Looking for any experience of a Chad tuner brake vs a Botnia Maxi. We are in the process of building a PRS rifle for Tactical class in 308 win for my son, so wanting to get the absolute most effective muzzle brake that we can find. The choice seems to be between the Chad and the Botnia, but I cant find much that compares the two. I watched the X-Ring Youtube video, and his conclusion was that they were very similar, but I would be interested to hear the experience of anyone else that has been able to compare the two.
Precision Rifle Gear Chad vs Botnia
- Thread starter Rifletuner
- Start date
I haven't shot them side by side, but I've shot both and I agree with XRing. Very similar.
I love to buy dumb shit but $600 for a brake is wild to me.
Haven't tried the Botnia, but the concussion from the Chad was pretty terrible in my opinion. Extremely effective recoil reduction, but it didn't matter because the time spent recovering from the flashbang that just went off 3 feet from my face was about as much time as I'd spend requiring the target with a suppressor. I found the DN5 to be a pretty good middle ground between recoil reduction and concussion at the shooter. Side benefit, it's not $600 for a brake.
The Chad is more pleasant to the shooter so that's the direction I would lean. I know guys who have both and can't really tell too much of a difference.
If your son is not a grown ass man, .308 is a very poor choice. It's going to beat the shit out of him and hinder development. Usually guys shoot tactical who are either in the military or get their skills/fundamentals down in open then go shoot tactical. It's a rough learning curve, even more so with heavy recoil.
If your son is not a grown ass man, .308 is a very poor choice. It's going to beat the shit out of him and hinder development. Usually guys shoot tactical who are either in the military or get their skills/fundamentals down in open then go shoot tactical. It's a rough learning curve, even more so with heavy recoil.
Everyone ( including me) said the same thing till you shoot one. Then they are asking where to buy one. It's one of the few areas you can actually buy some points.
I've put quite a few rounds through both. Setting being on PRS open rigs in 6.5 Creed & 6 Dasher, and NRL Hunter Open Heavy rifle in 6.5 Creed. They're very good, but a but different. That said, in my use cases I don't think you'd be able to really tell in a 6mm. 6.5 is where I was able to notice differences. See below...
Chad: Keeps rifle flatter. Blast isn't bad on the shooter. If you shoot under cover (roof), then it feels a bit louder than I'd like. Nice that I can use 5/8 and 3/4 muzzle threads. Blast isn't a loud ringing, but more of a wave of air the washes over you.
Maxi: Less recoil and feels softer, but little more muzzle rise. Nicer when shooting under a roof. Nicer/easier way to set timing on the barrel. Blast isn't bad on the shooter. I "see" the blast more in my peripherals.
Chad: Keeps rifle flatter. Blast isn't bad on the shooter. If you shoot under cover (roof), then it feels a bit louder than I'd like. Nice that I can use 5/8 and 3/4 muzzle threads. Blast isn't a loud ringing, but more of a wave of air the washes over you.
Maxi: Less recoil and feels softer, but little more muzzle rise. Nicer when shooting under a roof. Nicer/easier way to set timing on the barrel. Blast isn't bad on the shooter. I "see" the blast more in my peripherals.
I’ve shot both and IMO the Botnia is better as far as recoil reduction and kinder to the shooter as far as blast/concussion as compared to the Chad.
(That said, I care about my hearing and driving home without a headache more than recoil reduction, so I run an ACE with their cone of shame.)
(That said, I care about my hearing and driving home without a headache more than recoil reduction, so I run an ACE with their cone of shame.)
I swear that pricing makes my head call up the O'Jays... "For the Love of Money".
I really like shooting the Chad, that said I have pretty much switched to shooting Suppressed. It is just so much more enjoyable!
I have both. I didn’t really feel a noticeable difference in 6mm. 6.5cm the Botnia feels a little flatter. 7mm definitely the Botnia is flatter.
Only have shot the Chad, was at JTAC class and shot my gun off the barricade with my Ace break with my 6GT. Then shot my buddies gun which is almost identical to my setup other than he has the Chad. We were learning their free recoil and with my Ace I was getting 2-2.5 mils jump. When I shot his with the Chad it was actually -.5 mils. To me the blast was no different than my Ace.
