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CT elementary school shooting.

Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Bender, I think you should delete that. </div></div>

Yeah, that was pretty graphic.

For those who don't get to see it (it's on the Drudge). It was a pic of the Columbine shooters dead and the shooter from yesterday used it in a post about him doing the same thing "on Friday".
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We should all be doing a few things right now:

1) If you have children, hug them and tell them you love them.

2) Say a prayer for the little souls and their families in CT.

3) Start thinking RIGHT NOW about new ideas to try and prevent this from happening again. </div></div>

Done and done !

However I had a serious point to make on a comment made to the issue of mental health issues !

Anyone that has perhaps seen a therapist for grief counseling , trauma related issues from Afghanistan / Iraq , LE issues could also be lumped into this bunch as well ...

This is going to have to be well thought out before any controls on the seriously mentally ill can be introduced !
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Connecticut has some of the toughest gun-ownership restrictions in the country, according to Brian Malte, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence. Connecticut residents who wish to buy and carry a handgun have to receive a permit, which requires an extensive background check. Assault weapons are banned in the state.

Gun-rights supporters and others said Friday's shootings show the limited reach of restrictive gun-control regimes, such as that in place in Connecticut. "It's a very restrictive state, and this presumably occurred in a gun-free school zone," said Dave Workman, the editor of TheGunMag.com, a magazine owned by the Second Amendment Foundation, a pro gun-rights lobby group. "It creates a situation where the criminals have guns, and everyone else is defenseless."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324296604578179812277699592.html


just something to share about the event....

also like has been said before --- carry at all times --- it would have been a blessing to be there and stop this....though the media wouldn't have said 2 words about it
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: russ10x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my state. (CT) there is a law that prohibits anyone in the medical community from revealing a medical condition to anyone else unless it is another medical practicioner involved in that person's case. It is called the HIPPA law. There is a fine and or imprisonment for violating this law. I am a paramedic, and I know this law very well. This law prevents law enforcement, and the FBI from getting any information so that any weapon will not be approved to sell to these individuals. This law might have prevented this shooting. This law was also put in place by the same administration that enacted the first AWB. When they change this law, it will be for the better. A note. A gun store in a neighboring city denied a sale to this kid on Tuesday. Again, common sense must prevail </div></div>

The HIPAA laws are Federal and not just in CT. There are circumstances where disemination of information is allowed. I would suggest you review the HIPAA regulations because I don't think you know them as well as you think. I know my guys know the regulations that directly apply to them but that is about where it ends. I am very familiar with the regulations beyond the prehospital/hospital area due to our record keeping and insurance billing. Here is one segment in regard to reprting to LE.

•Averting a serious threat to health or safety: A covered entity may disclose protected health information if it believes: 1) the disclosure is needed to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of a person or the public, and the recipient is able to lessen the threat; or 2) the disclosure is critical to law enforcement’s ability to identify or apprehend an individual who either appears to have escaped from the custody of law enforcement or made a statement admitting participation in a violent crime.19 A covered entity acting on such a belief is presumed to be acting in good faith. An entity covered by HIPAA may not disclose protected health information based on an individual’s admitted participation in a violent crime if the statement was made either during therapy, counseling or treatment aimed at lessening the individual’s propensity towards violence, or through a request for such therapy, counseling or treatment. The protected health information that may be disclosed under this exception is subject to the same limitations as placed on the exception made for identifying and locating a suspect.20
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Intrepid4576</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Connecticut has some of the toughest gun-ownership restrictions in the country, according to Brian Malte, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence. Connecticut residents who wish to buy and carry a handgun have to receive a permit, which requires an extensive background check. Assault weapons are banned in the state.
</div></div>

The news is saying that the guns were his mom's and she had bought them years ago because she lived alone. I.e. he stole them! So mental heath and all the other gun control horseshit we're hearing is irrelevant because the guns were legally owned by his mom.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do most schools still not have some form of armed security either private or LE? Dont our children deserve protection too? Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>

+1,000,000.00

Its because in Washington its business as usual, same broke system with new programs (homeland security)to defraud the public with. Try pumping half that money into local police departments with clauses on what the money could be spent for. You'd see officers at every school and all over the place on walking beats if needed. You'll also see alot less stories about school, mall, church active shooters. Washington would also have a lot less money to fly their drones to watch U.S. citizens.

