Consistency, or lack thereof

[WeR0206]

Sounds like maybe something might be up that's not related to charge weight..?

Something seems wonky. I don't own/run a .308, but just by pumping what you've shared about your load into Hogdon's load data site, with 168s and Varget, it doesn't appear ~42gn should be showing pressure (and while some primers are better than others as far as consistency, IDK if different primers really matter much as far as pressure/MV IME, so I wouldn't even factor that in or worry about that as long as they go bang).

View attachment 8723305

When's the last time you pulled out the borescope and looked at your chamber? Remember, Varget means awesome, but it also means a carbon ring you have to stay on top of...

For cross reference here’s sierra’s load data. Looks like they have max for varget at 45gr @ 2,750 fps. I wouldn’t expect him to be getting sticky bolts at 43 grades either but I guess each chamber and barrow is unique. As you said there could be a carbon ring or something.

 

[flogxal]

Yep. Took a break from the sport for a while, but hit the LR Regional last fall, and it's on the list for September this year as well.

That's my home range, but I avoid it on match weekends as they are always using either the 600yds or 1000yds, and I don't know any of the local BR shooters.

 

[memilanuk]

That's my home range, but I avoid it on match weekends as they are always using either the 600yds or 1000yds, and I don't know any of the local BR shooters.

Not a BR shooter (yet).

There were a couple spots open for the LR Regional in September, as of a few days ago.

 

[Josh Umsted]

Yes you’re correct on that but also, If you have variation in case length or bullet length it causes variation in the seating depth in the neck which causes variation in pressures/velocity. More depth = more pressure.

I never realized this connection before playing around with gordons reloading tool and learning the different relationships between all the different inputs and outputs. IMO the scientific fields that would help one best understand reloading and precision shooting would be systems engineer & statistics.

Yup. I was good at stats in college. Had a good teacher, and was good enough at science to at least understand methodology and figure out a computer program. Spent my career in behavioral science.

 

[Maurygold]

Opinions on click-adjustable sizing dies? Looking at Whidden. Hate to spend the money but it would speed up my process. Whidden offers dies with or without bushing for the same price. If I went with a bushing die rather than expander mandrel, that would really refine my process. Wonder if the bushing in the Whidden die can be removed if I don’t like it, or just go with the FL die. Will ask Whidden before ordering.

bushing dies are FL dies. The click adjustable just moves the die up and down for bump. you should get the bushing die. you do not need a mandrel. but if you later choose to use one you buy a smaller bushing and then expand with the mandrel.

I'm guessing you're new or newer to relaoding in which i highly recommend you just use a bushing die no mandrel as it is entirely possible to shoot 5-8 SD without ever touching a mandrel

 

[Josh Umsted]

Sounds like maybe something might be up that's not related to charge weight..?

Something seems wonky. I don't own/run a .308, but just by pumping what you've shared about your load into Hogdon's load data site, with 168s and Varget, it doesn't appear ~42gn should be showing pressure (and while some primers are better than others as far as consistency, IDK if different primers really matter much as far as pressure/MV IME, so I wouldn't even factor that in or worry about that as long as they go bang).

View attachment 8723305

When's the last time you pulled out the borescope and looked at your chamber? Remember, Varget means awesome, but it also means a carbon ring you have to stay on top of...

I used Hodgdon data until learning GRT. It wasn’t in line with reality. They tested with different brass. In hindsight, it was a headspace issue. That was probably before I learned about shoulder bump, and how changes to brass dimensions effect pressure.

The rifle is due for cleaning. Maybe 200 shots down the tube since last cleaning, and a light one at that, using only hoppes #9. I’ve been cleaning pretty religiously with thoro clean/flush. 200 rounds is the most I’ve shot between cleanings. Don’t have a bore scope yet. Need an adjustable sizing die first. My sizing technique has improved, but my Redding die is hard to adjust. An adjustable bushing die will save a bunch extra steps, and with the right bushing, potentially eliminate need for the mandrel. Deprime, Fl size, prime and expand are each separate steps and I don’t like it. One die can do all that, except prime, which I do on the press anyway.

