I guess it doesn't work going outside chain of command and going open conversation regarding the status of your large strategic asset.
- Thread starter pmclaine
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He deserved to be relieved. The sailors were NOT going to DIE from COVID19. (Unless they are age 60 + with cardiovascular diseases and other underlying medical issue..
This Captain created undo panic.
This Captain created undo panic.
Guy came across as a whiny bitch.
Guessing he was an Obama promotion.
Can't blame Obama for where he is now though.
Trump has to prevent the Deep State from placing people or listening to their advice.
Guessing he was an Obama promotion.
Can't blame Obama for where he is now though.
Trump has to prevent the Deep State from placing people or listening to their advice.
Well, he will be the most senior steward in the galley now...
He should have kept his pie hole shut!
Sirhr
He should have kept his pie hole shut!
Sirhr
Don't understand why a guy takes an innocuous picture of his work space and gets jail while the captain of a nuclear weapon comments on its readiness publicly and will likely be hailed a hero.
@308pirate any comment?
Relieved? At the very least. When I first heard about his "letter" I held my tongue because it appeared the contents were released by "DOD" sources. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt...I assumed he sent a classified message and it was leaked. Tonight I saw the Secretary of the Navy say the first he heard about this was a letter he sent to his hometown newspaper. Ths guy should face UCMJ punishment on a number of charges. He released classified information regarding the combat readiness of a strategic nuclear asset.
^^^ This.
I believe that "Hanging from the Yardarm" was part of "Rocks and Shoals."
Wasn't that the standard for about 5 generations?
Sirhr
There’s a lot of unknown to both sides of the stories each side will tell. I can tell you living on multiple carriers that it would spread like wild fire. For anyone that’s served on a vessel, how fast does the double dragon spread? All it takes is for a few Sailors to grab the handle on a hatch or use the same serving spoon in the galley and it starts making its rounds. Once that happens what happens to your watchbill, your maintenance windows etc? It can snowball quickly. Do you all think the ship would have gotten the help it needed as quickly if the CO did not do what he did? Should he of kept quite and how much spreading is tolerated, soon the entire ship is infected, combat systems, air department, navigation, officers, and god forbid the almighty engineers. How well will they maintain the watch then? It’s easy to sit in the comfortable confines of your own home with no one infected around you and make a call that you won’t be judged on than it is with 5-6k Sailors stuck in a small vessel. He was damned either action he took. Imagine if even 1 Sailor died and the media found out how it would be spun.
It's a nuke carrier.
Im just a dumb grunt and I know with a strategic weapon of that nature you wouldn't even think of commenting on its readiness other than to say "We are 100%. Give us the word and we go tommorow"
And if the word was you go tommorow guess what?
He loads some more sail shrouds and he fires up the reactor.
I understand the reason the Spanish Flu is called the "Spanish Flu" is because as it decimated the militaries of the WWI combatants they refused for OpSec reasons to report about it.
Spain being neutral had headlines like "Hola, Our People are Dropping like Flies!"
Therefore instead of being the Kansas Flu it became the Spanish Flu.
Disclaimer - the preceding was a PBS fact so it's probably just American hating lies funded by your tax takings.
How many commenting on this thread have spent time in berthing aboard a Naval Vessel?
How many have used the head on a ship?
Taken a shower on a Navy ship?
Stood in line in a narrow passageway waiting for chow, or a chance to hit the ships store, or the laundry.
This is a nice, roomy berthing, the ships I was on were far more cramped.
How many have used the head on a ship?
Taken a shower on a Navy ship?
Stood in line in a narrow passageway waiting for chow, or a chance to hit the ships store, or the laundry.
This is a nice, roomy berthing, the ships I was on were far more cramped.
Thats why you have to become an Officer so you don't have to bunk in Steerage.
What's that got to do with releasing/airing laundry in the news?
There's proper channels and everyone from private on up knows that.
That POS should be reduced to O-1 and bounced with no benefits, No retirement, NADA. He should be a lesson on what not to do.
There's proper channels and everyone from private on up knows that.
That POS should be reduced to O-1 and bounced with no benefits, No retirement, NADA. He should be a lesson on what not to do.
I think many here get it.
A ship is a petri dish of shit.
A guy farts in the bow you smell it in the stern, there is no social distancing.
