Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

[Kiba]

With the pivoting handle equipped action is there a recommended trigger. Or if I choose to run a Bix’n Andy At 12-16oz. Will it work.

A 2 stage BnA Tacsport works perfect in my Archimedes. It's never failed to set or let the firing pin fall on closing the bolt handle even when running it fast with an empty chamber for testing. I'm using the low sear (per my measurements and also ARC's chart) and it's set for about 0.005" decocking on close. Not sure what height sear the CDG will need, I'm sure ARC will post a chart at some point.

I have my BnA set at 2# total (1# 1st stage, 2# 2nd stage.) Keep in mind the BnA Tacsport isn't a true 2 stage with extra sear engagement that is reduced to minimum in the first stage travel, rather the pseudo-first stage in the Tacsport is just an adjustable pull weight and pull length spring loaded rotation of the trigger shoe lever until the rear of the trigger shoe lever contacts the lower sear bar. The actual lower sear engagement remains constant when taking up the pseudo-first stage. The actual trigger pull weight that actuates the lower sear is 1# in my setup, and like I said I've had zero issues with my Archimedes. The CDG with the pivoting bolt handle should behave similarly.

Now if you try and go 12-16 oz total (say 6-8 oz first stage, 6-8 oz second stage) I can't say how that will play with the pivoting bolt handle.

The main reason the pivoting bolt handle is more trigger sensitive than the fixed/camming bolt handle is that if you have the trigger set for zero cock on close to some cocking on close the cocking piece will impact the trigger top sear at full bolt closing speed when closing the bolt and that "hit" can upset a sensitive trigger. With the fixed/camming handle, the first thing that impacts when closing the bolt is the extraction camming surface on the fixed handle contacting the camming surface on the receiver, and those camming surfaces will take the initial "hit" of the bolt closing and slow the bolt velocity down before the cocking piece hits the sear and you rotate the bolt handle closed.

Part of the reason I have my Archimedes set for -0.005" decocking on close is so the cocking piece won't hit the sear when running the bolt until the bolt is fully forward in battery and you start to rotate the bolt handle down, and the bolt rotation lets the cocking ramps on the back of the bolt body slowly let the cocking piece down to the sear. I figured this would be easier on the trigger in the long run. The -0.005 decocking causes a nearly imperceptible bump in the bolt handle feel right as you start to rotate the bolt handle closed as the firing pin spring working against the cocking ramps helps to close the bolt handle just slightly; you have to be running the bolt really slowly on the bench and try to feel for it. When you're running the bolt normally and chambering a round you don't even notice it, running the bolt is extremely smooth.

 

[midwestoffroad]

Good to hear I Run the 2 stageTacsport In 4 of my rifles. If need be I have a couple of the Bix Dakotas that should Fine or a few other of my rifles i can pull a 2 stage Diamond or the 2 stage special or even a 2 stage Huber. So I have plenty to play with.
If I need any sears I'll give Zach at Bullet Central a call.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I understand where your coming from. Most issues with pressure while using the 1-1/16" tenon are from barrels utilizing a barrel nut, at least from my research. I plan on running a 1.2" straight bull on my future build. I am actually half tempted to try and get a lapua bolt for my defiance action and build off of it. I am not sure I will be using the CDG for that build. I just wanted a confirmation from ARC.
I still plan on getting one either way. For what who knows. I am never satisfied with what I have and always want something else to try out.

This is not the case. There's all kinds of documented cases of non large shank barrels that are shouldered not working out well with large cases.

There's a reason actions like the Surgeon 1086 and AI AXSR/AXMC use large tenons.

Anytime you run a lapua size cartridge in a small shank you are rolling the dice.

 

[greenswoave]

While everyone in the shop is busy making action parts Ted has been busy on a open top/lightweight design of the Coup De Grâce. I think you guys will love it.

I’ll be all over this one for a hunting rig

 

[Forstyle]

We are waiting on one more barrel to come in so we can verify the conical breach configuration. As soon as we have it we will release the barrel drawing.

While everyone in the shop is busy making action parts Ted has been busy on a open top/lightweight design of the Coup De Grâce. I think you guys will love it.

Jon, will this lightweight option be a similar price? Also will it have an integral rail as well, any range that you're expecting to weigh?