2700 fps seems to be a happy place for the bergers. Sierras liked that velocity, too. They also seem to like 2630ish. 2700 is achievable at about 43.6 grains of Varget if other pressure factors are better controlled. Not too concerned with brass or barrel life.

 

[JerkyFreak]

.308 with Lapua brass use a .336 bushing and your done.

Never saw the need for an adjustable bump die. The die body has a 14TPI thread. 1/32 turn is approximately 2 thou. Seems easy enough to measure the shoulders and adjust any die to get the required 2 thou jump. Then lock it in place. I have a sizing die for every target rifle and a general die for playing around with my hunting rifle.

Haven't annealed my brass either. Still get the required bump within 1 thou without having to adjust my sizing dies. And I challenge anybody to show me results on how a difference of 1 thou shoulder bump screwed their precision.

 

[Josh Umsted]

.308 with Lapua brass use a .336 bushing and your done.

Never saw the need for an adjustable bump die. The die body has a 14TPI thread. 1/32 turn is approximately 2 thou. Seems easy enough to measure the shoulders and adjust any die to get the required 2 thou jump. Then lock it in place. I have a sizing die for every target rifle and a general die for playing around with my hunting rifle.

Haven't annealed my brass either. Still get the required bump within 1 thou without having to adjust my sizing dies. And I challenge anybody to show me results on how a difference of 1 thou shoulder bump screwed their precision.

The lock ring on my die is sticky. Guess I could change it.

My problem early on was with undersized cases. User error.

 

[WeR0206]

.308 with Lapua brass use a .336 bushing and your done.

Never saw the need for an adjustable bump die. The die body has a 14TPI thread. 1/32 turn is approximately 2 thou. Seems easy enough to measure the shoulders and adjust any die to get the required 2 thou jump. Then lock it in place. I have a sizing die for every target rifle and a general die for playing around with my hunting rifle.

Haven't annealed my brass either. Still get the required bump within 1 thou without having to adjust my sizing dies. And I challenge anybody to show me results on how a difference of 1 thou shoulder bump screwed their precision.

Another alternative to the micrometer bump dies (which seem overpriced to me) are shell holder sets that have .001” difference in thickness allowing you to fine tune bump by swapping shell holders out instead of adjusting the die. Redding and Im sure other companies make these sets.

Ive been fine using standard FL dies with a witness mark on top. Without a mark itd be much harder to adjust.

 

[WeR0206]

The lock ring on my die is sticky. Guess I could change it.

My problem early on was with undersized cases. User error.

Everyone (including myself) seems to like the hornady lock rings.

 

[Josh Umsted]

For cross reference here’s sierra’s load data. Looks like they have max for varget at 45gr @ 2,750 fps. I wouldn’t expect him to be getting sticky bolts at 43 grades either but I guess each chamber and barrow is unique. As you said there could be a carbon ring or something.

View attachment 8723311

That’s the thing about published loads. I looked up max charge from 3 different sources and got 3 different answers.

 

[Josh Umsted]

Another alternative to the micrometer bump dies (which seem overpriced to me) are shell holder sets that have .001” difference in thickness allowing you to fine tune bump by swapping shell holders out instead of adjusting the die. Redding and Im sure other companies make these sets.

Ive been fine using standard FL dies with a witness mark on top. Without a mark itd be much harder to adjust.

That’s why I went with the Forster fl bushing die. Hash marks are good enough for me, and a little cheaper.

 

[CK1.0]

I used Hodgdon data until learning GRT. It wasn’t in line with reality. They tested with different brass. In hindsight, it was a headspace issue. That was probably before I learned about shoulder bump, and how changes to brass dimensions effect pressure.

