Current status on 6 ARC reliability?

[Devildog6.5G]

I was pretty hot for 6ARC until I saw the big shoulder move. 6AR works pretty well with 95gr projectiles. The reality is that 6.5G and 6ARC have some limitations. It's true that you can connect up at 700 yards with either but they are arguably not the right tool for longer ranges. When you start reducing the distance you don't need the heaviest of heavies. I'm still loading 107TMK in 6.5G and they're excellent. Powder choices are wider and I can run them with less pressure. The same is true for 6AR with 95gr VLD or ELDM.

Perhaps I'm all alone on this but I'd rather step up to a 6GT AR308 with 105gr to 115gr Projectiles. The intermediate cartridge compliments low mass BCGS, the weight is still close to an AR15, and optics mount easier. Most of the 6ARC builds I'm seeing are long heavy barrels that will never get carried anyways. Hornady makes brass for all three if that matters.

Yes Very True. I was good to go with my 6mmAR throwing 105's in the high 26-low 2700's unfortunately with the advent of the 6ARC X-Caliber nor Shaw where I always got my barrels are no longer producing 6AR. Glad I still have some life in my last one.
I am more of a Designated Marksman anyway. Since the Corps and going to Damneck to school and being the squads Designated Marksman it is what I have always focused on. I love my gas guns and no longer have the desire to lug around heavy sh@t through the woods nor on the competition field. I have carried a SAW a 60 and a 240 and AR10 sized weapons. I'll leave that to the young guys anymore lol! So I am totally fine competing with my Grendle and ARC's in the DM competitions I enter in! I have a ton of 95gr Classic Hunters and a boat load of the 106 TAP and 106 ATips to last me till I can't shoot or hunt anymore. I can feed all my uppers in 6mm with them and 107, 120 TMK and ELD for the Grendel. So yeah those 20+ pound lead stingers Naaaa lmao! I will shoot 1000 or more for fun, but most of my shooting is 800 and in. Hunting a bit less.

 

[LRRPF52]

I was pretty hot for 6ARC until I saw the big shoulder move. 6AR works pretty well with 95gr projectiles. The reality is that 6.5G and 6ARC have some limitations. It's true that you can connect up at 700 yards with either but they are arguably not the right tool for longer ranges. When you start reducing the distance you don't need the heaviest of heavies. I'm still loading 107TMK in 6.5G and they're excellent. Powder choices are wider and I can run them with less pressure. The same is true for 6AR with 95gr VLD or ELDM.

Perhaps I'm all alone on this but I'd rather step up to a 6GT AR308 with 105gr to 115gr Projectiles. The intermediate cartridge compliments low mass BCGS, the weight is still close to an AR15, and optics mount easier. Most of the 6ARC builds I'm seeing are long heavy barrels that will never get carried anyways. Hornady makes brass for all three if that matters.

My whole thing is wanting something about the size of a Mk.18 suppressed that reaches out with similar or better hit probability than an M24 (that I can spot my own hits with), use it for close quarters like an M4, as well as hunting in the mountains without having to carry a long stick.

I think the GT or x47 cases are about optimum for .473” case head cartridges, but not in 6mm. 25 GT or 25x47L is where it’s at for a short action with 133-135gr for LR, step down to 87gr if you want it to zing on yotes and smaller deer, hogs.

GT won’t fit in the AR-15 though, and I’m enjoying performance from the AR-15 that I never thought possible with 6.5 Grendel. 700yds is kinda Child’s play for me with the 12” Grendel, but I’m usually shooting up at 6300ft ASL as well. I literally take the 12” out of the soft case, maybe blast the 400yd 12” steel, then go right to 780yds. It does seem like my 1st-round hit probability is better with 110gr than 120-123gr, but the 120gr+ just hits harder. 107-110gr is really flat even from the 12”.

I need to mass-produce some 107gr on 8208XBR just for that kind of thing, especially since I’m mainly focusing on my boy getting as much trigger time as possible. He just turned 8 and was punching the 12” steel at 400yds last outing.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

My whole thing is wanting something about the size of a Mk.18 suppressed that reaches out with similar or better hit probability than an M24 (that I can spot my own hits with), use it for close quarters like an M4, as well as hunting in the mountains without having to carry a long stick.

