    BUT be careful with the attitude because if they decide to arrest you for interference of official acts or the speeding (yes they can) then they can do an inventory of your property after they arrest you.
    Either path is a gamble. On the one hand you could gamble that the officer is a decent person and won’t give you a hard time for carrying concealed. On the other hand, if you give the officer an attitude, they have legal means and tricky ways of getting the answers they want. Most of which will earn you a night in jail.

    I’m saying all this as an ex LEO. I’m just one dude and don’t have all the answers, but that’s my take on it.
     
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    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    In TN the castle doctrine extends to your vehicle. So on the majority of stops you don't get the questions.
    We have constitutional carry and the police can assume that everyone is armed. If they are scared they should get another job. Sanitation/garbage collection should be avoided though. Way more dangerous than police work.
     

    FWoo45

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    Sounds like I should move to Tennessee.

    ETA: Or Wyoming.
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

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    Just crack the window and repeat "I dont answer questions" until he goes away.
     

    Bundy

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    In Oklahoma, all they can do is ask if you have a gun in your vehicle, it’s a simple yes or no, and that’s all you need to say, they can not ask what it is, where it is, or for you to hand it to them.
     

    supercorndogs

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    I have been stopped many times. They tell me why and ask to see DL, insurance and registration. That's what I give them. Nothing more and nothing less.

    Do you have any weapons?
    All kinds. There's a jack handle, a lug wrench, some other assorted tools, a pen, a pencil, the wife has some hairspray and a lighter and I am driving a three thousand pound car.
     

    E. Bryant

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    The only way to truly get someone to be safe on the roads(just running with this example) is to make them pay for any damage they cause, not give them a little piece of paper with marks scribbled on it

    A huge problem with traffic safety is the lack of perceived (and actual) consequences for actions. You've got some middle-aged asshole in a 2022 Canyonaro SUV. Hitting anything shy of a bridge abutment at highway speeds is perceived as "safe", and in reality the likelihood of a fatality in a normal traffic accident is pretty low. So fuck you plebs in the 1995 minivan, fuck you idiots on the bikes and motorcycles, and especially fuck anyone with nerve to step foot on a crosswalk that impedes the progress of this Very Important Person.

    If that person does happen to kill someone, he might get a slap on the wrist as long as his BAC isn't over an arbitrary value, and his insurance company will mop up what remains of the mess.

    I'm not advocating that we make cars less safe, but when a subset of users are made to feel invincible, we destroy the mutual trust required to make our system work. The solution is real legal and financial consequences for injuring or killing someone due to negligence, and that has to be established even if you lack certain chemicals in your bloodstream at the time.
     
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    Near miss

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    Looking at it from another perspective, maybe it's better to say nothing if not required by law. I've had LEO's ask me to unload a firearm during a stop. That's a shitty situation. I'd rather not handle it.
    Did he ask nicely?
     
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    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    Last year an illegal crossed the center line and hit another car headon. He was well over the legal limit and killed a young man and his girlfriend. His punishment? Deported to Mexico after we, the taxpayers, paid his medical bills.
    Want to wager if he is still in Mexico or back in the USA?
    A huge problem with traffic safety is the lack of perceived (and actual) consequences for actions. You've got some middle-aged asshole in a 2022 Canyonaro SUV. Hitting anything shy of a bridge abutment at highway speeds is perceived as "safe", and in reality the likelihood of a fatality in a normal traffic accident is pretty low. So fuck you plebs in the 1995 minivan, fuck you idiots on the bikes and motorcycles, and especially fuck anyone with nerve to step foot on a crosswalk that impedes the progress of this Very Important Person.

    If that person does happen to kill someone, he might get a slap on the wrist as long as his BAC isn't over an arbitrary value, and his insurance company will mop up what remains of the mess.

    I'm not advocating that we make cars less safe, but when a subset of users are made to feel invincible, we destroy the mutual trust required to make our system work. The solution is real legal and financial consequences for injuring or killing someone due to negligence, and that has to be established even if you lack certain chemicals in your bloodstream at the time.
     