The rifle is due for cleaning. Maybe 200 shots down the tube since last cleaning, and a light one at that, using only hoppes #9. I’ve been cleaning pretty religiously with thoro clean/flush. 200 rounds is the most I’ve shot between cleanings. Don’t have a bore scope yet. Need an adjustable sizing die first. My sizing technique has improved, but my Redding die is hard to adjust. An adjustable bushing die will save a bunch extra steps, and with the right bushing, potentially eliminate need for the mandrel. Deprime, Fl size, prime and expand are each separate steps and I don’t like it. One die can do all that, except prime, which I do on the press anyway.

2700 fps seems to be a happy place for the bergers. Sierras liked that velocity, too. They also seem to like 2630ish. 2700 is achievable at about 43.6 grains of Varget if other pressure factors are better controlled. Not too concerned with brass or barrel life.

If you’ve never looked at your chamber with a borescope, I’d bet you $5 that you have a carbon ring in there (how bad it is, and how much it’s affecting things, is the question, gotta get it out in order to see).

You don’t need a fancy sizing die, a $20 Lee die will make great ammo when used correctly. You do need a borescope though… not for going bananas with, but for knowing what’s going on in there instead of guessing.

 

[memilanuk]

If you’ve never looked at your chamber with a borescope, I’d bet you $5 that you have a carbon ring in there

He's shooting a 308, right?

Carbon rings aren't really a problem for that cartridge (usually).

 

[Josh Umsted]

If you’ve never looked at your chamber with a borescope, I’d bet you $5 that you have a carbon ring in there (how bad it is, and how much it’s affecting things, is the question, gotta get it out in order to see).

You don’t need a fancy sizing die, a $20 Lee die will make great ammo when used correctly. You do need a borescope though… not for going bananas with, but for knowing what’s going on in there instead of guessing.

I know. A bore scope is in my near future. My sizing die would be fine with a new lock ring, and probably the ball expander. The Forster will make life a little easier. And I’ve replaced the two necessary dies in a 3 die set dad bought from a friend. Gonna sell them.

 

[CK1.0]

I know. A bore scope is in my near future. My sizing die would be fine with a new lock ring, and probably the ball expander. The Forster will make life a little easier. And I’ve replaced the two necessary dies in a 3 die set dad bought from a friend. Gonna sell them.

Well, Hornady doesn’t get the best rap around here for most things, but they do make decent die lock-rings.

 

[CK1.0]

He's shooting a 308, right?

Carbon rings aren't really a problem for that cartridge (usually).

I hear ya, but having burned up many jugs of Varget, I would be suspicious without checking and knowing… and a borescope is better than waiting for blown primers or worse…

 

[memilanuk]

I hear ya, but having burned up many jugs of Varget, I would be suspicious without checking and knowing… and a borescope is better than waiting for blown primers or worse…

Having burned up many, many jugs of Varget in 308s from 155s to 200s over the last 20 years or so, it's really not an issue.

Having and using a borescope isn't a terrible idea, but of all the things that might be going on with this guy's rifle, a carbon ring is one of the very last rocks I'd be turning over.

 

[Inline6]

I hear ya, but having burned up many jugs of Varget, I would be suspicious without checking and knowing… and a borescope is better than waiting for blown primers or worse…

Trying my best to follow along with this thread. I was going to ask the same question.

When was the last time this barrel was cleaned. Just reading everything it sounds well over 500rds on it? Maybe I'm off, just scrolling that's what it looks like. If it was cleaned how did you confirm no carbon ring?

 

[CK1.0]

Having burned up many, many jugs of Varget in 308s from 155s to 200s over the last 20 years or so, it's really not an issue.

Having and using a borescope isn't a terrible idea, but of all the things that might be going on with this guy's rifle, a carbon ring is one of the very last rocks I'd be turning over.

Fair enough, you might be right.

But whether first or the last rock to turn over, it's a rock that needs to be turned over.