Active shooters want to a place that will provide the highest body count with the least resistance. The want fast killing. Stop making new laws. Get rid of old laws. Enforce the current laws, enforce the death penalty, enforce the constitution and allow people their constitutional right to bear arms unrestricted.

In this country we have more gun laws than any other country I can think of. I carry to protect. Protect me, my family, your family, fellow citizens. I am a sheepdog. We need more sheepdogs in politics and no more felons.

One last comment, I work as a patrol officer in a city of approx 300,000+ we have around 60 patrol officers (which includes swat)working at any given time. That means there is 1 officer to every 5,000 people. Up until the 90's that ratio was 1 officer to approximately 1,000(or less) citizens. So to clarify up until the late 1980's 1-1,000, now its 1-5,000 and its getting worse with the recession.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: russ10x</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A note. A gun store in a neighboring city denied a sale to this kid on Tuesday. Again, common sense must prevail</div></div>
This is a HUGELY pertinent point, and needs to be stressed to everyone, don't you think? There IS a system in place, and in this incidence, the system worked.

When someone CHOOSES to no longer follow the system, then all rules are exempt. The question is, how does one prevent/prepare for, that?

That is the point which should be stressed, and shouted from the rooftops. No?
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: graywolf.260</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>

Careful what you wish for... </div></div>

Yes. It's a fucked up situation. I don't want armed guards in my kids elementary school. This is heresy to some here but I personally would be willing to go through more strict controls to buy guns if it would keep some number of insane individuals from buying guns and things like this from happening. The problem is what would be effective and reasonable controls, and who would decide and how? </div></div>

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Ben Franklin
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Like all of you here, my heart and prayers go out to the victims and families of this tragic event. I cannot imagine this happening to my son. He is 23 and I hugged him more today than I normally do. I was at the church this morning handing out toys for the needy and in the middle of this I stopped to think about this tragedy for a long time.

Being a gun owner brings about a responsibility, we all know that. Like it was mentioned in postings above, we will never know the real reasons and what was going on in his head to do such a thing. Being a religious man, I can tell you right now he is not in a good place, very deserving.

As I went into my gun closet today I looked at all of these rifles and handguns and for the first time in 45 years of shooting I paused and thought for a long time. I really did. My son who is majoring on psychology and does not go to the range with me as much as he used to asked me why I needed all of these guns. We got into a heated discussion about this and of course he did not like my answer...

We need to keep focused on the families that lost these little Saints and what they are going through now, in the middle of this holiday season.

Like the members here we are all law abiding people and want to keep our family safe. This man was a coward, the worst kind you can be and like a member said above, we all wish he would have ate a bullet before he left the house.

God Bless and lets all pray tonight

77
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: russ10x</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A note. A gun store in a neighboring city denied a sale to this kid on Tuesday. Again, common sense must prevail</div></div>
This is a HUGELY pertinent point, and needs to be stressed to everyone, don't you think? There IS a system in place, and in this incidence, the system worked.

When someone CHOOSES to no longer follow the system, then all rules are exempt. The question is, how does one prevent/prepare for, that?

That is the point which should be stressed, and shouted from the rooftops. No?</div></div>

Agreed, there is no preparation or defense against insanity not IMO at least.

