There's a fair amount of good information on this site regarding bolt gun and AR platform actions/receivers, but I can't find much addressing options for M1As. I've read that most stock NM/UM SAI M1As out-of-the-box just about as good as the M1A platform gets, but what are the reasons for going custom? What are the receiver options? I've read of the SEI debacle going on now, hear the LRBs are well worth the wait, and the Fulton Armory ones are regarded as being lower quality, but readily available. Do SAI's get overhauled/built on by gunsmiths like 700 actions are, or are they just left alone? Who are the good M1A gunsmiths? If there is no list, can we get one started here? What are the general run of services done to them, and what things need to be considered before starting down the road to a custom M1A?
- Thread starter rideHPD
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I don't know about Fulton Armory being lower quality. Perhaps it is because they are cast receivers, but so are SAI. As far as builders, there are a few on M14 forum that are very highly regarded. I don't personally have experience with any of the gunsmith/builders though. I am working on acquiring parts for a build when the funds allow, and will more than likely use a Fulton receiver, Criterion barrel, and LRB bolt. The rest will be GI parts.
As far as I know, SAI receivers are only distributed by a few vendors, and are pricey. Last I checked they were $700.
As far as I know, SAI receivers are only distributed by a few vendors, and are pricey. Last I checked they were $700.
If I were building one, which I would if I had the cash, I would be using a LRB receiver and trying to find the best smith I could on m14 forum. I also think I heard there was once a guy named George that used to build the m14 platform pretty well, he's known better around here as a bolt gun mechanic out of Kansas though! Would be nice if I could send him a little project. If I couldn't find anyone highly regarded I would just have LRB do the whole thing.
I have always wanted to try and dabble with the gas port size and dwell timing and whatnot to get a gun to run the 175 SMK faster without beating itself to death over time. Wish I could find someone to give it a go. I do know one thing though, if your gonna use an optic, get the m25 receiver from LRB instead of dicking with scope mounts on a regular receiver.
I have always wanted to try and dabble with the gas port size and dwell timing and whatnot to get a gun to run the 175 SMK faster without beating itself to death over time. Wish I could find someone to give it a go. I do know one thing though, if your gonna use an optic, get the m25 receiver from LRB instead of dicking with scope mounts on a regular receiver.
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Check out M14Forum. Tons of good information there and some very cool guys always willing to help. I learned a lot there while I had my Scout, which I recently sold. Ask yourself are you looking for a Sub-MOA shooter, going to use optics, going to hunt with it?
As far as accuracy, you are right in the NM rifles are very good out of the box. But with that said you can upgrade a standard M1A and get it shooting MOA or better, but it will cost you some serious $$$. I was fortunate enough to have SEI do my work, and it was a pleasant experience, just took about 4wks. When said and done my Scout was 1.5MOA with surplus ammo, and a little better with match ammo.
LRB, Fulton, SEI (Crazy Horse), and SA NM and Whitefeather are all good guns but you can spend serious $$$ on one. Set a price point for yourself first then look at everything in that range. I suggest trying to find a used one to save yourself even more $$.
PM me if you want more info, Im happy to share what I have learned.
Stay safe
As far as accuracy, you are right in the NM rifles are very good out of the box. But with that said you can upgrade a standard M1A and get it shooting MOA or better, but it will cost you some serious $$$. I was fortunate enough to have SEI do my work, and it was a pleasant experience, just took about 4wks. When said and done my Scout was 1.5MOA with surplus ammo, and a little better with match ammo.
LRB, Fulton, SEI (Crazy Horse), and SA NM and Whitefeather are all good guns but you can spend serious $$$ on one. Set a price point for yourself first then look at everything in that range. I suggest trying to find a used one to save yourself even more $$.
PM me if you want more info, Im happy to share what I have learned.
Stay safe
^^^^ That is absolutely true.
Overall I think it depends on your intended use. If it's just recreational shooting then pick up a base gun or a Loaded and shoot with irons. No waiting around and with a Loaded you'll be under 2 MOA with match ammo, maybe even around 1 MOA if you get a good one and do your part. There's nothing wrong with SAI for that purpose and they have a great warranty. If you're looking to go all-out on a precision-oriented M1A then pick up an M25 receiver and have someone build it up for you.
The biggest attraction to custom builds is selecting your own parts, if desired. USGI parts , barrel weight, profile, material & twist, stock (wood, fiberglass, McMillan, SAGE), bedding, receiver type (forged, regular, lugged, double lug, no lug), etc.
I own four M1a's all Springfield Armory. Two have all usgi parts and are older rifles, one new Super match and a scout that have zero usgi parts but all have the lifetime warranty. Some people put a higher value on usgi parts or forged receivers while others do not.