That said, after thinking about it, and based on what's been said, it seems like f'ed up headspace (as in too much bump) is the more likely cause. With what the OP has shared, as far as him being green when it comes to sizing dies and bump, I'm leaning more that way. Especially since I remembered him having a "dud" (FTF) in one of the vids he posted... and wonky chrono numbers and false pressure signs on the brass would jive with that.

Like a lot of guys, I've shot a lot of f'ing rounds, and "duds", as in bad primers that don't go off, are rare. But bump the shoulders back too much (even by just 1-2 thou too much) and FTFs become frustratingly and annoyingly common (been there, sucks lol).

I think a lot of guys new to reloading don't understand that if one's bump isn't going to be consistent and repeatable, and possibly one might be bumping too much (which is what it sounds like here), it's actually probably better to not even bother bumping the shoulders back at all until you can nail it (and IMHO one needs to own a comparator that indexes off the shoulder datum, and a decent die lock-ring that clamps around the die-body and doesn't shift/move to stick on their sizing die, to nail it).

FWIW/FYI to those that don't know, when setting bump, it's based on the longest measured case(s), and then just running the shorter cases through the same die after it's been set and locked in with a lock-ring (the short ones don't get bumped until they grow long enough to get bumped). Do it right the first time, once, and then you don't have to touch it again for the life of the barrel (in other words, it's not something you have to measure for and adjust every cycle). I mention this because, yeah, I've heard/read of guys measuring each individual case and trying to bump each f'ing one back 2 thou or whatever (hard fail lol), and/or guys just grabbing any random case each cycle and setting their bump off that (works if one's lucky enough to grab one of the longer ones, unlucky and grab a shorter one, and you start getting clicks instead of bangs).

 

[Josh Umsted]

I hear ya, but having burned up many jugs of Varget, I would be suspicious without checking and knowing… and a borescope is better than waiting for blown primers or worse…

Maybe 10# of Varget. This is my second barrel. Won’t know if there’s a carbon ring until I look, but I doubt it. It shot better than expected last time out, four consecutive groups in a ladder test averaged about .30” vertical. Two of those were less than .25”. I don’t see a problem.

 

[JerkyFreak]

If I remember correctly the FTF was from an upside down primer.

If you see the amount of headspace on virgin brass, youll realise that the majority of dies cannot bump the shoulder more than that; even if you jam the die into the shellholder.

Bunping the shoulder too much does not cause FTF unless you've turned the die body shorter, using the wrong die, wrong brass or chamber cut with excessive headspace, i.e. no-go guage chambering.

 

[CK1.0]

If you see the amount of headspace on virgin brass, youll realise that the majority of dies cannot bump the shoulder more than that; even if you jam the die into the shellholder.

Bunping the shoulder too much does not cause FTF unless you've turned the die body shorter, using the wrong die, wrong brass or chamber cut with excessive headspace, i.e. no-go guage chambering.

Not IME.

I've had multiple different sizing dies that would allow me to bump my shoulder too much, and have seen it with a couple of different friends and their stuff. And while I can't speak for my friend's stuff, all of my barrels have been cut with SAAMI chambers and wouldn't close on no-go gauges.

I can't remember which brand it was, but a couple of years ago I had one that'd bump brass back 6-7 thou if you just screwed it down to touch the shell plate...

I think it just might depend on multiple factors, including the type of press one uses, etc.

But, also yeah, as far as some new brass being short, I've had some arrive super short and below SAAMI minimum when brand-new.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Need an adjustable sizing die first. My sizing technique has improved, but my Redding die is hard to adjust. An adjustable bushing die will save a bunch extra steps, and with the right bushing, potentially eliminate need for the mandrel.

This thread really took off! Anyway, here is another approach to adjusting your sizing die in small steps.