Thanks Jon.

 

[Franko]

We are waiting on one more barrel to come in so we can verify the conical breach configuration. As soon as we have it we will release the barrel drawing.

While everyone in the shop is busy making action parts Ted has been busy on a open top/lightweight design of the Coup De Grâce. I think you guys will love it.

I am very interested in a lightweight hunting version of the CDG but do have one request for you to pass on to Ted. If a full length mounting rail on top isn't in the cards please give us enough room to mount shorter scopes like the new March 1.5-15x42 Dual Focal.

 

[atomic41]

I'm trying to get caught up on this thread after being away for a bit. Has there been a straight answer to the question of what will regular price be after the presale is done?

 

[Kiba]

I'm trying to get caught up on this thread after being away for a bit. Has there been a straight answer to the question of what will regular price be after the presale is done?

ARC hasn't said anything but my guess is it will be priced similarly to the Archimedes since it is replacing it, maybe a little less since the parts count is lower. We'll see in another couple days when the pre order pricing is over.

 

[carlooa]

@CaylenW got all the cdg content. Hopefully he’ll share his experience here. We need sustenance for these long 2 months. Hah.

 

[giumau1]

Since the swap is so easy I will try also the pivoting BH, but for my primary intended use, PRS, I went conservative with the fixed one, being 10 oz my preferred Trigger weight

 

[FredHammer]

@CaylenW got all the cdg content.

Having no bind of the bolt on various axis pressure is a big deal. This was absolutely required back in the day for milsurps. One can test this pretty easily by holding the rifle only by the bolt knob pulled against the stop and seeing if the weight of the gun will still let the bolt slide in the action.

I'm even more intrigued now...

 

[carlooa]

He says it feels like an AI. Only grip with AI for me is bolt lift. If it feels like an ai through the bolt travel with lighter bolt lift, that’s exciting.

 

[Jon_ARC]

Jon, will this lightweight option be a similar price? Also will it have an integral rail as well, any range that you're expecting to weigh?

Thanks Jon.

All good questions but still to early to say. We are going for as light as possible. There will be an integral rail but just not full length.

 

[Jon_ARC]

I am very interested in a lightweight hunting version of the CDG but do have one request for you to pass on to Ted. If a full length mounting rail on top isn't in the cards please give us enough room to mount shorter scopes like the new March 1.5-15x42 Dual Focal.

When we first started on the design we knew we wanted to accommodate shorter scopes. We have got it covered. You are going to love this one.

 

[st1650]

He says it feels like an AI. Only grip with AI for me is bolt lift. If it feels like an ai through the bolt travel with lighter bolt lift, that’s exciting.

I’m going CDG over AT-X on my next build specifically for that reason.

 

[kthomas]

He says it feels like an AI. Only grip with AI for me is bolt lift. If it feels like an ai through the bolt travel with lighter bolt lift, that’s exciting.

AI bolt lift is atrocious. I think it's understated how heavy the AI bolt lift is.

I don't think that's what Caylen meant though when he made that statement. His comment seemed to be how the action locked up when a round is put in the chamber.

The bolt lift looks pretty decent in the videos, thankfully nothing like an AI.

 

[RFutch]

AI bolt lift is atrocious. I think it's understated how heavy the AI bolt lift is.

I don't think that's what Caylen meant though when he made that statement. His comment seemed to be how the action locked up when a round is put in the chamber.

The bolt lift looks pretty decent in the videos, thankfully nothing like an AI.

This.

The one I felt at SHOT had a very light bolt lift.

 

[Kiba]

The bolt on my Archimedes runs one finger tip smooth like butter opening and closing. The only similarity to an AI is the reduced rotation angle IMO. CDG should run nearly the same.

Can't say the same regarding smoothness for my 2 AXSA's and my AXMC. AI bolts feel solid, but they aren't by any means smooth, lol! Lift is pretty heavy and there's a lot of over cocking on close, and because of that they are very clunky at certain spots in their travel. Solid yes, smooth no.

 

[357Max]

Has the run on AW mags started yet?

 

[carlooa]

When we first started on the design we knew we wanted to accommodate shorter scopes. We have got it covered. You are going to love this one.

Do we need the normal xylo wedge and regular length mag latch for the cdg?

