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Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

KPK

KPK

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 2, 2009
1,105
194
40
Oklahoma
#1
Ok boys working on a build and wanting input if you think I need some...I've been set on a .284 Winchester setup for 180 berger vlds, but could be swayed, if I should be. I just like the fact that it has good barrel life, can get a lot of 6.5-284 brass and neck up, including lapua, etc. Oh and tons of good .284 bullets.

Surgeon 1086 long action (got it in the safe)
Rock 1:9 twist Medium Palma (26" or 28"?)
McMillan A-3 Sporter (or A3? what's a good color mix?
R&D Long Action Bottom Metal when available after the first of the year, per HateCA
Jewell top safety no bolt release
Probably Nightforce rings and scope...

What do I need to do/change? This will be a tacticalish/more long ranger hunting rifle for deer, yotes, Elk, etc...

Speak up!
 
#2
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I'm planning pretty much the same thing.

Remington 700 SPS long-action donor (30-06)
Rock 8.5" twist medium palma. Was going to do 26", but might go a little longer now
AICS 2.0 for 300 Win Mag
Figured I'd just use the factory trigger
Premier 5-25x w/Seeking base & rings

I was thinking I might try one of the AZ Precision bolt knobs.
 
#4
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

Michael that sounds pretty dang close. I'm assuming you mean you're doing a .284?

Knab, why the A5? I don't want more of a prone stock which is more like the a5 right? The A3 sporter is somewhat of a wider forend hunting stock which may be good for me? What do you think? I'm thinking the molded in is more up my ally I want something I can use the hell out of..
 
#5
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I have a 280 Ackley in 1x9 and 1x8 twist barrels. For the 180 you might consider the 1x8 twist rock for the 180 pills.



You will also want to look at brownells and pick up the H&S Precision magazine feed lip tool. This will be your friend getting the 284 to feed out of the AICS mags. My 280AI fed ok from unmodified ones but would have a round pop out now and then so used this to seat em a bit deeper in the mag and hold em tighter.
 
#6
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 to feed out of the AICS mags</div></div>

It's my understanding the 284 Winchester has the case body size as the 300 Win Mag, so it should "just work".
 
#7
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IFor the 180 you might consider the 1x8 twist rock for the 180 pills.</div></div>

I was told the 1:9" twist does work, but I hedged my bets and went with a 1:8.5" twist.
 
#8
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

Poke, would the Ackley be better? That's actually the other one I've been mulling over? I'll definilty get the tool!

If I did the 1:8 would it be too much for the 168 bergers? Meet in the middle at 1:8.5 like Michael?
 
#9
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm assuming you mean you're doing a .284? </div></div>

Yep. In the process of making up a dummy round for the riflesmith.

I was going to do 26" and RL17, but it's been getting mixed to mostly bad reviews lately so I was starting to think maybe 28" and a different powder.
 
#10
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm assuming you mean you're doing a .284? </div></div>

Yep. In the process of making up a dummy round for the riflesmith.

I was going to do 26" and RL17, but it's been getting mixed to mostly bad reviews lately so I was starting to think maybe 28" and a different powder. </div></div>

Exactly, I've read the same stuff. 4831 with a 28" barrel should give you 2,900fps (from what I've read, not experience), and from what I've read that's all you need with the 180 vlds to do what they do best...and expand on impact. Also Vihtavuori N560 (I think) is suppose to be pretty good powder in it...
 
#11
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poke, would the Ackley be better? That's actually the other one I've been mulling over? I'll definilty get the tool!

If I did the 1:8 would it be too much for the 168 bergers? Meet in the middle at 1:8.5 like Michael? </div></div>

I love my 280AI's. I have owned the 284 and its a decent round but there is something mystical about the 280AI. I chrono'd mine last week and only picked up 2850 off a 168SMK, and 2870 off a 162 Amax. Those are 10 shot averages with a low ES. I could have gotten more out of it but it shoots great there. Used 4831SC on both loads and barrel is 28" Krieger 5R. When I get back from the desert I want to try to get a 3000fps load for it just didnt have the time this round to get that far into it.
 
#13
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I tend to lean toward hunting rifles rather than tactical style rifles, so I'd go with your action, add a #3 contour barrel & Mcmillan classic stock. Though some guys need the tactical "cool look" I guess.

Hey, you said "speak up"
 
#14
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Night poacher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tend to lean toward hunting rifles rather than tactical style rifles, so I'd go with your action, add a #3 contour barrel & Mcmillan classic stock. Though some guys need the tactical "cool look" I guess.

Hey, you said "speak up" </div></div>

Glad you did! I am just kind of thinking the this is a perfect mix...got the A3 sporter/hunting stock look with a decent sized barrel for precision shooting as well. I may have it all wrong! I think the A3 Sporter is edge filled and way light.
 