I think the GT or x47 cases are about optimum for .473” case head cartridges, but not in 6mm. 25 GT or 25x47L is where it’s at for a short action with 133-135gr for LR, step down to 87gr if you want it to zing on yotes and smaller deer, hogs.

GT won’t fit in the AR-15 though, and I’m enjoying performance from the AR-15 that I never thought possible with 6.5 Grendel. 700yds is kinda Child’s play for me with the 12” Grendel, but I’m usually shooting up at 6300ft ASL as well. I literally take the 12” out of the soft case, maybe blast the 400yd 12” steel, then go right to 780yds. It does seem like my 1st-round hit probability is better with 110gr than 120-123gr, but the 120gr+ just hits harder. 107-110gr is really flat even from the 12”.

I need to mass-produce some 107gr on 8208XBR just for that kind of thing, especially since I’m mainly focusing on my boy getting as much trigger time as possible. He just turned 8 and was punching the 12” steel at 400yds last outing.

There's give and take to everything. I like Grendel/ARC, it isn't the only tool in the toolbox though.

 

[carbonbased]

My whole thing is wanting something about the size of a Mk.18 suppressed that reaches out with similar or better hit probability than an M24 (that I can spot my own hits with), use it for close quarters like an M4, as well as hunting in the mountains without having to carry a long stick.

I think the GT or x47 cases are about optimum for .473” case head cartridges, but not in 6mm. 25 GT or 25x47L is where it’s at for a short action with 133-135gr for LR, step down to 87gr if you want it to zing on yotes and smaller deer, hogs.

GT won’t fit in the AR-15 though, and I’m enjoying performance from the AR-15 that I never thought possible with 6.5 Grendel. 700yds is kinda Child’s play for me with the 12” Grendel, but I’m usually shooting up at 6300ft ASL as well. I literally take the 12” out of the soft case, maybe blast the 400yd 12” steel, then go right to 780yds. It does seem like my 1st-round hit probability is better with 110gr than 120-123gr, but the 120gr+ just hits harder. 107-110gr is really flat even from the 12”.

I need to mass-produce some 107gr on 8208XBR just for that kind of thing, especially since I’m mainly focusing on my boy getting as much trigger time as possible. He just turned 8 and was punching the 12” steel at 400yds last outing.

Interesting. What magnification are you shooting at? And what kind of MOA accuracy are you getting?

 

[LRRPF52]

Yes Very True. I was good to go with my 6mmAR throwing 105's in the high 26-low 2700's unfortunately with the advent of the 6ARC X-Caliber nor Shaw where I always got my barrels are no longer producing 6AR. Glad I still have some life in my last one.
I am more of a Designated Marksman anyway. Since the Corps and going to Damneck to school and being the squads Designated Marksman it is what I have always focused on. I love my gas guns and no longer have the desire to lug around heavy sh@t through the woods nor on the competition field. I have carried a SAW a 60 and a 240 and AR10 sized weapons. I'll leave that to the young guys anymore lol! So I am totally fine competing with my Grendle and ARC's in the DM competitions I enter in! I have a ton of 95gr Classic Hunters and a boat load of the 106 TAP and 106 ATips to last me till I can't shoot or hunt anymore. I can feed all my uppers in 6mm with them and 107, 120 TMK and ELD for the Grendel. So yeah those 20+ pound lead stingers Naaaa lmao! I will shoot 1000 or more for fun, but most of my shooting is 800 and in. Hunting a bit less.

The thing that really made me feel cheated was when I saw what a short Grendel would do with my first 16” 6.5G. I really initially was just letting my nephews shoot it on steel, but it was weird because they just didn’t miss my little 12” steel popper targets. They looked up at me like this was easy or something, and didn’t understand what all the fuss was I had been talking about regarding long range shooting, the wind, trajectory, etc. I was mainly shooting my .260 Rem gas gun at the time, so I didn’t take the Grendel too seriously.

The more I shot it and saw how easy it was to spot your own hits from something the size of an M4, the more I realized what a waste the M24 and 7.62 gas guns were. I could have had something like this and never had to mess with a bull barrel bolt action M24 with 5rd internal magazine, trying to hump it around with one of the bipod legs kicked out like a handle with the butt wedged in my 2QT cover and rucksack while moving.