Part of the problem with these things is the media blowing it up and giving these bastards the recognition they want. Rather than being some depressed nobody that offed himself at his house, he'll be remembered as a monster. Hell just saw on the news another kid was plotting to murder his classmates in another massacre.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7EZCK-QtBY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UhO0Pul_FcE


http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/12/14/t...wn-connecticut/


http://sgtreport.com/2012/12/a-startling-fact-gigantic-coincidence-about-fridays-mass-shooting/


Aztraderman
December 15, 2012 at 10:35 am · Reply

""It is very interesting that this is listed as the most disasterous killing of children in the US History. Have we forgotten Sand Creek Massacer in Colo in the 1800&#8242;s or Wounded Knee in the Dakotas????? I guess if it isn’t a bunch of White school children in Suburbia it doesnt count as US history. Tell that to a Native American. If you think you can trust your Govt, just ask a Cherokee, Sioux, Black Foot, Apache or Navajo. What do you think their answer will be?????????"" --- Random poster on another board


just some different perspectives to take in while churning threw all of this crazy..........
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

LongArm...we here in a small town in Mississippi...during the WWII we were a major railroad hub. Seven different lines ran through this town, along with their transports...hundreds of thousands of military, major arms movements, hoboes, gypsies, beggers of all discription. We had almost no crime. None. No murders, nor violence as we see now. We had TWELVE police officers. The town itself is about the same population as then. Now we have over 135 officers, 130 odd patrol cars, the murder rate and other crime rates are up. What has changed? Society. If people exhibited antisocial behavior...they went to the pokey, and if criminal, they went to Parchman Prison. Nobody wanted to go there. You had to work. If insane or tended to be so, you went to the State Mental Hospital. Now, there is no work there at the prison. They have mostly closed the Mental Hospital in favor of "home based therapy". Until this changes, NO remedial work will help. You need to identify dangerous people and isolate them from the population. Grossman's article exercept about securing the schools, etc., is on target. JMHO
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

An insane asylum is a great idea until someone's definition of insane is you.... You think gun toting "book of morals" thumpers aren't considered insane by many?
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

So this asshole goes in and shoots everybody with an "assault rifle", then puts it back in his car... then goes back in and kills himself???

I think they're lying about which guns he actually used. IMO
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.


A simple metal detector at entrances to the campus.

Why is that so difficult to have been, thus far, impossible?
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A simple metal detector at entrances to the campus.

Why is that so difficult to have been, thus far, impossible? </div></div>

He didn't even use a door... They were locked, he broke through a window!

A security guard manning a metal detector would just be the first one to get shot.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A simple metal detector at entrances to the campus.

Why is that so difficult to have been, thus far, impossible? </div></div>

Idiot
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Metal detectors or gates, someone intent on doing what they are doing will just drive through the damn things.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

To paraphrase the Clinton campaign back in 92, "It's the Maniacs, Stupid!"

This shit didn't happen 100 years ago when there were plenty of Winchester and Marlin lever guns and perfectly functional revolvers in the hands millions of people. And many of us are fully aware of how fast these weapons can be fired, accurately and then reloaded. It's a question of degrees only. Certainly the auto pistol is faster to reload as is the box magazine fed rifle. But almost none of the assholes doing the mass shootings are competent with the weapons they use and it is only the lack of any resistance at all that allows them to be as effective as they have been.

What was different is too numerous to tally here but prominent among the differences was a profound lack of a lust for notoriety and the wholesale nihlism extant in our society today.

Why is murdering innocents so prevalent a desire among so many over the last 20 years or so? That is the question to be addressed, not the tools employed by the murderers.

In the 70s sitcom "All in the Family", Archie Bunker, when queried by daughter Gloria about the people killed by guns(40 years ago!) Archie responded, "Would it make you feel better if they was getting pushed out of windows?"

It's the maniacs, Stupid!

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I had crafted a comment, but have elected instead to delete it.

It was cynical and inappropriate to the overall appropriate tone of sadness our Nation is currently experiencing.

The events will play out just as surely without my brand of logic as they would with; and right now, I'm thinking just a bit too negatively to be posting my views on this on a public forum.

Greg
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A simple metal detector at entrances to the campus.

Why is that so difficult to have been, thus far, impossible?</div></div>

What is this supposed to do other than guarantee that no teacher is armed? There is one thing and one thing only that stops an active shooter on scene...another active shooter. It is why cops carry guns.