PMA Micro Die Adjuster Pro

The highest quality, most innovative reloading tools and shooting supplies for precision riflemen. Unparalleled customer service. Shop Now - PMA Tool

www.pmatool.com

 

[JerkyFreak]

I have just measured my firing pin protrusion (Barnard P action) and it is 0.052" as close as I can measure. This means, that I have to bump the case shoulders by 30 thou at least to get a chance of a FTF. I do not know of any standard dies where it is even possible.

SAAMI tolerance for headspace is 0.010", so I expect standard dies to do at least that. Brass life won't be great, but it should still work in any standard chamber.

If you get a FTF due to a headspace of <10 thou, get the firing pin protrusion checked or change the spring.

 

[WeR0206]

Sorry to say, but after watching that video, this thread should probably be closed, or at least moved from the Reloading section, because what you're seeing on target likely has little or nothing to do with reloading IMHO.

A shitty bench has nothing to do with your cheek-piece being way too high and you being bladed like a MFer behind the gun, and if the benches suck at your club to the point that somehow guys there rationlize using that lame-ass front rest, you should already have just gone prone with your bipod.

All of that shit needs to be squared away (and the rifle-system too) before you start questioning the reloading aspect of all this.

Reloading can be such an annoying topic sometimes because there is so much BS out there that guys just parrot back and forth to each other. Like, IDK where you got "up to just under 62,000 psi, where good things happen" nonsense from, but between that and you using the term "node" like it's a real thing (it's not) makes it seem fairly obvious you're drinking too much of that Kool-Aid.

I do think your sliding and bouncing front rest (and maybe your rear one) are definitely adding massive noise to your reloading analysis.

This is what I do to counter shitty range benches that don’t allow me to get square behind the rifle:

View attachment 8722501
Rotate them 180°. Use a good bipod, and do what Frank and Mark teach at their classes: clamp a piece of wood down to get your bipod some purchase.

The Phil Velayo vid above has that exercise to teach you how to not overly load your bipod, and that comes in handy when you have a solid setup to push against. Don’t overdo it.

I now also use a piece of tough welcome mat to better replicate dirt (deaden bounce). It seems the vast majority of PRS shooters use the stock rubber feet, according to that PRS blog “What the pros use”.
View attachment 8722504

I use Frank’s bench method of leaning in at the hips and squaring up, all the better to replicate prone (which I cannot actually do due to my neck).

1) square up, do Phil’s bridge technique
2) hands off gun, aim gun with body, notice if bipod is binding. If so, re-square bipod to target.
3) add grip hand, pull back into shoulder
4) breathe; see up/down reticle movement (Phil)
5) if ret movement isn’t plumb, you’re not square
6) slide rear bag in, pull up slightly and squeeze to limit reticle heartbeat bounce
7) shoot

Early in my journey, I tried a Bald Eagle front rest with a Protektor front bag and a Protektor 13b rabbit ear rear bag. Hated it. Felt like I was in a box, not connected to the gun or to shooting. Felt like the setup was trying to get the human less involved (not more) in the event. Yuk.

But maybe you’ll find that’s your thing. You’ll just have to experiment. If you do go squeeze bag, get a Mark Taylor one @Enough Said. Best one I’ve run across (tried Tab and Precision Underground). I can’t quite tell what kind of rear bag you’re using.

What do you guys think about the below advice on best way to mount a rifle?

 

[flogxal]

He says it doesn't really affect / involve bipod, but in order to do what he says, you're going to have to have long enough bipod legs to start in that heads-up position. Starting high is counter-intuitive in prone, where everything else about prone is getting low and flat to the ground.

Biggest points to me: start high, start more centered, don't be a slave to your initial scope setup.

This point about stock position (on the buffer tube, with AR) and avoiding crawling on the stock, it is why I swapped out the PRS Lite stock on my rifles. LOP fine for standing work, too long in prone and I was crawling up the stock. I still wonder who the PRS Lite was made for, anatomically.

 

[WeR0206]

He says it doesn't really affect / involve bipod, but in order to do what he says, you're going to have to have long enough bipod legs to start in that heads-up position. Starting high is counter-intuitive in prone, where everything else about prone is getting low and flat to the ground.