Same for LMGs. An LMG in something like 6.5 Grendel would be a God-send for the line. More ammo, no real recoil, watch your first-burst connect, nice sand bag popper, easy on the weapons with lower chamber pressure, blasts through trees at distance like an AK at close range, don’t need crazy large pouches for linked, etc.

That KAC LMG in Grendel would be sick for a SAW gunner, constant recoil, switch between semi and auto.

 

[Dogtown]

Yea its the soviet block version of the M2 50cal. Not fun at all, especially when little midgets in PJ's are willing to hump one up a mountain at 10k feet and a bunch of ammo to ruin your party.

I love that the BII for it includes a mallet for knocking the receiver plate off to disassemble.

 

[LRRPF52]

Interesting. What magnification are you shooting at? And what kind of MOA accuracy are you getting?

Those are the funny things that illustrate it even more.

I’m using a 1-6x24 LPVO with the GRSC reticle on the 12” Grendel, just using holds in the tree. The reticle is meant for 16” .308 spitting 175gr SMK/M118LR at 1000ft elevation.

For 123gr ELD-M, I’m consistently getting MOA, but with the 110gr PPU fodder, I couldn’t get it to shoot under 3” at 100yds from either the 12” Faxon or 17.6” Lilja.

That “trash” PPU 110gr factory ammo is the only one so far where I’ve gone 3-for-3 at 780yds out of the gate, then made a 1st-round at 900yds on a 12” square plate. It wasn’t loud, but dayum if I wasn’t tickled with the performance. I almost wrote the ammo off as close range blaster ammo for assault rifle performance, nothing more. I’m glad I gave it a go at longer distance. Will be ordering more when it comes in again.

With 120gr Federal or 123gr ELD-M, I usually have an initial register just off the edge of 780yd steel bison you see above, then 2nd-round connect quickly and subsequent impacts with relative ease. If you look right below it, you see the 400yd plate, which is boring to shoot for me at least. The 900yd is off to the right. They move the steel around a lot there at this range complex though, so plates will be in different locations each time you show up, especially after NRL matches. I love that range. Nothing else like it that I’ve seen. This is only one of the many LR ranges they have there. The cowboy town is right to the left of this shooting position, a huge facility.

Here’s the 1000yd and 600yd flat ranges about a mile West of Buffalo Canyon:

Here’s another range we call Over the Edge, with about a 150˚ range fan in natural terrain overlooking the canyon/gulley:

It’s basically a shooting paradise. I like getting down there once a month if I can schedule it.

 

[carbonbased]

Pretty neat you can do that with a 12” AR!

But since I don’t shoot steel much due to nowhere to do it and I shoot small rodents, I am curious about how well your system can shoot.

Have you ever put a higher mag scope on the gun (20-25x) and slowly shot prone or off the bench to see what the system is ultimately capable of on paper (at whatever distance)?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but one moa at 100yds with a 6x is pretty darn good. For me, anyway.

I’m just trying to get an idea if such a setup is for me.

 

[Devildog6.5G]

The thing that really made me feel cheated was when I saw what a short Grendel would do with my first 16” 6.5G. I really initially was just letting my nephews shoot it on steel, but it was weird because they just didn’t miss my little 12” steel popper targets. They looked up at me like this was easy or something, and didn’t understand what all the fuss was I had been talking about regarding long range shooting, the wind, trajectory, etc. I was mainly shooting my .260 Rem gas gun at the time, so I didn’t take the Grendel too seriously.

The more I shot it and saw how easy it was to spot your own hits from something the size of an M4, the more I realized what a waste the M24 and 7.62 gas guns were. I could have had something like this and never had to mess with a bull barrel bolt action M24 with 5rd internal magazine, trying to hump it around with one of the bipod legs kicked out like a handle with the butt wedged in my 2QT cover and rucksack while moving.

Same for LMGs. An LMG in something like 6.5 Grendel would be a God-send for the line. More ammo, no real recoil, watch your first-burst connect, nice sand bag popper, easy on the weapons with lower chamber pressure, blasts through trees at distance like an AK at close range, don’t need crazy large pouches for linked, etc.

That KAC LMG in Grendel would be sick for a SAW gunner, constant recoil, switch between semi and auto.