Springfield has an excellent lifetime warranty if you go Springfield. Fulton and LRB are also excellent rifles.
I own four M1a's all Springfield Armory. Two have all usgi parts and are older rifles, one new Super match and a scout that have zero usgi parts but all have the lifetime warranty. Some people put a higher value on usgi parts or forged receivers while others do not.
Springfield has an excellent lifetime warranty if you go Springfield. Fulton and LRB are also excellent rifles.
Schuster vented or adjustable gas plug.
I have heard of people building off of Polytech receivers arguing the their milled receivers are better than cast ones. I haven't been interested in researching past that. I have a standard SAI that is bedded and it will shoot 1.5 moa all day. For what I need it for that is more than adequate.
I guess I will jump back in to get a little more specific advice. With Ca's imminent potential ban on many things fun, I am in the process of attempting to full out my collection as much as I'd like in the future. Ultimate M1A accuracy is not something I'm dieing for, as I have read on here how expensive that can get with diminishing returns. I was thinking of picking up a NM with the dual purpose of shooting service rifle recreationally at a local range, and with an Aimpoint PRO on an arms 18, a-la Blackhawk Down. Pretty corny, but a friend set his up as such and it's a blast to shoot with either irons or the red dot. Not totally sure if that's a sin to the NM to bolt on a red dot to it. The other rifle I'd been thinking about was an 18" in a Sage chassis, probably with some intermediate glass, not looking for great accuracy with 1 but 1-2 MOA would be fine, something for shooting steel. I've shot these several times and had a blast at midranges with them. Big and heavy, but there's something I've just become very fond of. For this I thought of just getting a Fulton receiver and building it later when I have some more money.
I think that's a reasonable plan. For the first one a NM might be overkill for plinking with an Aimpoint. A Loaded would be plenty, and even a Standard would probably make you happy...you can always re-barrel down the road.
I'm in the same boat as you regarding CA and all I will add is don't delay your decision. Unless the governor vetoes SB 374, the moment it's clear that it will become law, you can forget buying anything for a reasonable price.
I'm in the same boat as you regarding CA and all I will add is don't delay your decision. Unless the governor vetoes SB 374, the moment it's clear that it will become law, you can forget buying anything for a reasonable price.
I have a loaded and it shoots pretty well, it is wood stocked, scoped and I shoot handloads with it using 168s and 175s. Probably a bit heavy for what you are talking about though. If all you want to do is bang away with surplus and an aimpoint the regular standard in a USGI synthetic stock would be fine.
If you just want an evil black blaster rifle with an aimpoint on it you can get a PTR 91 from Atlantic for a thousand bucks and mags are really really cheap.
If you just want an evil black blaster rifle with an aimpoint on it you can get a PTR 91 from Atlantic for a thousand bucks and mags are really really cheap.
I guess I'll ask my next question; what stocks use a rear lug, or won't fit a rear-lugged receiver?
Also I didn't think about this, but does/would Springfield down the road upgrade a standard to a NM? I did want to keep that one SAI.
i've always wanted a LRB but my smith enterprises build is off a springfield. i think i would be hard pressed to put enough rounds through that gun to ever "wear out" the receiver. The rest is all USGI parts, its a full smith build which i know right now doesn't have the best reputation cuz of some forum drama but they have always been absolutely awesome to me and my guys, Ron is SUPER pro-military and loves .mil dudes. I'm not goin to comment on the current drama but i will say my smith built M1a is one of my favorite guns in my safe. Ride when i get home your welcome to come burrow my smith
The receiver either has a rear lug, or not. A super match had the added rear lug and it limits your stock options. A McMillan or oversized walnut stock will work. You need a thicker stock to pocket out to fit the rear lug. The Sage chassis I do not think is compatible with rear lug receivers but I could be mistaken.
The added lug help prolong the bedding life.
Rear lug-
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If you ever are considering going for an "accuracy" M1A build in a heavy NM walnut, bedded McMillan, or similar stock I'd suggesting going with a rear lugged receiver for maximum bedding surface area; the lug, pillar, and torque screw do help to stabilize things and help out in the accuracy department and the added surface area of the lug really prolongs bedding life. (Chasing little tiny groups with an M1A however is a good exercise in frustration & wallet draining...)
Unfortunately some stocks preclude the use of a rear lugged receiver-- not sure which exactly but Sage comes to mind. Stocks like the JAE will fit a rear lugged receiver even though they don't utilize them.
Regarding Fulton, I have both a Ted Brown built LRB M25 and used to have a Fulton Armory peerless grade. The Fulton shot very well for an M1A (a solid 1 MOA rifle) and was built well, I'd have no hesitation buying or recommending another one provided their current quality levels are the same as mine which was built back in 2000. The only reason I sold the Fulton and kept the LRB is when I decided I only needed 1 M1A in the safe the LRB has the built in scope rail and is the more versatile receiver overall so I decided to keep it.