#15
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

Most rifles shoot the most accurate they can with the bullet close or even touching the lands. You wont know for sure until you try it. The problem is, with the AICS magazines, the max OAL on a 308 that will fit in there is about 2.90" (if that). And many chambers are reamed longer than that. Ideally I would want my chamber to be 2.85" with my bullet (a 155 Lapua Scenar) touching the lands. Or maybe even a bit shorter. Max factory OAL is 2.80" I believe.

The problem is, the gunsmith usually just has one reamer and that is the length you get. And they don't know, with your bullet, how far jammed to the lands is. Besides they don't spec it that way, they spec it some other way (since all bullets are different). A few gunsmiths have shorter reamers and understand the problem. The issue is "throat length" or "freebore" and NOT "headspace". (headspace if fixed and can't be changed, freebore can be customized).

So....try and find a gunsmith that has a short reamer. Or will work out a solution with you. It is a real problem, because he's not going to want to buy a custom reamer just for you. Maybe buying your own reamer is the answer, customized to YOUR bullet. I dunno. I am suprised there is not a solution to this problem.
 
#16
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

This will be built on a long action and I should be able to seat the bullets pretty far out. Not sure on the reamer. I can order a GAP 284 reamer setup for 175 smk's. I'm sure that would be fine with the 180 bergers also...
 
#18
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I was thinking along the same lines as the OP but after some research I decided either the 7mmWSM or 7mmSAUM was the better choice compared to the .284... Im going to settle on the 7mmSAUM as it is a very efficient case.

But considering you have a surgeon LA in the safe, i would say your choice seems good.
 
#20
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KPK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have thought about custom reamer, will PTG make one for me? </div></div>

Dave can do most anything you may want. Best to give him a call, trust his advice.
 
#22
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I've got two 280 AI's and I would NOT do them again, not enough gain IMO over the straight 280. I like the thoughts on your build a lot, and I like your choice of the A3 sporter for sure--very versatile..One thing I would re-think is a Palma contour for a versatile goes hunting a bit rig. I have a close friend that has a 308 Surgeon with the Palma Contour, and he can hump a ton of weight, but constantly talked about not needing such a heavy barrel (20" btw) for his 'all around' rig. He finally bought a Surgeon Laser with a 3 contour Krieger, and that is all he hunts with now--22" in 308.

Both of my 280AI's are 25 1/2" btw, and I get around 2850 with 140's out of them....shooting them has made me realize just how much I love my 270's for hunting applications, they just are so efficient, I have several with 22" barrels that launch 140's at 3000 day in day out--but I digress, my 2cents is to go with the A3 sporter, if you can get it in edge fill great, and to go to a lighter contour barrel, whatever caliber.

Good luck on your build, I do like your components very much!
 
#23
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

There's no point in pushing a .284 to high velocities. If you need 2900+ fps for hunting go with the WSM, SAUM, or 7RM. The value of the .284 is in accurately shooting high-BC bullets at reasonable ranges and reasonable velocities.

If you don't need more than 2800fps the .284 is ideal. Velocities are 100fps less with the 4831s than with RE17, but 4831 is accurate in a .284 at less than 2800fps.

I am currently shooting 180VLD's at 2650fps in my .284 for an extremely accurate competition gun that gets me effortlessly to 1300+ yards.

I needed a bit more than my .308 had to give, but I've never needed more than my .284 can deliver, even for hunting.
 
#24
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

Fish thanks for the reply, I do like the idea of a lighter barrel, but as of today I acquired a 7mm saum Sendero from a dude in OKC. It's got a Jewell trigger, etc. It was posted in the SH classifieds...Now I may be looking at more of a extreme accuracy rifle!

Graham thanks for the info,that's what alot are saying about the long bullets. I've also thought about a 6.5-284 or go up to a 338 edge...
 
#25
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

KPK, a Sendero with a Jewell should be a shooter. If your new build is for a high accuracy rig with some reach, the 6.5x284 is a good choice, I have several, and although I don't compete and shoot 1000's of rounds routinely, I have way over 600 rounds through all of mine, and no barrel issues. Now a 338 edge, that's a sure 'nough THUMPER! Not sure what you wanna shoot with it, but the Edge is enough for anything I can think of! Good luck on whatever you build!
 
#26
Re: Critique my build...hell tear it apart!

I'm thinking the 338's are a little big right now. I've got a 300 rum if I need to kill a beast...I think the 7mm will probably do anything the others will do w/n 1000 and the right shot placement.

Now for anther question. I got the Sendero and it's awesome, but has a hogue overmolded stock on it. Like the 308 aac rifles. I love the look and feel, but it seems too flimsy. The barrel isn't lined up in the channel (touches the left edge). I thought about bedding it, but is it worth it? I don't want to spend a fortune on this gun just get it how I like it. Would a B&C light tactical "hook" be a good choice with aluminum bedding block? Or just bed the hogue?
 
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