I have both. Botnia and Chad. With 1000+ rounds on each in matches. They are equally flat on muzzle rise and recoil but the botnia has less blast and vibration in the rifle system. The muzzle blast is violent and the vibration can be felt through the whole rifle with the chad. The vibration impulse is extremely fast so it has little effect on your ability to see what’s going on downrange but the botnia has the edge in performance because it’s so much less violent. My opinion.
Not physically possible. More performance equals more blast. So what is it? Does it have more performance and more blast or less blast and less performance?
Only semi true. Quantity of air moved does equal performance, but air “Blast” can move in multiple directions to achieve the same result.
Performance equals how much gas deflection a brakes has and how efficient the brake is. Gas deflection means more gas being moved through the brakes geometry instead of it escaping down the bore and out the front and efficiency means how effective the brake is at converting that redirected gas then to recoil reducing energy via jet effect and gas pushing the brake forward.
Can you say definitively it's not physically possible? Fluids are weird and sometimes exhibit unintuitive behaviors (at least in my experience). Also how do you quantify blast? Aero/fluids engineering is not my field of study or expertise so genuinely asking.
You just don’t get it, go read your fluids book again! They are pushing the gas out at deflection angles that result in the sane net pressure but with less pressure directed at the shooter/observer. The felt pressure wave from the Chad is very similar to that of an ATS or ACE brake but with better muzzle control. It is just a basic Engineering fluids problem.
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All good, ask away anytime.
The more gas you redirect, the higher the intensity of the blast (because the pressure will be higher), and because the volume of gas that’s being redirected is larger, the longer you’ll feel it for. The higher the efficiency of the brake and the faster the exhausting gasses, again the more you’ll feel the gas as they will carry that intensity further.
All gas you redirect is felt by the shooter and the more aggressively you direct it rearward, which increases performance the greater the angle, the higher the affect of the blast because it’s directed closer to the shooter.
So no matter which way you look at it, more performance equals more blast coming out of the brake.
Now the only way to reduce how much of that blast the shooter feels with a high performing brake is to use angles to direct the blast in a direction, that compromises and hurts performance the least amount, while creating as much distance between the blast and the shooter as possible.
The chad directs the entire blast upwards at an angle of 15 degrees (our patent pending redirected blast tech) and rearward at an angle of 47.5 degrees. It’s a compromise that doesn’t hurt performance much while creating a lot of distance between the blast and the shooter vs the original tmb. If I tried to add more performance to the chad tomorrow, every percent of performance I added to it, would increase blast to the shooter. There’s simply no way around it.
So it’s not really possible to make a brake that noticeably out performs the chad in recoil and blast at the same time while being of a reasonable size. You might find a blend of angles that combined with really high efficiency internal geometry, technically has a few percent better performance with only one extra percent in blast but it’s not going to be a game changing difference.
The more important factor to focus on differentiate the two would be the personality of the brakes. They do similar things but are very different in design and thus have very different recoil impulses.
Botnia does not.
Tuners are a gimmick, especially on big truck axle barrels like most guys run. If they did what people claimed, EVERYONE would run them. If you look at the bulk of the highest ranked shooters, they don't. Guys will do almost anything if they thought it gave them a competitive edge or advantage.
I would bet BJ is selling way more non tuner versions than tuner versions of the CHAD.
Tuners are a gimmick, especially on big truck axle barrels like most guys run. If they did what people claimed, EVERYONE would run them. If you look at the bulk of the highest ranked shooters, they don't. Guys will do almost anything if they thought it gave them a competitive edge or advantage.
I would bet BJ is selling way more non tuner versions than tuner versions of the CHAD.
Very interesting! I see guys swear by them. Reputable f class shooters, ec tuner for example. Too bad I was curious to try and see. Got a good deal on a used Chad thinking it was a little cheat code lol. Oh well. Live and learn!
Shooting the botnia i will say coming from the DN5 that I expected I would experience less concussion but its actually quite loud. It also tames a creedmoor incredibly well. Only complaint is I paid and waited for it to be coated black and the finish is tragicly bad. Just stick with stainless and have it coated yourself if you want it black.