Do you think though that it is the place of the ships commander, especially in light of the shit we have going on with china to start bitching publicly about your ships readiness.
Get to Guam go up the chain, if you are not getting satisfaction - resign - and when you are asked by the media why you resigned you can say you felt the needs of your men were not being met.
No instead of putting your braid on the line you have to go to the media like a bitch.
I thought the whole lesson of Vietnam was if you dont like the orders you resign with your honor intact.
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I never spent time on the ship but I was in the military and I understand the chain of command and that little whiny ass bitch should be sitting in the brig at Pearl Harbor until the separation papers could be completed of course then as we all know he’ll be on the talk show circuit with CNN and MSNBC, They will label him a whistleblower
I spent a lot of time on a ship and they weren't nothing like that
Our bunk room had water flowing on the floor
The head and shower room was full of water and piss.
You're probably to young to had ever rode on an LST
This reminds me of Rivera giving out the airborne unit location on live TV during Iraqi
It’s a very difficult decision to be made. I have no doubt he sat up and thought long and hard about it. He’s not a dumb man and I’m sure he knew full well what would happen before he hit the send button.
It’s a hard one because you could argue both sides of his actions. Given the operational status of his ship, not in any war theater, not flying missions, just open water sailing. If his actions save one life then he did right in my book given his current situation. The above mentioned of it spreading is a real concern to his crew, medical onboard does not have the capability nor resources to handle it in the manner it needs before it gets out of control. Say he does nothing and his ship is crippled operating no where near 100% in the Pacific or skirting around the South China Sea or pulling into a shipping lane (Fitzgerald/McCain). There’s so many facets to play into this and as a Chief it makes my head spin as to what the right answer is. It comes down to the old saying, “do your Sailors or does the mission come first?” The fact is this is something that has never been experienced before, that ship is not in a combat role at that time, there will be many lessons learned from each side on this study.
It’s a hard one because you could argue both sides of his actions. Given the operational status of his ship, not in any war theater, not flying missions, just open water sailing. If his actions save one life then he did right in my book given his current situation. The above mentioned of it spreading is a real concern to his crew, medical onboard does not have the capability nor resources to handle it in the manner it needs before it gets out of control. Say he does nothing and his ship is crippled operating no where near 100% in the Pacific or skirting around the South China Sea or pulling into a shipping lane (Fitzgerald/McCain). There’s so many facets to play into this and as a Chief it makes my head spin as to what the right answer is. It comes down to the old saying, “do your Sailors or does the mission come first?” The fact is this is something that has never been experienced before, that ship is not in a combat role at that time, there will be many lessons learned from each side on this study.
Actually, I did 24 years and retired 12 years ago. I've been underway on a carrier, TAD, I've been underway on an LA class sub but my sea duty was on MCM's. 220 feet of wood with a fiberglass sheathing. Max speed of 14 knots.
As far the other comments, yes he went outside the chain of command.
Yes, it is wrong.
But, having lived and breathed Navy Blue and Gold, I can tell you he likely felt he had no choice.
Some CO's put the safety and welfare of their troops at the very top.
Where does the saftey of the nation or world fall into place in your world?
How many people do you support at ANY given minute?
There's a lot of people crawling around in the bushes and what happens when the phone isn't answered?
Fuck that shitbird they need to run him up the mast
Good points but he could of done it secretly through the chain of command, they way it was done the world sees the Military down and out when he must maintain a strong presence or the illusion of it.
If you look what the government has done to our Military Service Members over the years its shocking. Once you sign up you basically give your rights over to the government. How many times have they used Service Members for health experiments throughout the years. I'm of the mindset they should be treated much better then they are, I don't want to sacrifice any of them. I would bomb the enemy back into the stone age then send the troops in to count the bones.
Just a question, not a conspiracy
What if CV19 were a bio attack by China or another nation against us? Would you want this guy opening his mouth about its effect on our Carrier?
Can you say with certainty the above is impossible?
What if CV19 were a bio attack by China or another nation against us? Would you want this guy opening his mouth about its effect on our Carrier?
Can you say with certainty the above is impossible?
He was not looking out for his troops. He put every Sailor, Airman, Soldier, and Citizen in harms way with his reckless comments revealing the mission readiness of a Carrier Battle Group.