    W54/XM-388

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    A huge problem with traffic safety is the lack of perceived (and actual) consequences for actions. You've got some middle-aged asshole in a 2022 Canyonaro SUV. Hitting anything shy of a bridge abutment at highway speeds is perceived as "safe", and in reality the likelihood of a fatality in a normal traffic accident is pretty low. So fuck you plebs in the 1995 minivan, fuck you idiots on the bikes and motorcycles, and especially fuck anyone with nerve to step foot on a crosswalk that impedes the progress of this Very Important Person.

    Or maybe you teach stupid bicyclists that being assholes to people on the road and feeling smug because you are surrounded by your invincibility shield of virtue signalling doesn't actually protect you from reality when larger mass traveling faster hits smaller mass that decided to try to brake check bigger mass.
    Bicycles should not be on the same roads cars are, make them share the sidewalks with pedestrians and maybe then they'd understand how it feels to have to wait for smug assholes to plod along...

    You want to block a lane or two of the road in rush hour in your virtue signalling fake team spandex with all stupid logos over it, being a total asshole and snarling up traffic and making everybody wait on your ass, well you be you, but I'm not going to shed a tear if you accidentally learn that bigger mass don't stop when you decided to try to teach some truck a lesson by brake checking them.

    Same thing with pedestrians, perhaps teach them to pull out their earbuds, look up from their stupid phones, look both ways when crossing the road and only cross at official crossing stations or when it's clearly safe to do so. But no, I'm the virtuous Karen out for my walk and the whole world should look out for me. The world don't come to a stop just because you decide you'd like to mozy across the road right that moment.

    HGVs, cars, busses, trucks and SUVs are what are the backbone of keeping the economy and society moving and working. I get a bit fed up with all these virtue signalling wankers demanding the government oppress those who actually are trying to get to work and back or do actual business just so the folks out enjoying their virtue signalling can feel so superior.

    Also chances are the supposed "asshole" in the 2022 high dollar SUV probably has a lot less chance of causing an accident that results in serious or fatal injury than your virtuous "pleb" in their 1995 minivan, because most of them have quite a bit of accident avoidance and secondary accident mitigation technology built in.

    Maybe if the folks in the 1995 minivan actually had you know a licence, and insurance and actually knew how to drive and didn't try swerving around and cutting folks off and taking the right hand exit from the left lane on a 5 lane highway, or coming to a near complete stop in the middle of the road as they try to decide where they want to go, or you know stop in the middle of the road, get out and look at a sign, or suddenly decide when they are driving through an intersection they would like to slam on the brakes and think about maybe they actually wanted to turn etc. there wouldn't be a problem.

    You know how many of those stupid "virtuous plebs" in their old POS vans that should be taken off the road I see almost everyday almost causing catastrophic accidents with the stupid insane driving stunts they pull? The reason they often get home alive is because the expensive modern vehicle behind them actually had expensive new tyres, good brakes, automatic pre-braking technology and proper suspension.

    I'm going to drive the safest thing I possibly can that will protect me the best it can. It's also not in my own best interest to get into an accident with anything human or animal. But accidents happen and they are complex things. So no if there is an accident, it's part and parcel of folks being on the roads and the courts can already determine if there was gross negligence or any other such issues or not.
     
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    mewillis

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    How is it jail time?

    I find this statement hard to believe. Please tell me your exaggerating
    Whats hard to believe about it?? You (madppcs" quoted "you never say yes" so then you lie if asked which is illegal in most states, and exageration? perhaps you didn't read my experience, had I lied when asked I'm confident there would have been an arrest because she was on a power trip. There are lots of silly responses in this thread so take it for what it is and you do you, I prefer to not poke the hornets nest ie; cops on power trips.
     