Biggest points to me: start high, start more centered, don't be a slave to your initial scope setup.

This point about stock position (on the buffer tube, with AR) and avoiding crawling on the stock, it is why I swapped out the PRS Lite stock on my rifles. LOP fine for standing work, too long in prone and I was crawling up the stock. I still wonder who the PRS Lite was made for, anatomically.

Good points. What did you replace the PRS lite stock with?

 

[flogxal]

Back to ACS Lite with some foam padding taped onto it, for cheek riser. One hole difference on stock position between standing and prone.

If I took Joe/Bruiser too literally, I could move the scope rearward and continue using PRS Lite. But then it feels scrunched when standing, eyebox wise.

Another thing with ARs that Joe didn't talk specifically about in that video -- whether the butt of the stock is curved or flat. Most AR stocks have a slight curve contour at the butt. Some are flat, like the B5 Precision. Arisaka makes an insert/adaptor to make some of Magpul's stocks flat.

Some folks find it easier/more consistent if the contour is removed and made flat.

 

[carbonbased]

What do you guys think about the below advice on best way to mount a rifle?

That’s basically what Frank teaches. Understanding that the “shoulder pocket” is not the shoulder/body depression/junction was the key moment for me in precision shooting.

I don’t shoot prone, just bench and tripod. I set up all my rifles with the scope mounted as far back as possible on the pic rail. Sometimes centering the scope between the rings is fine for correct eye relief, sometimes not. If not, I need to pull the scope back in the rings towards me.

I’m 5’10” average build.

The buttstock goes under your shooting eye (as close to that as possible). It’s going to feel weird, as it goes over your collarbone right as it plunges down towards the center of your body.

The two biggest tips I got from this site are:

1. where there shoulder pocket is
2. adjust the front rest/bipod to the rear bag height (not the other way around)

On the bench, I found that in order to get into a “prone-ish” position, I needed a lower bag than many use for actual prone. YMMV.

#3 big tip was that Velayo bipod vid I posted above. Huge ah-ha moment for me. I was the type that just plopped the butt into the bag. Tip #3 really turbocharged tips #1 & #2, but it’s taken a little while to get the hang of it.

 

[Maurygold]

What do you guys think about the below advice on best way to mount a rifle?

The most helpful thing for new shooters is to learn to use the rear bag. The gun should rest in the bag, which you squeeze, and you should have zero input into the rifle from your shooting hand other than squeezing the trigger. Let the bags do the work.

 

[WeR0206]

Back to ACS Lite with some foam padding taped onto it, for cheek riser. One hole difference on stock position between standing and prone.

If I took Joe/Bruiser too literally, I could move the scope rearward and continue using PRS Lite. But then it feels scrunched when standing, eyebox wise.

Another thing with ARs that Joe didn't talk specifically about in that video -- whether the butt of the stock is curved or flat. Most AR stocks have a slight curve contour at the butt. Some are flat, like the B5 Precision. Arisaka makes an insert/adaptor to make some of Magpul's stocks flat.

Some folks find it easier/more consistent if the contour is removed and made flat.

I have the arisaka adapter for the lower I use on my 6 arc build. At first I thought it was too heavy but it kinda balances the rifle out some more. I like it.

That’s basically what Frank teaches. Understanding that the “shoulder pocket” is not the shoulder/body depression/junction was the key moment for me in precision shooting.

I don’t shoot prone, just bench and tripod. I set up all my rifles with the scope mounted as far back as possible on the pic rail. Sometimes centering the scope between the rings is fine for correct eye relief, sometimes not. If not, I need to pull the scope back in the rings towards me.

I’m 5’10” average build.

The buttstock goes under your shooting eye (as close to that as possible). It’s going to feel weird, as it goes over your collarbone right as it plunges down towards the center of your body.