If my wife was a teacher, she would be carrying everyday or find another job. Schools and other "gun-free zones" now have a great big target on them. Aircraft used to be gun free zones too...now we have armed pilots and air marshals. Gun free zones might as well be called victim zones, because the people there are safe only at the mercy of the deranged. After every one of this incidents you read about the bravery of some of the teachers, the man at VT who held the class door shut even as he was taking rounds through it so his kids could escape a window...the teacher here who hid her kids in closets and then faced the gunman when he came in, etc.

If these people had the intestinal fortitude to do these things, would they also have engaged the gunman with a weapon were they allowed to carry?

No doubt there is something wrong with a society that requires metal detectors or armed pilots or armed teachers. Nevertheless, we must deal with the facts on the ground as they are and not how we wish them to be.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

as bad as these killing sprees are, i fear the anti gun lobby is going to exploit this shit.as if they pray for that shit to happen and the day after; while pretending to cry; stand ready to call for stricter gun laws.
it happened in my country, it happened in germany and england.
dear americans dont let your constitutional rights get degraded by things like this.
i hope you manage to keep your rights despite such heinous things happening from time to time.
if i was american i would go out and buy some high powered guns right now,
and make those teachers carry.... for crist sake
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

KYjelly,

regrettably, there is no absolutely affective, single solution, but gates and metal detectors deter. For example, which some need a lot of, an angry dog in the enclosure of a salvage yard deters trespassing. During my brief domicile in New Orleans my home was burglarized while I was away (as distinguished from while I was there), and the homes having bars on the windows were avoided, but the ones without were chosen to burglarize. Is this hard?

We cannot stop misconduct like Joe-in-Texas, but some of it can be deterred.

Incarceration is not intended to stop misconduct, only deter it.

Participate in the solution. Help, not hinder. Construct, not destruct.

We will never know all the facts, but one report was that the Principal buzzed him in because he was known on the small campus.

Look, all the security measures in the world will not cure all the problems. The only real answer is to create positive energy through a practice of conscious contact with a God of your understanding through prayer and meditation, change what we can, and accept what we cannot, meanwhile have the good sense and discernment to know the difference. Its not just a cute adage, its a practice - a process.

Greg: Thank you for your post. You are a teacher, exercising discipline and wisdom. Thank you for teaching the rest of us. Peace be with you.

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Yes Casey, security measures deter. What better security measure and deterrent is there than armed adults exercising their right to defend themselves and their students?

Do you support teachers being able to arm themselves? Why or why not?

I want to stop the next attack. There will be another. Tell me how you stop a bad man on the scene with a gun without a good man on scene with a gun.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Brothers, we all know that this knee jerk reaction of " Let's ban all assault weapons , hi-cap mags" IS NOT!!!! the appropriate action. The sad fact is that lunatics and deranged individuals ALWAYS pick unarmed, soft targets where they know they can carry out their perverted ,sick and demented plans . The truth is take a look at Israel where the majority of citizens are armed at ALL times! If one teacher or school employee had a licensed CCW weapon this situation could have been avoided or at the minimum the loss would have been far ,far less.I know this is the MOST reprehensible, vile act of lunacy imaginable, but the fact is that the states and cities with the most restrictive gun laws have some of the highest incidences of gun crimes. As a Class ll and Class lll and FFL Dealer I know MY main responsibility is to make sure MY inventory and personal weapons are secured away ,locked in vaults and safes out of access to any one other than myself . Blaming an inanimate object such as an "assault weapon, pistol or dreaded hi-cap magazine is far ,far from being the answer. Let's not do something out of reaction to a demonic ,sick incident that will be regretted for generations to come!! We don't jump up and down screaming to ban Chevrolet's, Ford's or what ever brand of automobile some deranged drunk driver happened to be driving when they wiped out an innocent family. Let us as responsible gun owners and dealers think matters through thoroughly and with clear heads not in the heat of the moment. FIRST and FOREMOST MAY GOD COMFORT and CONSOLE the FAMILIES DURING THIS TIME OF APPREHENSIBLE LOSS and MISERY.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

But wait....wait!! I'd like to ask this question:

What about the near 50 MILLION unborns we've aborted??? For a nation and a world so upset about this shooting tragedy of little innocents.....aren't these 50 MILLION kids that were slaughtered a tragedy and innocents also?? Or are they just something that can be put out of mind because we never saw them....as the cute little boys and girls that could have been were not a pair of surgical scissors driven into the base of some their skulls as done in partial birth abortions???