Exactly what I am talking about!! You summed it up better than I Ever could! Was in the same boat with a semi cloned SR25, That's around the time I got my first 18" Grendle then 16". That's when the light bulb came on for me and I wished I had them when I had boots on the ground! Started playing around with the 6 AR around that time as well! Been many years now and I haven't changed my thoughts on them! I am thinking really hard on a 12" Grendel myself. Seems like it will be an even more handy all around rifle.

 

[LRRPF52]

Pretty neat you can do that with a 12” AR!

But since I don’t shoot steel much due to nowhere to do it and I shoot small rodents, I am curious about how well your system can shoot.

Have you ever put a higher mag scope on the gun (20-25x) and slowly shot prone or off the bench to see what the system is ultimately capable of on paper (at whatever distance)?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but one moa at 100yds with a 6x is pretty darn good. For me, anyway.

I’m just trying to get an idea if such a setup is for me.

I started out shooting with a 1-4x24 GRSC LPVO. Those were discontinued Korean models because they broke all the time, and I’ve broken 3 of them I think, I just loved the FOV, reticle, and glass clarity so much on the ones I had that I was willing to risk it. The 1-6x24 is a Japanese and built like a tank. Mine initially had 1-4x, then 1-6x. The other one has NF NX8 1-8x24. Both are suppressed with TBAC Ultra Gen I suppressors, mine an Ultra 5, the other an Ultra 7 (more quiet but longer).

Here are groups from both 12” blasters with different shooters:

I think this was 123gr ELD-M and 123gr SMK hand loads, another Hide member:

123gr ELD-M box ammo:

90gr TNT:

Most of the 100yd work I’ve done for checking accuracy with different loads was with the 1-4x24 GRSC. 90gr TNT was shooting really well, as was 123gr ELD-M. I don’t slow-fire nor do I believe in slow-fire. I tend to group better on a cadence, just because I’ve been shooting for so long and like to keep fundamentals in a fast-paced delivery-on-demand mindset, especially for shooting conditions at distance. I blend sight picture, breathing control, trigger control, and follow-through with a solid Natural Point of Aim position, established and trouble-shot as best as possible to sling through center of the TGT.

I built 2 of the 12” guns with the same barrels from the same batch in a group buy. Both were bedded into the uppers, with uppers that have square faces, checked with my lapping tool. These barrels have an unusually-long shank ahead of the barrel extension flange, and are bit porky, but they shoot. The other one shoots like mine, printing sub-MOA 5 shot with 123gr ELD-M factory an 107gr SMK hand loads on 8208 XBR. For shooting steel, I just want to connect with the center of the plates, not chasing X rings with a CQB-sized blaster.

Gas blocks are bedded as well, as are the tubes to control the gas system from leaking or rattling. I used LaRue MBT-2S triggers in both I think. You could shrink the groups using Bartlein pipes and lighter triggers from Trigger Tech or Geissele, but I’m already seeing far better results than I ever anticipated. I could mount a Hubble telescope to check groups, but don’t see much reason to when I’m either first or second-round connecting on steel at 780-900yds. It’s just fun, and I don’t have to lug or pack a huge rifle case around.

I’m doing a 10.5” Criterion next. Already have everything but the suppressor and optic I want for it, which I’m still waiting on.

 

[LRRPF52]

I have a Vortex Gen III Razor 1-10x I haven’t even mounted yet.

Also looking at the new March 1.5-15x42.

For either a 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC, I really think the newer LPVOs and MPVOs make a lot of sense for a compact blaster with reach-out capability. If you go with a long stick more ideal for flat range belly or bench-riding, you can mount the Hubble, but I’m one of those guys who keeps chasing .50 BMG performance from a .22LR package.

Most are looking at LPVOs from the constraints of 5.56, but not me. It doesn’t even register with me at first that LPVOs are for 5.56, even though I have them on my 5.56 loaner DM carbines. Whenever I see LPVO or MPVO, I’m always thinking if it can be compact and allow better resolution at distance for my Grendels.

That new Vortex 1-10x AMG would be sick for these Grendel-based cartridges with a tree reticle.
I was thinking the March 1-10x24 Shorty for the 10.5” Grendel.

 

[carbonbased]

I have a Vortex Gen III Razor 1-10x I haven’t even mounted yet.

Also looking at the new March 1.5-15x42.