The two biggest tips I got from this site are:

1. where there shoulder pocket is
2. adjust the front rest/bipod to the rear bag height (not the other way around)

On the bench, I found that in order to get into a “prone-ish” position, I needed a lower bag than many use for actual prone. YMMV.

#3 big tip was that Velayo bipod vid I posted above. Huge ah-ha moment for me. I was the type that just plopped the butt into the bag. Tip #3 really turbocharged tips #1 & #2, but it’s taken a little while to get the hang of it.

I mainly shoot on a bench as well. Which type of rear bag and bipod do you like to use?

I know its not ideal but im on a pretty fixed budget. Im currently using a magpul bipod (sling stud mount) with an OG game changer as my rear bag. I also have a squishy rear bag which I rarely use.

 

[Josh Umsted]

Well, Hornady doesn’t get the best rap around here for most things, but they do make decent die

Fair enough, you might be right.

But whether first or the last rock to turn over, it's a rock that needs to be turned over.

That said, after thinking about it, and based on what's been said, it seems like f'ed up headspace (as in too much bump) is the more likely cause. With what the OP has shared, as far as him being green when it comes to sizing dies and bump, I'm leaning more that way. Especially since I remembered him having a "dud" (FTF) in one of the vids he posted... and wonky chrono numbers and false pressure signs on the brass would jive with that.

Like a lot of guys, I've shot a lot of f'ing rounds, and "duds", as in bad primers that don't go off, are rare. But bump the shoulders back too much (even by just 1-2 thou too much) and FTFs become frustratingly and annoyingly common (been there, sucks lol).

I think a lot of guys new to reloading don't understand that if one's bump isn't going to be consistent and repeatable, and possibly one might be bumping too much (which is what it sounds like here), it's actually probably better to not even bother bumping the shoulders back at all until you can nail it (and IMHO one needs to own a comparator that indexes off the shoulder datum, and a decent die lock-ring that clamps around the die-body and doesn't shift/move to stick on their sizing die, to nail it).

FWIW/FYI to those that don't know, when setting bump, it's based on the longest measured case(s), and then just running the shorter cases through the same die after it's been set and locked in with a lock-ring (the short ones don't get bumped until they grow long enough to get bumped). Do it right the first time, once, and then you don't have to touch it again for the life of the barrel (in other words, it's not something you have to measure for and adjust every cycle). I mention this because, yeah, I've heard/read of guys measuring each individual case and trying to bump each f'ing one back 2 thou or whatever (hard fail lol), and/or guys just grabbing any random case each cycle and setting their bump off that (works if one's lucky enough to grab one of the longer ones, unlucky and grab a shorter one, and you start getting clicks instead of bangs).

Yes. Thanks for the tip to set bump based on the longest case. There were to,es I didn’t have enough bump, too. I do use a comparator to measure bump and seating depth. Inconsistent case length was also one of many factors. I trusted my trimmer was doing its job. Apparently it wasn’t. Got that sorted.

Ive learned so much in the past week. Brass is most important. There’s nothing wrong with the rifle. Internal ballistics has been demystified. A logical, evidence-based approach to load development, including how to read and interpret groups is just what I needed. Tips on improved shooting weren’t expected, though they were necessary. I was prompted to video myself, which I’d been meaning to do anyway, and got some very direct feedback. Clamping a 2x2 to the bench made a difference. Looking at that as a training tool.

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[flogxal]

I know its not ideal but im on a pretty fixed budget. Im currently using a magpul bipod (sling stud mount) with an OG game changer as my rear bag. I also have a squishy rear bag which I rarely use.

I tried using the GameChanger as rear bag but it's just too big & bulky for me to use well. It's a great prop bag though.

I got one of Taylor's bags and it is perfect. The "Answer" bag.

Using the bag well, keeping it stable, squeezing/firming it up properly, makes a big difference.

 

[WeR0206]

I tried using the GameChanger as rear bag but it's just too big & bulky for me to use well. It's a great prop bag though.