Tuner chads are always the first to sell out and make up 65-70% of sales.
I listened to the Morgun King podcast today while mowing the lawn (he's back after a long hiatus). It was an interesting listen.
According to him, the new Preece Stinger is the best brake out there, with less concussion/blast than a CHAD, and for half of what a Botnia costs... IDK?
Also, in the classiest way possible, he tried to explain his side of what went down with the debacle that was his signature brake never actually having come out and guys not getting the product they paid for, resulting in him getting bombarded with much hate and static that was not of his making, enough so that he decided to go dark on most social media for a while (and sounds like to me, may have contributed to his burnout and him stepping away from the sport for a bit).
According to him, the new Preece Stinger is the best brake out there, with less concussion/blast than a CHAD, and for half of what a Botnia costs... IDK?
Also, in the classiest way possible, he tried to explain his side of what went down with the debacle that was his signature brake never actually having come out and guys not getting the product they paid for, resulting in him getting bombarded with much hate and static that was not of his making, enough so that he decided to go dark on most social media for a while (and sounds like to me, may have contributed to his burnout and him stepping away from the sport for a bit).
What’s funny is I think the war is over. Serious competition shooters who still shoot brakes have picked up a chad or Boris, the rest all have moved to suppressors. Yes I know states have banned them (Maybe even my own soon, but me and my kids will still have enough for a while
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He's sponserd by Preece and has been for years no shit that's what he's going to say. And it's not half the price. The Chad is a more effective brake than the stinger but it's close. I dont notice the conclusion difference but others claim to.
The stinger is a very good brake in itself. I know a bunch of very good shooters running them.
We should all be happy brake tech and suppressor tech is advancing pretty fast. It's a good time to be a consumer.
I ran Corson's 5 port version @ Impact Foundation shooting 153 Hybrids out of a 22 lb rifle & never had trouble tracking what was going on downrange during recoil. Definitely has less down force than a DN5.
Very effective brake with significantly less concussion to the shooter & bystanders.
Very effective brake with significantly less concussion to the shooter & bystanders.
Well. I think we could wind up with 10+ different designs based on exactly what a customer wants.
Currently my plan is a common "threaded section", after which there could be complete design freedom.
After hearing that pod... only a douchbag would run a CHAD (even if it was the best brake ever made).
There are two sides to every story. The Mormon brigade has their own set of issues.
When I run a brake it is a CHAD, and I am life long LDS. Morgan King can kiss my A**!
Yep, I don’t know both sides and both versions of the story… and don’t really care to. Because what I do know is, the guy who basically put a certain company on the map and got them rolling, now wont even say their name… and to me, that says a lot. YMMV.
Guys are free to listen to the podcast and decide what they think for themselves…
Guys are free to listen to the podcast and decide what they think for themselves…
You do realize most guys here know both asides of the story right???
I’ve shot one round through a Stringer and will say it was enough concussion for me not to try another round.
However, nowadays I recommend none of them. Not the DN5, CHAD, Stringer, Botnia and so on. If you have to use a brake, use the straighter ported ACE or Hawkins Updraft. I used the CHAD and was apart of the original preorder debacle and used it quite a bit. After 2 matches this year I felt like I had a concussion after 2 days of shooting and decided to move away from it.
For the health of the shooters and longevity of the sport I believe suppressors will start to dominate with brakes soon becoming a minority. Only one year of the PRS incentivizing suppressor use the number of suppressors have gone way up and companies like RecoilX make it even more enticing.
There’s nothing about constant concussion to a shooter that can be healthy for you.
However, nowadays I recommend none of them. Not the DN5, CHAD, Stringer, Botnia and so on. If you have to use a brake, use the straighter ported ACE or Hawkins Updraft. I used the CHAD and was apart of the original preorder debacle and used it quite a bit. After 2 matches this year I felt like I had a concussion after 2 days of shooting and decided to move away from it.
For the health of the shooters and longevity of the sport I believe suppressors will start to dominate with brakes soon becoming a minority. Only one year of the PRS incentivizing suppressor use the number of suppressors have gone way up and companies like RecoilX make it even more enticing.
There’s nothing about constant concussion to a shooter that can be healthy for you.
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