We're a nation of FRIGGIN NUTS.....no question about it! Millions of $$$$ are taken up for the care of dogs and cats and in a helluva lot of instances we take better care of four legged animals than we do our children!! I'm never amazed at the degree of stupidity that exists in this country!!
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

mad.gif
SHOOTING LIL KIDS AND TEACHERS???!!! what a punk like to see you try this crap in a police staion see what happens, damn shame then to kill his self? again what a punk damn news medias at fault as well they cover this crap way too much making OTHER NUTZ think i too can be famous heart is out to all the families over there loss, make sme very pissed off and sad heaven got ALOT OF LIL ANGLES still sucks
mad.gif
if i was a teacher id have a weapon in my room somewhere in cases like this not to have armed police or at least let teachers aryy is crazy this is a evil world were in today
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I guess it really doesn't matter, but MSN is now claiming all victims were shot with a high powered rifle. Saturday it was a glock and sig pistols. Which is it?
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KYjelly,

regrettably, there is no absolutely affective, single solution, but gates and metal detectors deter. For example, which some need a lot of, an angry dog in the enclosure of a salvage yard deters trespassing. During my brief domicile in New Orleans my home was burglarized while I was away (as distinguished from while I was there), and the homes having bars on the windows were avoided, but the ones without were chosen to burglarize. Is this hard?

We cannot stop misconduct like Joe-in-Texas, but some of it can be deterred.

Incarceration is not intended to stop misconduct, only deter it.

Participate in the solution. Help, not hinder. Construct, not destruct.

We will never know all the facts, but one report was that the Principal buzzed him in because he was known on the small campus.

Look, all the security measures in the world will not cure all the problems. The only real answer is to create positive energy through a practice of conscious contact with a God of your understanding through prayer and meditation, change what we can, and accept what we cannot, meanwhile have the good sense and discernment to know the difference. Its not just a cute adage, its a practice - a process.

Greg: Thank you for your post. You are a teacher, exercising discipline and wisdom. Thank you for teaching the rest of us. Peace be with you.

</div></div>
As your example indicates, the thieves moved on to softer targets, than those homes with bars. The intent was NOT to make a mark on a certain target, it was a random burglary. Was it the bars on the windows, or was it the fact that you were not present, to confront the burglars? In either case you presented a soft target.

The difference here is, the intent WAS to make a school a target. This from Tampa Bay news "What we know is he shot his way into the building. He was not buzzed in," Malloy said. "He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building."

If you think that metal detectors and a gate will "deter" someone with intent to shoot up a still very soft target, you've got to be kidding. It strikes me the same a gun legislation, in reality it will do very little, but it makes people feel better.

 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

The doors to the school were locked. The shooter was not let in. The shooter forced his way in.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMulhern</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But wait....wait!! I'd like to ask this question:

What about the near 50 MILLION unborns we've aborted??? For a nation and a world so upset about this shooting tragedy of little innocents.....aren't these 50 MILLION kids that were slaughtered a tragedy and innocents also?? Or are they just something that can be put out of mind because we never saw them....as the cute little boys and girls that could have been were not a pair of surgical scissors driven into the base of some their skulls as done in partial birth abortions???

We're a nation of FRIGGIN NUTS.....no question about it! Millions of $$$$ are taken up for the care of dogs and cats and in a helluva lot of instances we take better care of four legged animals than we do our children!! I'm never amazed at the degree of stupidity that exists in this country!! </div></div>

An <span style="font-weight: bold">"inconvenient truth", </span>if ever there was one.

Monday, 17 December 2013, MARK MY WORDS, there will be another mass murder of moroe than <span style="color: #FF0000">3000</span> kids who have, like the 20 at Sandy Hook, not yet reached second grade. Only difference is that they get their oxygen through umbilical cords instead of their noses.