I got one of Taylor's bags and it is perfect. The "Answer" bag.

Using the bag well, keeping it stable, squeezing/firming it up properly, makes a big difference.

Oh nice, do you know if he’s still making the bags? I found a thread with his paypal info but it was from like 2 yrs ago.

Post in thread 'Custom Two Inch Taller "The Answer" Rear Bag by Enough Said'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...rear-bag-by-enough-said.7160562/post-10754770

Edit: nevermind, just found this post from a little over a week ago. Sounds like hes pretty swamped at the moment:

Post in thread 'The "Taylor was Here" Rear Bag - Answer - Compromise - Grande' - *TRAINING HOLD*'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...se-grande-training-hold.7128412/post-12215579

 

[Josh Umsted]

Oh nice, do you know if he’s still making the bags? I found a thread with his paypal info but it was from like 2 yrs ago.

Post in thread 'Custom Two Inch Taller "The Answer" Rear Bag by Enough Said'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...rear-bag-by-enough-said.7160562/post-10754770

Edit: nevermind, just found this post from a little over a week ago. Sounds like hes pretty swamped at the moment:

Post in thread 'The "Taylor was Here" Rear Bag - Answer - Compromise - Grande' - *TRAINING HOLD*'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...se-grande-training-hold.7128412/post-12215579

FWIW, the pint sized game changer is super versatile. Picked one up at Utah Airguns. Didn’t even know it was pint sized until we rung it up. Felt good in my hand. It’s small enough it works fine for me as a rear bag.

 

[flogxal]

I think he's swamped with both teaching and with the bags. I have the honor of learning from lowlight and Taylor later this month in Nebraska. I am sure I will learn some improvements on bag use.

 

[CK1.0]

What do you guys think about the below advice on best way to mount a rifle?

My take is: that’s one way of explaining it, and it’s not wrong, but I tend to think the stuff about mounting the gun with the buttstock high on the shoulder and then rolling into it is a little convoluted. To make things easier and more straightforward, I’d just say something like “you want the buttstock close to your centerline, more on one’s pectoral, closer to the sternum than in/on the shoulder, head up, mostly straight, not leaned over and/or mashed into the gun”.

That, and I disagree about setting up one’s eye relief/LOP while prone. I prefer to set up my guns while kneeling off a barricade of some sort (mixing in some standing unsupported with an AR). Prone is the most stable position we ever find ourselves in, so catering to it when it’s one of the only position where moving one’s head back or forth a little to be comfortable behind the scope isn’t a big deal just doesn’t jive for me. IMHO, I feel like if one sets up their LOP/eye relief to be right when kneeling off a barricade/prop, then prone (just about all the other positions like sitting/standing) just seems to take care of itself.

Chad Heckler/MDT has a good video about it (and I do it like he does it):

 

[WeR0206]

My take is: that’s one way of explaining it, and it’s not wrong, but I tend to think the stuff about mounting the gun with the buttstock high on the shoulder and then rolling into it is a little convoluted. To make things easier and more straightforward, I’d just say something like “you want the buttstock close to your centerline, more on one’s pectoral, closer to the sternum than in/on the shoulder, head up, mostly straight, not leaned over and/or mashed into the gun”.

That, and I disagree about setting up one’s eye relief/LOP while prone. I prefer to set up my guns while kneeling off a barricade of some sort (mixing in some standing unsupported with an AR). Prone is the most stable position we ever find ourselves in, so catering to it when it’s one of the only position where moving one’s head back or forth a little to be comfortable behind the scope isn’t a big deal just doesn’t jive for me. IMHO, I feel like if one sets up their LOP/eye relief to be right when kneeling off a barricade/prop, then prone (just about all the other positions like sitting/standing) just seems to take care of itself.

Chad Heckler/MDT has a good video about it (and I do it like he does it):

Thanks. I like your way better as well. Makes more sense to me to set it up while kneeling instead of prone.