If you're considering using optics on your M1A at any time in the future I'd strongly suggest trying to find an LRB M25 receiver or a completed rifle using an M25 receiver. Only drawback is you mentioned shooting service rifle... depending on how picky your local club is regarding rules the LRB M25 receiver technically isn't legal for service rifle matches thanks to the built in scope mount. At a local level it probably won't be an issue but the possibility for a DQ is there.
As a fellow CA resident, I understand the urgency to round out your collection just in case SB374 isn't vetoed...
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If you're going the custom route, I would buy a Fulton receiver or LRB receiver. Call LRB, a lot of times people get lucky when they call.
Cast or forged will make no difference in a civilian semi auto. If you can afford to put enough down range to test thresholds, buy LRB for the cleanest finish on any M1A receiver.
If you do get lucky when calling LRB, have them build it and save some shipping cash.
Cast or forged will make no difference in a civilian semi auto. If you can afford to put enough down range to test thresholds, buy LRB for the cleanest finish on any M1A receiver.
If you do get lucky when calling LRB, have them build it and save some shipping cash.
If you go rear lugged then figure on a mcmillan stock. You can find them around as take-offs for 350-450 with all the metal if you look hard enough.
I really think you'd be perfectly happy with a standard or scout if you want an M1A to just blast around with.
I really think you'd be perfectly happy with a standard or scout if you want an M1A to just blast around with.
putting a red dot on a NM M1A is against all things in the universe and you be a lightening rod for the rest of your life.
It's interesting and sad how many want the accuracy upgrades on the rifle but don't want to make themselves better shooters and therefore never really need a NM rifle. Pick a lane, either plink or compete, but don't mix the rifles up. Shooting a NM M1A in matches is a very rewarding endeavor, you will be able to shoot any rifle very well after learning to do what it takes to shoot X's at 600 yards with a iron sighted, slung up M1A.
Basically if you pay the extra money for a NM take the plunge and shoot matches, if you don't want to do that just buy a loaded model and don't look back.
I've bought two used gunsmith built rifle with all the goodies, each was less than $2k, which is far better than a new SAI. There are many older Supermatch rifles out there as guys get out of the sport. Try and find one of those and you will be money ahead.
It's interesting and sad how many want the accuracy upgrades on the rifle but don't want to make themselves better shooters and therefore never really need a NM rifle. Pick a lane, either plink or compete, but don't mix the rifles up. Shooting a NM M1A in matches is a very rewarding endeavor, you will be able to shoot any rifle very well after learning to do what it takes to shoot X's at 600 yards with a iron sighted, slung up M1A.
Basically if you pay the extra money for a NM take the plunge and shoot matches, if you don't want to do that just buy a loaded model and don't look back.
I've bought two used gunsmith built rifle with all the goodies, each was less than $2k, which is far better than a new SAI. There are many older Supermatch rifles out there as guys get out of the sport. Try and find one of those and you will be money ahead.
i've always wanted a LRB but my smith enterprises build is off a springfield. i think i would be hard pressed to put enough rounds through that gun to ever "wear out" the receiver. The rest is all USGI parts, its a full smith build which i know right now doesn't have the best reputation cuz of some forum drama but they have always been absolutely awesome to me and my guys, Ron is SUPER pro-military and loves .mil dudes. I'm not goin to comment on the current drama but i will say my smith built M1a is one of my favorite guns in my safe. Ride when i get home your welcome to come burrow my smith
Damage Inc.
That's more or less what my feeling was, I guess I could just get a std rifle then upgrade later if/when I have the time for service rifle.
I'm going to try calling them tomorrow to see if there's anything they might be able to do to help us out in CA. I, unfortunately, don't think I'll be leaving anytime soon.
i've always wanted a LRB but my smith enterprises build is off a springfield. i think i would be hard pressed to put enough rounds through that gun to ever "wear out" the receiver. The rest is all USGI parts, its a full smith build which i know right now doesn't have the best reputation cuz of some forum drama but they have always been absolutely awesome to me and my guys, Ron is SUPER pro-military and loves .mil dudes. I'm not goin to comment on the current drama but i will say my smith built M1a is one of my favorite guns in my safe. Ride when i get home your welcome to come burrow my smith
Man I just never tire of seeing all the stuff you have Joe. I will definitely take you up on that offer. I think I might take the hint this time and build off an SAI receiver and enjoy a rifle now while the rest of my receivers get ancy in my safe. I want to see that HTI if you have it already, those things are really cool.