For either a 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC, I really think the newer LPVOs and MPVOs make a lot of sense for a compact blaster with reach-out capability. If you go with a long stick more ideal for flat range belly or bench-riding, you can mount the Hubble, but I’m one of those guys who keeps chasing .50 BMG performance from a .22LR package.

Most are looking at LPVOs from the constraints of 5.56, but not me. It doesn’t even register with me at first that LPVOs are for 5.56, even though I have them on my 5.56 loaner DM carbines. Whenever I see LPVO or MPVO, I’m always thinking if it can be compact and allow better resolution at distance for my Grendels.

That new Vortex 1-10x AMG would be sick for these Grendel-based cartridges with a tree reticle.
I was thinking the March 1-10x24 Shorty for the 10.5” Grendel.

Totally get where you are coming from. Pretty astounding groups using low mag optics…at least this idiot thinks so.

For prairie dogs or Richardson ground squirrels, I need 10-20x just to find those suckers after I’ve already spotted them with 10x or 15x LRF binos. Maybe it’s just my limitation, but the darn things are the color of their surroundings. I tend to shoot at 18-20x and use .204 and 17 Hornet.

Thanks for sharing. Makes me wonder why the mil didn’t use Grendel instead of going to .277 Whatever…I’m sure I‘ve read why, but have forgotten. I’m sure it was a requirement for penetrating a level 27 vest at 1001 yds or something lol.

 

[LRRPF52]

Totally get where you are coming from. Pretty astounding groups using low mag optics…at least this idiot thinks so.

For prairie dogs or Richardson ground squirrels, I need 10-20x just to find those suckers after I’ve already spotted them with 10x or 15x LRF binos. Maybe it’s just my limitation, but the darn things are the color of their surroundings. I tend to shoot at 18-20x and use .204 and 17 Hornet.

Thanks for sharing. Makes me wonder why the mil didn’t use Grendel instead of going to .277 Whatever…I’m sure I‘ve read why, but have forgotten. I’m sure it was a requirement for penetrating a level 27 vest at 1001 yds or something lol.

For P-Dog blasting, I would go with a longer barrel for sure. Sling lighter bullets really fast.

I’m of the mind that Field of View and really clean, high-contrast glass helps locate targets. Once I crank up on magnification, the FOV suffers and only the best of the best glass will still retain good light transmission.

For those thinking a side bar on optics is a departure from the reliability aspect of stuffing a new cartridge in the AR-15, keep in mind that the optic and mount mass will contribute to the overall weight of the system, which does play a pretty significant role in resisting recoil impulse.

If the gun is too light, you can experience a form of “limp-wristing” in rifles and carbines where the receiver will travel along with the carrier and not allow enough rearward carrier movement to fully clear the cartridge stack or spent case from the chamber. I think that’s one problem with the AR-15 sized rifles chambered in .308 Winchester, for example (POF and Ruger SFAR).

Shows up as stovepipe malf or FTFeed.

Because recoil is so low with these Intermediate Cartridges, you just don’t see the limp-wrist effect much. You have to gas the port too large to make it happen on a lightweight self-loader and have a small-framed person shooting it usually.

Factor optics and mounts into the overall rifle/carbine weight as-configured, not bare, for reliability.

 

[45-90]

The 6mm ARC is very reliable and very accurate, in AR 15 platform. 108 gr eldm 30 gr of Leverevolution 2.880" 18" proof barrel 2667 fps 5 shot 1/2" groups .

 

[45-90]

If you just buy an upper in 6mm ARC, like the top group from Areo with BA barrel about $800 and put it on your lower...the groups will probably look like those on the top, about 2.5" at 100 yds....same match ammo, as the bottom, same day. But...a Proof Research SS 18" 7.5 twist barrel with accuracy enhancements added...the first 5 shot group from the 6 ARC Proof barrel was 1/2 moa. Build you own with a quality barrel is a good place to start. I replaced that BA barrel with another SS Proof, and it shoots equally well or slightly better. The 6mm ARC is an excellent rd in the AR 15 platform, absolutely no issues, with excellent accuracy, and I shoot mostly heavy bullets in it 107, 108, 110, 112, & 115 gr. The 58 gr vmax is accurate but it defeats the purpose of the 6mm ARC, IMO.