Of course China would do that and how prefect is it that it didn't look like an attack just a pandemic to destroy the American economy to remove Trump. Once they started it all they had to do was lock it down to stop the spread in their country which they bolted people in their homes. Infected people were removed and burned, they have over a billion people so you can lose hundreds of thousands without batting a eye. The signaling from Democratic Congress to wait out Trump so China could continue business as usual.
This is true, and I hope he did as it should be utilized that way. I am just hearing different things about who he actually sent the letter to and who actually “leaked” it to the media. There’s a lot of misconception that the former CO himself leaked the letter to the SF media, during the press release even the acting SECNAV admits he is unaware of who leaked the letter.
If thats the case they should be able to find the leaker and Davey Jones their ass.
Was this Captain also the commander who approved the liberty call in Vietnam in March? This is where the sailors contacted the Corona Virus.
If he was the commander who approved the liberty call.... seems he is the one responsible for the spreading virus
If he was the commander who approved the liberty call.... seems he is the one responsible for the spreading virus
He simply doesn't understand the chain of command. It's burned into your brain every day of military service in my experience.
Unfortunately Vietnam COVID19 testing isn’t very reliable even now they only claim 250 some confirmed cases since 31Dec2019. shocking I’m sure. They pulled in on 4Mar2020 and I haven’t done any digging but I’m sure the world wide exposure amount and it’s geographical location should have def thrown some red flags at the time, and the approval list to pull into a country has A LOT of signed names for approval lol
So I followed the links all the way to the SF Chronicle which evidently first published the letter and has a copy of it on its website.
I have a few questions.
Who here knows exactly how the letter got to the paper?
Who has evidence that CAPT Crozier didn't send his memo up the chain?
I read the msg all the way through and could not find to whom it was addressed. Only that it was on command letterhead and signed by CAPT Crozier.
The SF Chronicle article of March 31st actually quoted senior Navy officers and officials as agreeing with CAPT Crozier, and I quote
I'm not surprised that Acting SECNAV didn't hear of the letter until Tuesday. If the memo was sent late last week or over the weekend, the chain of command would take a day or two to get it to DC if someone thought it warranted so.
So far I'm having a hard time understanding why he was fired and why so many of you have a hard on for the guy. Especially if you haven't served at sea.
The world wonders.......
I have a few questions.
Who here knows exactly how the letter got to the paper?
Who has evidence that CAPT Crozier didn't send his memo up the chain?
I read the msg all the way through and could not find to whom it was addressed. Only that it was on command letterhead and signed by CAPT Crozier.
The SF Chronicle article of March 31st actually quoted senior Navy officers and officials as agreeing with CAPT Crozier, and I quote
I'm not surprised that Acting SECNAV didn't hear of the letter until Tuesday. If the memo was sent late last week or over the weekend, the chain of command would take a day or two to get it to DC if someone thought it warranted so.
So far I'm having a hard time understanding why he was fired and why so many of you have a hard on for the guy. Especially if you haven't served at sea.
The world wonders.......
I was Air Force for 28 years. Many years in the cockpit.
I recall when flying into non NATO countries we were briefed by the Embassy DAT on the local conditions. I would assume the Navy has much higher visibility level when a Nuke Carrier makes port visit. Something don't seem quite right with this story. IMO there's a hidden agenda by someone(s)
Agreed, but until I retire I’ll keep my conspiracies to myself, but when i do retire; I’ll crack a cold one and let em fly.
I read tonight that the "letter/memo" was addressed to 30 email addresses. Many outside the Navy chain of command.
snipped from Stars and Stripes ...... "But because Crozier emailed the letter to as many as 30 people, including some outside of his chain of command, he did not protect the information detailed inside or make certain it was not leaked. "
Doesn't matter who leaked it at this point, because the skipper is still accountable for the actions of his crew, especially when it deals with a personal letter to his commanders. If it wasn't him, then whoever did compromise national security by illegally sending it to the SF Chronicle should fall upon their own sword if they have an iota of honor.
And I have two years being shuttled around the world on a big gray bus, but it doesn't take a genius to know you don't go public about taking a carrier out of play in the western Pacific and not expect repercussions.
The guy will be Schumer's pick for the military officer to procure all the ventilators by COB Friday.