AI bolt lift is atrocious. I think it's understated how heavy the AI bolt lift is.

I don't think that's what Caylen meant though when he made that statement. His comment seemed to be how the action locked up when a round is put in the chamber.

The bolt lift looks pretty decent in the videos, thankfully nothing like an AI.

I think he meant how smooth the feel is. Ai is super smooth and impossible to bind.

 

[kthomas]

I think he meant how smooth the feel is. Ai is super smooth and impossible to bind.

Perhaps that's what he meant, but certainly not how I would describe an AI.

Hard to bind, yes. Smooth, no.

 

[TheOE800]

Perhaps that's what he meant, but certainly not how I would describe an AI.

Hard to bind, yes. Smooth, no.

Knobby is how I’d describe AI. Smooth is how I’d describe a Defiance.

 

[kthomas]

Knobby is how I’d describe AI. Smooth is how I’d describe a Defiance.

I would describe an AI action as being heavy and clunky.

Defiance certainly would fit the description of smooth.

 

[buckleboy]

Has the run on AW mags started yet?

I got a notification that Midway got them in stock earlier today. Not sure if there are any remaining this afternoon.

 

[CMP70306]

When we first started on the design we knew we wanted to accommodate shorter scopes. We have got it covered. You are going to love this one.

So when the details on the hunting one get announced such as the weight and rail configuration would we possibly be able to convert our preorder over and pay the difference if we like the hunter version better?

 

[PRSDietitian]

Area 419 has them for 74 a pop

 

[PRSDietitian]

Any of m vet friends, you can get them for $66 after mil discount

 

[Simonsza1]

Even more so then the light weight hunter which I would like I still think a 22lr would excite me more. Feel like it’s all that arc is missing at the moment.

 

[Eagle1899]

Things I'd love for Ted and ARC to do:

Finish the light weight hunting action.

Design and build a Rimfire action.

Update and release the M2.

Design and build AW mags that hold more than 10 rounds.

 

[6cmShooter]

I'd be all over ordering a 22 action

 

[Gavin-in-Utah]

Rimfire would be great!

 

[Crotalus]

How bout a 4 or 5 round aw mag for hunting? Flush or close to flush fitting

 

[st1650]

market is already saturated with 22LRs ... Voodoo, RimX, Bergara, CZ, Tikka, etc ...

What the market doesn’t have right now are high quality double stack AW style magazines for 223, 6ARC, BR/Dashers, etc ...

Even a 5rnd flush AW 308 magazines would be really cool.

 

[FievelTX]

market is already saturated with 22LRs ... Voodoo, RimX, Bergara, CZ, Tikka, etc ...

What the market doesn’t have right now are high quality double stack AW style magazines for 223, 6ARC, BR/Dashers, etc ...

Even a 5rnd flush AW 308 magazines would be really cool.

The market is also saturated with R700 actions. That doesn’t meant ARC/Ted couldn’t make a much better one for a better price. .

There’s a lot of feeding issues with some rimfire actions as well. So there’s room for improvement.

Also rimfire popularity is growing exponentially and the supply already can’t meet the demand.

 

[Barelstroker]

The market is also saturated with R700 actions. That doesn’t meant ARC/Ted couldn’t make a much better one for a better price. .

There’s a lot of feeding issues with some rimfire actions as well. So there’s room for improvement.

Also rimfire popularity is growing exponentially and the supply already can’t meet the demand.

My sentiments also.
For some strange reason, manufacturers seem to think that only 308 family cartridges can be made to function in an AW style magazine.
No doubt there will have to be some significant design mods to accommodate some cartridges but, the rewards when run through an action suited to the AW mag presentation height would be significant.
It seems that the entire industry have been blinded to the AW concept &, I suppose in a way that's true, given the short-comings of conventionally designed actions however, now that Ted has made the leap & all but opened the flood doors, lets see some much needed market support for the CDG. I think someone may have already sent Ted an email outlining much needed market support for the CDG via an expanded line-up of case or, case family specific AW style magazines. Lets hope the guys don't let that horse bolt out of their coral.

 

[Islander]

Yeah, they told me the same thing. Prefered barrel blanks has the cdg listed on their site under the mousingfield/nuke tab as an option. Been meaning to ask for sure that they are doing conical breachs for this.