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    mosin46

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    couldn't agree more about the asshole "planet loving" bicycle riding signaling their green virtue. their special and expensive bike paths ,which they rarely use,are all over and always done instead of widening crowded roads.
     

    acpchuck

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    About 15 years ago got stopped in Kemmerer WY for being 5 mph over the limit. Saw the deputy on the side of the road when I came around the corner, knew I was going too fast and when he pulled out, I pulled over. Had my 3 sons and a nephew with me. He asked where we were going. Told him to Medicine Bow for our annual Rodent Eradication Program (P-Dog shoot). He said that sounds like fun. In the back of the suburban he could see gun cases and ammo boxes. His comment was looks like you are well prepared. Told him I think we could outfit a small army. Had a dozen guns and probably 4,000 rounds of ammo.

    Told me to watch my speed and to have a good time with the shooting.
     

    TexPatriot

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    Never volunteer info to cops. They are not your friends
    Last time I got pulled over was five years ago for failing to change lanes when I came over a hill and there was a DPS Trooper that had someone pulled over on the shoulder. There was another vehicle travelling next to me on the inside lane and I couldn't change lanes.

    Anyway, he caught up with me and pulled me over; some sawed off ginger maybe 5-6" with his orthopedic lifts on his boots. I proceeded to inform him I had a pistol in the console and he quickly asked "Is it loaded?" I told him yes and he then informed me the gun and ammunition needed to be kept separate when in a vehicle. I thought "Aaw fuck, this was a mistake to volunteer telling him anything. Never again."

    Just then another DPS unit rolled up behind his car and an older Trooper stepped out. I told the choad at my window to go ask about the law about carrying a gun in a vehicle in Texas. He said, hang tight, he'd be right back. He went and talked to the older Trooper, ran my DL, came back and said have a nice day.
     
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    Vodoun daVinci

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    [sarc] I'm pretty certain now that if asked *anything* by the Police my best course of action is to lie, tell them I don't talk to Police, tell him it's none of his business if I'm armed or have a gun in the car and, in general, be as obtuse, evasive, and curt as possible.

    That's the best Way to handle cops. I read it on SH in The 'Pit..... :ROFLMAO: 🖕 [/sarc]

    VooDoo
     
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    TexPatriot

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    [sarc] I'm pretty certain now that if asked *anything* by the Police my best course of action is to lie, tell them I don't talk to Police, tell him it's none of his business if I'm armed or have a gun in the car and, in general, be as obtuse, evasive, and curt as possible.

    That's the best Way to handle cops. I read it on SH in The 'Pit..... :ROFLMAO: 🖕 [/sarc]

    VooDoo
    At least tell them about the buttplug you have concealed in your ass.
     

    TexPatriot

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    Here's a website with an interactive national map to see where your state sits.
    My apology if this is a duplicate post, I didn't read them all.

    National map....kind of....
    Here's where the law gets hazy, at least in Texas. If you're a CHL owner you inform you have a gun and usually hand them your CHL license with you DL, although it shows up anyway on his/her screen regardless.

    If you're not a CHL owner, I'm not sure you have to say anything as you may just be transporting your gun like to a range, gun shop, hunting or it's just your truck gun.

    If you're travelling through counties, over county lines, you can carry in your vehicle. In Texas, your vehicle is considered part of your home or domicile and therefore you can carry a gun in your vehicle. Again, not sure if you need to inform. It's nobody's business if I have guns in my house, even though doctors will ask.
     
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    M4orturnate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 27, 2021
    513
    680
    Cleveland Ohio
    I drive lile a fucking asshole(former bmw owner) and get pulled over regularly. Ive yet to get a ticket since ive had my ccw. Theres even been a few times the cops pulled out on me read my plate and backed off. Im also not a dick to them. It never helps the situation.
     

    Jgunner

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  • Jul 29, 2019
    2,495
    2,534
    Arizona
    The problem is when an officer thi ks that they are are in the right about disarming you and they try to escalate it. Its happened twice, recently. You can be right or you can let them disarm you.

    Being right will lead to.mtiple units called in and guns in your face and likely being loaded in a patrol car before they sort it all out. If ya have some time to kill, it's one way to spend the evening.