And I have two years being shuttled around the world on a big gray bus, but it doesn't take a genius to know you don't go public about taking a carrier out of play in the western Pacific and not expect repercussions.
The guy will be Schumer's pick for the military officer to procure all the ventilators by COB Friday.
Captain of USS Roosevelt relieved of command after letter about coronavirus outbreak was leaked
The captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt was relieved of command two days after his letter that warned sailors could die from the coronavirus outbreak aboard the aircraft carrier was leaked to the media.
Lots of additional info in that article.
Does DoN and DoD have secure/encrypted e-mail? I assume so.
If this thing was emailed as an attachment, it sure as hell better had been sent through secure means.
OK @Redmanss thanks for the link
I'm ready to keel haul this fuck from one end of the fleet to the other. Has this peckerhead ever heard of OPSEC?
If this thing was emailed as an attachment, it sure as hell better had been sent through secure means.
OK @Redmanss thanks for the link
I'm ready to keel haul this fuck from one end of the fleet to the other. Has this peckerhead ever heard of OPSEC?
Exactly, shit like requesting to take a strategic asset like a full blown aircraft carrier out of play while forward deployed is TS level information.
And it's called JWICS, yes, they do have encrypted email.
Captain of USS Roosevelt relieved of command after letter about coronavirus outbreak was leaked
The captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt was relieved of command two days after his letter that warned sailors could die from the coronavirus outbreak aboard the aircraft carrier was leaked to the media.
I'm old Navy brah, before all that newfangled shit existed.......LOL
My memory is getting spotty these days after retiring in 2013. I remember JWICS, Nipr, Sipr, etc.. and some program on a laptop that required me to call Fort Bragg to reset my password
He retired too, I now call him to reset the password on my company laptop. He says hi... and some program on a laptop that required me to call Fort Bragg to reset my password
Speaking of old and new....
When I was in the Air Ops Center in Ramstein during Operation Odyssey Dawn in spring of 2011l, the ATO (air tasking order) was still transmitted to the Navy using the old TBMCS (Theater Battle Management Core Systems). The ATO was built on an updated Windows based system but then fed back into the old TBMCS so the Navy and Marines could printout the battle plan..lol
He retired too, I now call him to reset the password on my company laptop. He says hi.
before Odyssey Dawn when the 617th AOC was quiet during the night shift, I would set up mirc chat rooms monitoring various Preds/Reapers with alarms set for 9 lines. Seeing the "CAP" callsign, I would then go to the video feed list to connect into the eye in the sky. Most memorable was watching 2 guys planting roadside IED attempt to run from an inbound Hellfire. It must have been quiet outside for them to hear the Hellfire as about 1 second before impact, they jumped up and tried to run.
sorry for the thread creep...
Doesn’t matter. He’s in the military. There are protocols (ie Request Mast) and a Chain of Command for a reason. The military is not a Democracy. It’s a dictatorship, it has to be.
Priority #1 : Mission Accomplishment
Priority #2 : Troop Welfare
That’s the order. He got it twisted.
Keep your mouth shut and your business in house.
The military is no place for the media, The View or the “Mothers of America”
Dude deserves what he got and more....
Priority #1 : Mission Accomplishment
Priority #2 : Troop Welfare
That’s the order. He got it twisted.
Keep your mouth shut and your business in house.
The military is no place for the media, The View or the “Mothers of America”
Dude deserves what he got and more....
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The democrats are already out writing letters and complaining on Twitter. My memory is a little fuzzy, can someone remind me how Congress responded when GEN Ham and RDML Gaouette were relieved of command for trying to provide assistance to our boys in Benghazi? Because I don't remember them saying a god damn thing.
Oh God..........
Captain was wrong to go spiling his guts outside of the chain of command, but unless crew was let of the ship , people would die that is 100% guaranteed.
In best case scenario when whole ship gets infected 36 folks die from 0.7% mortality rate , or about twice as many from average of 1.4% that is if there is plenty of medical help availible , if not ,more die.
Those numbers are only for people over 65. I am pretty sure that the men and women aboard a Naval Aircraft Carrier don't fit into the demographics being used to panic the sheep.
Compromising OPSEC for one life? I really really hope you are not in charge of anything more than sanitation.
And to that bullshit of "if he saved one life"
Compromising OPSEC for one life? I really really hope you are not in charge of anything more than sanitation.
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