I spoke with them at the Arizona hunter match. They are doing the conical breach.

 

[Barelstroker]

I spoke with them at the Arizona hunter match. They are doing the conical breach.

From the way Ted explained the situation regarding some cartridges, it didn't appear to me to be an option. I took it more to mean whether or not they could proceed with a conical breach notwithstanding the current bolt head geometry.

 

[padfoot 37]

Things I'd love for Ted and ARC to do:

Finish the light weight hunting action.

Design and build a Rimfire action.

Update and release the M2.

Design and build AW mags that hold more than 10 rounds.

Like a 20 round aw mag the same size as a 1rnd aics mag.

 

[Fmilby]

So what companies who have confirmed they were doing pre fits? Can’t seem to find it in this monster thread.

Proof stated they were not planning on it at this time.

I heard from a friend that heard from a friend that Patriot valley was going to make pre fits

 

[padfoot 37]

I heard from a friend that heard from a friend that Patriot valley was going to make pre fits

Yeah? I emailed them, ill post what they reply when/if i get one.

 

[357Max]

Yeah? I emailed them, ill post what they reply when/if i get one.

PVA is going to tell to just place the order for any Arc action if the CDG isn’t already in their drop down list & then put CDG in the notes.

 

[whatsupdoc]

With a conventional action when you run the bolt forward the cocking piece does not strike the trigger sear, the bolts forward
motion stops when the handle and extraction cam make contact, the bolt is then rotated and the coking piece engages the trigger sear.

With this action I believe the cocking piece can strike the trigger sear with the full force you apply when manipulating the bolt depending
on the hanger position. Am I mistaken on this?

Has there been any info posted on how to adjust the trigger hanger?

 

[rijndael]

Has there been any info posted on how to adjust the trigger hanger?

Yes. ARC posted a video.

 

[AllenOne1]

With a conventional action when you run the bolt forward the cocking piece does not strike the trigger sear, the bolts forward
motion stops when the handle and extraction cam make contact, the bolt is then rotated and the coking piece engages the trigger sear.

With this action I believe the cocking piece can strike the trigger sear with the full force you apply when manipulating the bolt depending
on the hanger position. Am I mistaken on this?

Has there been any info posted on how to adjust the trigger hanger?

 

[lash]

Like a 20 round aw mag the same size as a 1rnd aics mag.

That’s asking for a bit much. Consider that a double stack mag has to stagger the rounds in order for them to actually be able to feed. That means that, all other mechanical considerations aside, you would need at least one extra full case diameter in depth. Then there is the unlikely scenario that one could make a spring for a twenty round mag that would work and also compress into the same space as a ten round mag spring would.

Consider that a ten round AW mag is not the same size as a five round AICS mag.

 

[padfoot 37]

That’s asking for a bit much. Consider that a double stack mag has to stagger the rounds in order for them to actually be able to feed. That means that, all other mechanical considerations aside, you would need at least one extra full case diameter in depth. Then there is the unlikely scenario that one could make a spring for a twenty round mag that would work and also compress into the same space as a ten round mag spring would.

Consider that a ten round AW mag is not the same size as a five round AICS mag.

Didnt say it was easy, maybe its not possible but has anyone really tried to step outside the box and problem solve it?

 

[padfoot 37]

Any good deals on aw mags before they disapear?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

That’s asking for a bit much. Consider that a double stack mag has to stagger the rounds in order for them to actually be able to feed. That means that, all other mechanical considerations aside, you would need at least one extra full case diameter in depth. Then there is the unlikely scenario that one could make a spring for a twenty round mag that would work and also compress into the same space as a ten round mag spring would.

Consider that a ten round AW mag is not the same size as a five round AICS mag.

while were at it, why not just an AW drum mag.

 

[Forester12]

It looks like the extractor sits in front of the bolt face. If that is the case then in addition to the cone breech a notch will have to be cut for the extractor to fit in like the model 70 or 1903 Springfield. Criterion makes prefits for 03's maybe they'll make one for the CDG.

 

[Blueoval56]

It doesn’t need a notch, it just needs the cone. This has been covered a few times.
I can see how your eye would see that from the rendering but the extractor is flush with the front of the bolt.