Oh, and it'll happen again on Tuesday. And Wednesday. And...
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Lets not forget the countless thousands that are killed in car accidents everyday but you don't see anyone freaking out or wiping away fake tears about that.

Gun grabbing is about control not saving lives.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets not forget the countless thousands that are killed in car accidents everyday but you don't see anyone freaking out or wiping away fake tears about that.

Gun grabbing is about control not saving lives. </div></div>

The fake tears were a nice touch, we truly are screwed.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Maybe if someone was armed at that school, fewer people would be dead. In our school district in South Carolina, schools are assigned an SRO(school resource officer) who is a fully trained
County police officer with special training for duty in schools.
A few years ago a student decided to stab and kill the SRO.
The officer tried to subdue the student without deadly force, but the officer was stabbed 9 times and the student tried to grab the SRO's weapon. That lead to the young mans death, but no other staff or students were injured.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Firstly condolences to people hurt by this nutcase...

Secondly isn't it rather sad that media would spin and gorge on misery of random people (side effect of this being another crazed fuck somewhere will beat into his brain that wasting kids is a good way to go from noone to someone and have his few days on national TV) however in the case of preplanned, thought out political attack on youth camp of certain political party went vastly ignored with all the media choosing to ignore the perpetrator and his reasons for killing. Rhetorical questions to you isn't this rather odd that media would be all over the place when clear nutcase looses it and when someone actually does it with a real agenda it goes mostly ignored? Remember initial media coverage of the incident and when it came out the attack was politically and racially motivated everything went quiet?

Not a rhetorical question. Isn't it a high time we as people begin to start taking media and politicians accountable for their actions? It's not guns who are the problem its general lack of morals, values and honesty erosion of those vastly supported by politicians, corporations, famous people/idols and media.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aur0ra145</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a coward. I hope all the kids are okay.

Also, this happened in China today. "China School Attack: Knife-Wielding Man Injures 22 Kids, 1 Adult Outside Primary School "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/china-school-attack_n_2298430.html </div></div>


Just goes to show that guns aren't the problem no matter what gun laws they try to enforce . They will be some fuck up out there that ruins it for every one with a knife guns etc. shit he could have drove his car through the building or burned it down. Stupid things and stupid people can not be fixed no matter what law you put in place. My prayers are for the family's I could not even come close to guess the pain they are in.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

WTF !!!
More head cases at it. Someone called a bomb threat into a church in Sandy Hook,a mall parking lot shooting in 'CA', a hospital in 'AL', and a 18yr old guy in 'OK' who wanted to lure classmates into the gym and shot them.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I wish there was some way the shooting community could reach out and just show that we're not bad people and our guns are just tools of our hobby.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

Two helpful suggestions:

<span style="color: #3333FF">Tough and trained Hide members, volunteer your time to stand Sentinel at the entrances of your local school. Present your credentials to the School Board. Some will take you up on your gratuitous offer.

Turn off the news. Nuts do this stuff for attention. Programming will stop showing this junk if we don't watch. Can you do it?</span>
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I am grateful for the 'teacher' comment, but that's not quite where I'm coming from.

I am also, and moreso, a Marine Veteran with combat experience; and I am therefore adamant that the horrors and hardships that I have witnessed while there should never have to become facts of of life for our small children.

But they have.

I weigh rights vs children, and I must admit that we have some hard thinking and hard choices to make, because the President is right on the one score. This cannot continue.

I do not believe that isolating responsible owners and shooters or depicting them as contributors to the negative side of this problem we have is going to help alleviate the horror. They do not fit the stereotypes and characterizations that strive to paint them in an evil shade. Responsible gun owners and their advocates are not the authors of this problem, nor do they callously and jealously cling to their guns in selfish defiance of those who would resolve it. They, we, have just as much a vested interest in finding an equitable solution as any other participant in the coming debates.

I do not believe that freedoms in this area must be sacrificed for the sake of safety. If what we have tried to do to make our world a safer place that includes private firearms ownership has failed, then we need to try still harder. For history clearly shows us that where private firearms ownership is preempted, far worse atrocities have followed close on that preemption's heels. Nobody in their right minds can believe the task is easy, but it must be achieved; the alternative is certain, and its name is "Tyranny". Like it or not, those are the choices that history clearly demonstrates with implacable impartiality.

People really need to take heed that since 1968, we have followed the legislative pathway of curtailing freedom in the interest of public safety.t. We have tried altering our society in this interest, and for better or worse, this deliberate alteration is just as much a signal contributor in the problem we have today as any other argument on either side.

If more would have worked or could work, we should have been seeing <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> trend toward remediation by now. To my own eyes, none appears; quite the opposite in plain fact. When others see one, I suspect they could be of the same distinction as the folks who complimented the Emperor on his new attire.

This is no longer a matter for the haggling arena of public politics. I think that politicians who insist otherwise will be met with public outrage, and rightly so. What we have now is in no small way the result of their political haggling. They have failed; that approach does not work. We thank them for their zealous efforts, but they have had ample opportunity and they have failed. Failed.

The political arena has had its chance, and the politicians need to step aside, out of the way of the people with their feet on the actual ground, so they can untie their hands and solve this problem in the light of good conscience and human goodness. What that good conscience should be is not a matter for political debate. What that common goodness should be can never be a political issue.

Likewise, freedom's champions are little better off where righteous insistence on freedom at any cost prevails. There are some costs that are too great to bear. If you doubt me, ask your own parents, or your children.

Where freedom is concerned, all give some, some give all and right now that includes our own small ones. That can never be right. Surely we need to soften our hearts and listen..., at least listen...

We need to get to another place, where this horror is not a frequent visitor. None of us can complete that journey without sacrifice. When children are dying, every one of us is at a loss. Every one of us can afford our own dearly heartfelt contribution to an equitable solution.

I am onboard this train wreck for the duration. I <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> take part in its solution. So must we all.

Greg
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

The term discussion keeps arising from our leadership; there will be no discussion on what should be done about violence in our society. The government is swinging for the fence for firearm regulations using this latest shooting before the peoples mind moves on. There will be push back on whatever regulation is presented and they know that, so they will settle for something similar to the last AWB. However what I believe is going to be between the lines here are two things we all need to pay close attention to.

First: the government wants and needs money there will be a stamp tax or fee for legal ownership of firearms in this country. The SCOUS so much as told (o)bama yes you can tax anything, from his healthcare fine that turned into a tax.

Second: The other move that scares me more would be that the government would consider grading every citizen’s mental health outside of viewing it within a criminal record as it is done already. Where would that stop? Obamacare already is over reaching, with this they could deny anything with a grade of their mental health of you! And this firearms tax or fee would be sold to us as a way of paying for a new mental health grading system.

Greg makes a good point:
“For history clearly shows us that where private firearms ownership is preempted, far worse atrocities have followed close on that preemption's heels.”

And what I would ask is what did the British march on Lexington and Concord for? It was not for corn, grain and oats!
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

A tighter gun control is what the plan is. How is this going to solve anything? If someone wants a gun bad enough they will get it. All they have to do is take a trip to the hood and pick one up for pennies on the dollar.

Informing gun owners to be responsible in securing their guns at home and not leaving them in their vehicle is a step in the right direction. So many guns are stolen in home and vehicle burglaries because some people are careless in how they secure their firearms.

Securing your guns and not letting your kids have the combo to your safe is a must.

God Bless the victims and the families of CT.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Vaq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A tighter gun control is what the plan is. How is this going to solve anything? If someone wants a gun bad enough they will get it. All they have to do is take a trip to the hood and pick one up for pennies on the dollar.

Informing gun owners to be responsible in securing their guns at home and not leaving them in their vehicle is a step in the right direction. So many guns are stolen in home and vehicle burglaries because some people are careless in how they secure their firearms.

Securing your guns and not letting your kids have the combo to your safe is a must.

God Bless the victims and the families of CT. </div></div>

As I've said before, I live in Newtown. I've lived here my entire life, all 28 years of it.

I knew some of the victims, personally...Even went to the same bar as the shooter's mother...Drank with their parents...It's a tragedy beyond words.

As a gun owner and someone on scene, I have mixed emotions.

#1, the amount of misinformation the media is spreading, is absolutely ridiculous...In fact, I heard this morning this incident will become a college 101 course on what NOT TO DO. That's actually how bad it is.

#2, The assault rifle didn't harm as many individuals as the pistols, did..I'm not going to go into detail here but, calling for an AR Ban because of this incident is beyond foolish, it wasn't the AR that took the most lives.

#3, She (the mother) took Adam shooting, he knew how to handle a rifle, he was an enthusiast but, because of his "history" could not own a rifle, IN FACT, the system did it's job because he was denied for a rifle just last week...Another coincidence, we shop at the same gun store.

In my OPINION, he could have and would've found a weapon, anywhere. He could have gone to Danbury, driven to NYC, driven to Hartford...If someone wants a weapon badly enough in this area there are outlets in which to immediately procure a weapon. This was a situation where the mother should have had the guns in a private safe that he did NOT have access to.

I don't see a need for an AR ban or more gun control in this country...I see a need to individual gun owners to become more responsible and keep their weapons locked down at all times.

I've given my condolences to the families involved...However, there's no need to spread misinformation and promote fearmongering which is what the media is currently doing...We are generally, an intelligent community...Well, as gun owners, let's get a little smarter and take that extra step to lock down our gear...Don't give them a reason to take it away.
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.


<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Pasted below from the New York Times are what seem to be the prevailing arguments of yesterday. These comments suggest the direction of the impending debate. We need to know this. </span> </span>


“No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society,” he said. “But that can’t be an excuse for inaction.” He added that “in the coming weeks I’ll use whatever power this office holds” in an effort “aimed at preventing more tragedies like this.”

“Because what choice do we have?” he added. “We can’t accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we’re powerless in the face of such carnage? That the politics are too hard? Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?” -<span style="text-decoration: underline">The President.</span>

“These events are happening more frequently,” <span style="text-decoration: underline">Senator Joseph I. Lieberman</span>, the independent from Connecticut, said here before the service began, “and I worry that if we don’t take a thoughtful look at them, we’re going to lose the pain, the hurt and the anger that we have now.”

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Governor Malloy</span> said on the CBS program “Face the Nation” that when someone can burst into a building with “clips of up to 30 rounds on a weapon that can almost instantaneously fire those, you have to start to question whether assault weapons should be allowed to be distributed the way they are in the United States.”

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Mr. Bloomberg</span> added that it was no longer enough that Mr. Obama shared his position on banning assault weapons. “The president has to translate those views into action,” he said. “His job is not just to be well-meaning. His job is to perform and to protect the American public.”

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Robert A. Levy</span>, chairman of the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute and one of the organizers behind a Supreme Court case that in 2008 enshrined a Second Amendment right for individuals to own guns, said Sunday that with more than 250 million guns already in circulation in the United States, restrictions on new weapons would make little difference. He said by e-mail that tough gun laws did not stop a mass shooting in Norway or regular violence in places like the District of Columbia.

“I’m skeptical about the efficacy of gun regulations imposed across the board — almost exclusively on persons who are not part of the problem,” he said. “To reduce the risk of multivictim violence, we would be better advised to focus on early detection and treatment of mental illness. An early detection regime might indeed be the basis for selective gun access restrictions that even the N.R.A. would support.”

He concluded with biblical references and said the town reminds Americans of what should really matter. “Let the little children come to me, Jesus said, and do not hinder them,” <span style="text-decoration: underline">Mr. Obama</span> said. “For such belongs to the kingdom of Heaven.”

He then slowly read the names of the children who were killed on Friday as some in the audience sobbed, a haunting roll call of a class that will never convene again.

“God has called them all home,” the president said. “For those of us who remain, let us find the strength to carry on.”
 
Re: CT elementary school shooting.

I want to hear input on this from our forum members who live offshore and do not have Second Amendment protections for their gun ownership rights.

Are we doing this wrong? How can we do better? Does what you have and don't have make you any better off than we are?

Greg
 
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